Cough analysis app could detect COVID-19 by sound alone

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 46
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,466administrator
    This is an utter joke.  CDC says most people have 2.6 preexisting conditions who die, they don’t die from SARS-Cov2.  The cough could be from many other things.  
    Yes, this sounds like unsupportable nonsense.
    If I had died from my COVID battle earlier this year, my "pre-existing conditions" on my death certificate would have been "ionizing radiation exposure" and "Potential asbestos exposure," both from more than 20 years ago. Another pair of pre-existing conditions that would have been listed on my death certificate would have been "military vaccinations" and "steel plate in the left leg" from 1996. both unrelated. A fifth, depending on ICD-9 or ICD-10 is "ex-Submariner" which ended in 1999.

    So, four or five "pre-existing conditions," zero of which would have had to do with COVID.

    Funnily, if I got hit by a car tomorrow, four or five would be on my death certificate as pre-existing conditions, despite the car being what did me in. No matter what finally kills me, be it being decapitated in a sword battle in a warehouse with lightning all around, or just keeling over from one too many Old Bay potato chips, all these things will be on my death certificate.

    Other common pre-existing conditions include such winners as "ever pregnant," "ever had an ear infection," "ever had a broken bone," "ex-smoker" and so many more. Ever had your tonsils out? That counts. So does an appendix removal, a vasectomy, a tubal ligation, and so, so much more. All counted by the CDC.

    Both of you are misinterpreting what the CDC said by accident, not having read the original materials and going by what you've heard, or by believing what a venue has told you because I'd rather not consider the ramifications of either of you willfully misinterpreting what the study says. 

    Dial it back a bit. There's a lot in this thread that is over the commenting guidelines, including the use of the term "fake news" or a derivative.

    AI will not be your political battleground.
    I almost died from the regular flu last year and I personally know multiple people who’ve died from COVID. The fact is, people with severe underlying conditions are the ones most at risk. 99+% people suffer few or mild effects and fully recover. COVID is not the “end of the world” virus it has been portrayed as in the media and the subject itself is political, no matter how much that might be disputed.
    I agree it is not an "end of the world" virus. That said, both Dan Dilger and I can say from personal experience that you, or anybody reading this, do not want it. It is not a regular flu, it is very nearly four times more deadly than the flu is -- and yes, the CDC is saying this.

    However, here in the forums, we'll save percentages of few or mild effects and recoveries for about another year. What we're not going to do is say "oh, something else not COVID killed these folks" because that's 100% wrong, and driven by a particular aspect of media.

    Folks live with asthma, COPD and whatnot, and it is absolutely COVID that is killing them. Doctors aren't getting paid more for COVID cases, or saying that a patient has died from it. While you didn't say that yourself, that has come up in this thread, and it is 100% bogus and should never have been said. By anyone.

    For what it's worth, COVID already has an ICD-10 code for "pre-existing condition" and the CDC, which has been invoked several times in this thread, calls it the third biggest killer in the US this year.
    edited November 2020 forgot usernamejony0
  • Reply 22 of 46
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    This is an utter joke.  CDC says most people have 2.6 preexisting conditions who die, they don’t die from SARS-Cov2.  The cough could be from many other things.  
    Yes, this sounds like unsupportable nonsense.
    If I had died from my COVID battle earlier this year, my "pre-existing conditions" on my death certificate would have been "ionizing radiation exposure" and "Potential asbestos exposure," both from more than 20 years ago. Another pair of pre-existing conditions that would have been listed on my death certificate would have been "military vaccinations" and "steel plate in the left leg" from 1996. both unrelated. A fifth, depending on ICD-9 or ICD-10 is "ex-Submariner" which ended in 1999.

    So, four or five "pre-existing conditions," zero of which would have had to do with COVID.

    Funnily, if I got hit by a car tomorrow, four or five would be on my death certificate as pre-existing conditions, despite the car being what did me in. No matter what finally kills me, be it being decapitated in a sword battle in a warehouse with lightning all around, or just keeling over from one too many Old Bay potato chips, all these things will be on my death certificate.

    Other common pre-existing conditions include such winners as "ever pregnant," "ever had an ear infection," "ever had a broken bone," "ex-smoker" and so many more. Ever had your tonsils out? That counts. So does an appendix removal, a vasectomy, a tubal ligation, and so, so much more. All counted by the CDC.

    Both of you are misinterpreting what the CDC said by accident, not having read the original materials and going by what you've heard, or by believing what a venue has told you because I'd rather not consider the ramifications of either of you willfully misinterpreting what the study says. 

    Dial it back a bit. There's a lot in this thread that is over the commenting guidelines, including the use of the term "fake news" or a derivative.

    AI will not be your political battleground.
    I almost died from the regular flu last year and I personally know multiple people who’ve died from COVID. The fact is, people with severe underlying conditions are the ones most at risk. 99+% people suffer few or mild effects and fully recover. COVID is not the “end of the world” virus it has been portrayed as in the media and the subject itself is political, no matter how much that might be disputed.

    No, the "subject itself" is not political, the virus has been politicized for political reasons and so politicians and their pundits have been spinning and fabricating the truth for their own political gain.

    We should not only have listened to the scientists like other countries did but provided them with resources they needed to do their jobs well.   Like everything else in this country (except the military), the public health agencies have been stripped of funding and influence over the past 20 years.
    forgot usernameStrangeDaysjony0
  • Reply 23 of 46
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,466administrator
    cat52 said:
    Mike Wuerthele said:

    However, here in the forums, we'll save percentages of few or mild effects and recoveries for about another year. What we're not going to do is say "oh, something else not COVID killed these folks" because that's 100% wrong, and driven by a particular aspect of media.

    Folks live with asthma, COPD and whatnot, and it is absolutely COVID that is killing them. Doctors aren't getting paid more for COVID cases, or saying that a patient has died from it. While you didn't say that yourself, that has come up in this thread, and it is 100% bogus and should never have been said. By anyone.

    With all due respect, what you state above is simply not true.

    2020 is currently on pace to be an exceedingly normal year as far as the total number of fatalities are concerned.  However, we've been told that more than 200,000 people have died from covid in the US.  So how do you square those two contradictory data points?

    Well turns out, people have been dying far less this year from heart disease, pneumonia, and what in other years would be considered normal causes of death, at least as far as the official statistics are concerned.  Does that sound a little fishy to you?  Well it should, as to make the numbers work it appears as if heart disease fatalities etc have been rebranded as covid deaths.  Numbers don't lie, and so you can't have it both ways.


    Then this past July a man in his 20's down in Orlando died on the freeway in a motorcycle accident.  Official cause of death though?  Yep, you guessed it, covid.

    After the local media caught wind of the story though, the Orange County Department of Health said the case had been "reviewed" and the motorcyclist's death removed from the state's official covid tally.  But what if the local media had never reported on the story??

    Before you argue the above example is a mere anomaly, there have been plenty of doctors who have courageously stepped forward this year to say this sort of thing goes on all the time.  Unfortunately though, these whistleblower interviews have a habit of disappearing pretty fast from YouTube, so I'm unable to provide any links which still work.


    Lastly I take issue with your strident attitude.  To say someone is "100% wrong", or something is "100% bogus", are not the sort of comments someone who no doubt prides themselves on their reasonableness would make.  To make such claims therefore is to mimic the extreme fringe who you claim to be standing against.

    Lest I remind you, the whole point of a discussion forum is to entertain opposing points of view so that hopefully a stronger consensus can emerge.

    So I would suggest you go a little lighter before reaching into your back pocket for the censor's red pen.
    With all due respect, what you state above is simply not true. I don't know where you're getting "normal" deaths in 2020, because where you're getting your numbers from is blowing smoke up your ass. The CDC absolutely disagrees with you in regards to deaths this year.

    The blue bars on the graph below are reported deaths, the light blue is estimated, as the counts are not completely in. It takes about eight weeks for a full tally as data sources report. A red + on the graph is as the CDC says - observed count above threshold.

    Not shockingly, the curve of the "excess deaths" roughly matches the shape of the curve of a graph of US deaths from COVID. There are zero reasonable explanations for what this is, beyond COVID.

    So no, we're not having a "normal" year. Not even close. Indisputably not even close.

    In regards to your motorcyclist, medical billing and filing being as byzantine as it is (see the previous page about pre-existing conditions) I'm sure that there are misfilings. I'm also sure that there are folks that have died that aren't listed as COVID. In the motorcyclist's case, it was a swap in the coding. Instead of MVT doing him in, MVT was listed as a comorbidity with COVID as a primary. Doesn't mean the guy didn't have it, it just meant that that particular thing didn't kill him.

    While I certainly won't dispute that folks with cardiac or respiratory conditions are more impacted by the disease, in regards to your other claim, folks are "dying less" from heart disease and the like as the primary vector, because COVID looks to be getting them first. We'll be seeing lower deaths even after COVID, because more per annum will have died this and next year from it, as opposed to living 1, 10, or 20 more years with it.

    And now, on to the graph. If COVID wasn't a big deal, the curve of the graph and the magnitude of the data points would be the same as in the spring and summer of 2019. It isn't. 

    Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm



    And I don't care about your taking issue with my strident attitude. While you're being reasonable, considering that a great many folks feel like facts are optional, their opinions are the only thing that matters, and rules don't need to be followed, I will continue to be strident. You're right, numbers don't lie, what I have posted here is the ultimate authority on deaths in the US, unfiltered by a venue that may have an angle to sell you, so it seems like some stridency is in order from somebody who doesn't make a dime (and probably loses one) from providing you the actual data, straight from the source.

    Do not lecture me on the point of a discussion forum, which I have labored to keep open. AI is not a hobby, and as I've discussed, it is a money pit. But, I like all of you folks -- especially the ones that follow the rules, and keep things reasonably calm.

    In regards to that red pen, nobody's been moderated in this thread except one conspiracy theorist. And, it will be wielded as the moderating team sees fit.
    edited November 2020 StrangeDayspeteoGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 24 of 46
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,466administrator
    cat52 said:
    Mike Wuerthele said:

    In regards to your motorcyclist, medical billing and filing being as byzantine as it is (see the previous page about pre-existing conditions) I'm sure that there are misfilings. I'm also sure that there are folks that have died that aren't listed as COVID. In the motorcyclist's case, it was a swap in the coding. Instead of MVT doing him in, MVT was listed as a comorbidity with COVID as a primary. Doesn't mean the guy didn't have it, it just meant that that particular thing didn't kill him.

    And I don't care about your taking issue with my strident attitude. While you're being reasonable, considering that a great many folks feel like facts are optional, their opinions are the only thing that matters, and rules don't need to be followed, I will continue to be strident. You're right, numbers don't lie, what I have posted here is the ultimate authority on deaths in the US, unfiltered by a venue that may have an angle to sell you.

    Do not lecture me on the point of a discussion forum, which I have labored to keep open.

    Mike, I enjoyed your reply.....   ;)

    So about a month ago someone had downloaded the CDC data into Excel and then did an analysis of the mortality numbers of which I summarized in my post.  Unfortunately I didn't bookmark where I saw this breakdown but if I can find it again I'll provide an update.

    However what happened with the motorcyclist down in FL is pretty cut and dry.  If you crash your motorcycle at 75mph it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what the cause of death is, so for the FL medical authorities to list such a death as being caused by covid raises a number of red flags.  And I'm surprised you're not aware of any of the doctors who have stepped forward this year to act as whistleblowers, and who have said the covid numbers are being monkeyed with.

    And yes, these doctors have specifically stated that hospitals are in fact being reimbursed at higher rates when the patients are diagnosed as having covid.  I'm not a doctor, I don't work in a hospital, so no, I can't personally verify what they have been saying, however I see no reason for them to be saying such things unless they have inside knowledge and want to get the word out because they are taking a huge personal risk in doing so, as all whistleblowers inevitably do.

    A notable example of the professional risk these whistleblowers face is that one of the frontline doctors who held a press conference this past summer, a cardiologist, was summarily fired from her position after speaking out.  Imagine that, a cardiologist, fired, for daring to voice her opinion.  What country is this?

    The group she is a member of is called America's Frontline Doctors, whose website can be found here:

    https://americasfrontlinedoctors.us


    The opening paragraphs on their home page reads as follows:

    American life has fallen casualty to a massive disinformation campaign. We can speculate on how this has happened, and why it has continued, but the purpose of the inaugural White Coat Summit is to empower Americans to stop living in fear. 

    If Americans continue to let so-called experts and media personalities make their decisions, the great American experiment of a Constitutional Republic with Representative Democracy, will cease.


    Strong words indeed.  So are you going to say all these docs are crazy, misinformed, or maybe they just simply read the wrong websites?

    So what I'm advocating for is a more mature and open discussion of covid, because there are quite a few doctors who think we're being gamed.
    My sister in law works at Inova (the local mega hospital chain here near DC) and I can authoritatively say that they aren't being reimbursed at a higher rate for folks with a COVID diagnosis, so take that as you will.

    Zero of the doctors involved in AFD have any infectious disease experience. Immanuel, the most vocal mouthpiece for the group, and who drove that hydrochloroquine press conference this summer, says that "tormenting spirits" are responsible for most of mankind's issues, and that is one of of her more reasonable claims -- yes, they get battier from there. They have an agenda, and they're wrong. Many of the "doctors" there at that conference have no affiliation with the hospitals that they claimed to be from. Doesn't mean that they aren't doctors, but it isn't a good foundation that they're laying.

    Doctors are just that - doctors, with a knowledge focus. They aren't all-knowing gods, and they aren't geniuses. And, for example, a cardiologist isn't an infectious disease expert, any more than because I was a reactor chemist for the Navy, it didn't make me able to drive the boat by association. They are willing and able to say what they want -- but that doesn't mean that they're right, and being doctors doesn't give them any more credence on all health matters than any other joe on the street.

    And, I imagine that the cardiologist got fired for bad professional judgement. I don't think she would have gotten fired had she proclaimed that Hydrox are better than Oreos, but, instead, she so badly wanted to defend POTUS from criticism from the mishandling of COVID, and she wanted to push HCQ so badly, this is where she ended up.

    The mortality numbers are gettable from the link I posted above. I've got to get back to work, November is going to be uncharacteristically busy.
    edited November 2020 StrangeDaysGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 25 of 46
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,233member
    AI in medicine has a great future ahead of it.

    This could be a good example for medicak pre-filtering and giving people a fairly good idea of their COVID status right from their homes.

    It might also make sense for users to be able to record their 'normal' forced coughs and have the AI use that profile to improve the results.

    I hear that 'smell' is also becoming an ever increasing tool in health diagnosis so if the industry could get together and produce a sensor to manage that, it would be a major advance (and not only in health):

    https://www.wired.com/story/quest-to-make-robot-smell-cancer-dog/


  • Reply 26 of 46
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,067member
    This is an utter joke.  CDC says most people have 2.6 preexisting conditions who die, they don’t die from SARS-Cov2.  The cough could be from many other things.  
    No, you're just ignorant. If you have diabetes, then die of cancer, guess what you died of? Cancer. 

    Stop trying to deny science because your party told you to.
    GeorgeBMacjony0
  • Reply 27 of 46
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,067member


    fred1 said:
    Kuyangkoh said:
    But still declared covid by hospital so they get paid.....what a bunch of crap reported 
    Please tell me you don’t still believe that all hospitals get paid more by the government if they report a case as being COVID. This was debunked in April:
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/medicare-hospitals-covid-patients/


    Snopes is HARDLY a reliable site for facts.  Did you read about its founders?  *rolls eyes*
    Wrong. Attacking the leading fact-checking website because it busts your silly narratives is stupidity. 
    jony0
  • Reply 28 of 46
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,067member

    This is an utter joke.  CDC says most people have 2.6 preexisting conditions who die, they don’t die from SARS-Cov2.  The cough could be from many other things.  
    Yes, this sounds like unsupportable nonsense.
    If I had died from my COVID battle earlier this year, my "pre-existing conditions" on my death certificate would have been "ionizing radiation exposure" and "Potential asbestos exposure," both from more than 20 years ago. Another pair of pre-existing conditions that would have been listed on my death certificate would have been "military vaccinations" and "steel plate in the left leg" from 1996. both unrelated. A fifth, depending on ICD-9 or ICD-10 is "ex-Submariner" which ended in 1999.

    So, four or five "pre-existing conditions," zero of which would have had to do with COVID.

    Funnily, if I got hit by a car tomorrow, four or five would be on my death certificate as pre-existing conditions, despite the car being what did me in. No matter what finally kills me, be it being decapitated in a sword battle in a warehouse with lightning all around, or just keeling over from one too many Old Bay potato chips, all these things will be on my death certificate.

    Other common pre-existing conditions include such winners as "ever pregnant," "ever had an ear infection," "ever had a broken bone," "ex-smoker" and so many more. Ever had your tonsils out? That counts. So does an appendix removal, a vasectomy, a tubal ligation, and so, so much more. All counted by the CDC.

    Both of you are misinterpreting what the CDC said by accident, not having read the original materials and going by what you've heard, or by believing what a venue has told you because I'd rather not consider the ramifications of either of you willfully misinterpreting what the study says. 

    Dial it back a bit. There's a lot in this thread that is over the commenting guidelines, including the use of the term "fake news" or a derivative.

    AI will not be your political battleground.
    I almost died from the regular flu last year and I personally know multiple people who’ve died from COVID. The fact is, people with severe underlying conditions are the ones most at risk. 99+% people suffer few or mild effects and fully recover. COVID is not the “end of the world” virus it has been portrayed as in the media and the subject itself is political, no matter how much that might be disputed.
    No one -- NO ONE -- has suggested it's a species-ending event. Quote a legitimate source to the contrary. What has been said is with the 20% hospitalization rate and 1-3.4% mortality rate, it would kill millions more if behavioral protocols were not deployed. You just made up the rest as a straw man. 

    US mortality is currently 2.5%, it's thankfully been trending down from a highs of 3.6% earlier in the year. Mexico is getting hammered and currently almost 10%. John Hopkins University & Medicine's Coronavirus Resource Center is your friend and the go-to source. 

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality


    edited November 2020 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 29 of 46
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,067member
    cat52 said:
    Mike Wuerthele said:

    In regards to your motorcyclist, medical billing and filing being as byzantine as it is (see the previous page about pre-existing conditions) I'm sure that there are misfilings. I'm also sure that there are folks that have died that aren't listed as COVID. In the motorcyclist's case, it was a swap in the coding. Instead of MVT doing him in, MVT was listed as a comorbidity with COVID as a primary. Doesn't mean the guy didn't have it, it just meant that that particular thing didn't kill him.

    And I don't care about your taking issue with my strident attitude. While you're being reasonable, considering that a great many folks feel like facts are optional, their opinions are the only thing that matters, and rules don't need to be followed, I will continue to be strident. You're right, numbers don't lie, what I have posted here is the ultimate authority on deaths in the US, unfiltered by a venue that may have an angle to sell you.

    Do not lecture me on the point of a discussion forum, which I have labored to keep open.

    A notable example of the professional risk these whistleblowers face is that one of the frontline doctors who held a press conference this past summer, a cardiologist, was summarily fired from her position after speaking out.  Imagine that, a cardiologist, fired, for daring to voice her opinion.  What country is this?

    The group she is a member of is called America's Frontline Doctors, whose website can be found here:

    https://americasfrontlinedoctors.us
    OMG, I can't believe you're citing the alien demon sperm voodoo doctor org. What a joke. You've been duped, son. 

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/stella-immanuel-trumps-new-covid-doctor-believes-in-alien-dna-demon-sperm-and-hydroxychloroquine

    ....when the POTUS was treated with the finest socialized medicine system in the world, guess what drug he wasn't prescribed? Hydroxychloroquine. Because it was all bullshit, which you apparently fell for.

    My brother and his wife had COVID19 and had it bad, they required hospitalization for life-saving care. In their 50s, no known conditions. You can't pretend it away.
    edited November 2020 peteo
  • Reply 30 of 46
    peteopeteo Posts: 402member
    "CDC says most people have 2.6 preexisting conditions who die, they don’t die from SARS-Cov2."
    The preexisting conditions make them more susceptible and unable to fully fight the virus and so it has better chance taking hold.
    The preexisting conditions are NOT killing them: https://www.webmd.com/lung/what-does-covid-do-to-your-lungs#2

    edited November 2020 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 31 of 46
    peteopeteo Posts: 402member
    This is an utter joke.  CDC says most people have 2.6 preexisting conditions who die, they don’t die from SARS-Cov2.  The cough could be from many other things.  
    Yes, this sounds like unsupportable nonsense.
    If I had died from my COVID battle earlier this year, my "pre-existing conditions" on my death certificate would have been "ionizing radiation exposure" and "Potential asbestos exposure," both from more than 20 years ago. Another pair of pre-existing conditions that would have been listed on my death certificate would have been "military vaccinations" and "steel plate in the left leg" from 1996. both unrelated. A fifth, depending on ICD-9 or ICD-10 is "ex-Submariner" which ended in 1999.

    So, four or five "pre-existing conditions," zero of which would have had to do with COVID.

    Funnily, if I got hit by a car tomorrow, four or five would be on my death certificate as pre-existing conditions, despite the car being what did me in. No matter what finally kills me, be it being decapitated in a sword battle in a warehouse with lightning all around, or just keeling over from one too many Old Bay potato chips, all these things will be on my death certificate.

    Other common pre-existing conditions include such winners as "ever pregnant," "ever had an ear infection," "ever had a broken bone," "ex-smoker" and so many more. Ever had your tonsils out? That counts. So does an appendix removal, a vasectomy, a tubal ligation, and so, so much more. All counted by the CDC.

    Both of you are misinterpreting what the CDC said by accident, not having read the original materials and going by what you've heard, or by believing what a venue has told you because I'd rather not consider the ramifications of either of you willfully misinterpreting what the study says. 

    Dial it back a bit. There's a lot in this thread that is over the commenting guidelines, including the use of the term "fake news" or a derivative.

    AI will not be your political battleground.
    I almost died from the regular flu last year and I personally know multiple people who’ve died from COVID. The fact is, people with severe underlying conditions are the ones most at risk. 99+% people suffer few or mild effects and fully recover. COVID is not the “end of the world” virus it has been portrayed as in the media and the subject itself is political, no matter how much that might be disputed.
    Tell that to the 200k+ who have died and 1000+ day who continue to die now. The problem is most people do NOT KNOW how susceptible they are to the virus. Also you conveniently leave out people who have not died but still have have issues due to the virus, probably for the rest of their lives.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02598-6

    This virus is no joke. Your devaluation of it does not help anyone

    edited November 2020 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 32 of 46

    This is an utter joke.  CDC says most people have 2.6 preexisting conditions who die, they don’t die from SARS-Cov2.  The cough could be from many other things.  
    Yes, this sounds like unsupportable nonsense.
    If I had died from my COVID battle earlier this year, my "pre-existing conditions" on my death certificate would have been "ionizing radiation exposure" and "Potential asbestos exposure," both from more than 20 years ago. Another pair of pre-existing conditions that would have been listed on my death certificate would have been "military vaccinations" and "steel plate in the left leg" from 1996. both unrelated. A fifth, depending on ICD-9 or ICD-10 is "ex-Submariner" which ended in 1999.

    So, four or five "pre-existing conditions," zero of which would have had to do with COVID.

    Funnily, if I got hit by a car tomorrow, four or five would be on my death certificate as pre-existing conditions, despite the car being what did me in. No matter what finally kills me, be it being decapitated in a sword battle in a warehouse with lightning all around, or just keeling over from one too many Old Bay potato chips, all these things will be on my death certificate.

    Other common pre-existing conditions include such winners as "ever pregnant," "ever had an ear infection," "ever had a broken bone," "ex-smoker" and so many more. Ever had your tonsils out? That counts. So does an appendix removal, a vasectomy, a tubal ligation, and so, so much more. All counted by the CDC.

    Both of you are misinterpreting what the CDC said by accident, not having read the original materials and going by what you've heard, or by believing what a venue has told you because I'd rather not consider the ramifications of either of you willfully misinterpreting what the study says. 

    Dial it back a bit. There's a lot in this thread that is over the commenting guidelines, including the use of the term "fake news" or a derivative.

    AI will not be your political battleground.
    I almost died from the regular flu last year and I personally know multiple people who’ve died from COVID. The fact is, people with severe underlying conditions are the ones most at risk. 99+% people suffer few or mild effects and fully recover. COVID is not the “end of the world” virus it has been portrayed as in the media and the subject itself is political, no matter how much that might be disputed.
    No one -- NO ONE -- has suggested it's a species-ending event. Quote a legitimate source to the contrary. What has been said is with the 20% hospitalization rate and 1-3.4% mortality rate, it would kill millions more if behavioral protocols were not deployed. You just made up the rest as a straw man. 

    US mortality is currently 2.5%, it's thankfully been trending down from a highs of 3.6% earlier in the year. Mexico is getting hammered and currently almost 10%. John Hopkins University & Medicine's Coronavirus Resource Center is your friend and the go-to source. 

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality


    Buddy, tune into CNN sometime and you’ll experience a tsunami of falsehoods that far exceeds my bit of mild exaggeration for effect.
    cat52
  • Reply 33 of 46
    peteo said:
    This is an utter joke.  CDC says most people have 2.6 preexisting conditions who die, they don’t die from SARS-Cov2.  The cough could be from many other things.  
    Yes, this sounds like unsupportable nonsense.
    If I had died from my COVID battle earlier this year, my "pre-existing conditions" on my death certificate would have been "ionizing radiation exposure" and "Potential asbestos exposure," both from more than 20 years ago. Another pair of pre-existing conditions that would have been listed on my death certificate would have been "military vaccinations" and "steel plate in the left leg" from 1996. both unrelated. A fifth, depending on ICD-9 or ICD-10 is "ex-Submariner" which ended in 1999.

    So, four or five "pre-existing conditions," zero of which would have had to do with COVID.

    Funnily, if I got hit by a car tomorrow, four or five would be on my death certificate as pre-existing conditions, despite the car being what did me in. No matter what finally kills me, be it being decapitated in a sword battle in a warehouse with lightning all around, or just keeling over from one too many Old Bay potato chips, all these things will be on my death certificate.

    Other common pre-existing conditions include such winners as "ever pregnant," "ever had an ear infection," "ever had a broken bone," "ex-smoker" and so many more. Ever had your tonsils out? That counts. So does an appendix removal, a vasectomy, a tubal ligation, and so, so much more. All counted by the CDC.

    Both of you are misinterpreting what the CDC said by accident, not having read the original materials and going by what you've heard, or by believing what a venue has told you because I'd rather not consider the ramifications of either of you willfully misinterpreting what the study says. 

    Dial it back a bit. There's a lot in this thread that is over the commenting guidelines, including the use of the term "fake news" or a derivative.

    AI will not be your political battleground.
    I almost died from the regular flu last year and I personally know multiple people who’ve died from COVID. The fact is, people with severe underlying conditions are the ones most at risk. 99+% people suffer few or mild effects and fully recover. COVID is not the “end of the world” virus it has been portrayed as in the media and the subject itself is political, no matter how much that might be disputed.
    Tell that to the 200k+ who have died and 1000+ day who continue to die now. The problem is most people do NOT KNOW how susceptible they are to the virus. Also you conveniently leave out people who have not died but still have have issues due to the virus, probably for the rest of their lives.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02598-6

    This virus is no joke. Your devaluation of it does not help anyone

    Do you see people running wild in the streets panicking over daily cardiovascular deaths?

    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/how-many-people-die-each-day/
    cat52
  • Reply 34 of 46
    cat52 said:
    StrangeDays said:

    OMG, I can't believe you're citing the alien demon sperm voodoo doctor org. What a joke. You've been duped, son. 

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/stella-immanuel-trumps-new-covid-doctor-believes-in-alien-dna-demon-sperm-and-hydroxychloroquine

    ....when the POTUS was treated with the finest socialized medicine system in the world, guess what drug he wasn't prescribed? Hydroxychloroquine. Because it was all bullshit, which you apparently fell for.

    As I stated in a subsequent post, AFD are merely one example of doctors who are willing to go in front of the cameras to challenge the official covid narrative.  But there are plenty of others who have done so as well.

    Regarding your other point when the president of Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro, contacted covid, he was treated with hydroxychloroquine + zinc and made a speedy recovery despite being 65 years of age.

    So yes, hydroxychloroquine does work and works well.


    The reason the media always ridicule hydroxychloroquine is because it's an old drug no longer on patent, meaning big pharma doesn't make any money off it.  And who are the major advertisers across the media landscape?  Well the pharmaceutical companies of course.

    Now you know why the media doesn't like hydroxychloroquine, for they are merely protecting the interests of their largest advertisers.

    If you didn't realize the above, then I guess you've been duped, son.
    And how many people who must use HCQ as part of their medical regimen (such as people who live in malaria zones or those with lupus) have also contracted COVID? Take a look at Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand. Incidences of COVID and related deaths are very low there. Country to country comparisons are fraught with problems because there are so many factors at play. Do their low rates mean definitively that HCQ is the reason they’ve experienced such success? Of course not, but it absolutely could be a factor.
    cat52
  • Reply 35 of 46
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    cat52 said:
    Mike Wuerthele said:

    However, here in the forums, we'll save percentages of few or mild effects and recoveries for about another year. What we're not going to do is say "oh, something else not COVID killed these folks" because that's 100% wrong, and driven by a particular aspect of media.

    Folks live with asthma, COPD and whatnot, and it is absolutely COVID that is killing them. Doctors aren't getting paid more for COVID cases, or saying that a patient has died from it. While you didn't say that yourself, that has come up in this thread, and it is 100% bogus and should never have been said. By anyone.

    With all due respect, what you state above is simply not true.

    2020 is currently on pace to be an exceedingly normal year as far as the total number of fatalities are concerned.  However, we've been told that more than 200,000 people have died from covid in the US.  So how do you square those two contradictory data points?
    ...
    How do we square it?   We don't.  Because that is not only not true, the opposite is true.

    A 100,000 have died over and beyond the 218,000 deaths attribute to Covid-19.   That suggests that Covid deaths have been understated.  That they are low by 50%.
  • Reply 36 of 46
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member

    This is an utter joke.  CDC says most people have 2.6 preexisting conditions who die, they don’t die from SARS-Cov2.  The cough could be from many other things.  
    Yes, this sounds like unsupportable nonsense.
    If I had died from my COVID battle earlier this year, my "pre-existing conditions" on my death certificate would have been "ionizing radiation exposure" and "Potential asbestos exposure," both from more than 20 years ago. Another pair of pre-existing conditions that would have been listed on my death certificate would have been "military vaccinations" and "steel plate in the left leg" from 1996. both unrelated. A fifth, depending on ICD-9 or ICD-10 is "ex-Submariner" which ended in 1999.

    So, four or five "pre-existing conditions," zero of which would have had to do with COVID.

    Funnily, if I got hit by a car tomorrow, four or five would be on my death certificate as pre-existing conditions, despite the car being what did me in. No matter what finally kills me, be it being decapitated in a sword battle in a warehouse with lightning all around, or just keeling over from one too many Old Bay potato chips, all these things will be on my death certificate.

    Other common pre-existing conditions include such winners as "ever pregnant," "ever had an ear infection," "ever had a broken bone," "ex-smoker" and so many more. Ever had your tonsils out? That counts. So does an appendix removal, a vasectomy, a tubal ligation, and so, so much more. All counted by the CDC.

    Both of you are misinterpreting what the CDC said by accident, not having read the original materials and going by what you've heard, or by believing what a venue has told you because I'd rather not consider the ramifications of either of you willfully misinterpreting what the study says. 

    Dial it back a bit. There's a lot in this thread that is over the commenting guidelines, including the use of the term "fake news" or a derivative.

    AI will not be your political battleground.
    I almost died from the regular flu last year and I personally know multiple people who’ve died from COVID. The fact is, people with severe underlying conditions are the ones most at risk. 99+% people suffer few or mild effects and fully recover. COVID is not the “end of the world” virus it has been portrayed as in the media and the subject itself is political, no matter how much that might be disputed.
    No one -- NO ONE -- has suggested it's a species-ending event. Quote a legitimate source to the contrary. What has been said is with the 20% hospitalization rate and 1-3.4% mortality rate, it would kill millions more if behavioral protocols were not deployed. You just made up the rest as a straw man. 

    US mortality is currently 2.5%, it's thankfully been trending down from a highs of 3.6% earlier in the year. Mexico is getting hammered and currently almost 10%. John Hopkins University & Medicine's Coronavirus Resource Center is your friend and the go-to source. 

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality


    Buddy, tune into CNN sometime and you’ll experience a tsunami of falsehoods that far exceeds my bit of mild exaggeration for effect.

    That's only true if you believe the lies and propaganda coming from FauxNews.   At that point, reality is pretty much up for grabs.
  • Reply 37 of 46
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,233member
    AI in medicine has a great future ahead of it.

    This could be a good example for medical pre-filtering and giving people a fairly good idea of their COVID status right from their homes and in record time. 

    It might also make sense for users to be able to record their 'normal' forced coughs and have the AI use that to improve the results.

    I hear that 'smell' is also becoming an ever increasing tool in health diagnosis so if the industry could get together and produce a sensor to manage that, it could prove to be a game changer and not only for COVID-19.

    https://www.wired.com/story/quest-to-make-robot-smell-cancer-dog/
  • Reply 38 of 46
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    cat52 said:
    SpamSandwich said:

    And how many people who must use HCQ as part of their medical regimen (such as people who live in malaria zones or those with lupus) have also contracted COVID? Take a look at Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand. Incidences of COVID and related deaths are very low there. Country to country comparisons are fraught with problems because there are so many factors at play. Do their low rates mean definitively that HCQ is the reason they’ve experienced such success? Of course not, but it absolutely could be a factor.

    ....

    I mean God forbid if there were a cheap cure for covid.  No, can't have that.

    Unfortunately, there isn't.  That's why every major country in the world is looking for one.
  • Reply 39 of 46
    cat52 said:
    SpamSandwich said:

    And how many people who must use HCQ as part of their medical regimen (such as people who live in malaria zones or those with lupus) have also contracted COVID? Take a look at Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand. Incidences of COVID and related deaths are very low there. Country to country comparisons are fraught with problems because there are so many factors at play. Do their low rates mean definitively that HCQ is the reason they’ve experienced such success? Of course not, but it absolutely could be a factor.

    Yeah, agreed.

    Hard to say with 100% certainty since so many factors are at play amongst various countries as you correctly pointed out, but nonetheless it certainly appears there could be some causality here.

    In a sane world this would be a correlation worth investigating, but as I mentioned before most things these days are driven by money and there's just not any money to be made with HCQ, hence all the vitriol against it.


    I mean God forbid if there were a cheap cure for covid.  No, can't have that.
    And incidentally SOME testing has been going on, with results.

    Treatment with Zinc is Associated with Reduced In-Hospital Mortality Among COVID-19 Patients: A Multi-Center Cohort Study”
    https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-94509/v1
  • Reply 40 of 46
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    cat52 said:
    cat52 said:

    I mean God forbid if there were a cheap cure for covid.  No, can't have that.

    Unfortunately, there isn't.  That's why every major country in the world is looking for one.

    Are you familiar with who Jair Bolsonaro is?

    Well he's the 65 year old president of Brazil, a country of 210+ million people.

    So when Bolsonaro contracted covid over the summer, presumably he had access to some of the best healthcare in the world.

    And what did he & his team of doctors choose for his treatment?  Well they chose HCQ + zinc.

    And in a matter of days, Bolsonaro had beaten covid and was back on the job, better than ever.


    So why do you persist in saying HCQ isn't effective?

    Well I know the reason why.  It's because we all have our favorite media outlets, and unless our favorite journalist blesses a given position, we reject it out of hand.

    It's tribalism in action, but it's not a good look, so I would encourage anyone to rediscover the joys of thinking for yourself.

    At least give it a try sometime, for you just might like it.

    He's just another Trump sycophant.   Whatever Trump does, he does.
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