Epic isn't planning on making changes to return 'Fortnite' to the App Store

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 40
    FatmanFatman Posts: 513member
    Epic’s stubbornness, and arrogance will hurt them more than help them. They can easily get by without supporting iOS and Mac - but why? It’s an additional revenue stream with minimal effort to support. And pulling this move before an iPhone super cycle is just idiotic. To also not support fortnite cross platform is now hurting their very own customers - now who’s the bad guy? The Customers that have invested in Fortnite with paid upgrades, etc. should initiate a class action suit against Epic - they spent money with an implied promise for platform support - and now without the ability to play against many others, Epic violated an implied agreement and should at least refund their money! 
    Gilliam_Bateswatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 40
    I love the iPhone hardware, but I want to install software of my choosing on the hardware I've purchased.

    The iPhone, iPad (Pro), and Apple TV all have amazing hardware but they lock us in the prison that is the App Store requiring a jail break to freely install anything desired.

    My hope is that they do one of the following:

    • Open up their iOS/tvOS for hardware owners to install their own choice of applications which would be limited to the confines of their security sandbox
    • Offer the option to unlock the bootloader so that it would be possible to install your own choice of operating system.

    These devices aren't cheap, yet Apple plays gatekeeper to all the software and anything they don't agree with gets rejected.

    Security wouldn't need to be weakened either since even with existing methods like code signing or enterprise certificates, apps are still sandboxed and subject to the same restrictions as those from the App Store.

    They wouldn't even have to make it easy, for all I care they could pop up a message on install saying WARNING: This software has not been verified by Apple, it may be able to steal all your data, proceed with extreme caution for all I care as long as the option was provided.

    I do not think this would be the end of the App Store since even on Android Epic had tried direct distribution for Fortnite and didn't like the outcome, so they decided to release it on the Google Play store.

    If Epic of all developers couldn't make it outside of the Play Store, what makes you think other developers would? Apps like Netflix already get along just fine by not offering IAP for their subscriptions and just function as a "reader" app.
    edited August 2020
  • Reply 23 of 40
    What I don’t see anywhere in articles or stories about the court hearing for the TRO. Is whether people who already have Fortnite  on their phone And therefore can choose to buy using Apple or Epic (at a discount) systems. 
    1. Will these be rendered inoperable by Apple ( on the 28th Aug) ?
    2. Did the court realise that this was an ongoing situation ( as far as Apple is concerned)?
    3. Or is this exactly what the TRO hearing was about and the court has said Apple are allowed to nuke the Fortnite  dev account ( and therefore all existing downloads) but not the Unreal-Engine dev account?
    edited August 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 40
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,922member
    Apple should post in the app stories: if you’re looking for Fortnite, it’s not available due to rule breaking by Epic. Say you stole $10 from your parents and were caught. You are sent to your room. Do you complain to your friends that your parents are dictators or do you return the money and apologize? Guess what Epic is doing. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 40
    Beats said:
    Apple is not going to gain any additional customers with this.
    Seriously? A silly kids game is not going ruin the reputation of Apple. Epic needs Apple not the other way around. Soon some other game fad will command children’s attention away from Fortnite. I feel safer buying apps from the Apple App Store than I ever did from the Google Play Store, it’s like the Wild West over there! 

    I can't believe I recommended Apple TV run Fortnite to get the ball rolling for Apple TV gaming. What a scum company.

    The problem is, Apple didn't take gaming seriously and now that one of their biggest games is leaving the App Store it's biting them in the ass. Had Apple had AAA first party exclusives ready, if Apple Arcade was better than Fortnite and had great competitive online games like I've been suggesting for a year, then very little gamers would care. Non-gamers won't notice a difference(duh) but this WILL affect gamers whether you're a Fortnite fan or not.
    Dude THIS WON’T affect gamers at all. 

    True “GAMERS” don’t play on an iPhone or Galaxy or LG. 

    They play on CONSOLES with Keyboards, Lights, Microphones, Headphones etc..

    if you play on your iOS or Android you are farrr from being a gamer. 



    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 40
    Oh, they will cave after their tantrum.
    edited August 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 40
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Bye Bye Epic!  Seriously hope they lose.  I've said it many times, I know Apple isn't perfect, but their walled garden helps keep by stuff secure. Epic (and others) just wants to burn that down.  I'd be welcome to Apple dropping their cut, but I still think they deserve their fair share.
    Apple's walled garden should continue to exist for the people who want it - all other should have the choice to buy from another app store !

    That's a moronic declaration. Apple isn't catering to your `perceived rights' it is designing and developing solutions for their platforms to best serve and protect the data its customers expect to be protected. You have no `perceived rights' to how Apple should meet your wishes. If you have expectations in a platform then go use the one that meets your expectations. This Libertarian philosophy of I'll manage my system doesn't fly--it's not your system. You don't own the OS. Go install Linux. Apple has large contracts with corporations who pay for features that include security across the entire platform(s). Those contractual agreements benefit consumers by having those same features FOR FREE. You don't pay for OS X. Suck it up.
    Isn't this (in part) what the App Store antitrust / monopoly case is about? You think you know the outcome - well that sounds moronic to me!
  • Reply 28 of 40
    GabyGaby Posts: 184member
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Bye Bye Epic!  Seriously hope they lose.  I've said it many times, I know Apple isn't perfect, but their walled garden helps keep by stuff secure. Epic (and others) just wants to burn that down.  I'd be welcome to Apple dropping their cut, but I still think they deserve their fair share.
    Apple's walled garden should continue to exist for the people who want it - all other should have the choice to buy from another app store !

    @xyzzy-xxx They do have that choice..... it’s called Android, and the google play store...

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 40
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,988member
    Having 70% of something is better than 100% of nothing.  These selfish people (and their supporters) are absolutely clueless on the real costs of running a business.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 40
    Fatman said:
    Epic’s stubbornness, and arrogance will hurt them more than help them. They can easily get by without supporting iOS and Mac - but why? It’s an additional revenue stream with minimal effort to support. And pulling this move before an iPhone super cycle is just idiotic. To also not support fortnite cross platform is now hurting their very own customers - now who’s the bad guy? The Customers that have invested in Fortnite with paid upgrades, etc. should initiate a class action suit against Epic - they spent money with an implied promise for platform support - and now without the ability to play against many others, Epic violated an implied agreement and should at least refund their money! 
    Agreed. Irregardless of whether Epic is right that iOS App Store rules are anticompetitive, it is effectively using its own customers as pawns in this fight to make a point.

    What I find hilarious is that Epic cites reactions by its customers in the legal request for the injunction as evidence that they are suffering irreparable harm: https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/epic-v-apple-8-17-20-768927327.pdf (see Appendix A, starting on p. 46)
    but the customers cited understand perfectly well that it is Epic's own doing: "Did you guys just screw over all your mobile players?" Epic is citing evidence against their own case...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 40
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Bye Bye Epic!  Seriously hope they lose.  I've said it many times, I know Apple isn't perfect, but their walled garden helps keep by stuff secure. Epic (and others) just wants to burn that down.  I'd be welcome to Apple dropping their cut, but I still think they deserve their fair share.
    Apple's walled garden should continue to exist for the people who want it - all other should have the choice to buy from another app store !
    They have. It’s called Android. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 40
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,988member
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Apple's walled garden should continue to exist for the people who want it - all other should have the choice to buy from another app store !
    Nonsense.  Users are in Apple ecosystem For the privacy and security provided by it.

    You want to introduce the Android mess to the iPhone?  Not going to happen.  Move to Android and enjoy your ignorance.
    tmaywatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 33 of 40
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    I love the iPhone hardware, but I want to install software of my choosing on the hardware I've purchased.

    The iPhone, iPad (Pro), and Apple TV all have amazing hardware but they lock us in the prison that is the App Store requiring a jail break to freely install anything desired.

    My hope is that they do one of the following:

    • Open up their iOS/tvOS for hardware owners to install their own choice of applications which would be limited to the confines of their security sandbox
    • Offer the option to unlock the bootloader so that it would be possible to install your own choice of operating system.

    These devices aren't cheap, yet Apple plays gatekeeper to all the software and anything they don't agree with gets rejected.

    Security wouldn't need to be weakened either since even with existing methods like code signing or enterprise certificates, apps are still sandboxed and subject to the same restrictions as those from the App Store.

    They wouldn't even have to make it easy, for all I care they could pop up a message on install saying WARNING: This software has not been verified by Apple, it may be able to steal all your data, proceed with extreme caution for all I care as long as the option was provided.

    I do not think this would be the end of the App Store since even on Android Epic had tried direct distribution for Fortnite and didn't like the outcome, so they decided to release it on the Google Play store.

    If Epic of all developers couldn't make it outside of the Play Store, what makes you think other developers would? Apps like Netflix already get along just fine by not offering IAP for their subscriptions and just function as a "reader" app.
    Well, as long as you’re happy that your phone is no longer an iPhone. 

    You forfeit your right to any support from Apple. 
    Your phone’s guarantee is now invalidated (hardware and software)
    Your AppleCare agreement is void without refund. 
    No Apple trade-in. 
    No access to iCloud. 
    Your phone displays a permanent message in the status bar (even if you attempt to restore the phone) to indicate that it has been tampered with, so that it’s clear what you’ve done when you attempt to sell it. If you want the message removed then the phone has to go back to Apple for wiping, restoration and validation which, of course, you’ll have to pay for. 

    edited August 2020 tmayGG1watto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 34 of 40
    Apple is not going to gain any additional customers with this.
    Nope, they are going to gain additional customers with the total value the products+services provide.

    They aren't going to lose any customers with this either.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 40

    auxio said:
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Bye Bye Epic!  Seriously hope they lose.  I've said it many times, I know Apple isn't perfect, but their walled garden helps keep by stuff secure. Epic (and others) just wants to burn that down.  I'd be welcome to Apple dropping their cut, but I still think they deserve their fair share.
    Apple's walled garden should continue to exist for the people who want it - all other should have the choice to buy from another app store !
    And by doing so, forfeit any warranty whatsoever on their device
    Why should this be? Does installing third party software on a Mac or Android system forfeit warranty? An iOS device can be easily reset to factory settings any time.
  • Reply 36 of 40
    Apple_Bar said:
    Beats said:
    Apple is not going to gain any additional customers with this.
    Seriously? A silly kids game is not going ruin the reputation of Apple. Epic needs Apple not the other way around. Soon some other game fad will command children’s attention away from Fortnite. I feel safer buying apps from the Apple App Store than I ever did from the Google Play Store, it’s like the Wild West over there! 

    I can't believe I recommended Apple TV run Fortnite to get the ball rolling for Apple TV gaming. What a scum company.

    The problem is, Apple didn't take gaming seriously and now that one of their biggest games is leaving the App Store it's biting them in the ass. Had Apple had AAA first party exclusives ready, if Apple Arcade was better than Fortnite and had great competitive online games like I've been suggesting for a year, then very little gamers would care. Non-gamers won't notice a difference(duh) but this WILL affect gamers whether you're a Fortnite fan or not.
    Dude THIS WON’T affect gamers at all. 

    True “GAMERS” don’t play on an iPhone or Galaxy or LG. 

    They play on CONSOLES with Keyboards, Lights, Microphones, Headphones etc..

    if you play on your iOS or Android you are farrr from being a gamer. 



    It used to be like that, yes. But truth is, nowadays I see iPad gamers beat PC pros in Fortnite …and sometimes totally own the game field.
    edited August 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 40
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    xyzzy-xxx said:

    auxio said:
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Bye Bye Epic!  Seriously hope they lose.  I've said it many times, I know Apple isn't perfect, but their walled garden helps keep by stuff secure. Epic (and others) just wants to burn that down.  I'd be welcome to Apple dropping their cut, but I still think they deserve their fair share.
    Apple's walled garden should continue to exist for the people who want it - all other should have the choice to buy from another app store !
    And by doing so, forfeit any warranty whatsoever on their device
    Why should this be? Does installing third party software on a Mac or Android system forfeit warranty? An iOS device can be easily reset to factory settings any time.
    If you use the product outside of published guidelines then your warranty is voided. 


    Apple decides what is outside published guidelines. If you run software that overheats the phone and shortens the battery life because it bypasses Apple’s safeguards then you’re out of luck. 
    watto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 38 of 40
    BebeBebe Posts: 145member
    Epic is hoping iOS users will revolt and get their sympathy, IMO.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 40
    croprcropr Posts: 1,078member
    Bebe said:
    Epic is hoping iOS users will revolt and get their sympathy, IMO.
    Like always some will definitely complain or start a class action. But the main question is: will there be enough pressure to really embarrass Apple?
  • Reply 40 of 40
    NaiyasNaiyas Posts: 96member
    I love the iPhone hardware, but I want to install software of my choosing on the hardware I've purchased.

    The iPhone, iPad (Pro), and Apple TV all have amazing hardware but they lock us in the prison that is the App Store requiring a jail break to freely install anything desired.

    My hope is that they do one of the following:

    • Open up their iOS/tvOS for hardware owners to install their own choice of applications which would be limited to the confines of their security sandbox
    • Offer the option to unlock the bootloader so that it would be possible to install your own choice of operating system.

    These devices aren't cheap, yet Apple plays gatekeeper to all the software and anything they don't agree with gets rejected.

    Security wouldn't need to be weakened either since even with existing methods like code signing or enterprise certificates, apps are still sandboxed and subject to the same restrictions as those from the App Store.

    They wouldn't even have to make it easy, for all I care they could pop up a message on install saying WARNING: This software has not been verified by Apple, it may be able to steal all your data, proceed with extreme caution for all I care as long as the option was provided.

    I do not think this would be the end of the App Store since even on Android Epic had tried direct distribution for Fortnite and didn't like the outcome, so they decided to release it on the Google Play store.

    If Epic of all developers couldn't make it outside of the Play Store, what makes you think other developers would? Apps like Netflix already get along just fine by not offering IAP for their subscriptions and just function as a "reader" app.
    Others have spoken on this but here’s my two cents on this “idea”.

    1. You are confusing what hardware and software are.
    2. Apple sells a complete “packaged product”. 

    When you buy an iPhone, iPad, AppleTV you are not buying hardware. You are buying hardware AND a licence to run iOS, iPadOS, and tvOS on the relevant device. Should you choose to decide to completely remove the provided OS and install your own then you are welcome to do so, but you will lose any warranty support you think you may have a right as you may have damaged the hardware.

    It may not be easy to do the above but it is possible. And if you really want to install what you want to on your device sign up for a developer account and you can sideload whatever you can get your hands on via Xcode without breaking warranty!
    watto_cobraDetnator
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