People seem to overlook where Apple thinks this type of performance belongs; at the very bottom. This is and will be their least performant SoC. I think in the Spring we'll see a variant of the M1 that adds 2 more high performance CPU cores, 4 more GPU cores and doubles on board memory. This new SoC will be an upgrade option for the mini and PowerBook 13" and may replace the low-end 16" model and even appear in the smaller 21" iMac. Then in the Fall the M2 will increase performance, double the PCI lanes and allow for off board memory expansion (along with other improvements across the board).
“Apple will never leave Intel” “Okay, so they might dump Intel, but they’ll go to AMD.” “Okay, they’re going to use an A14! How will that compete with AMD?” “OKAY, BUT ANDROID STILL HAS THE BIGGLIEST MARKETSHARE!”
“Apple will never leave Intel” “Okay, so they might dump Intel, but they’ll go to AMD.” “Okay, they’re going to use an A14! How will that compete with AMD?” “OKAY, BUT ANDROID STILL HAS THE BIGGLIEST MARKETSHARE!”
I'm dubious of their claims. But i'm all for it if its true. I'll probably wait for M2 tho as I dont need anything right now.
One thought I had....
if these chips are so amazing.... why are they not making servers? using them in data centres, thats where power per watt really matters isnt it?
Efficiency matters everywhere, not just in data centers. It allows you to push up performance without using more power and generating more heat. This is how and why the new MacBook Air does not need fan, but has 3x the performance as the Intel model.
Finally, of course Apple's 5nm M1 is going to outperform Intel's 14nm Core i5. But when Intel's Core i5 is also 14nm in about 3 years (if they hire TSMC to make the chips) or 5 years (if they make the chips themselves)? Then we will see whose performance will wash over whose. Apple will have some advantages, namely the inherent efficiency of RISC vs ISA as well as Apple's strategy of maximizing performance from each core as opposed to Intel's - and everyone else's - strategy of maximizing cores. But Intel also has a performance attribute of their own: the densest core design in the industry. Meaning that a 10nm Intel design is the equivalent of a 7nm Apple one. So when Intel does get to a 5nm design, it will be the equivalent of a 3nm Apple one. So, we shall see ...
I think this is a huge leap you are making. Your entire argument is predicated on Intel making leaps in development like they did in the 90’s and at the same time requiring Apple’s development to slow down to Intel’s current development pace. I just don’t see that happening.
“Apple will never leave Intel” “Okay, so they might dump Intel, but they’ll go to AMD.” “Okay, they’re going to use an A14! How will that compete with AMD?” “OKAY, BUT ANDROID STILL HAS THE BIGGLIEST MARKETSHARE!”
I think that covers everything.
And we can see with our own eyes here, the theme of this thread has quickly turned to throwing shade on the M1 before it’s even in user’s hands. Those whose agenda is to throw shade, FUD, and confusion on everything Apple will be out in force next week as machines arrive in user’s hands. These are the same ones who call some of us fanboys while they are the exact opposite of fanboy. You don't have street cred here unless you dump on Apple at every opportunity. Being positive about Apple is taboo. Only negativity rules the day in Apple tech blogs.
“Apple will never leave Intel” “Okay, so they might dump Intel, but they’ll go to AMD.” “Okay, they’re going to use an A14! How will that compete with AMD?” “OKAY, BUT ANDROID STILL HAS THE BIGGLIEST MARKETSHARE!”
I think that covers everything.
And we can see with our own eyes here, the theme of this thread has quickly turned to throwing shade on the M1 before it’s even in user’s hands. Those whose agenda is to throw shade, FUD, and confusion on everything Apple will be out in force next week as machines arrive in user’s hands. These are the same ones who call some of us fanboys while they are the exact opposite of fanboy. You don't have street cred here unless you dump on Apple at every opportunity. Being positive about Apple is taboo. Only negativity rules the day in Apple tech blogs.
It's the MacRumorisation of AI, it's been in the works for some time, just this thread (like MR) the first post is negative - they compete to be the first to hold that position.
Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
Yes, laughable...
We got desktop computers (with hefty cooling solutions) running at 80C+ during CPU/GPU intensive tasks, but we’re supposed to believe iPhones/iPads/Mac Laptops are able to run the same programs without undergoing a full meltdown. Yeah, okay. I love my Apple devices, but don’t get ahead of yourself there, buddy.
Fun seeing washed up “ consultants” out there trying to push back the sea of Apple Silicon performance that is going to wash over x86
Some are saying that the M1 chip is not an Apple design at all and that they 'bought' it in. Oh well, it takes all sorts does it not?
Well, if you tell a lie often enough maybe someone will believe it. Point being these individuals cannot stand the thought of Apple even existing, let alone thriving, so they invent alternate realities just like the Amiga crowd does to this very day.
Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
Yes, laughable...
We got desktop computers (with hefty cooling solutions) running at 80C+ during CPU/GPU intensive tasks, but we’re supposed to believe iPhones/iPads/Mac Laptops are able to run the same programs without undergoing a full meltdown. Yeah, okay. I love my Apple devices, but don’t get ahead of yourself there, buddy.
That's why AnandTech is a respected web publication that does deep dives into processors and you're just a guy on the internet with absolutely nothing but irrational hate to back up your claims.
You know that you can go to AnandTech's website to see why the Apple A13 scored a 63.3 on the SPECiint2006 test, right? Of course, that takes a little effort on your part so I guess I shouldn't hold my breath.
The future of the Ipad pro is bleak. Prices are higher. And they still use the Ios base ....
Haha, what a troll. Prices for a similarly spec'd Windows computer is comparable and you know it, @Pjs. Just because you can buy a $250 Windows computer doesn't mean everyone should!
Apple just leapt at least three years of anyone else. No one else has the control over software, hardware, and application ecosystem like Apple does, @Pjs, and this is a major milestone. Nothing that Windows can do can touch this for at least a few years. The ARM attempts from Microsoft haven't had the adoption they need and because of the ways that Windows is used it will always be niche.
Windows computers can't follow the leader into very powerful multi-day battery life and fan-free computers here but all the manufacturers know that. It'll be interesting to watch how Microsoft and Windows machines innovate in other ways but I can't see anything that will provide as much of an open blue sky as the M1 is for MacOS and Apple computers.
“Apple will never leave Intel” “Okay, so they might dump Intel, but they’ll go to AMD.” “Okay, they’re going to use an A14! How will that compete with AMD?” “OKAY, BUT ANDROID STILL HAS THE BIGGLIEST MARKETSHARE!”
I think that covers everything.
And we can see with our own eyes here, the theme of this thread has quickly turned to throwing shade on the M1 before it’s even in user’s hands. Those whose agenda is to throw shade, FUD, and confusion on everything Apple will be out in force next week as machines arrive in user’s hands. These are the same ones who call some of us fanboys while they are the exact opposite of fanboy. You don't have street cred here unless you dump on Apple at every opportunity. Being positive about Apple is taboo. Only negativity rules the day in Apple tech blogs.
It's the MacRumorisation of AI, it's been in the works for some time, just this thread (like MR) the first post is negative - they compete to be the first to hold that position.
Now that Apple is moving to their own compute hardware, we will revert back to the troll wars of yore. When Apple moved to Intel, it removed the biggest source of contention between the two computer fandoms, so the flame wars actually decreased quite a bit. But over the next couple of years and into the future? You better have your flame suit on.
It's going to be fun! Hopefully moderators use a heavy hand and moderate out the straight insults but leave the technical posts for all to see.
I'm dubious of their claims. But i'm all for it if its true. I'll probably wait for M2 tho as I dont need anything right now.
One thought I had....
if these chips are so amazing.... why are they not making servers? using them in data centres, thats where power per watt really matters isnt it?
It's a new chip, they have never targeted the datacenter... Not sure if these are proper questions or just rhetorical. Also, ARM chips are already used in data centers but the fact that M1, as far as we know, has no presence in datacenters, well, same answers. I have no doubt that M2 is going to be stunning and in your case it may make sense to wait but I have some sense that you're here as a perennial detractor. We need skeptics but no one is here to know whether @kkqd1337 is dubious or all for it or what one single thought you had that wasn't a single thought. haha. Apple events cause such a stir among the detractors.
Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
Perhaps you should read the Anandtech article. They claim the high performance CPU cores in the A14 are more powerful than anything Intel makes and is on par with AMD’s Zen3. That was the A14, not the M1, which they predict will be even more powerful simply because they can increase clock speed.
Don’t overlook the unified memory architecture that Apple can deploy, (as they own the whole stack) this will save 2x on a lot of common functions!
I suspect that the RAM being closely coupled to the SOC package is where a good chunk of their speed increase is coming from, not from the unified memory architecture itself. Being physically closer to the CPU cores should not be overlooked.
Which means it will be interesting to see how they handle larger desktop macs with larger memory demands. If they support off SOC RAM with those chips, we will get to see just how much of an impact that integrating memory directly onto the SOC makes.
Comparing mobile chips to the likes of 10900K...that is extremely laughable.
Comparing the upcoming desktop chips - I doubt Intel or AMD are laughing. The performance Apple has with mobile chips already bests all but the upper 1/3 of desktop chips out there. Strike that - didn't see the AnandTech charts - looks like Apple is already besting desktop chips with the A14. Yikes.
A purpose built desktop chip without thermal or battery constraints? I'm *very* interested to see how Apple will compare, especially with what we see from the A14 today.
I'm dubious of their claims. But i'm all for it if its true. I'll probably wait for M2 tho as I dont need anything right now.
One thought I had....
if these chips are so amazing.... why are they not making servers? using them in data centres, thats where power per watt really matters isnt it?
You're dubious of Apple's claims? So your position until you see evidence is that Apple is committing fraud by misrepresenting the capability of its hardware.
yea. you hit the nail on the head.
whats the best selling windows computer its meant to be so much better than? some $200 education machine.
Do you know what they're testing it against? Do you have any reason to believe it's a $200 education machine? No one has had it in their hands to test it for themselves and in real-world scenarios but I'd love to see any basis you have for claiming that *any* comparisons that Apple has made has been against entry level laptops, tablets, desktops, etc. Benchmarks and head-to-head tests can be artificial and maybe that might be a more helpful argument for you but please do some work before you comment like that. Your preposterous questions are so dumb they probably make onions cry.
lkrupp said: And we can see with our own eyes here, the theme of this thread has quickly turned to throwing shade on the M1 before it’s even in user’s hands. Those whose agenda is to throw shade, FUD, and confusion on everything Apple will be out in force next week as machines arrive in user’s hands. These are the same ones who call some of us fanboys while they are the exact opposite of fanboy. You don't have street cred here unless you dump on Apple at every opportunity. Being positive about Apple is taboo. Only negativity rules the day in Apple tech blogs.
I've seen the same tired arguments since 1986 when I started using my first Mac. They were silly and didn't affect the value of the Mac to me back then, and they are still silly and don't affect the value of the Mac to me today either
It always amuses me how insecure some people are that they feel so threatened by what *others* do. Pro tip for a happy life - don't worry about what the other guy is doing, focus on being the best person you can be. Then again that takes self awareness and introspection
Comments
“Okay, so they might dump Intel, but they’ll go to AMD.”
“Okay, they’re going to use an A14! How will that compete with AMD?”
“OKAY, BUT ANDROID STILL HAS THE BIGGLIEST MARKETSHARE!”
I think that covers everything.
Efficiency matters everywhere, not just in data centers. It allows you to push up performance without using more power and generating more heat. This is how and why the new MacBook Air does not need fan, but has 3x the performance as the Intel model.
You know that you can go to AnandTech's website to see why the Apple A13 scored a 63.3 on the SPECiint2006 test, right? Of course, that takes a little effort on your part so I guess I shouldn't hold my breath.
Apple just leapt at least three years of anyone else. No one else has the control over software, hardware, and application ecosystem like Apple does, @Pjs, and this is a major milestone. Nothing that Windows can do can touch this for at least a few years. The ARM attempts from Microsoft haven't had the adoption they need and because of the ways that Windows is used it will always be niche.
Windows computers can't follow the leader into very powerful multi-day battery life and fan-free computers here but all the manufacturers know that. It'll be interesting to watch how Microsoft and Windows machines innovate in other ways but I can't see anything that will provide as much of an open blue sky as the M1 is for MacOS and Apple computers.
edit: grammar
It's going to be fun! Hopefully moderators use a heavy hand and moderate out the straight insults but leave the technical posts for all to see.
Perhaps you should read the Anandtech article. They claim the high performance CPU cores in the A14 are more powerful than anything Intel makes and is on par with AMD’s Zen3. That was the A14, not the M1, which they predict will be even more powerful simply because they can increase clock speed.
Comparing the upcoming desktop chips - I doubt Intel or AMD are laughing. The performance Apple has with mobile chips already bests all but the upper 1/3 of desktop chips out there. Strike that - didn't see the AnandTech charts - looks like Apple is already besting desktop chips with the A14. Yikes.
A purpose built desktop chip without thermal or battery constraints? I'm *very* interested to see how Apple will compare, especially with what we see from the A14 today.
It always amuses me how insecure some people are that they feel so threatened by what *others* do. Pro tip for a happy life - don't worry about what the other guy is doing, focus on being the best person you can be. Then again that takes self awareness and introspection