Cough analysis app could detect COVID-19 by sound alone

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 55
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,037member
    cat52 said:
    Mike Wuerthele said:

    However, here in the forums, we'll save percentages of few or mild effects and recoveries for about another year. What we're not going to do is say "oh, something else not COVID killed these folks" because that's 100% wrong, and driven by a particular aspect of media.

    Folks live with asthma, COPD and whatnot, and it is absolutely COVID that is killing them. Doctors aren't getting paid more for COVID cases, or saying that a patient has died from it. While you didn't say that yourself, that has come up in this thread, and it is 100% bogus and should never have been said. By anyone.

    With all due respect, what you state above is simply not true.

    2020 is currently on pace to be an exceedingly normal year as far as the total number of fatalities are concerned.  However, we've been told that more than 200,000 people have died from covid in the US.  So how do you square those two contradictory data points?
    ...
    How do we square it?   We don't.  Because that is not only not true, the opposite is true.

    A 100,000 have died over and beyond the 218,000 deaths attribute to Covid-19.   That suggests that Covid deaths have been understated.  That they are low by 50%.
  • Reply 42 of 55
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,037member

    This is an utter joke.  CDC says most people have 2.6 preexisting conditions who die, they don’t die from SARS-Cov2.  The cough could be from many other things.  
    Yes, this sounds like unsupportable nonsense.
    If I had died from my COVID battle earlier this year, my "pre-existing conditions" on my death certificate would have been "ionizing radiation exposure" and "Potential asbestos exposure," both from more than 20 years ago. Another pair of pre-existing conditions that would have been listed on my death certificate would have been "military vaccinations" and "steel plate in the left leg" from 1996. both unrelated. A fifth, depending on ICD-9 or ICD-10 is "ex-Submariner" which ended in 1999.

    So, four or five "pre-existing conditions," zero of which would have had to do with COVID.

    Funnily, if I got hit by a car tomorrow, four or five would be on my death certificate as pre-existing conditions, despite the car being what did me in. No matter what finally kills me, be it being decapitated in a sword battle in a warehouse with lightning all around, or just keeling over from one too many Old Bay potato chips, all these things will be on my death certificate.

    Other common pre-existing conditions include such winners as "ever pregnant," "ever had an ear infection," "ever had a broken bone," "ex-smoker" and so many more. Ever had your tonsils out? That counts. So does an appendix removal, a vasectomy, a tubal ligation, and so, so much more. All counted by the CDC.

    Both of you are misinterpreting what the CDC said by accident, not having read the original materials and going by what you've heard, or by believing what a venue has told you because I'd rather not consider the ramifications of either of you willfully misinterpreting what the study says. 

    Dial it back a bit. There's a lot in this thread that is over the commenting guidelines, including the use of the term "fake news" or a derivative.

    AI will not be your political battleground.
    I almost died from the regular flu last year and I personally know multiple people who’ve died from COVID. The fact is, people with severe underlying conditions are the ones most at risk. 99+% people suffer few or mild effects and fully recover. COVID is not the “end of the world” virus it has been portrayed as in the media and the subject itself is political, no matter how much that might be disputed.
    No one -- NO ONE -- has suggested it's a species-ending event. Quote a legitimate source to the contrary. What has been said is with the 20% hospitalization rate and 1-3.4% mortality rate, it would kill millions more if behavioral protocols were not deployed. You just made up the rest as a straw man. 

    US mortality is currently 2.5%, it's thankfully been trending down from a highs of 3.6% earlier in the year. Mexico is getting hammered and currently almost 10%. John Hopkins University & Medicine's Coronavirus Resource Center is your friend and the go-to source. 

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality


    Buddy, tune into CNN sometime and you’ll experience a tsunami of falsehoods that far exceeds my bit of mild exaggeration for effect.

    That's only true if you believe the lies and propaganda coming from FauxNews.   At that point, reality is pretty much up for grabs.
  • Reply 43 of 55
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,995member
    AI in medicine has a great future ahead of it.

    This could be a good example for medical pre-filtering and giving people a fairly good idea of their COVID status right from their homes and in record time. 

    It might also make sense for users to be able to record their 'normal' forced coughs and have the AI use that to improve the results.

    I hear that 'smell' is also becoming an ever increasing tool in health diagnosis so if the industry could get together and produce a sensor to manage that, it could prove to be a game changer and not only for COVID-19.

    https://www.wired.com/story/quest-to-make-robot-smell-cancer-dog/
  • Reply 44 of 55
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,037member
    cat52 said:
    SpamSandwich said:

    And how many people who must use HCQ as part of their medical regimen (such as people who live in malaria zones or those with lupus) have also contracted COVID? Take a look at Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand. Incidences of COVID and related deaths are very low there. Country to country comparisons are fraught with problems because there are so many factors at play. Do their low rates mean definitively that HCQ is the reason they’ve experienced such success? Of course not, but it absolutely could be a factor.

    ....

    I mean God forbid if there were a cheap cure for covid.  No, can't have that.

    Unfortunately, there isn't.  That's why every major country in the world is looking for one.
  • Reply 45 of 55
    cat52 said:
    SpamSandwich said:

    And how many people who must use HCQ as part of their medical regimen (such as people who live in malaria zones or those with lupus) have also contracted COVID? Take a look at Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand. Incidences of COVID and related deaths are very low there. Country to country comparisons are fraught with problems because there are so many factors at play. Do their low rates mean definitively that HCQ is the reason they’ve experienced such success? Of course not, but it absolutely could be a factor.

    Yeah, agreed.

    Hard to say with 100% certainty since so many factors are at play amongst various countries as you correctly pointed out, but nonetheless it certainly appears there could be some causality here.

    In a sane world this would be a correlation worth investigating, but as I mentioned before most things these days are driven by money and there's just not any money to be made with HCQ, hence all the vitriol against it.


    I mean God forbid if there were a cheap cure for covid.  No, can't have that.
    And incidentally SOME testing has been going on, with results.

    Treatment with Zinc is Associated with Reduced In-Hospital Mortality Among COVID-19 Patients: A Multi-Center Cohort Study”
    https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-94509/v1
  • Reply 46 of 55
    cat52cat52 Posts: 124member
    cat52 said:

    I mean God forbid if there were a cheap cure for covid.  No, can't have that.

    Unfortunately, there isn't.  That's why every major country in the world is looking for one.

    Are you familiar with who Jair Bolsonaro is?

    Well he's the 65 year old president of Brazil, a country of 210+ million people.

    So when Bolsonaro contracted covid over the summer, presumably he had access to some of the best healthcare in the world.

    And what did he & his team of doctors choose for his treatment?  Well they chose HCQ + zinc.

    And in a matter of days, Bolsonaro had beaten covid and was back on the job, better than ever.


    So why do you persist in saying HCQ isn't effective?

    Well I know the reason why.  It's because we all have our favorite media outlets, and unless our favorite journalist blesses a given position, we reject it out of hand.

    It's tribalism in action, but it's not a good look, so I would encourage anyone to rediscover the joys of thinking for yourself.

    At least give it a try sometime, for you just might like it.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 47 of 55
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,037member
    cat52 said:
    cat52 said:

    I mean God forbid if there were a cheap cure for covid.  No, can't have that.

    Unfortunately, there isn't.  That's why every major country in the world is looking for one.

    Are you familiar with who Jair Bolsonaro is?

    Well he's the 65 year old president of Brazil, a country of 210+ million people.

    So when Bolsonaro contracted covid over the summer, presumably he had access to some of the best healthcare in the world.

    And what did he & his team of doctors choose for his treatment?  Well they chose HCQ + zinc.

    And in a matter of days, Bolsonaro had beaten covid and was back on the job, better than ever.


    So why do you persist in saying HCQ isn't effective?

    Well I know the reason why.  It's because we all have our favorite media outlets, and unless our favorite journalist blesses a given position, we reject it out of hand.

    It's tribalism in action, but it's not a good look, so I would encourage anyone to rediscover the joys of thinking for yourself.

    At least give it a try sometime, for you just might like it.

    He's just another Trump sycophant.   Whatever Trump does, he does.
  • Reply 48 of 55
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,995member
    cat52 said:
    cat52 said:

    I mean God forbid if there were a cheap cure for covid.  No, can't have that.

    Unfortunately, there isn't.  That's why every major country in the world is looking for one.

    Are you familiar with who Jair Bolsonaro is?

    Well he's the 65 year old president of Brazil, a country of 210+ million people.

    So when Bolsonaro contracted covid over the summer, presumably he had access to some of the best healthcare in the world.

    And what did he & his team of doctors choose for his treatment?  Well they chose HCQ + zinc.

    And in a matter of days, Bolsonaro had beaten covid and was back on the job, better than ever.


    So why do you persist in saying HCQ isn't effective?

    Well I know the reason why.  It's because we all have our favorite media outlets, and unless our favorite journalist blesses a given position, we reject it out of hand.

    It's tribalism in action, but it's not a good look, so I would encourage anyone to rediscover the joys of thinking for yourself.

    At least give it a try sometime, for you just might like it.
    Effectiveness has to be studied and that will take time. 

    Even Vitamin D might help in some cases but everything needs to be studied. 

    We can't take the clinical approach used for one person and then extrapolate it to the wider population.

    That doesn't work. 

    Clinically speaking, your medical advisor will do what he/she considers best for you given your own particular state of health.

    Right now there simply isn't a cure for COVID-19 and there is still a lot to be learned. 

    The fact that Bolsonaro recovered doesn't mean the treatment he received can be considered a cure.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7341710/

    edited November 2020
  • Reply 49 of 55
    cat52cat52 Posts: 124member
    GeorgeBMac said:

    He's just another Trump sycophant.   Whatever Trump does, he does.

    This has nothing to do with Trump.  A buddy of mine is a physician and was prescribing HCQ to his patients before Trump popularized the drug.

    Just because Trump likes HCQ, doesn't mean it's not effective, as Jair Bolsonaro aptly proved to anyone paying attention.
  • Reply 50 of 55
    cat52 said:
    GeorgeBMac said:

    He's just another Trump sycophant.   Whatever Trump does, he does.

    This has nothing to do with Trump.  A buddy of mine is a physician and was prescribing HCQ to his patients before Trump popularized the drug.

    Just because Trump likes HCQ, doesn't mean it's not effective, as Jair Bolsonaro aptly proved to anyone paying attention.
    Interestingly, my doctor (who is a head physician at his university) also endorsed the use of HCQ when I asked him in a completely non-political context.
  • Reply 51 of 55
    cat52cat52 Posts: 124member
    avon b7 said:

    Effectiveness has to be studied and that will take time. 

    Even Vitamin D might help in some cases but everything needs to be studied. 

    We can't take the clinical approach used for one person and then extrapolate it to the wider population.

    That doesn't work. 

    Clinically speaking, your medical advisor will do what he/she considers best for you given your own particular state of health.

    Right now there simply isn't a cure for COVID-19 and there is still a lot to be learned. 

    The fact that Bolsonaro recovered doesn't mean the treatment he received can be considered a cure.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7341710/


    I agree that vitamin D has shown to play a preventative/healing role as well, good point.

    However it's a medical truism that each patient is a little different, and so there's hardly a cure-all which is going to be 100% effective in all cases no matter what the disease may be.


    Nevertheless though, HCQ + zinc has shown to be incredibly effective against covid, and the nice thing about HCQ is that I believe the drug is 60 years old or so by now, and so we know the side effects etc.

    That being the case, you really have to question the wisdom of the lockdowns etc when such a cheap and readily available drug is there to help those who may need it.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 52 of 55
    cat52cat52 Posts: 124member
    SpamSandwich said:

    Interestingly, my doctor (who is a head physician at his university) also endorsed the use of HCQ when I asked him in a completely non-political context.

    Yeah, one of the more asinine aspects of 2020 is why in the world a 60 year old malaria drug should suddenly become so hotly politicized.  Lives are potentially at risk, and people want to play politics?  Kinda disgusting.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 53 of 55
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,306member
    cat52 said:
    cat52 said:

    I mean God forbid if there were a cheap cure for covid.  No, can't have that.

    Unfortunately, there isn't.  That's why every major country in the world is looking for one.

    Are you familiar with who Jair Bolsonaro is?

    Well he's the 65 year old president of Brazil, a country of 210+ million people.

    So when Bolsonaro contracted covid over the summer, presumably he had access to some of the best healthcare in the world.

    And what did he & his team of doctors choose for his treatment?  Well they chose HCQ + zinc.

    And in a matter of days, Bolsonaro had beaten covid and was back on the job, better than ever.


    So why do you persist in saying HCQ isn't effective?

    Well I know the reason why.  It's because we all have our favorite media outlets, and unless our favorite journalist blesses a given position, we reject it out of hand.

    It's tribalism in action, but it's not a good look, so I would encourage anyone to rediscover the joys of thinking for yourself.

    At least give it a try sometime, for you just might like it.
    Why? Because what you've described is how superstition works, not science. It's well established that individual reactions to COVID-19 vary widely, from asymptomatic to death. You could just as accurately describe what Bolsonaro had for breakfast as a "cure" as you could his supposed regimen of hydroxychloroquine and zinc. Medical science uses clinical trials because it takes a lot of data to be able to filter correlation from noise, and even more data to draw conclusions about causation. Claiming that because one or even a few cherry-picked anecdotal cases look, through rose-colored glasses, like a cure, is like declaring victory in an election before all the votes are counted.

    The truth is that it's people like Bolsonaro and Trump who politicized hydroxychloroquine, because they were motivated to have something on hand they could claim as a cure, even when there's little or no science to back the claim. It's also well-known that Bolsonaro is not a reliable source of truthful information about much of anything, so taking his claims about his illness and/or treatment at face value is not advisable.

    Also, using science as the guide, there is a difference between noting that there isn't sufficient evidence that something is an effective therapeutic drug or "cure," and saying that it is not an effective therapeutic drug or "cure." Given that context, noting that a particular drug has been around for years does not render it "safe" for use in a novel application, especially when that novel application would likely involve vastly more people than its previously intended use. Each use of a drug must undergo a risk/benefit analysis. This drug has been used as a treatment for people who have malaria. Given the high rate of severe symptoms for malaria patients, the risk of any of the long list of side effects for HCQ are probably warranted. So even if it were shown to be effective against COVID-19, it's still a very different risk/benefit calculation, given the wide scope of symptom severity for COVID. Complicating things further, if the risk calculation limited HCQ use to only more severe cases, there would be a statistical challenge in assessing its effectiveness in that smaller number of cases.

    So at this point, the science is still at best inconclusive with regards to this drug, and it is unhelpful for people to continue to promote it for political reasons as something it's not, based on anecdotal evidence like, "There's this one guy and HE took it and is fine, so let's give it to everybody!"

    Lives are indeed at stake, and politicizing this drug just to claim to have a "cure" is indeed disgusting and reprehensible.
    edited November 2020 tmay
  • Reply 54 of 55
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,553member
    cat52 said:
    SpamSandwich said:

    Interestingly, my doctor (who is a head physician at his university) also endorsed the use of HCQ when I asked him in a completely non-political context.

    Yeah, one of the more asinine aspects of 2020 is why in the world a 60 year old malaria drug should suddenly become so hotly politicized.  Lives are potentially at risk, and people want to play politics?  Kinda disgusting.
    Science disagrees with you;

    https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2020/september/hydroxychloroquine-no-more-effective-than-placebo-in-preventing-covid19

    "At the end of the study, 6.3 percent of those who took the hydroxychloroquine had tested positive for COVID-19 while 6.6 percent of those who took the placebos were positive. None required hospitalization. Additionally, there was no difference detected in the heart rhythms between those in either arm of the study, which showed that while the drug had no preventive effect, it was also not detrimental, outside of some temporary side effects like diarrhea for some.

    “The differences we saw were negligible,” Amaravadi said. “And those who did get the virus, whether they were taking hydroxychloroquine or not, were all asymptomatic or had very mild forms of COVID-19.”

    While the study was originally slated to recruit 200 health care workers, an analysis along the way showed that a continuation of enrollment would not yield different results. An independent data safety and monitoring board reviewed the findings and concurred".


  • Reply 55 of 55
    Please put all efforts into simple, preventive universal 1.5m detection.
    Use BT, UW, LiDAR, NFC, TOF, AirDrop proximity detection and all other high-profile technologies to their extreme.
    How hard can it be now that the Covid API already uses a form of proximity-detection and the Measurement app has sub-millimeter precision ?
    I just had a vision of your idea come to fruition. If anyone comes within 1.5m, Siri loudly exclaims "GTFOutta my face!" And on public transport there'll be hundreds of phones all barking the same thing. O brave new world, that has such things in it!
    cat52
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