Who Has Information On Epson?s New Photo Printers?

jaddie · March 24, 2002 7:50PM

Dear Friends

Do any of you have any information on Epsons new photo printers? In the UK Epson just introduced the 2880x1440 Stylus Photo 950 whose features include CD-printing. (<a href="http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=4360""; target="_blank">link</a>)

It looks as though Epsons replacing its Stylus 2000P, too, with a seven-color (individual ink tanks), CD-printing, 2880x1440, FireWire-enabled big printer in Japan. (<a href="http://www.i-love-epson.co.jp/products/printer/inkjet/pm4000px/pm4000px1.htm""; target="_blank">link</a>)

When will the US see these new printers? I can hardly wait!

Sincerely,

Jaddie

[ 03-24-2002: Message edited by: Jaddie ]

neutrino23 · March 24, 2002 10:07PM

I saw the new Epson printer at MacWorld Tokyo last week. Really cool. We will probably get one for the office soon.

It features a FW interface (as well as parallel and usb2). There are seven ink cartridges, the inks are pigment based rather than dye based, there are seven ink cartidges so you can just replace the cartridge that runs low. Also, there are different sets of colors for different papers. There is one set of color inks but they have a black ink for photo paper, a black ink for matte paper and a grey ink. You mix and match the blacks and grays for different papers. This printer (PM-4000CX) handles roll paper as well as cut paper, it has an adapter to allow printing on CDR disks standard. Overall speed looks similar to the predecessor (PM-3500C), maybe a little faster. As before, you can print full bleed. All in all this seems like a great printer.

Selling price in Japan is about $550.

neutrino23 · March 24, 2002 10:13PM

[quote]Originally posted by neutrino23:

I saw the new Epson printer at MacWorld Tokyo last week. Really cool. We will probably get one for the office soon.

It features a FW interface (as well as parallel and usb2). There are seven ink cartridges, the inks are pigment based rather than dye based, there are seven ink cartidges so you can just replace the cartridge that runs low. Also, there are different sets of colors for different papers. There is one set of color inks but they have a black ink for photo paper, a black ink for matte paper and a grey ink. You mix and match the blacks and grays for different papers. This printer (PM-4000CX) handles roll paper as well as cut paper, it has an adapter to allow printing on CDR disks standard. Overall speed looks similar to the predecessor (PM-3500C), maybe a little faster. As before, you can print full bleed. All in all this seems like a great printer.

Selling price in Japan is about $550.<hr></blockquote>

---

Edit: I have a picture of it in my MWT pictures:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/johnfk/PhotoAlbum5.html"; target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/johnfk/PhotoAlbum5.html</a>;

moogs · March 26, 2002 3:51PM

Can you do professional quality B&W images with the seven ink printer or no? I would think not based on the fact that there is in effect one Black and one Grey per paper type but who knows. Worth asking...I had heard Epson was working on a professional B&W printer, although this could be a hoax as there isn't likely a big enough market demand for one.

Also, does that thing support larger paper sizes than the 2000P? Hard to tell from the photo. The web site is in Japanese and there's an "A3" item on the description...man it would be SWEET if Epson finally yanked its head out and made a printer that could do up to 16x20 to replace the 3000.

[ 03-26-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ? ]

neutrino23 · March 27, 2002 12:53AM

I'm not a professional photographer so I can't really comment on the quality of the B&W prints. They do claim that the combination of grey and black inks makes for finer gradations.

We actually bought this printer yesterday but haven't had much chance to try it yet. The store clerk pointed out to me that it uses slightly different papers than the previous printers. I tried one image on superfine paper but it came out muddy. The OS X driver gives you the option of selecting a superfine2 type paper so maybe that is different.

As with the PM-3300C and the PM-3500C this printer takes up to what they call A3-nobi paper. This is A3 size paper with about a 2cm border. It allows you to print A3 size with the registration marks. Roughly that is 12 x 17 inches. It will also print banners, not sure how long. It also came with holders for roll paper. The paper cutter is optional.

moogs · March 27, 2002 5:06AM

So wait, this thing can't do 13x19 like the 1280 / 2000P? That seems a bit odd. Maybe the US/UK versions will handle different paper sizes - Super A3 would seem logical given all the pre-cut premium papers they sell. Any evidence the paper holder / trays extend beyond the 13" dimension...as in 3" beyond? I would pay a grand for the thing if it did 16x20....

If you're are able to, try to print a B&W image (even a small one like 6x9) with a large range of tonalities and see how it comes out. Mostly I'm interested to see if it produces color casts like the 2000P does without corrected color profiling.

Thanks in advance btw, for the great info you're providing.

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ? ]

neutrino23 · March 27, 2002 5:28AM

[quote]Originally posted by Moogs ?:

So wait, this thing can't do 13x19 like the 1280 / 2000P?

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ? ]<hr></blockquote>

If you drag the paper guide all the way over it will fit a maximum width paper of about 334mm. The manual says something about this as well. That is a bit more than 13 inches. A3 is a little smaller than that. I have to travel a bit now so we probably won't really start figuring this out till next week.

The sample pictures in the store were fantastic. If we can get close to that I'll be thrilled.

moogs · March 27, 2002 5:55AM

Cool. Sounds like a great printer...have safe travels and let us know how things turn out once you start using it.

jaddie · March 27, 2002 1:35PM

Dear neutrino

Thank you for the information.

Sincerely,

Jaddie

johnpaul191 · March 28, 2002 7:49AM

any word when they will make it to the USA? any idea of street price? Epson US site no help... argh.... i just bought a 1280 (not opened yet) that JUST showed up....... should i be sending it back?

thanks, johnpaul

jaddie · March 28, 2002 8:52AM

Dear JOHNPAUL

I probably would send back the 1280. The 1280 is an outstanding printer, and may end up being much less expensive than the new Epson printer, but the new Epson printer has a higher vertical resolution (1440 instead of 720), seven inks, FireWire, direct-to-CD printing, and a built-in paper cutter. But if the new Epson printer ends up with a US street price of $800, you may wish youd kept the 1280.

Sincerely,

Jaddie

moogs · March 28, 2002 9:37AM

My guess is it will be at least $700...probably we'll see early this summer, but who knows for sure. I don't recall exactly how long it was before the 1280 showed up here, after it was released in the UK. Month or two at least.

johnpaul191 · March 28, 2002 10:04AM

[quote]Originally posted by Moogs ?:

My guess is it will be at least $700...probably we'll see early this summer, but who knows for sure. I don't recall exactly how long it was before the 1280 showed up here, after it was released in the UK. Month or two at least.<hr></blockquote>

yeah, i think i'll just stick with it..... i actually tried to purchase it March 8th from amazon, ("ships in 24 hours" my foot), and it took till yesterday (March 27th) to show up..... i got it because i gave up on MacOSX drivers for my 1160 and had sold it off on Ebay. if it's true the new wide format printer can only go to 12" wide as opposed to 13", then it won't help me anyway (my consolation? heh)... so in that sense i guess i'm set. thanks for the quick replies....

grrr epson grrrrr!

jasonpp · March 28, 2002 10:12AM

A3 is double A4 which is double A5 etc etc.. it's a MUCH better way of paper size management than crappy North American letter an legal. The Ax protocol is a fibinacci (sp?) system, mathematicaly beutiful, and there's much less paper waste.

|------||------|

| || a4 |

| || |

| a3 ||------|

| || a4 |

| || |

|------||------

neutrino23 · March 28, 2002 10:58AM

[quote]Originally posted by Jaddie:

Dear JOHNPAUL

I probably would send back the 1280. The 1280 is an outstanding printer, and may end up being much less expensive than the new Epson printer, but the new Epson printer has a higher vertical resolution (1440 instead of 720), seven inks, FireWire, direct-to-CD printing, and a built-in paper cutter. But if the new Epson printer ends up with a US street price of $800, you may wish youd kept the 1280.

Sincerely,

Jaddie<hr></blockquote>

The paper cutter is optional.

When I talk about printer models with the Epson US guys at their booth at MacWorld they say that Epson US builds different printers than those that get sold in the US. Epson Japan transfers the technology to them and they localize it for the US. Therefore, I would expect a similar printer soon in the US but maybe with slightly different options or specs.

moogs · March 28, 2002 3:14PM

Jason:

So A4 is roughly twice the size of the Super A3 papers that Epson sells pre-cut? I guess to do 16x20 that size would be a prerequisite...although it would certainly be overkill. Better suited to 20x24 prints.

little cuss · March 29, 2002 10:02PM

there are many discussions about epson printers here...

<a href="http://www.photo.net"; target="_blank">www.photo.net</a>

the archives are extensive.... so use the search function...

a word of caution (the many topics of this debate are too much to mention here), in short, the inksets used with epson's p-line (6 and 7 color) suffer from outgassing problems(unstable when in contact with ozone gasses). a friend at work bought the 870 and the prints it made color-shifted in a matter of days (to aide the untrained eye, make side-by-side comparisons to a freshly printed dupe). he then switched to a recommended paper(at the behest of epson), but still found marked color-shifting, this time after a few weeks.

you'll find 3rd party manufacturers offering monochrome dye sets for dedicated black and white printing too... tho' i have no idea if they suffer from the same archival problems. i would imagine they do.

good luck,

cuss

[ 03-29-2002: Message edited by: little cuss ]

neutrino23 · March 30, 2002 2:52AM

[quote]Originally posted by little cuss:

...

a word of caution (the many topics of this debate are too much to mention here), in short, the inksets used with epson's p-line (6 and 7 color) suffer from outgassing problems(unstable when in contact with ozone gasses). a friend at work bought the 870 and the prints it made color-shifted in a matter of days (to aide the untrained eye, make side-by-side comparisons to a freshly printed dupe). ...

cuss

[ 03-29-2002: Message edited by: little cuss ]<hr></blockquote>

I'm not making a claim for them but the inks in the PM-4000PX seem to be different. Epson says they are pigments, not dyes. Also, according the poster they put up in the store the pigments are coated in a clear, protective cover of some sort. They have a graphic of these little pigment balls laying on paper as opposed to the rough shaped flakes of whatever used in other inks. The brochure says something about the prints lasting 75 years. (sorry, my ability to read Japanese is limited).

jobes · March 30, 2002 11:00AM

[quote]Originally posted by Moogs ?:

Jason:

So A4 is roughly twice the size of the Super A3 papers that Epson sells pre-cut? I guess to do 16x20 that size would be a prerequisite...although it would certainly be overkill. Better suited to 20x24 prints.<hr></blockquote>

Nope. I think you've got confused by the plethora of information about paper. The ISO paper sizes are based a divisible formula. Here's a good <a href="http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-paper.html"; target="_blank">link</a> about the math behind it. The scheme works well because you know if you have a sheet of A4 @ 297x210mm, dividing it in half will produce 2 sheets of A5 ... and so on. I'm not sure if this is based on the golden ratio, but it is a well proportioned and logical metric system.

So A4 is actually half the size of A3; and A4 is the default paper size for most sheetfeeders and printers outside of the USA. OS X doesn't seem to recognise this though

although I recently found a <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/redir.fcgi/kind=1&db=mac&id=12554/papersize.dmg.gz"; target="_blank">free haxie</a> which addresses this.

As for Super A3 or SRA3, well that's untrimmed (320x450mm) to facilitate bleed. Great for studio comps, layouts and suchlike ... if this new Epson can output to this size at photo res I'll be very impressed, and it'll earn its place in many studios

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: jobes ]

moogs · March 30, 2002 12:13PM

Cuss:

There are no ozone vaporization issues related to Epson's pigment-based inks (anything used on the x500 series). As for the dye-based inks, that problem was limited to the 870 and 1270 and since then any new printers using dye-based inks are using a different formula...so basically, anything that's been bought over the last several months or anything bought going forward will not have this problem AFAIK.

little cuss · April 1, 2002 4:36PM

i only know what my pals on photonet say... one with a 2kp. color-fastness is still an issue. as far as the 4kpx? search me, but i wouldn't take epson's word on it. when the 870,1270 came out, epson claimed archival properties and then again with the 90 series... when the 2kp came out, they claimed 200 years with the newest 'type a' pigment-based inks. so far, the same orange-shift is happening with the 2kp, (so much so that epson had to alter the cyan ink to compensate for the expected shift) and sadly, in some instances, as fast as the old inksets. the 2kp has a metamerazation problem that the earlier models don't(pigment based inks perform poorly in slightly humid conditions) and is a lousy performer for black and white printing (many agree to stick with the 70 series and 3rd party quad tones for b&w) some third party ink manus claim there are magic-bullet combos when piggy-based inks are used in congress with certain papers... but all are guesses(and to this point, all have been gross overestimates). so, warn your clients.

it's no biggie, lots of photo materials are time-sensitive. kodak warns about the longevity of their chromogenic dye-based media... and if you've ever seen their ra-based ektamax b&w paper, you'll understand color-shifting a lot better. i swear it happens so fast, you can literally watch it shift in real time. this is where i have a problem with epson... they continue to maintain that their prints will last ... when they don't... so at least with the big yellow satan, they'll disclaim it so you know to expect pissed off clients.

good luck with that, rilly

cuss

Who Has Information On Epson?s New Photo Printers?

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