Shouldn’t the Chinese Foreign Ministry have brushed up on their English before going on record?
YES! How can the Chinese Foreign Ministry dare to insult God's Favorite Nation with less than perfectly polished coherent English when addressing the most powerful wonderful country in the World, headed by such an articulate diplomatic, and pensive Fearless Leader. I bet they don't even know the meaning of covfefe. Savages.
And it will signal to the rest of the world that China is now closed for business
That last sentence is so important.
No, it's not, not until it actually happens.
And you completely cut off the rest of what I wrote about it probably not happening; so how about you the next time reply to what people actually have written, or simply go off on your tangent without feeling the need to misrepresent someone else's comment first?
It’s been stated by the feds the ban wouldn’t extend to China in any case. Since China bans certain apps domestically the U. S. doing the same shouldn’t be an issue. (Though my understanding is there’s no basis in reality for the planned ban as there’s no evidence of a security breach).
Someone within the administration might have said that, or it might have been reported that someone said that, but as the EOs are written the prohibition would effectively ban Apple from allowing certain apps from being distributed in China. The EOs prohibit entities and people subject to U.S. jurisdiction from transacting with the companies, not from transacting with the companies in the U.S. Apple parent is subject to U.S. jurisdiction and the decision makers are within the U.S., their actions are controlled by the EOs.
The administration may effectively backtrack on what it ordered by interpreting the EOs to be more limited. But they aren't written to be thusly limited.
I know this is a basic question, but I haven't seen it answered anywhere:
Can the US president force a US based company to ban an App in a foreign country? Or can companies do what they feel like outside the US?
I realize a President could always threaten retaliation on behavior they don't like, but can they actually tell Apple "you cannot offer WeChat in the Chinese App Store?
Just curious if anyone knows?
As Svanstrom previously indicated, under some circumstances the answer is yes.
It's funny how people think Apple can just pull out of China no questions asked.
What people forget is most of America's debt is owned by China. If China really wants to mess with America all it needs to do is call in its debts from America and the entire American economy is screwed. America won't be able to pay that debt.
But go on Trump, poke the bear.
China doesn't own most of America's debt. (I think you're referring to the public debt of the U.S., but even if you're referring to the collective debt of individual Americans it isn't true.)
China (i.e. entities from China) holds around 5% of U.S. debt held by the public and about 4% of total U.S. debt (taking into account intergovernmental holdings). Last I looked, Japan now holds more U.S. debt than China does. And most U.S. debt isn't held by foreigners, it's held by Americans (or American entities) or state or state governments or the Federal Reserve.
Further, most U.S. debt is in the form of Treasuries, and you can't just call them in. They are due when they are due. If you no longer want to hold that debt, you sell it to someone else. If China decided to sell all of its U.S. debt holdings, that would affect things for the U.S. - it would, e.g., likely cause interest rates to rise some. But the FOMC would likely step in and buy more Treasuries to offset that affect. And China would likely also take a sizable haircut on the value of its holdings if it tried to sell them all fast enough to have a substantial effect.
WeChat is essential to daily life in China and for Chinese elsewhere, so without it, there really is not need to use an iPhone when there are other choices.
He was simply stating a fact.
Apple can thank Trump for killing it’s second largest market.
I can tell you the switch is already starting, people buying a new phone simply won’t chose an iPhone any longer.
This is not about anti-American sentiment but merely practical necessity .
Americans should understand Mr Trump is ruining the reputation of the USA in the world and if he is re-elected things will turn from bad to worse.
Trump’s endless stream of xenophobic and racist rants, and his use of China as a scapegoat to get re-elected has a price, and Apple and other brands are paying the price.
To put that "killing it's second largest market" into perspective…
China would probably have been Facebook's second, maybe even first, largest market if they'd been allowed in; same with Google if they'd been allowed to simply be accessed from China.
From that perspective USA has been asleep at the wheel, and has completely missed the mark as far as what to focus on as far as China's position in the world as both a trading and (soft) political force/partner.
Banning apps and killing markets is simply the phrasing you end up with as the world is waking up and making important course corrections; to end up with a more level playing field.
China recognized how both Facebook and Google can be and are used to manipulate public thinking and wisely banned both. They aren't stupid.
It’s a matter of time before Apple pulls out of China. And all that manufacturing, developer, retail, and R&D investments can find a new home
And it will signal to the rest of the world that China is now closed for business
That last sentence is so important.
Of course it won't be a definite "sign on the door" closed; but it will send such a strong signal that there will be extra board meetings with confused people in panic preparing their business' for surviving the same. Not being able to just do the same, but actually having their business survive when they must do the same.
Which is why personally don't believe it will actually completely come to that. Unless Winnie Xi overestimates his power and makes a short-term (less say within a decade) international power move against the US, then US companies will one way or another be encouraged to stay at least partially tied to China.
The world knows that: The 19th century belonged to the British, the 20th belonged to the USA and the 21st will belong to China.
Today, the U.S. is in the same type of decline as the British were in the 20th century -- having gotten fat and lazy and having spent its wealth and power protecting a global empire it was no longer competitive. But the USA didn't leap into the void: it spend the first half of the 20th century primarily neutral building its wealth and power and mostly staying out of other's fights and squabbles. It wasn't till the second half that the USA became the world's policeman squandering its wealth and power trying to dominate the world while China stays mostly out of other people's squabbles while it quietly builds its own wealth and power.
Trump knows that too: that's why his trade war with China ended abruptly when China granted Wall Street access to Chinese markets. He called it his "Phase One" deal, but nobody has ever heard the details of it. That's because there are no details -- except that America's 1% have assured access to Chinese markets.
So does this then justify being a complete scumbags, stealing IP and doing whatever “they” like but no-one else can?
Thankfully I live a long way from the USA and admit I haven’t got the first clue about Trump and his policies.
What I take offense to is the fact that hard earned IP and jobs being stolen by China and them doing whatever they hell they want, people looking the other just because they are NOT a democracy?
And it will signal to the rest of the world that China is now closed for business
That last sentence is so important.
No, it's not, not until it actually happens.
And you completely cut off the rest of what I wrote about it probably not happening; so how about you the next time reply to what people actually have written, or simply go off on your tangent without feeling the need to misrepresent someone else's comment first?
I didn't mischaracterize jack shit. I did agreed with your statement and nothing you posted after that changed anything.
Maybe China also will have no problem with Apple moving all iPhone production out of China.
Why? Because Trump told you to hate China?
Or is it one of his FactFree Allegations?
Meanwhile, while he has you all obsessed with China, his buddy Vladimir continues to attack our country and its elections.
This has nothing to do with Trump. Show's your ignorance in the global community. I've been complaining abut China being a problem LONG before #45 ever stepped foot into the Oval Room. That you're making it about Trump just shows you don't have anything to debate, so you play the Trump card.
Sorry, but it has everything to do with Trump. It is his cold war that he is creating. So far he has produced zero facts to support it -- just his usual smear campaign that his followers take as gospel.
Every despot needs to distract his supporters from their own evil and this one needs to distract his followers from the real enemy: Russia.
I hope you grow up enough to understand the enemy can be more than one?
So does this then justify being a complete scumbags, stealing IP and doing whatever “they” like but no-one else can?
Thankfully I live a long way from the USA and admit I haven’t got the first clue about Trump and his policies.
What I take offense to is the fact that hard earned IP and jobs being stolen by China and them doing whatever they hell they want, people looking the other just because they are NOT a democracy?
Interesting that you deleted the rest of my post and then responded with a totally unrelated response.
But, regardless:
Any actual evidence for your claims?
All I hear are these broadbrush, non-specific smears that mostly come from Trump and his supporters -- and are mostly based on the fact that the U.S. fell behind. But, we have ourselves to blame for that, not China. And it won't be fixed till we stop making excuses and blaming others for our failures.
So does this then justify being a complete scumbags, stealing IP and doing whatever “they” like but no-one else can?
Thankfully I live a long way from the USA and admit I haven’t got the first clue about Trump and his policies.
What I take offense to is the fact that hard earned IP and jobs being stolen by China and them doing whatever they hell they want, people looking the other just because they are NOT a democracy?
Interesting that you deleted the rest of my post and then responded with a totally unrelated response.
But, regardless:
Any actual evidence for your claims?
All I hear are these broadbrush, non-specific smears that mostly come from Trump and his supporters -- and are mostly based on the fact that the U.S. fell behind. But, we have ourselves to blame for that, not China. And it won't be fixed till we stop making excuses and blaming others for our failures.
A good first step would be stop being as divisive as "the Trumpers".
I am the US. I think you are the US. Most of us posting here are the US. Rather than making fun of and belittling the other integral parts of the US put more effort into constructive comments and advice, a bit less "Yay China the masters of the 21st century who will bury the US" and more how do we begin to fix the damage we do to each other with comments like Trumps and yours. Unless your intent is to divide and conquer (which isn't out of the question, the jury is still out), perhaps heal and work together would be more worth your effort, something you can do that's positive and not so negative.
Seriously George, you're acting like you enjoy disparaging everyone who doesn't think as you do, and missing few opportunities to be dismissive of those you want to pretend are your enemies: Those evil and stupid "right-wingers". That's being more like Trump than not, just a Democrat version. We can't heal as long as we have a significant number thinking like you do. Think Different.
It’s been stated by the feds the ban wouldn’t extend to China in any case. Since China bans certain apps domestically the U. S. doing the same shouldn’t be an issue. (Though my understanding is there’s no basis in reality for the planned ban as there’s no evidence of a security breach).
So does this then justify being a complete scumbags, stealing IP and doing whatever “they” like but no-one else can?
Thankfully I live a long way from the USA and admit I haven’t got the first clue about Trump and his policies.
What I take offense to is the fact that hard earned IP and jobs being stolen by China and them doing whatever they hell they want, people looking the other just because they are NOT a democracy?
Interesting that you deleted the rest of my post and then responded with a totally unrelated response.
But, regardless:
Any actual evidence for your claims?
All I hear are these broadbrush, non-specific smears that mostly come from Trump and his supporters -- and are mostly based on the fact that the U.S. fell behind. But, we have ourselves to blame for that, not China. And it won't be fixed till we stop making excuses and blaming others for our failures.
A good first step would be stop being as divisive as "the Trumpers".
I am the US. I think you are the US. Most of us posting here are the US. Rather than making fun of and belittling the other integral parts of the US put more effort into constructive comments and advice, a bit less "Yay China the masters of the 21st century who will bury the US" and more how do we begin to fix the damage we do to each other with comments like Trumps and yours. Unless your intent is to divide and conquer (which isn't out of the question, the jury is still out), perhaps heal and work together would be more worth your effort, something you can do that's positive and not so negative.
Seriously George, you're acting like you enjoy disparaging everyone who doesn't think as you do, and missing few opportunities to be dismissive of those you want to pretend are your enemies: Those evil and stupid "right-wingers". That's being more like Trump than not, just a Democrat version. We can't heal as long as we have a significant number thinking like you do. Think Different.
A good first step would be to avoid your typical ad hominums and fabrications and actually try contributing something.
It's funny how people think Apple can just pull out of China no questions asked.
What people forget is most of America's debt is owned by China. If China really wants to mess with America all it needs to do is call in its debts from America and the entire American economy is screwed. America won't be able to pay that debt.
But go on Trump, poke the bear.
I agree with you about poking the bear and people thinking we can just leave China like it is no big deal..But they ( China ) never will call in that debt..
The dollar collapse it would cause would disrupt international markets worse than the 2008 financial, crisis and in the process hurt them as well. Both China and Japan want to keep their currency valued low cashing in would raise the value of their own currency while driving down the value of US dollar. So their products, still priced in yuan and yen, would cost relatively
more in the United States. Their economies would suffer. Right now, it's
still in their best interest to hold on to their dollar reserves so they can keep their exports to the US cheap.
It's funny how people think Apple can just pull out of China no questions asked.
What people forget is most of America's debt is owned by China. If China really wants to mess with America all it needs to do is call in its debts from America and the entire American economy is screwed. America won't be able to pay that debt.
But go on Trump, poke the bear.
I agree with you about poking the bear and people thinking we can just leave China like it is no big deal..But they ( China ) never will call in that debt..
The dollar collapse it would cause would disrupt international markets worse than the 2008 financial, crisis and in the process hurt them as well. Both China and Japan want to keep their currency valued low cashing in would raise the value of their own currency while driving down the value of US dollar. So their products, still priced in yuan and yen, would cost relatively
more in the United States. Their economies would suffer. Right now, it's
still in their best interest to hold on to their dollar reserves so they can keep their exports to the US cheap.
It's funny how people think Apple can just pull out of China no questions asked.
What people forget is most of America's debt is owned by China. If China really wants to mess with America all it needs to do is call in its debts from America and the entire American economy is screwed. America won't be able to pay that debt.
But go on Trump, poke the bear.
I agree with you about poking the bear and people thinking we can
just leave China like it is no big deal..But they ( China ) never will
call in that debt..
The dollar collapse it
would cause would disrupt international markets worse than the 2008
financial, crisis and in the process hurt them as well. Both China and
Japan want to keep their currency valued low cashing in would raise the
value of their own currency while driving down the value of US dollar.
So their products, still priced in yuan and yen, would cost relatively
more in the United States. Their economies would suffer. Right now, it's
still in their best interest to hold on to their dollar reserves so
they can keep their exports to the US cheap.
Comments
YES! How can the Chinese Foreign Ministry dare to insult God's Favorite Nation with less than perfectly polished coherent English when addressing the most powerful wonderful country in the World, headed by such an articulate diplomatic, and pensive Fearless Leader. I bet they don't even know the meaning of covfefe. Savages.
The administration may effectively backtrack on what it ordered by interpreting the EOs to be more limited. But they aren't written to be thusly limited.
See, e.g., the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
China doesn't own most of America's debt. (I think you're referring to the public debt of the U.S., but even if you're referring to the collective debt of individual Americans it isn't true.)
China (i.e. entities from China) holds around 5% of U.S. debt held by the public and about 4% of total U.S. debt (taking into account intergovernmental holdings). Last I looked, Japan now holds more U.S. debt than China does. And most U.S. debt isn't held by foreigners, it's held by Americans (or American entities) or state or state governments or the Federal Reserve.
Further, most U.S. debt is in the form of Treasuries, and you can't just call them in. They are due when they are due. If you no longer want to hold that debt, you sell it to someone else. If China decided to sell all of its U.S. debt holdings, that would affect things for the U.S. - it would, e.g., likely cause interest rates to rise some. But the FOMC would likely step in and buy more Treasuries to offset that affect. And China would likely also take a sizable haircut on the value of its holdings if it tried to sell them all fast enough to have a substantial effect.
China recognized how both Facebook and Google can be and are used to manipulate public thinking and wisely banned both. They aren't stupid.
Thankfully I live a long way from the USA and admit I haven’t got the first clue about Trump and his policies.
I am the US. I think you are the US. Most of us posting here are the US. Rather than making fun of and belittling the other integral parts of the US put more effort into constructive comments and advice, a bit less "Yay China the masters of the 21st century who will bury the US" and more how do we begin to fix the damage we do to each other with comments like Trumps and yours. Unless your intent is to divide and conquer (which isn't out of the question, the jury is still out), perhaps heal and work together would be more worth your effort, something you can do that's positive and not so negative.
Seriously George, you're acting like you enjoy disparaging everyone who doesn't think as you do, and missing few opportunities to be dismissive of those you want to pretend are your enemies: Those evil and stupid "right-wingers". That's being more like Trump than not, just a Democrat version. We can't heal as long as we have a significant number thinking like you do. Think Different.