Yes, all these added bells and whistles are nice, looking better on webcam etc, faster ML, but those things are super niche. Better battery is great, but having 10 hours vs 20 isn't essential. When's the last time you worried about how you look on webcam, or how fast ML is? It's actually less functionality for me at least, as it can't run Windows which I use for parts of my job - And so does Apple. Amusingly, the Mac Pros are running Modelsim, which is a logic analyser. And it's Windows only. I used Windows on my Mac regularly at uni, if I couldn't, I would have got a PC laptop. Same for several of my friends at uni.
With that kind of battery life I will no longer care that magsafe is gone. It’s now irrelevant. If you need Windows that sucks and these machines aren’t for you (yet). Luckily I have no such needs for my laptop. I only care about Windows for gaming and I have a gaming PC for that.
Also the Windows story on Apple Silicon hasn’t been completely told yet. We know Parallels is working on x86 emulation and since Apple owns their CPU design it wouldn’t surprise me if it was going to be beneficial and not complicate things that they have hardware assist for x86 emulation. I’m not holding my breath, but Apple knows x86 is going to be an issue for Pro’s so I wouldn’t count something like that out.
It’s WAY early in this transition. This is the start of a 2 year process, according to Apple. It will be interesting to see how things play out, that’s for sure.
Perhaps Apple will release a dual-CPU machine with an Intel CPU and an M1, so we don't have to live with emulation. Emulation is horribly slow without hardware support. Don't know if you ever tried to use Windows on a PPC Mac, but it was excruciatingly slow.
That’s not the Apple way; they make a choice and go all in without too many compromises.
Do folks here have any update on Apple's trade-in program policy? Looking to trade in my 2020 MBP but learned today that the device has to be at least 1 year old. Somewhat frustrating as I'm sure many customers will want to transition to the M1 platform. Is Apple likely to change this policy and offer a trade in for recent hardware (4 months old). Any other recommendations on how to get a good price for the pretty new device?
The only disappointment to me is the maximum RAM is only 16GB and to me that should be the base amount of RAM. My 6 year old MBP has 32GB RAM so I won’t be upgarding it yet. Sigh.
I agree - it’s a weird limitation but I think due to the SoC concept. I expect the next announcements (M2? M1X?) to go beyond this.
A strange combination of revolutionary chip design and an old and tired outer shell.
That's the way it was with the PPC to Intel transition. Seemed to work really well then. I imagine Apple is banking on not breaking what isn't broken - especially in Apple's budget low-power-consumption category.
Yes, all these added bells and whistles are nice, looking better on webcam etc, faster ML, but those things are super niche. Better battery is great, but having 10 hours vs 20 isn't essential. When's the last time you worried about how you look on webcam, or how fast ML is? It's actually less functionality for me at least, as it can't run Windows which I use for parts of my job - And so does Apple. Amusingly, the Mac Pros are running Modelsim, which is a logic analyser. And it's Windows only. I used Windows on my Mac regularly at uni, if I couldn't, I would have got a PC laptop. Same for several of my friends at uni.
With that kind of battery life I will no longer care that magsafe is gone. It’s now irrelevant. If you need Windows that sucks and these machines aren’t for you (yet). Luckily I have no such needs for my laptop. I only care about Windows for gaming and I have a gaming PC for that.
Also the Windows story on Apple Silicon hasn’t been completely told yet. We know Parallels is working on x86 emulation and since Apple owns their CPU design it wouldn’t surprise me if it was going to be beneficial and not complicate things that they have hardware assist for x86 emulation. I’m not holding my breath, but Apple knows x86 is going to be an issue for Pro’s so I wouldn’t count something like that out.
It’s WAY early in this transition. This is the start of a 2 year process, according to Apple. It will be interesting to see how things play out, that’s for sure.
Perhaps Apple will release a dual-CPU machine with an Intel CPU and an M1, so we don't have to live with emulation. Emulation is horribly slow without hardware support. Don't know if you ever tried to use Windows on a PPC Mac, but it was excruciatingly slow.
Apple has just got shot of Intel, so it's highly unlikely that they're going to wade back into that mess of missed promises and support headaches, not for such a small number of users.
A third party might come up with a co-processor setup that plugs into the Thunderbolt port, or a company like Parallels might be able to work up x86 emulation, but I think that's about as good as it gets.
Apple's focus is on containers such as Docker and Linux, which is what the developer community is going to need. Probably why they made a point of demonstrating them at the WWDC, and so far, has made no mention of Windows. No one is using Macs to develop Windows-only software
The only disappointment to me is the maximum RAM is only 16GB and to me that should be the base amount of RAM. My 6 year old MBP has 32GB RAM so I won’t be upgarding it yet. Sigh.
Huh??? There's no way that a 6 year old MacBook Pro ever had 32 GB of RAM. I have the 2015 15" MBP with Graphics card and the most I could've had at that time is 16 GB.
The only disappointment to me is the maximum RAM is only 16GB and to me that should be the base amount of RAM. My 6 year old MBP has 32GB RAM so I won’t be upgarding it yet. Sigh.
Huh??? There's no way that a 6 year old MacBook Pro ever had 32 GB of RAM. I have the 2015 15" MBP with Graphics card and the most I could've had at that time is 16 GB.
It's a lie. You can check Mactracker or Macsales.com. Even up to the 2016 MBP is 16 GiB supported, and that's even the 15" models, which are currently supporting 64 GiB.
The only real disappointment for me is that in the year 2021 we will still be using a 720p camera on an Apple laptop.
I do a lot of FaceTime calls on my current MacBook Pro but the quality is pretty bad, especially in low light. I’d have loved both the air and pro to have had a camera bump to 1080p with low light improvements - shame.
The only real disappointment for me is that in the year 2021 we will still be using a 720p camera on an Apple laptop.
I do a lot of FaceTime calls on my current MacBook Pro but the quality is pretty bad, especially in low light. I’d have loved both the air and pro to have had a camera bump to 1080p with low light improvements - shame.
I agree. My iPad pro has a better FaceTime camera than my 2016 MacBook pro.
The only real disappointment for me is that in the year 2021 we will still be using a 720p camera on an Apple laptop.
I do a lot of FaceTime calls on my current MacBook Pro but the quality is pretty bad, especially in low light. I’d have loved both the air and pro to have had a camera bump to 1080p with low light improvements - shame.
The only real disappointment for me is that in the year 2021 we will still be using a 720p camera on an Apple laptop.
I do a lot of FaceTime calls on my current MacBook Pro but the quality is pretty bad, especially in low light. I’d have loved both the air and pro to have had a camera bump to 1080p with low light improvements - shame.
I agree. My iPad pro has a better FaceTime camera than my 2016 MacBook pro.
I hear ya, but I wouldn't expect that to change until the technology shrinks more. Those top casings are much thinner than in an iPad so the camera modules that can go on edges are more limited. While I'd love for you both to get better FaceTime cameras, I don't want it to happen if it means making the top cover thicker.
I notice the price is the same as before, so rather than dropping the price due to cheaper CPU and increasing accessibility for people, they're just absorbing the extra profit. Great, that's the Cook Way. ߙ䦬t;/div>
You aren’t buying a collection of parts, your buying functionality.
If you don’t think the value proposition works for you, don’t buy it. Frankly I’m surprised they didn’t raise the price - this little thing called inflation means they are already grossing less just from that alone.
If you want cheap crap there are plenty of other vendors to choose from out there. Have at it. I have no problem paying for a better experience. I originally typed out paying more for a better experience, but comparing previous Air to this one you aren’t paying more for a machine that appears to be better in every way.
Yup - damn those greedy Apple bustards!
Lol yeah these dudes crack me up, they’re used to lemonade stand economics and that’s about it. No real world experience in product, don’t grasp value propositions, likely have never run a business, etc etc.. Just IT nerds doin what they do best — bitchin’.
You're the one with no real world experience, if Macs are such great value why is it a Mac with almost identical specs to a Windows machine is so much more expensive? A Dell XPS is cheaper than a Mac, has the same specs and is cheaper. And surely if "running a business" is a way to know value proposition, every business would be full of Macs, but they aren't. Why do you think that is?
All TCO results from all companies that have a mixed deployment show that for equivalent spec'd Macs and PCs, Mac's come out better value. They last longer (that's a bigger denominator in the equation) and have less support costs (that's a lower addition to the numerator). So whilst they may cost more upfront, they cost far less per year of ownership compared to the equivalent PC.
Anyone know how corporate remote access tools like Citrix Receiver work on this new M1 model?
That’s a key requirement for our teams. Many have been holding out waiting for this
Not for sure, but I expect exactly the same as an iPad.
Citrix on the iPad is not the same as Citrix on a desktop. If you are dependent on it I would wait and confirm before deciding anything. I've had OS updates break Citrix in the past.
You're the one with no real world experience, if Macs are such great value why is it a Mac with almost identical specs to a Windows machine is so much more expensive?
Because enough people see the value of the Mac as more than the raw cost of it’s component parts? The Mac is more than just hardware and “specs” - the value of the Mac for myself and many others is the entire experience - hardware, software, sales, support, etc. People make fun of the “it just works” but it’s far more true, in my experience, for the Mac than it is any other general purpose computing platform. That has value.
That “more” is worth paying extra for many others than just me too, apparently. Indeed Apple sold every Mac they manufactured, even with new hardware obviously on the way. Mac sales have been increasing over time with only a few deviations for decades - thats pretty incredible.
So there must be something to that “more” that is beyond simple components and specs. Or are you going to try to argue it’s just blind fanaticism?
Of course the value is more than the component parts. But there are several devaluing problems right now. Macs are supported by Apple for less time than PCs (my 2009 MBP runs win10 just fine when Apple dropped support after Catalina), and there are plenty of things that don't just work for me at least, unfortunately. My latest Apple issue is the Apple Watch Mac unlocking feature being broken, I've tried all sorts of fixes but still no good. That's not "it just works". The lack of Windows support devalues the Macs because they are no longer the all-in-one that the Intel ones are, switchers no longer have a fallback to Windows if they need it. It devalues the Mac for me too, as it would mean I'd need a PC as well as a Mac to do my work, whereas right now I can just use my Mac and Parallels.
Sales continuing to increase really isn't that incredible. When Macs were good value, and when Windows was awful, between about 2006 and 2015, Mac growth outpaced the market quite significantly. I hate to say it but Win10 really isn't too bad, certainly nowhere near as bad as Vista was, which is probably a contributing factor as to why Macs are growing at about the same rate as the market - Apple has had ~6-7% worldwide market share for a long time now. In 2019 Apple's market share actually fell 3% vs overall growth in the PC industry of 2.3%. I have friends that have switched to Mac for a couple of upgrade cycles, but have recently switched back to PCs because they don't see that the Mac is good enough value any more.
But that was in reply to StrangeDays claiming that he has real world experience with businesses etc. Which clearly he doesn't otherwise he'd know Windows is still king in the business world.
I notice the price is the same as before, so rather than dropping the price due to cheaper CPU and increasing accessibility for people, they're just absorbing the extra profit. Great, that's the Cook Way. ߙ䦬t;/div>
You aren’t buying a collection of parts, your buying functionality.
If you don’t think the value proposition works for you, don’t buy it. Frankly I’m surprised they didn’t raise the price - this little thing called inflation means they are already grossing less just from that alone.
If you want cheap crap there are plenty of other vendors to choose from out there. Have at it. I have no problem paying more for a better experience.
Yes, all these added bells and whistles are nice, looking better on webcam etc, faster ML, but those things are super niche. Better battery is great, but having 10 hours vs 20 isn't essential. When's the last time you worried about how you look on webcam, or how fast ML is? It's actually less functionality for me at least, as it can't run Windows which I use for parts of my job - And so does Apple. Amusingly, the Mac Pros are running Modelsim, which is a logic analyser. And it's Windows only. I used Windows on my Mac regularly at uni, if I couldn't, I would have got a PC laptop. Same for several of my friends at uni.
More people use their webcams than use Windows on their Macs by a huge margin. It is you who are super niche.
Which is more of a game breaker for someone who uses Windows on their Mac, a slightly better webcam, or lack of Windows support?. And no, if it was super niche do you really think VMware would bother with Fusion? And Parallels? They keep existing despite Windows on Mac being "super niche".
I notice the price is the same as before, so rather than dropping the price due to cheaper CPU and increasing accessibility for people, they're just absorbing the extra profit. Great, that's the Cook Way. ߙ䦬t;/div>
So we pay the same price as the lame Intel MBA, but now we get an 8-core CPU, an 8-core GPU, much longer battery life, much cooler operation meaning maybe less throttling for much faster sustained performance?
Comments
Stay tuned for the Pro lineup, however.
Apple has just got shot of Intel, so it's highly unlikely that they're going to wade back into that mess of missed promises and support headaches, not for such a small number of users.
A third party might come up with a co-processor setup that plugs into the Thunderbolt port, or a company like Parallels might be able to work up x86 emulation, but I think that's about as good as it gets.
Apple's focus is on containers such as Docker and Linux, which is what the developer community is going to need. Probably why they made a point of demonstrating them at the WWDC, and so far, has made no mention of Windows. No one is using Macs to develop Windows-only software
If it ain't broke …
I do a lot of FaceTime calls on my current MacBook Pro but the quality is pretty bad, especially in low light. I’d have loved both the air and pro to have had a camera bump to 1080p with low light improvements - shame.
Sales continuing to increase really isn't that incredible. When Macs were good value, and when Windows was awful, between about 2006 and 2015, Mac growth outpaced the market quite significantly. I hate to say it but Win10 really isn't too bad, certainly nowhere near as bad as Vista was, which is probably a contributing factor as to why Macs are growing at about the same rate as the market - Apple has had ~6-7% worldwide market share for a long time now. In 2019 Apple's market share actually fell 3% vs overall growth in the PC industry of 2.3%. I have friends that have switched to Mac for a couple of upgrade cycles, but have recently switched back to PCs because they don't see that the Mac is good enough value any more.
But that was in reply to StrangeDays claiming that he has real world experience with businesses etc. Which clearly he doesn't otherwise he'd know Windows is still king in the business world.
Which is more of a game breaker for someone who uses Windows on their Mac, a slightly better webcam, or lack of Windows support?. And no, if it was super niche do you really think VMware would bother with Fusion? And Parallels? They keep existing despite Windows on Mac being "super niche".
What a...disappointment...?