Apple employee bag check class-action lawsuit revived

2»

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,753member
    the monk said:
    I don’t understand why Apple keeps on fighting this, just pay them! These guys are the only brand representatives that customers really talk to, and they’re worth it. One call with from Tim Cook to legal will end this.
    It's unlikely that Apple Legal defends anything but the most trivial of cases without consulting Cook. Therefore Cook almost certainly approved the fight against the employees. He is a bean counter after all, and everything is about money to him.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 22 of 38
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,753member


    Workers should be angry at those that make this measure necessary, not at Apple. Check yourself. Hold each other accountable.
    So if there was never any theft from Apple Sores by employees, and Apple enforced this rule anyway, it's still the fault of the employees? Riiiight.
    ronndysamoria
  • Reply 23 of 38
    The fact that an Apple manual suggests touch ID on a power button is fairly convincing. But could it be intentionally misleading? Has Apple ever produced false information before? Would it be even legal for Apple to produce false information to create miss leads? Companies that are publicly traded may have rules preventing such misleading statements.
  • Reply 24 of 38
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,753member

    I wonder what the rate of theft is by Apple employees discovered through these bag checks? 
    You have to factor in the deterrence the bag checks have caused to prevent theft and that’s impossible to do. 

    Apple should have 100% paid them. A trillion dollar company stiffing hourly wage employees is and looks horrible. 
    I’ve worked at places where a bag/backpack check was required and never did I imagine I was “owed” anything for the brief amount of my time that was taken. I worked there voluntarily and could’ve quit at any time.
    You still wouldn't mind if you had to wait unpaid "up to 45 minutes" for a bag check?
    ronnCarnagedysamoriamuthuk_vanalingamhammeroftruth
  • Reply 25 of 38
    elijahg said:

    I wonder what the rate of theft is by Apple employees discovered through these bag checks? 
    You have to factor in the deterrence the bag checks have caused to prevent theft and that’s impossible to do. 

    Apple should have 100% paid them. A trillion dollar company stiffing hourly wage employees is and looks horrible. 
    I’ve worked at places where a bag/backpack check was required and never did I imagine I was “owed” anything for the brief amount of my time that was taken. I worked there voluntarily and could’ve quit at any time.
    You still wouldn't mind if you had to wait unpaid "up to 45 minutes" for a bag check?
    Because the complaint included the words “up to” then you can almost guarantee that was hardly ever the case. “Up to” means an extreme outlier.
  • Reply 26 of 38
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,753member
    elijahg said:

    I wonder what the rate of theft is by Apple employees discovered through these bag checks? 
    You have to factor in the deterrence the bag checks have caused to prevent theft and that’s impossible to do. 

    Apple should have 100% paid them. A trillion dollar company stiffing hourly wage employees is and looks horrible. 
    I’ve worked at places where a bag/backpack check was required and never did I imagine I was “owed” anything for the brief amount of my time that was taken. I worked there voluntarily and could’ve quit at any time.
    You still wouldn't mind if you had to wait unpaid "up to 45 minutes" for a bag check?
    Because the complaint included the words “up to” then you can almost guarantee that was hardly ever the case. “Up to” means an extreme outlier.
    It was obviously often enough not to be "brief" on average, which is where the lawsuit stems from. Anything more than 5 minutes should be compensated. Even 5 minutes is a whole hour given to Apple for free every 12 days. What you can guarantee is if the employee came in 5 minutes late every day, the manager would soon have words.
    edited September 2020 ronndysamoriaGabymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 27 of 38
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    I wonder what the rate of theft is by Apple employees discovered through these bag checks? 
    You have to factor in the deterrence the bag checks have caused to prevent theft and that’s impossible to do. 

    Apple should have 100% paid them. A trillion dollar company stiffing hourly wage employees is and looks horrible. 
    I’ve worked at places where a bag/backpack check was required and never did I imagine I was “owed” anything for the brief amount of my time that was taken. I worked there voluntarily and could’ve quit at any time.
    I figured there would be at least one “voluntary employment” comment like this. Just because you’re happy to lick the corporate boot doesn't mean anyone else should be. If you feel like working is entirely voluntary for you, then be happy for your privilege, but your life experience isn’t representative of every other person’s life experience.

    For starters, it’s not a “brief amount of time” that’s been reported in these Apple bag check cases. I recall reports of 10-20 minutes for staff to deal with checking an outgoing shift of workers. It’s mandatory time where employees are held back from leaving the job. If an employee is there mandatorily, they should be paid. Period.
    Gabymuthuk_vanalingamelijahgronnCloudTalkin
  • Reply 28 of 38
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    jdw said:
    This is why so much of American manufacturing has moved outside the USA.  All those seemingly positive changes that arguably do benefit the employee is what leads to people having a harder time finding jobs in the US.  Somebody complains, changes are made, laws altered, then it gets too expensive to manufacture in the USA, then the company moves manufacturing overseas and those jobs are gone.  

    Who pays me to drive to work?
    Who pays me to drive home from work?

    Sorry, but we all use a lot of personal time that is unpaid when it comes to our job.  A bag check is nothing in the greater scheme of things.  And it seems to have been implemented because of morons who get hired at Apple yet then feel entitled to take what is not theirs.

    The more benefits you give people, the more they will want.  Human beings are never satisfied.  I think Apple has struck a good balance to date considering just how difficult the human brain is to handle.  It's really amazing they are still based in California with all the left-leaning laws and verdicts handed down.  
    And there we go with another person willing to lick the corporate boot. But wait, *you’re* not really in this situation, though, are you? You’re willing to make sure *others* lick the corporate boot for your stock prices, right? You’re comfortable calling workers “morons” because you see yourself as superior to hourly wage workers, yeah?
    Gabyelijahgronn
  • Reply 29 of 38
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member

    jdw said:
    jdw said:
    This is why so much of American manufacturing has moved outside the USA.  All those seemingly positive changes that arguably do benefit the employee is what leads to people having a harder time finding jobs in the US.  Somebody complains, changes are made, laws altered, then it gets too expensive to manufacture in the USA, then the company moves manufacturing overseas and those jobs are gone.  

    Who pays me to drive to work?
    Who pays me to drive home from work?

    Sorry, but we all use a lot of personal time that is unpaid when it comes to our job.  A bag check is nothing in the greater scheme of things.  And it seems to have been implemented because of morons who get hired at Apple yet then feel entitled to take what is not theirs.

    The more benefits you give people, the more they will want.  Human beings are never satisfied.  I think Apple has struck a good balance to date considering just how difficult the human brain is to handle.  It's really amazing they are still based in California with all the left-leaning laws and verdicts handed down.  
    You are amazingly uniformed it isn’t even funny. 
    Terse posts that merely chastise another without explanation certainly is not amusing either.

    But let's analyze your assessment.  I said I don't get paid to drive to and from work.  Only I know that, not you. Therefore I am informed about that matter while you are not.  As to why businesses move outside the USA, that has been well established.  When costs rise too much, you must raise prices or reduce costs or both.  And as to the goings on in California, as someone who lived 24 years there, I speak from an informed position.  As to human beings never being satisfied, well, I doubt this rebuttal will satisfy you, furthering my point. :-) 

    Next time, just say you disagree.  That's far better than name-calling.
    Oh but it’s okay for you to act elitist when describing people who work retail? Unions have a history of turning into something they shouldn’t be, but they also have a history of existing for good reason: employers are never satisfied, and will take, and abuse until stopped by group bargaining or law. Yet, here you are, promoting the myth that workers (which you called “people” to distance yourself from your actual meaning) are selfish and that it perpetually harms business to treat employees ethically.

    It’s a good thing for the standard of working conditions to improve; it’s also not actually consistently happening even in the USA, especially for hourly workers who have no collective bargaining power (and even then, once the union gets too big, it becomes more about their own sustenance than about the workers’ rights, as I’ve found with a corrupt union).

    You take issue with being called “uninformed”, but you appear devoid of empathy for hourly workers. Why is that? Is it a lack of awareness of the actual conditions (also known as “being uniformed”), or is it a lack of willingness to identify with a specific group of people?
    Gabymuthuk_vanalingamelijahgronn
  • Reply 30 of 38
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    elijahg said:

    I wonder what the rate of theft is by Apple employees discovered through these bag checks? 
    You have to factor in the deterrence the bag checks have caused to prevent theft and that’s impossible to do. 

    Apple should have 100% paid them. A trillion dollar company stiffing hourly wage employees is and looks horrible. 
    I’ve worked at places where a bag/backpack check was required and never did I imagine I was “owed” anything for the brief amount of my time that was taken. I worked there voluntarily and could’ve quit at any time.
    You still wouldn't mind if you had to wait unpaid "up to 45 minutes" for a bag check?
    Because the complaint included the words “up to” then you can almost guarantee that was hardly ever the case. “Up to” means an extreme outlier.
    How generous of you to assume the most favorable conditions for the company are the most common, while the least favorable conditions for the workers is “an extreme outlier”...
    Gabymuthuk_vanalingamelijahgronn
  • Reply 31 of 38
    jdw said:
    This is why so much of American manufacturing has moved outside the USA.  All those seemingly positive changes that arguably do benefit the employee is what leads to people having a harder time finding jobs in the US.  Somebody complains, changes are made, laws altered, then it gets too expensive to manufacture in the USA, then the company moves manufacturing overseas and those jobs are gone.  

    Who pays me to drive to work?
    Who pays me to drive home from work?

    Sorry, but we all use a lot of personal time that is unpaid when it comes to our job.  A bag check is nothing in the greater scheme of things.  And it seems to have been implemented because of morons who get hired at Apple yet then feel entitled to take what is not theirs.

    The more benefits you give people, the more they will want.  Human beings are never satisfied.  I think Apple has struck a good balance to date considering just how difficult the human brain is to handle.  It's really amazing they are still based in California with all the left-leaning laws and verdicts handed down.  
    One fact that many commenters are missing is that it this extra time spent on premises is required by the employer, and the whole exit process is under their control.

    Walking down the long corporate hallway or driving to/from work is (generally) in the control of the employee and is done voluntarily (i.e. to get to/from work, to do the job).  Most corporate positions are also salaried, such that you get paid whether you spent 30 hours or 50 hours working that week.  Drive/walk times are irrelevant. (Yes, there are a select salaried positions that are exempt from overtime, but that's a different beast.)

    Where Apple is requiring hourly employees to clock out, but then is also detaining them with the threat of discipline if they don't comply is where they cross the line.  It is a shame it took 7 years to hash out common sense.

    Stuff like this has always been sticky for hourly workers.

    Years ago, my dad was on the timekeeping development team at a large call center company. Call agents caused a big fuss (and won) because they weren't getting paid for the 2-4 minutes it took for them every day to log into their computers and open the time-keeping app. Even though the total wages not paid added up to maybe $50 over a calendar year, they built an elaborate solution that automatically clocks call agents in when they log in to the computer.
    ronnmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 32 of 38
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:

    I wonder what the rate of theft is by Apple employees discovered through these bag checks? 
    You have to factor in the deterrence the bag checks have caused to prevent theft and that’s impossible to do. 

    Apple should have 100% paid them. A trillion dollar company stiffing hourly wage employees is and looks horrible. 
    I’ve worked at places where a bag/backpack check was required and never did I imagine I was “owed” anything for the brief amount of my time that was taken. I worked there voluntarily and could’ve quit at any time.
    You still wouldn't mind if you had to wait unpaid "up to 45 minutes" for a bag check?
    Because the complaint included the words “up to” then you can almost guarantee that was hardly ever the case. “Up to” means an extreme outlier.
    It was obviously often enough not to be "brief" on average, which is where the lawsuit stems from. Anything more than 5 minutes should be compensated. Even 5 minutes is a whole hour given to Apple for free every 12 days. What you can guarantee is if the employee came in 5 minutes late every day, the manager would soon have words.
    Pfffft. Why are employees today such entitled pussies?
  • Reply 33 of 38
    fred1 said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Sorry, Apple, but if the bag check is compulsory then you have to pay the workers for complying. 
    Do workers have to be paid for the time it takes them to walk from the front door of their very large corporate HQ building to their office desk? I wouldn’t think so. And if the bag check occurs at the main entrance, then that I suspect that that wouldn’t be payable time either. But I am neither a lawyer nor American. 
    No, in this case that would be like asking if the employees should be paid from the time they get out of their cars in the parking lot or from the time that they leave their homes. An Apple Store employee’s day ends when he or she leaves the store. An office employee’s day begins when he or she arrives at his or her desk. 
    I admit I didn’t realize that the lawsuit was for only departing employees, but two experienced posters answered my question totally oppositely and I would much enjoy seeing the two of you hash out your difference of opinion. 
    Fred provided an answer to a question that incorrectly assumed the issue involved coming to work.  His answer was correct in that an employee's day starts when they clock in for their shift.  That's an entirely separate issue from the focus of the class action.  The class action only involves being unpaid for a work activity: the bag check upon leaving work.  If the bag check has to be done, it should be done while the employee is on the clock. Once completed, the employee should clock out being paid for their time.
    There's really no difference of opinions, just two different subjects: arrival to, and departure from, work.
    ronn
  • Reply 34 of 38

    Fred provided an answer to a question that incorrectly assumed the issue involved coming to work.  ...
    There's really no difference of opinions, just two different subjects: arrival to, and departure from, work.

    I think you misunderstood me. Maybe I could have been clearer. Okay, here it is more clearly:

    Fred said, "an office employee's day begins when he or she arrives at her desk." But MWhite said "yes they should be paid for that long walk...[for the time it takes them to walk from the front door of their very large corporate HQ building to their office desk]." Those are opposing statements. They both have to do with arrival at work. I see differences of opinion on this. I am not referring to departure from work. Both Fred and MWhite (and myself) are talking about arrival to work. Is it clear now?

  • Reply 35 of 38
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:

    I wonder what the rate of theft is by Apple employees discovered through these bag checks? 
    You have to factor in the deterrence the bag checks have caused to prevent theft and that’s impossible to do. 

    Apple should have 100% paid them. A trillion dollar company stiffing hourly wage employees is and looks horrible. 
    I’ve worked at places where a bag/backpack check was required and never did I imagine I was “owed” anything for the brief amount of my time that was taken. I worked there voluntarily and could’ve quit at any time.
    You still wouldn't mind if you had to wait unpaid "up to 45 minutes" for a bag check?
    Because the complaint included the words “up to” then you can almost guarantee that was hardly ever the case. “Up to” means an extreme outlier.
    It was obviously often enough not to be "brief" on average, which is where the lawsuit stems from. Anything more than 5 minutes should be compensated. Even 5 minutes is a whole hour given to Apple for free every 12 days. What you can guarantee is if the employee came in 5 minutes late every day, the manager would soon have words.
    Pfffft. Why are employees today such entitled pussies?
    Yeah I’m sure your time is more important and if you had to wait a half hour to get help at an Apple store you would be raging. 

    The point is, when an employee is told to clock out, their time is their own, not their employer who has instructed their managers to conduct bag checks when it isn’t busy. Smart managers would make employees clock back in while they waited for the manager. 

    You might argue what is 5 minutes? Well, if you work 5 days a week and that happens every day, then that’s over an hour and a half a month. That’s the employees time, not Apple’s and if they prevented the employee from enjoying their time, then they should pay. 

    I have met many Apple retail employees, they are all great and great at their job, but it takes a lot out of them after a day putting up with unruly customers, and Apple’s heavy expectations, so every minute counts. 

    BTW, those bag checks were pretty much useless, that’s why they got rid of them right after this lawsuit came to be.  If you wanted to steal from an Apple store there were much easier ways and the irony is they probably were more successful in nabbing shoplifters than any employee putting something in their bag.

    As busy as the Apple stores are/were, it was easier as a customer to steal because more time and money was spent on searching employees than hiring good loss prevention contractors. 

    I’m sure you would end up crying after your first week if you worked for Apple retail back then. 
    edited September 2020 ronn
  • Reply 36 of 38
    bsnjon said:
    Without a union in their corner, it took Seven Years of the expensive litigation and some serious luck to come to the just result for workers. 
    Employees tried to unionize, it wasn’t successful. Why? Because all they had to do was look at their own state of California to see just how bad unions made things. 
  • Reply 37 of 38
    bsnjon said:
    Without a union in their corner, it took Seven Years of the expensive litigation and some serious luck to come to the just result for workers. 
    Employees tried to unionize, it wasn’t successful. Why? Because all they had to do was look at their own state of California to see just how bad unions made things. 
    Unions literally built this country and created the greatest middle class the world has ever known.
    More importantly, if my boss is telling me what to do, that means I am at work and must be paid. To not do so is theft, plain and simple.
    ronn
  • Reply 38 of 38
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:

    I wonder what the rate of theft is by Apple employees discovered through these bag checks? 
    You have to factor in the deterrence the bag checks have caused to prevent theft and that’s impossible to do. 

    Apple should have 100% paid them. A trillion dollar company stiffing hourly wage employees is and looks horrible. 
    I’ve worked at places where a bag/backpack check was required and never did I imagine I was “owed” anything for the brief amount of my time that was taken. I worked there voluntarily and could’ve quit at any time.
    You still wouldn't mind if you had to wait unpaid "up to 45 minutes" for a bag check?
    Because the complaint included the words “up to” then you can almost guarantee that was hardly ever the case. “Up to” means an extreme outlier.
    It was obviously often enough not to be "brief" on average, which is where the lawsuit stems from. Anything more than 5 minutes should be compensated. Even 5 minutes is a whole hour given to Apple for free every 12 days. What you can guarantee is if the employee came in 5 minutes late every day, the manager would soon have words.
    Pfffft. Why are employees today such entitled pussies?
    Yeah I’m sure your time is more important and if you had to wait a half hour to get help at an Apple store you would be raging. 

    The point is, when an employee is told to clock out, their time is their own, not their employer who has instructed their managers to conduct bag checks when it isn’t busy. Smart managers would make employees clock back in while they waited for the manager. 

    You might argue what is 5 minutes? Well, if you work 5 days a week and that happens every day, then that’s over an hour and a half a month. That’s the employees time, not Apple’s and if they prevented the employee from enjoying their time, then they should pay. 

    I have met many Apple retail employees, they are all great and great at their job, but it takes a lot out of them after a day putting up with unruly customers, and Apple’s heavy expectations, so every minute counts. 

    BTW, those bag checks were pretty much useless, that’s why they got rid of them right after this lawsuit came to be.  If you wanted to steal from an Apple store there were much easier ways and the irony is they probably were more successful in nabbing shoplifters than any employee putting something in their bag.

    As busy as the Apple stores are/were, it was easier as a customer to steal because more time and money was spent on searching employees than hiring good loss prevention contractors. 

    I’m sure you would end up crying after your first week if you worked for Apple retail back then. 
    Nope. I’ve had far, far worse jobs and I was always grateful to be given the opportunity to earn money while providing my best efforts in exchange.
Sign In or Register to comment.