Whisperings of 970 in the 15" AlBook

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 82
    hegorhegor Posts: 160member
    I am amazed that any bit of credibility is being placed on this rumor. Let me repeat for the naive. The 970 will not debut in the Powerbook before it debuts in the Power Mac. I repeat, the 970 will not debut in the Powerbook before it debuts in the Power Mac. I'm willing to take reasonable wagers with a select few on this (there is a chance that Jobs could lose his mind).



    While the Powerbook may be a more profitable item than the Power Mac, the PM is the center of the Mac technological universe. While other lines may get an occasion goody (firewire 800 on PB first, and AGP on iBook first), any radical earth shattering changes go to PM first!
  • Reply 22 of 82
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hegor

    I am amazed that any bit of credibility is being placed on this rumor. Let me repeat for the naive. The 970 will not debut in the Powerbook before it debuts in the Power Mac. I repeat, the 970 will not debut in the Powerbook before it debuts in the Power Mac. I'm willing to take reasonable wagers with a select few on this (there is a chance that Jobs could lose his mind).



    Why would this involve Jobs losing his mind? The PowerBook is a standalone workstation now, and a very popular one. Even the iBook is an excellent standalone machine for home, education and light work.



    Quote:

    While the Powerbook may be a more profitable item than the Power Mac, the PM is the center of the Mac technological universe. While other lines may get an occasion goody (firewire 800 on PB first, and AGP on iBook first), any radical earth shattering changes go to PM first!



    The only reason for that is that it's easier to stick new tech in a tower. I would bet that the PowerMac is not even close to the center of the Mac universe as far as Steve is concerned. He's always preferred AIOs, and he's always wanted to bring the Mac to the masses, so I'd guess that he's enthusiastic about both the iMac and the 'books. The PM can get the 970 at about the same time that the PowerBook does, and then neither half of the professional line is gimped relative to the other. The PowerMac will of course have the advantages that a desktop can have (fast HDDs, more expansion options, SMP), and the PowerBook will continue to be a viable primary machine for high-end professional work. I would be really surprised if it was all that hard to stuff a 19W 970 into the current PowerBooks. IIRC it's only about 4W hotter than the 7455 that's sitting in their now, and that's not counting the L3 cache in the higher end models.



    The days are long since past when notebooks were only suited for light work, or as secondary machines for road warriors. They have arrived. Would Steve have predicted that notebooks would make up half or more of Apple's total sales if they were that compromised in power relative to the desktops? As it stands they're already at a significant disadvantage in terms of raw horsepower.
  • Reply 23 of 82
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hegor

    Why put a cpu in the PB that would make the towers look crippled in comparison



    First of all, a dual [email protected] is not at all crippled compared to, say, a single PPC970@1GHz. Second, if Apple knows that PowerMacs will get PPC970 at some 1.8GHz late summer (i.e. in several months), they will not scare customers with a PowerBook. Third, whatever products they make, they want to sell them all, PowerBooks included.

    Chances are, they already have a sufficient supply of 'slow' PPC970. If so, why put G4s in an old model when there is a similar one ready for PPC970? Why delay sales of PowerBooks with PPC970 until the introduction of new PowerMacs? I don't see a reasonable excuse.
  • Reply 24 of 82
    drboardrboar Posts: 477member
    A dual 1.42 G4 might not be crippled compared to a single 1 GHz 970 on one hand. On the other hand all comparisons so far is very theoretic, we know about estimated SPEC marks but we have no real idea how the 970 really will behave in OS X.



    If Apple release a 1 GHz 970 PB and it is comparable to a dual 1.42 it does not take much to figure out how a dual 1.8 970 tower would fare. Not good for G4 tower sales. If Apple release a 970 PB it would work it it is one or at the most two months ahead of the 970 towers and that they accept the standstill of the allredy slow tower sales to get even more excitement around the powerbooks.



    The towers are the weekest part of the Apple line up hand has been so for several years. The CPU have trailed since 1999 and the sound system is also way behind. For a substantial time Apple also supplied the towers with marginaly useful video playback functions while the PC got far more useful CDR function. The fact that the towers is trailing a bit with regards to ATI cards really does not matter much with the current CPUs but is should be adressed when the 970 comes.



    So a 970 debute in the PB is possible but the towers better be right behind8)
  • Reply 25 of 82
    netromacnetromac Posts: 863member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by costique

    Chances are, they already have a sufficient supply of 'slow' PPC970. If so, why put G4s in an old model when there is a similar one ready for PPC970? Why delay sales of PowerBooks with PPC970 until the introduction of new PowerMacs? I don't see a reasonable excuse.



    What about the question of pissing off the people that has just gotten their 17" PowerBooks. Some of them ordered it in January and Apple has just started to ship them. If they would introduce a new 970 PowerBook, even if it's the 15", i guess some people would be very angry. I guess that if you asked people to make a choice between a 15" 970 and the 17" G4 a lot of them would take the one equipped with the 64bit 970 processor.



    The PowerMac on the other hand is a different story. People have known for some time now that there's new 970 equipped PMs around the corner, and they havent just recently introduced a radical new model of the PM either, just faster and cheaper ones.



    My bet is that we'll see a preview/introduction of the new PMs at the WWDC with shipping starting around Aug/Sept. The 970 PowerBooks may be unveiled at some special event later in the year.
  • Reply 26 of 82
    jwdawsojwdawso Posts: 389member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by NETROMac

    What about the question of pissing off the people that has just gotten their 17" PowerBooks. Some of them ordered it in January and Apple has just started to ship them. If they would introduce a new 970 PowerBook, even if it's the 15", i guess some people would be very angry. I guess that if you asked people to make a choice between a 15" 970 and the 17" G4 a lot of them would take the one equipped with the 64bit 970 processor.



    The PowerMac on the other hand is a different story. People have known for some time now that there's new 970 equipped PMs around the corner, and they havent just recently introduced a radical new model of the PM either, just faster and cheaper ones.



    My bet is that we'll see a preview/introduction of the new PMs at the WWDC with shipping starting around Aug/Sept. The 970 PowerBooks may be unveiled at some special event later in the year.




    Usually I would say if the technology is available and Apple is ready to deliver it, Apple will without regard to what people had previously bought. But in this case, I just can't see Apple releasing the 17" with a G4 with the knowledge that they will be releasing the 15" a few months later with the PPC970. I am anxiously awaiting like everybody else here for the "G5" (and the wait has been way too long), so I am hoping that the 15" will be released with it, but I don't think it will.



    My prediction - PowerMac PPC970 announced at WWDC, "Good" shipping immediately, "Better" & "Best" shipping weeks later. Updated PB's this fall with Mot 7457 - cooler, faster, faster memory, longer battery life. PB's get the PPC970 next year; iMac, eMac, iBook get 7457 or 7447 next year - all at 1.42GHz or better. Purely speculation on my part, but I'm a believer that the PPC970 will require a new motherboard, whereas the 7457 can slip into the current motherboards. The PPC970 will take care of the PowerMac performance problem, and the 7457 will continue the PowerBook/iBook dominance.
  • Reply 27 of 82
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by NETROMac

    What about the question of pissing off the people that has just gotten their 17" PowerBooks.



    This question is raised every time there's a mumbling that Apple will significantly update a product, and the answer is always the same: The people who bought the machines thought they were worth the money at the time. They got the machine they paid for. If they don't know that models are being updated constantly, they've had their heads buried in the sand for the last 20 years.



    Apple allows you to trade up if you bought a product within 10 days of a revision, and they also auto-upgrade any pending orders for old product. That's the best you can hope for.



    Let me turn the question around: Given that Apple is currently going nowhere fast on the G4, and given that IBM appears to be ready to sell them 970s by the trainload, why on Earth would Apple not offer their customers the most compelling product they can as soon as they can? This is not going to be a mere speedbump, so the usual rules don't apply.



    For what it's worth, Fred Anderson has pegged this as part of Apple's strategy: They'll put out the best products they can, economy notwithstanding, so that no matter when it turns around they'll be ready.
  • Reply 28 of 82
    bandalaybandalay Posts: 116member
    And now...



    Macwhisper is updating the story to read that both 17" and 15" moving to 970.



    Perhaps there will be an upgrade path to those that are only now receiving their 17" books...
  • Reply 29 of 82
    trydtryd Posts: 143member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorph

    This question is raised every time there's a mumbling that Apple will significantly update a product, and the answer is always the same: The people who bought the machines thought they were worth the money at the time. They got the machine they paid for. If they don't know that models are being updated constantly, they've had their heads buried in the sand for the last 20 years.



    Well - I ordered my 17" PB on Feb. 6th. I prepaid with a personal cheque. They still quote a delivery date of May 15th.

    So if there is a new 970-based 17" PB coming out in June, I will have had my PB 3-4 weeks. Apple will have had my money for about 3 months.

    Yes - I thought it was worth the money at the time (Feb. 6th).I wouldn't mind if I got my machine in February and a new, 970-based PB was released in June. I wouldn't even mind if I get my machine before easter and a new machine is released in June.



    But I will mind if i get my machine on May 15th, and a new one is released in June.
  • Reply 30 of 82
    bandalaybandalay Posts: 116member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tryd

    But I will mind if i get my machine on May 15th, and a new one is released in June. [/B]



    I would imagine we wouldn't see these boys until September (or whenever the Panther OS upgrade is released) - or perhaps the 15" would lead (as it's next due for upgrade) sooner.
  • Reply 31 of 82
    bandalaybandalay Posts: 116member
    Some major grains of salt for anything posted to macwhispers:



    http://www.macintouch.com/mactable.html



    (thnks R)
  • Reply 32 of 82
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    I wouldn't be surprised by an all out blitz with Apple product and the 970.



    The 970 gives them tremendous flexibility and power. IBM gives them the capability to deliver.



    Apple of the G4 era may go clean through the window. A 970 in a laptop by Macworld 'New York' is really storming the gates. We may even see the 970 in the imac sooner than we did with the G4...



    'Year of the laptop?'



    We'll see.



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 33 of 82
    hasapihasapi Posts: 290member
    Fact is Im so confused!. Maybe Apple too is so confused!



    Why not update the 15" Al soon after the 12/17" were announced?



    Why would rumours report 970 15" before 17" & Pmacs?



    BTW - the 970 19W@ 1.2G is cooler than a G4 7455 30W@1G - so its likely that Apple would simply dump the G4 for the 970 immediately. Remember the Pmacs will be 1.4-1.8 in SP's & DP's, so 1-1.2G PB's fit nicely - i would interested to see what battery life effects the changes make (cooler cpu/faster bus/ram??).



    Also, a dual 970 PB (rumoured 2004) will be available when IBM moves the 970 production to the 0.09um process (actual IBM report), so this is not a stretch, and makes sense when you are now selling 17" "laptops".



    The G4 7457 with typical power @ just 7.5W - is not shipping yet, surprise, surprise (2H 2003). Perfect for the iBook to upgrade to the G4 when this chip is shipping in volume.



    At least the iMacs will get speed bumps to 1.42GHz (available now), before they get the new 850's from IBM which will address the ceiling issues MOTO has with the G4.



    Timing?, Ill leave that to Cupertino.
  • Reply 34 of 82
    dhagan4755dhagan4755 Posts: 2,152member
    NAB is next week...



    Aside from the new apps expected, such as FCP 4 and DVD SP 2, could we perhaps see the major announcement of the 970 in the PowerBook? Far-fetched I suppose, but possible?
  • Reply 35 of 82
    All I can say is....15" PowerBook with an IBM 970....I'll buy that the day it comes out...It's exactly what I've been waiting for.
  • Reply 36 of 82
    murbotmurbot Posts: 5,262member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bandalay

    Some major grains of salt for anything posted to macwhispers:



    http://www.macintouch.com/mactable.html



    (thnks R)




    Ahem.



  • Reply 37 of 82
    ensign pulverensign pulver Posts: 1,193member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bandalay

    And now...



    Macwhisper is updating the story to read that both 17" and 15" moving to 970.



    Perhaps there will be an upgrade path to those that are only now receiving their 17" books...




    Yeah, right.
  • Reply 38 of 82
    bandalaybandalay Posts: 116member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by murbot

    Ahem.







    What?
  • Reply 39 of 82
    neutrino23neutrino23 Posts: 1,561member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hasapi

    Fact is Im so confused!. Maybe Apple too is so confused!



    Why not update the 15" Al soon after the 12/17" were announced?



    Why would rumours report 970 15" before 17" & Pmacs?



    (snip)



    Timing?, Ill leave that to Cupertino.




    I imagine that they worked first on getting the 12 and 17 in PBs out the door then turned their attention to the 15 inch to upgrade that to the Al format.



    Suppose that Apple was expecting volume shipments of 970s around mid summer then IBM comes to them a couple of weeks ago and says "Hey Apple. Guess what? We're ahead of schedule. You can start taking shipments of (some hundred thousand) cpus per month right now.



    What does Apple do then? Time to market is extremely important. A three month head start could mean one extra quarter of sales for the year. That adds a lot to the bottom line. It also insulates them somewhat from higher clocked Pentiums coming out later in the year (I assume).



    On the other hand, if they upgrade the PBs to the 970 right away that would certainly upset some users who bought the new PBs on the expectation that that would be the best computer available for perhaps six months or so. Not to mention possible technical problems that they might enounter.
  • Reply 40 of 82
    herbivoreherbivore Posts: 132member
    I can't wait. To think of being able to use a portable computer based on the 970 is absolutely fantastatic. I'd like to see the benchmarks comparing this to a Centrino based system. If IBM is truly able to deliver the chips in sufficient quantities, this will be the year of the laptop. It is going to be very hard to decide between a single 970 laptop versus a dual 970 desktop. Apple may have a couple of homeruns on their hands. The first being OS X and the second being the PowerPC 970. I know that I will be ready to spend some cash when these new machines are released. Does anyone have any idea of when that might be?
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