Early 2021 Apple Silicon iMac said to have 'A14T' processor

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 85
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    There’s a lot of confusion by what’s meant by a “new” series of chips just for Macs, which is what Apple said they were doing.

    intel and AMD both make a large number of chips. They come in what’s called “families”. Each of these families is different. Some are low poe]wer, low performance and some are high power, high performance. Some have built-in GPUs, and some don’t. But despite the cost differences of about $60 on the low end to almost $20,000 on the highest, they are all x86 based chips.

    the way some of you are writing here, you don’t seem to understand that Apple can have all of its chips based on the same cores, but be different chips. Neither AMD or Intel label their chips with x86 in the name of the particular chip itself. But they’re all x86 chips. Apple will be the same. These are not A14 chips and more than they were A6 chips. That’s just the generational indicator, and that’s how Apple labels it’s chips. So there can easily be four or even five A14 chips out there, all having different features. Don’t get caught up by the fact that they may all be called A14 something or other.
    foregoneconclusionMplsPtmayronnroundaboutnowfastasleepcornchipchiamobirdAlex1N
  • Reply 22 of 85
    melgross said: So there can easily be four or even five A14 chips out there, all having different features. Don’t get caught up by the fact that they may all be called A14 something or other.
    At the very least, you would expect higher clock speeds for an SoC variant that's in a laptop sized enclosure. 
    ronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 85
    MacPro said:
    georgie01 said:
    I wonder what the upgrade cycle will be for Macs with Apple processors, and how those processors will compare to mobile processors. If a Mac uses an A14 variant and then an iPhone/iPad is upgraded to an A15, will the Macs then be slower than iPhones and some Mac users feel the need to upgrade every year to have the fastest available? What Mac user is going to feel good about their Mac being slower than the next iPhone that comes out?

    Or will the Mac variants of the processors be faster enough that an iPhone/iPad using next generation will still be slower?
    My guess is they will be pretty much in lockstep although the various product line releases will most likely stay on the same staggered timeline as now.
    I would be willing to bet that the performance of AS based Macs will be significantly higher than the version used in iPhones, just based on the fact that they’ll have far more room to push the chips (more power, ram, cooling, etc.).  It’s also unlikely that Apple will use the same chip naming structure for Macs, in part so that people don’t think that one is the same as the other.
    ronnrazorpitwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 85
    I, for one, am not happy about this.  Moving away from x86 to something (anything) else will break sooooo much.  All of a sudden the ability to run Windows (at CPU speed) goes away, all the programs which rely on Wine stop working (or at least working well).  I liked the 6502 (and variants).  I liked the 68K series.  I liked the PPC series.  I (eventually) liked the x86 series.  But this change...  I just don't feel good about it.  That said, perhaps the Apple CPUs will be fast enough to make emulation tolerable (unlike the x86 emulators for the PPC!)...  Perhaps.
  • Reply 25 of 85
    Really curious to see what a desktop Apple Silicon CPU can do. This is the first time Apple will attempt a full powered processor. Will it have chiplets? Will it have 16 or more cores?
    The GPU in the new iMac is interesting as well. Can it beat the RX 5700XT in the current iMac or the Big Navi GPUs AMD is about to announce?
  • Reply 26 of 85
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,695member
    Hopefully, they have one more full refresh on X86. At the rate this will take to have any impression on me moving forward it'll be 2023.
    Based on what?
    cornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 85
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,695member
    dewme said:
    I am so looking forward to the second generation of Apple Silicon Macs. They will be amazing.
    What's gonna be wrong with the first generation of Apple Silicon Macs?
    aderutterronnchiawatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 85
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,092member
    I just received my 2020 iMac (10-core i9, 8TB, 128GB RAM) and knowing it will by my last Intel-based Mac, I'm actually excited to see what Apple does with ARM-based Macs.  I know that when I'm ready to upgrade to whatever next iMac 5+ years down the road, Apple will have their ARM Macs fully-baked, as well as getting a good feel to how the software-side of that equation works out.

    Pretty exciting stuff really!

    I'm curious if the new iMacs will be essentially a large iPad and what user-expandable options there will be - if any.  Knowing how Apple rips-off consumers with the price of RAM, if Apple removes that option for iMacs, it will really cause a village revolt.
    edited October 2020 Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 85
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,241member
    I know Apple has been moving towards an almost sealed computer enclosure for some time but have to wonder if they will continue this process or, hopefully, allow the use of SoC sockets at least in the beginning so newer, faster, more powerful SoCs can be added to what might be a basic logic board that only contains IO, WiFi, and ??? circuits and logic chips. If almost everything of value is in/on the SoC then making this component removal, interchangeable and able to be secured in a safe when not in use would be an interesting design change, especially for corporate and government users but also for the rest of us.

    Could this even be done? Looking at the iPhone 12, the SoC takes up a large portion of one side of the logic board while all the other logic chips are associated with support features. I could see many of these staying reasonably consistent on future Macs. Apple could include important chips on the same SoC socket (or two) thereby allowing for updates without replacing everything.


    razorpitAlex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 85
    jdb8167jdb8167 Posts: 626member
    h4y3s said:
    A silicon atom is only about 0.21 nm, so a 5nm process might be the limit for a while!
    Nah. TSMC already has put a press release that they will have early 2 nm ready in 2024. 

    ronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 85
    jdb8167 said:
    h4y3s said:
    A silicon atom is only about 0.21 nm, so a 5nm process might be the limit for a while!
    Nah. TSMC already has put a press release that they will have early 2 nm ready in 2024. 

    As long as it does not turn out to be vaporware.  ;-)
    melgross
  • Reply 32 of 85
    jdb8167jdb8167 Posts: 626member
    jdb8167 said:
    h4y3s said:
    A silicon atom is only about 0.21 nm, so a 5nm process might be the limit for a while!
    Nah. TSMC already has put a press release that they will have early 2 nm ready in 2024. 

    As long as it does not turn out to be vaporware.  ;-)
    Yeah I misstated the origin of that story. It isn’t a press release it is from “reports”. Still seems likely to be true though. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 85
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,911member
    I, for one, am not happy about this.  Moving away from x86 to something (anything) else will break sooooo much.  All of a sudden the ability to run Windows (at CPU speed) goes away, all the programs which rely on Wine stop working (or at least working well).  I liked the 6502 (and variants).  I liked the 68K series.  I liked the PPC series.  I (eventually) liked the x86 series.  But this change...  I just don't feel good about it.  That said, perhaps the Apple CPUs will be fast enough to make emulation tolerable (unlike the x86 emulators for the PPC!)...  Perhaps.
    The transition will not happen overnight, but if you're dependent on Windows emulation or bootcamp then I would get a new machine now or within the next year. Rosetta quite good when Apple switched from PPC to intel, so they have experience with emulation. Most people expect things to go smoothly but I'm sure there will be some hiccoughs. 

    Really curious to see what a desktop Apple Silicon CPU can do. This is the first time Apple will attempt a full powered processor. Will it have chiplets? Will it have 16 or more cores?
    The GPU in the new iMac is interesting as well. Can it beat the RX 5700XT in the current iMac or the Big Navi GPUs AMD is about to announce?
    Me, too. The A-series chips have been quite impressive in the iPads; honestly, a significant number of consumers could have a laptop with a straight A13 or A14 and be totally happy with the performance. 
    Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 85
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,258member
    If you look at this story just right, it kind of reads as if Apple will have a discrete GPU. Or at least -- a GPU that is not integrated into the same silicon die as the CPU as is currently the case with their A-SOCs. 

    I'd be a little surprised if Apple were to make a fully discrete GPU in the sense of a PCIe card (as is the case with PCs). I doubt they have the volume to justify that investment. Also, I suspect they'd hate to lose the low latency and shared memory space afforded by integration. 

    However, I could see them going a chiplet route, in which they have a single CPU chiplet design, a single GPU chiplet design, and then they vary how many chiplets are combined into a single "SOC" for different Macs.  
    tmayAlex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 85
    entropys said:
    Must admit I am surprised at the separate GPU rumour.
    That's definitely weird, but if true it answers a lot of questions… larger Macbook Pros in the past were differentiated by discrete GPUs, this would explain how the 13" and 16" lines can continue to be differentiated… also provides a solution for external GPUs and Mac Pros, where Radeon cards aren't going to work anymore.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 85
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,123member
    h4y3s said:
    A silicon atom is only about 0.21 nm, so a 5nm process might be the limit for a while!
    Based on what?  The fact that the two numbers seem close together?

    3nm chips have already been produced, and TSMC, Intel, and Samsung have plants at various stages of construction.  There are also plans for 2 nm production within a few years. 
    edited October 2020 Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 85
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,123member

    xsmi said:
    Apple said at their keynote that the Mac chips would be designed from the ground up with the Mac in mind. Wouldn’t that preclude them using a variant of iPhone/iPad chips? 
    Not logically, no. 
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 85
    MplsP said:. 
    Me, too. The A-series chips have been quite impressive in the iPads; honestly, a significant number of consumers could have a laptop with a straight A13 or A14 and be totally happy with the performance. 
    Yep. My son uses my 7 year old MBP while low-level gaming with his mates on their wondows laptops and the MBP makes the newer windows laptops look silly. So yes, an A14 based laptop would be a dream machine for many, especially non-professionals.

    The new iPad Air 4 performs far better than my 6 year old i7 iMac according to geekbench scores.
    I suspect an A14X will be kind of equivalent to a 2019 i9 iMac (better in single core and a bit slower in multi core) so a 27” iMac should be possible with an A14T as it will have more cores. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 85
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,335member
    sflocal said:
    I just received my 2020 iMac (10-core i9, 8TB, 128GB RAM) and knowing it will by my last Intel-based Mac, I'm actually excited to see what Apple does with ARM-based Macs.  I know that when I'm ready to upgrade to whatever next iMac 5+ years down the road, Apple will have their ARM Macs fully-baked, as well as getting a good feel to how the software-side of that equation works out.

    Pretty exciting stuff really!

    I'm curious if the new iMacs will be essentially a large iPad and what user-expandable options there will be - if any.  Knowing how Apple rips-off consumers with the price of RAM, if Apple removes that option for iMacs, it will really cause a village revolt.
    Wow, that’s a beast of a machine that should present no compromise computing for at least 5-10 years. My main machine is a late 2012 iMac 27” with the fastest i7 they offered at the time, 32 GB RAM, 3 TB fusion drive, and an extra 27” monitor. It’s 8 years old but runs perfectly and still meets all my VM needs with Windows 10 and Linux virtual machines, Xcode, Visual Studio, Office 365, all of the Affinity apps, and with over 150 GB of media. 

    From a raw computing perspective my 8 year old iMac lacks nothing that impacts me. The only negative is lack of 4K/5K display capabilities, lack of all SSD storage, and Apple’s decision to drop support for Big Sur for this machine. It’s not really showing any obvious signs of slowing down, but maybe it’s me who is slowing down. 

    If I bought the iMac that you bought it very well might be my last traditional personal computer - ever. At some point I’m sure an iPad will suffice for everything I need. 

    So yeah, your newly purchased Intel iMac is starting to sound very attractive to me. 
    edited October 2020 Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 85
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,564member
    I, for one, am not happy about this.  Moving away from x86 to something (anything) else will break sooooo much.  All of a sudden the ability to run Windows (at CPU speed) goes away, all the programs which rely on Wine stop working (or at least working well).  I liked the 6502 (and variants).  I liked the 68K series.  I liked the PPC series.  I (eventually) liked the x86 series.  But this change...  I just don't feel good about it.  That said, perhaps the Apple CPUs will be fast enough to make emulation tolerable (unlike the x86 emulators for the PPC!)...  Perhaps.
    Apple actually demonstrated its Rosetta 2 emulation for a Windows x86 3D game (Shadow of the Tomb Raider) in its July WWDC conference. Did you see it? Wasn't it fast enough for you? https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/hdzdo8/shadow_of_the_tomb_raider_running_on_rosetta_2/ <--

    I'm also wondering if you are assuming that Microsoft has no intention to introduce a native Apple Silicon version of Windows. Would that mitigate your concern, since Windows apps would be able to recompile their apps to Apple Silicon version of Windows, thereby providing "native" support. Microsoft's official line on future OSs for Apple is "we have nothing more to say at this time." To me, that's exciting, as they are still considering it.
    ronnrazorpitwatto_cobra
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