Oracle will move headquarters to Texas from California

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 62
    danoxdanox Posts: 1,161member
    JWSC said:
    danox said:
    JWSC said:
    danox said:
    karmadave said:
    Most employees will remain where they are or work from home. My own company, Dell, is based in Austin but has operations globally. This really doesn't change much. Companies will still pay state income taxes, on their local operations, and employees will still pay taxes in the state they reside. That said, I agree that California could take steps to make the state much more business friendly. 
    What give away more? The post secondary schools in Texas are second rate when compared to California. Oracle has decided to get the second or third tier student by moving to Texas.

    Oracle are they first tier in tech anymore? they won’t find what they need in the Southeastern part of the USA. The west coast prominence doesn’t come from giving away freebies (southeast), the social part, environment, great post-secondary schools, and tolerance plays a big part those don’t exist in the American south or in most of the world.
    That’s a rather provincial and elitist view of Texas and middle America.  And I’ll tell you, you’re wrong.  Austin in particular is a powerhouse culturally with its vibrant music scene, its thriving tech industry, and universities.  Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio have their own powerful draws for people and business.  Do not underestimate the people and the place.

    California has its venture capital class, which has given it its edge.  But the more industries that take their businesses out of California, the more venture capitalists will follow in exodus.  California is living on borrowed time with its willful destruction of its key power infrastructure, resulting in lower-income-unfriendly skyrocketing energy prices. It’s extraordinarily high tax rate and industry crushing regulation has put manufacturing on its knees, driving countless numbers out of work and out of state.

    The ethical consequences of wealthy suburban white color desk bound workers dominating the politics of environmental over the economic security of the working class are clear and it does not look good.
    California economy is nearly 40% larger than Texas and more diverse to boot, and the post-secondary schools are on another level from what is in Texas, elitist? Yes, I’m much better off being in Cali instead of Tennessee and Texas thank you mom, dad for getting out of those backward hellhole states.

    Those that work for Oracle that end up in Texas will be getting a pay cut for moving, cause it’s cheaper you know, well at least it isn’t Florida. :)
    Wow.  Doubling down on elitism and provincialism.  Bravo!  I didn’t see that coming.

    Or, maybe you need to travel more outside your bubble.
    When it comes to Texas, Tennessee, yes sir, Jackie Robinson had in particular Texas and Fort Hood right worthless.... good luck Oracle employee’s another step lower on the tech ladder....
  • Reply 42 of 62
    danox said:
    jcc said:
    Tech moving away will spell the end of America’s dominance in the tech sphere as the previous concentration afforded an environment that was conducive to new ideas and the people that create it.
    What are you talking about? It’s clear the new tech corridors are going to be in States like Arizona, Texas, etc. Where these companies go, the money and the employees will follow.
    Dell and Texas Instruments don’t count as tier 1.
    From 2019:  https://www.southstarcommunities.com/blog/companies-leave-california-bound-for-texas

    Also:  https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2019/12/10/almost-700000-californians-moved-out-of-state-last-year/

    And 2020:  https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2020/12/10/california-relocations-dallas.html
    anantksundaramjust cruisinJWSC
  • Reply 43 of 62
    danox said:
    JWSC said:
    danox said:
    JWSC said:
    danox said:
    karmadave said:
    Most employees will remain where they are or work from home. My own company, Dell, is based in Austin but has operations globally. This really doesn't change much. Companies will still pay state income taxes, on their local operations, and employees will still pay taxes in the state they reside. That said, I agree that California could take steps to make the state much more business friendly. 
    What give away more? The post secondary schools in Texas are second rate when compared to California. Oracle has decided to get the second or third tier student by moving to Texas.

    Oracle are they first tier in tech anymore? they won’t find what they need in the Southeastern part of the USA. The west coast prominence doesn’t come from giving away freebies (southeast), the social part, environment, great post-secondary schools, and tolerance plays a big part those don’t exist in the American south or in most of the world.
    That’s a rather provincial and elitist view of Texas and middle America.  And I’ll tell you, you’re wrong.  Austin in particular is a powerhouse culturally with its vibrant music scene, its thriving tech industry, and universities.  Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio have their own powerful draws for people and business.  Do not underestimate the people and the place.

    California has its venture capital class, which has given it its edge.  But the more industries that take their businesses out of California, the more venture capitalists will follow in exodus.  California is living on borrowed time with its willful destruction of its key power infrastructure, resulting in lower-income-unfriendly skyrocketing energy prices. It’s extraordinarily high tax rate and industry crushing regulation has put manufacturing on its knees, driving countless numbers out of work and out of state.

    The ethical consequences of wealthy suburban white color desk bound workers dominating the politics of environmental over the economic security of the working class are clear and it does not look good.
    California economy is nearly 40% larger than Texas and more diverse to boot, and the post-secondary schools are on another level from what is in Texas, elitist? Yes, I’m much better off being in Cali instead of Tennessee and Texas thank you mom, dad for getting out of those backward hellhole states.

    Those that work for Oracle that end up in Texas will be getting a pay cut for moving, cause it’s cheaper you know, well at least it isn’t Florida. :)
    Wow.  Doubling down on elitism and provincialism.  Bravo!  I didn’t see that coming.

    Or, maybe you need to travel more outside your bubble.
    When it comes to Texas, Tennessee, yes sir, Jackie Robinson had in particular Texas and Fort Hood right worthless.... good luck Oracle employee’s another step lower on the tech ladder....
    Just an ignorant and reality-avoiding comment.
    just cruisinanantksundaramJWSC
  • Reply 44 of 62
    jcc said:
    Tech moving away will spell the end of America’s dominance in the tech sphere as the previous concentration afforded an environment that was conducive to new ideas and the people that create it.
    Texas hasn’t seceded yet. The last time they tried, it didn’t end too well, either, so I wouldn’t be worried of this possibility if I were you.
  • Reply 45 of 62
    Not a single well paid engineer will leave California for Texas. 
    Hubris
    texflaanantksundaramchristophbJWSC
  • Reply 46 of 62
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,381member
    I know that everyone is jonesing to talk about politics at every opportunity, but if you look at these big corporate moves, like GE moving its HQ to Boston or Boeing moving its HQ to Chicago, or my favorite, Eaton moving its HQ from Ohio to Dublin, Ireland, you'll see that it's always motivated by financial reasons like taxes and/or sweetheart deals and subsidies at the new host location. Same deal with very wealthy folks picking their "residency of convenience." 

    Sorry, but everything is not about politics. Money is still the primary driver for the 10% who are on the other side of the great wealth divide, i.e., those who hold 80% of all wealth in America. Politics is just a highly effective means of keeping the other 90% all twisted up their skivvies or bunched up in their panties over stuff they have no control over while the 10% are busy building their wealth and looking out for their own best interests.

    You can go ahead and waste as much of your time as you'd like arguing about Blue versus Red issues, but the people who really know how to play the game for their own advantage are all about the Green.

    If moving to Texas means more Green, start packing the u-haul. 
    roundaboutnowdysamoriaAI_lias
  • Reply 47 of 62
    Not a single well paid engineer will leave California for Texas. 
    Hubris
    Yep. There is already a very large engineer population there due to various car companies moving out of California for Texas (and other states, like Tennessee). California’s overregulated, anti-business environment is the creation of ONE political party which is basically unopposed in their decision making.
    just cruisinlkruppJWSC
  • Reply 48 of 62
    hodarhodar Posts: 348member
    spice-boy said:
    This is great news, looks like the Democrats will continue to turn Texan into a Blue state. Great for America. 

    Have you ever noticed that nice, low crime areas, where schools are effective, roads and bridges are maintained, people are polite and you are generally safe - are NOT Democratic areas?
    Places that become Democratic, tend to have much higher crime rates, lower education levels, their infrastructure is a complete mess, jobs are fewer, opportunities are more infrequenct, and businesses are taxed to the point that they are no longer profitable in Democratic areas?  Drugs, Gangs and trash soon follow.  May I offer some examples?  Detroit, Chicago, New York City, New Orleans, Compton, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Los Angeles, St. Lois as some openers.

    People move, and they seem to think that the more social programs that failed so miserably where they were - and were the REASON they were forced to move; will magically work better when they move to a new place that doesn't have those same programs.  Has it occurred to you that the reason the place you moved to, is BECAUSE it doesn't have those soul-killing programs?

    It's the same air, we drink the same water, drink the same soda, we see the same stars, we farm the same soil.  All one has to do is look at cause and effect.  Name a single prosperous socialist state - in the history of mankind.  Name a highly successful, clean, safe, Democratic city.

    It may come as a shock, but of the top 10 largest cities in America, Dallas. Fort Worth, Houston and San Antonio are all located in Texas.  Compared to the other large cities, they are relatively low crime - they are relatively safe, prosperous.  It isn't the TexMex food.  As they get more Democratic, the things that make them attractive, become those things that make them unattractive.
    SpamSandwichanantksundaramjust cruisin
  • Reply 49 of 62
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    hmlongco said:
    sflocal said:
    ...and best of all, their state government stays out of the way.
    I assume that's code for letting corporations and business do whatever the hell they want?

    My take on it is simply that office space, cost-of-living and housing has grown so high in the Bay area that moving elsewhere seems like a good deal. 

    Unfortunately for your rant, in all likelihood the net result of all of those people moving to Austin is that AUSTIN real estate prices are going to start skyrocketing, and that all of those transplanted people are going to want the same level of services they once had in CA.

    The same exact thing happened to Colorado and Denver and Boulder a couple of decades ago when the tech boom hit with people moving there from CA... with the same exact result. Housing and COL went up, and the state started going Blue...
    Exactly. His anti-socialist rant is a bunch of obsolete 1950s Cold War propaganda, reheated for the misdirected use of irrationally hating on California and “the liberals”. California was taken advantage of by the tech industry, just as it has everywhere else it has flourished.

    The amount of taxes that should have come into the society from monstrous tech industry business should have made California a lot less expensive, but instead the reverse happened. They gentrified the regions, but didn’t contribute to the community wealth. So the minority of well-paid tech bros enjoyed the gentrification, established or calcified preexisting anti-government “taxation is theft” ideologies, and eventually they & their corporate overlords (for those who didn’t become corporate overlords themselves) decided “hey we can take advantage of cheaper states for even MOAR PROFIT!” and “the exodus” began... all while scapegoating government and “the liberals” for what they themselves caused.

    Texas should prepare for extensive gentrification, and know that it’s corporatism, not “the liberals”, causing it. If Texas doesn’t already have very strong tax law to get money out of the corporations within their borders, they should establish such law ASAP (and I’m assuming they don’t, because that’s likely part of what’s fueling the tech corp exodus).
    ronn
  • Reply 50 of 62
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member

    macseeker said:
    Just hope the employees of Oracle doesn't bring the crazy California ideals to Texas.  The California ideals will destroy Texas and especially Oracle.  Oracle will die then.  I'm from Texas but living in California.  Yes, very odd.  The California State legislation has no idea what reality is about.  Newsom is living in his own bubble.  From the various news stories, they think they can flaunt the laws and regulations of what we can do.  I've had it with state politicians here thinking they're above everyone else.  They love to speak with forked tongue.  The low and middle class people are the ones the California state government loves to shaft.

    Again, I just hope the Oracle employees doesn't bring the California ideals with them.  They need to know the true reality outside of California.

    Just my thoughts.
    When was the last time you heard a progressive Democrat abandon their ideas in favor of conservatism?
    “Democrats” abandon progressive ideals for capitalism, not conservatism. Conservatism comes along on its own afterward, as they’re trying to maintain the status quo they created and rely on for their dominance & wealth.
  • Reply 51 of 62
    hodar said:
    spice-boy said:
    This is great news, looks like the Democrats will continue to turn Texan into a Blue state. Great for America. 

    Have you ever noticed that nice, low crime areas, where schools are effective, roads and bridges are maintained, people are polite and you are generally safe - are NOT Democratic areas?
    Places that become Democratic, tend to have much higher crime rates, lower education levels, their infrastructure is a complete mess, jobs are fewer, opportunities are more infrequenct, and businesses are taxed to the point that they are no longer profitable in Democratic areas?  Drugs, Gangs and trash soon follow.  May I offer some examples?  Detroit, Chicago, New York City, New Orleans, Compton, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Los Angeles, St. Lois as some openers.

    People move, and they seem to think that the more social programs that failed so miserably where they were - and were the REASON they were forced to move; will magically work better when they move to a new place that doesn't have those same programs.  Has it occurred to you that the reason the place you moved to, is BECAUSE it doesn't have those soul-killing programs?

    It's the same air, we drink the same water, drink the same soda, we see the same stars, we farm the same soil.  All one has to do is look at cause and effect.  Name a single prosperous socialist state - in the history of mankind.  Name a highly successful, clean, safe, Democratic city.

    It may come as a shock, but of the top 10 largest cities in America, Dallas. Fort Worth, Houston and San Antonio are all located in Texas.  Compared to the other large cities, they are relatively low crime - they are relatively safe, prosperous.  It isn't the TexMex food.  As they get more Democratic, the things that make them attractive, become those things that make them unattractive.
    Don’t forget about New York City. A disaster no matter how you slice it under Bill de Blasio.
    just cruisin
  • Reply 52 of 62
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    That “democrat hellhole cities” bullshit above...  What a load. As someone said above, it’s not political, it’s capitalist. While I’d argue that capitalism is still politics (wherever there are humans, there are politics, and the religious fervor with which people defend an irrational system is well indicated), it’s certainly not a democrat vs republican issue. Both parties are entirely owned by corporations.

    The duopoly is bad because of unregulated capitalism, which is the central tenant of both parties. One party just happens to be overt about it while the other puts on a weak show of regulation.

    When the burden of society is put on individuals, with corporations avoiding paying fairly into the tax system due to pro-corporate tax law (caused by the revolving door between corporations & government), you end up with gentrified communities for the few, and ghettoized communities for the rest. Those elite privileged few will then set the stage for declaring what is good and bad, and what business schools instruct on economics.

    Don’t talk about drugs unless you recognize that the biggest problem there is a foolish “drug war” that’s turned into its own industrial complex, and the ultimate cause isn’t “bad character”; It’s social pressure (say hello to job and financial stress) and a national healthcare failure (people don’t become addicts of pain meds just for the hell of it). Both parties went ape shit over the drug war bullshit. It’s not partisan when it’s caused by both parties.

    Laissez-faire capitalism destroys everything wherever it is allowed to persist. Trying to single out Democrats and scapegoat progressives/liberals is intellectual laziness at best and overt dishonesty otherwise (such as people whose personal financial interests benefit from these myths that require blaming individuals for the harms of capitalism). It’s also unfair NOT to give the democrat party a share of the blame, because it isn’t just republicans.

    To be fair, the corporate republicans are almost more honest about their capitalist aims when compared to the corporatist democrats who mask their corporatism in platitudes or mere silence when confronted by inquiries into their response to corporatism. If this wasn’t a fact, we’d not have the democrat party fighting *its own party members* just to ensure the exclusion of clearly preferred candidates like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren.

    Make no mistake: the worst enemy in this context is unfettered greed and unregulated corporations that have control of both parties.

    Last comment: if the leadership wasn’t waiting in line for food, side-by-side with the citizens, it wasn’t a socialist nation.
    danox
  • Reply 53 of 62

    Well… there goes the neighborhood.  It wasn’t California that turn itself upside down, it was the people.  They finally got to the point they can’t stand their own built society.  Now they’re headed for Texas and taking their radical thinking ways with them.  It’s just a matter of time before they ruin that state too.  Texas better prepare.  

    lkruppSpamSandwich
  • Reply 54 of 62
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    spice-boy said:
    sflocal said:
    hmlongco said:
    sflocal said:
    ...and best of all, their state government stays out of the way.
    I assume that's code for letting corporations and business do whatever the hell they want?

    My take on it is simply that office space, cost-of-living and housing has grown so high in the Bay area that moving elsewhere seems like a good deal. 

    Unfortunately for your rant, in all likelihood the net result of all of those people moving to Austin is that AUSTIN real estate prices are going to start skyrocketing, and that all of those transplanted people are going to want the same level of services they once had in CA.

    The same exact thing happened to Colorado and Denver and Boulder a couple of decades ago when the tech boom hit with people moving there from CA... with the same exact result. Housing and COL went up, and the state started going Blue...
    California has the highest income tax rate in the U.S.  What services will Texans want that California "had"?  I see California raking in billions of dollars each year, yet our roads and bridges are in shambles, our public schools are broke, yet government workers continue to rake in their high salaries, gold-plated benefits, while telling everyone to stay home, killing businesses while Newsom dines at French Laundry.

    Businesses provide jobs.  Jobs fuel the economy.  How California treats businesses versus Texas is a very different thing.  People are moving to Texas too so they must be doing something right.

    Yes, people will move to Texas and other businesses and soon causing housing prices to go up.  I'll bet Texas will be in a better position to deal with a good problem to have than anything remotely close to what California has done.

    Yeah, I have no problem my rant. 
    You are forgetting one thing, Texas will never be California in the best way. Taxes improve lives, cities and society at least they did before tax laws were re-writen to only benefit the wealthiest. 
    Yep, where else can you poop on the street and no one cares because it is your right to poop whenever and where ever you want? Viva California!
    JWSC said:
    danox said:
    karmadave said:
    Most employees will remain where they are or work from home. My own company, Dell, is based in Austin but has operations globally. This really doesn't change much. Companies will still pay state income taxes, on their local operations, and employees will still pay taxes in the state they reside. That said, I agree that California could take steps to make the state much more business friendly. 
    What give away more? The post secondary schools in Texas are second rate when compared to California. Oracle has decided to get the second or third tier student by moving to Texas.

    Oracle are they first tier in tech anymore? they won’t find what they need in the Southeastern part of the USA. The west coast prominence doesn’t come from giving away freebies (southeast), the social part, environment, great post-secondary schools, and tolerance plays a big part those don’t exist in the American south or in most of the world.
    That’s a rather provincial and elitist view of Texas and middle America.  And I’ll tell you, you’re wrong.  Austin in particular is a powerhouse culturally with its vibrant music scene, its thriving tech industry, and universities.  Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio have their own powerful draws for people and business.  Do not underestimate the people and the place.

    California has its venture capital class, which has given it its edge.  But the more industries that take their businesses out of California, the more venture capitalists will follow in exodus.  California is living on borrowed time with its willful destruction of its key power infrastructure, resulting in lower-income-unfriendly skyrocketing energy prices. It’s extraordinarily high tax rate and industry crushing regulation has put manufacturing on its knees, driving countless numbers out of work and out of state.

    The ethical consequences of wealthy suburban white color desk bound workers dominating the politics of environmental over the economic security of the working class are clear and it does not look good.
    You forgot to include all the meth-heads roaming the streets like zombies. The ones Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio put on buses and ship over to them.

  • Reply 55 of 62
    As always, if you're moving your business to avoid taxes then it doesn't make sense to claim that the state itself is really gaining much from the move. California is losing some tax revenue but Texas is just getting another group of people that don't want to pay taxes. 
  • Reply 56 of 62
    As always, if you're moving your business to avoid taxes then it doesn't make sense to claim that the state itself is really gaining much from the move. California is losing some tax revenue but Texas is just getting another group of people that don't want to pay taxes. 
    I just marvel at how well-informed this post is.

    /s
    just cruisinJWSC
  • Reply 57 of 62
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,381member
    As always, if you're moving your business to avoid taxes then it doesn't make sense to claim that the state itself is really gaining much from the move. California is losing some tax revenue but Texas is just getting another group of people that don't want to pay taxes. 
    It's never taxes alone, but lower taxes are definitely a very big incentive. Things like access to transportation systems, fewer regulations, healthy business climate for start-ups, access to the right labor force, livability, housing costs, climate, quality education, etc., are all part of the mix. There are several states that have lower taxes than California, including zero personal income tax states like Texas, Tennessee, and Florida, but not all of those states have the right combination of factors to justify a big move for a corporation. And California, as the 5th largest economy on the planet, still has a ton of things working in its favor. It's also never a case of escaping taxes altogether. States that don't have income taxes still need to pay for public services and infrastructure. They're simply going to find other ways to pay for these, like steep sale/use taxes, property taxes, and service fees. You can run, but you can never totally hide from the tax man.
    JWSC
  • Reply 58 of 62
    XedXed Posts: 1,475member
    bluefire1 said:
    jeff_cook said:
    Arizona turned Blue because of the exodus from California.  Texas is next due to the same effect.
    Does that mean California will eventually turn red?ߘ馬t;/div>
    When you look at CA's population and how much of the state continues to not vote against its interests in favor of bigots and faux-conservative conmen, CA residents could easily turn many states blue without turning themselves red. 

    As Bill Maher likes to point out, it's ridiculous that we even have two Dakotas (which have 4 senators compared to CA's two). For comparison, if you took the entire population of both Dakotas, it would still only be the 3rd largest city in CA.
    edited December 2020
  • Reply 59 of 62
    XedXed Posts: 1,475member
    hodar said:
    spice-boy said:
    This is great news, looks like the Democrats will continue to turn Texan into a Blue state. Great for America. 

    Have you ever noticed that nice, low crime areas, where schools are effective, roads and bridges are maintained, people are polite and you are generally safe - are NOT Democratic areas?
    Funny how Maine has the lowest crime per capita and votes predominately blue and Alaska has the highest crime per capita and votes predominately red. It's as if everything you wrote was a lie.

    "Maine experienced the lowest rate of approximately 120 violent crimes per 100,000 people, while Alaska experienced nearly 830 per 100,000 people."

    Of course, who's going to correct you at your Proud Boy(?) meeting. I bet you nod your head in agreement when Hannity refers to peaceful protestors against police violence as thugs and don't think twice when racists are beating and shooting people on video because of the color of their skin and for wearing masks. Of course, you probably aren't hearing about that on OANN—or maybe you're masturbating to hate crime videos on Parler. It could go either way with pro-fascists bigots.
    edited December 2020 ronn
  • Reply 60 of 62
    columbia said:

    Well… there goes the neighborhood.  It wasn’t California that turn itself upside down, it was the people.  They finally got to the point they can’t stand their own built society.  Now they’re headed for Texas and taking their radical thinking ways with them.  It’s just a matter of time before they ruin that state too.  Texas better prepare.  

    Texas should require a resident to live there 5-10 years before they’re allowed to vote. ;)
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