While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
It happened here in the U.S. at the turn of the 19th century where industry and government colluded with each other and government failed to protect the lives, rights and well being of its people.
That is what happened here: A company took advantage of the fact it was operating in an environment where it had impunity from government oversight -- so workers had little choice but to either accept the worker abuse or to take things into their own hands -- just like American workers did in the violent strikes and riots through the 20 years before and after 1900.
I’m not convinced there is strong evidence of collusion here. Maybe coming third world corruption at some level but it is pretty obvious here that the government has investigated here and apparently agrees with the workers. It just looks like Apple and Wistron thought that they could get away with the same crap that is normal in China.
India is well known for corruption.
This would not have happened in China -- it's a much cleaner place to do business in. That's why businesses migrated there instead of India.
The only reason Apple went to India at all was due to their extortion: "If you don't manufacture here, you don't sell here".
So Apple gave them a token plant -- which they abused -- as they so often happens in that corrupt country.
It wouldn't have happened in China because protests are illegal and enforcement is you get shot or run over with a tank. Have you conveniently managed to erase Tiananmen Square from your memory? Or does your Chinese employer not allow you to mention such embarrassing events?
Well well it would seem that both China and India are both ranked 80 out of 180 on the corruption index. Isn't that odd - how do you explain your way out of that one George?
Everyone that isn't you knows China is very corrupt. The CCP's policies almost require corruption for it to operate.
Yeh, but only if you believe the silly right wing spin and propaganda.
By the way, did you conveniently erase Kent State and the murdered black civil rights protestors from your memory? Or is it selective for anti-China hatred?
Poor George born and raised in the wrong country. You know Venezuela or Cuba will gladly take you. You can solve all their problems n minutes.
While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
Absolutely spot on!!! I also don't like Modi, and still couldn't see how someone can "extort" Apple so easily as George is claiming without any proof.
While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
So, if you coerce (or extort) many, then it is neither coercion nor extortion? Really?
Funny though: I don't recall any numbers or percentages in the definitions of either.
The truth is: India gave Apple a choice: Either manufacture here or forget about selling here. That fits the definition of both coercion and extortion. It also fits with India being corrupt. It's a form of protection racket: "It'd be a shame if something happened to all those nice iPhones of yours".
Because you may favor nationalistic policies doesn't change a thing.
And, like most shake downs, it is not going well. There's a reason why Apple and others don't want to get involved in any but the most superficial of industries there. It's called: A corrupt culture.
By the way: So you are really claiming that you are not a China-Hater nor that Modi is not a nationalistic fascist? OK..... I'm not sure what reality you are living in. But I hope its pleasant for you.
It happened here in the U.S. at the turn of the 19th century where industry and government colluded with each other and government failed to protect the lives, rights and well being of its people.
That is what happened here: A company took advantage of the fact it was operating in an environment where it had impunity from government oversight -- so workers had little choice but to either accept the worker abuse or to take things into their own hands -- just like American workers did in the violent strikes and riots through the 20 years before and after 1900.
I’m not convinced there is strong evidence of collusion here. Maybe coming third world corruption at some level but it is pretty obvious here that the government has investigated here and apparently agrees with the workers. It just looks like Apple and Wistron thought that they could get away with the same crap that is normal in China.
India is well known for corruption.
This would not have happened in China -- it's a much cleaner place to do business in. That's why businesses migrated there instead of India.
The only reason Apple went to India at all was due to their extortion: "If you don't manufacture here, you don't sell here".
So Apple gave them a token plant -- which they abused -- as they so often happens in that corrupt country.
It wouldn't have happened in China because protests are illegal and enforcement is you get shot or run over with a tank. Have you conveniently managed to erase Tiananmen Square from your memory? Or does your Chinese employer not allow you to mention such embarrassing events?
Well well it would seem that both China and India are both ranked 80 out of 180 on the corruption index. Isn't that odd - how do you explain your way out of that one George?
Everyone that isn't you knows China is very corrupt. The CCP's policies almost require corruption for it to operate.
Yeh, but only if you believe the silly right wing spin and propaganda.
By the way, did you conveniently erase Kent State and the murdered black civil rights protestors from your memory? Or is it selective for anti-China hatred?
Poor George born and raised in the wrong country. You know Venezuela or Cuba will gladly take you. You can solve all their problems n minutes.
No, I am a proud, patriotic American. You though I am not so sure of.
While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
Absolutely spot on!!! I also don't like Modi, and still couldn't see how someone can "extort" Apple so easily as George is claiming without any proof.
The proof is that they did. Because you were not aware of it doesn't make it any less true.
I find it funny though that, if China had done it the China-Haters would be up in arms throwing their usual temper tantrums. But, since it was India who did it they say: "This isn't extortion. It's normal!"
While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
Absolutely spot on!!! I also don't like Modi, and still couldn't see how someone can "extort" Apple so easily as George is claiming without any proof.
The proof is that they did. Because you were not aware of it doesn't make it any less true.
I find it funny though that, if China had done it the China-Haters would be up in arms throwing their usual temper tantrums. But, since it was India who did it they say: "This isn't extortion. It's normal!"
While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
So, if you coerce (or extort) many, then it is neither coercion nor extortion? Really? Funny though: I don't recall any numbers or percentages in the definitions of either.
The truth is: India gave Apple a choice: Either manufacture here or forget about selling here. That fits the definition of both coercion and extortion. It also fits with India being corrupt. It's a form of protection racket: "It'd be a shame if something happened to all those nice iPhones of yours".
Because you may favor nationalistic policies doesn't change a thing.
And, like most shake downs, it is not going well. There's a reason why Apple and others don't want to get involved in any but the most superficial of industries there. It's called: A corrupt culture.
By the way: So you are really claiming that you are not a China-Hater nor that Modi is not a nationalistic fascist? OK..... I'm not sure what reality you are living in. But I hope its pleasant for you.
India has no leverage over Apple, except via the laws and trade policies within its borders which Apple is under no obligation to operate within. Everything you claim is a fundamental misunderstanding of what extortion, coersion, and corruption actually are.
I didn't claim anything about Modi at all except that I don't like him. I don't hate China, I'm actually part Chinese by blood, though British in every other way. I also don't favour nationalistic policies, you're making things up again.
Seriously fuck off George, your constant lies and misrepresentations are beyond boring. Ignored for good.
Apple says no new business for supplier Wistron after India plant violence
Apple Inc on Saturday said it had placed contract manufacturer Wistron
on probation and would not give the Taiwanese firm new business until it
took corrective actions following lapses at its southern India plant.
Wistron
failed to implement proper working hour management processes, which “led
to payment delays for some workers in October and November,” Apple
said.
Apple will continue to monitor Wistron’s progress on corrective action, the Cupertino-California based company said.
“Our main objective is to make sure all the workers are treated with dignity and respect, and fully compensated promptly.”
Also from Reuters:
Wistron
introduced 12-hour shifts from the earlier eight-hour shifts at the
plant in October but failed to properly address “the confusion in the
minds of the workers” about their new wages inclusive of overtime, the
report noted.
Wistron,
which also changed its attendance system in October, did not fix for
two months a glitch which caused employees’ presence to be incorrectly
registered, the probe found.
Some
other violations highlighted in the report included underpayment of
wages to contract workers and housekeeping staff, and making women staff
work overtime without legal authorisation.
It's the same as Apple said about Pegatron China a couple of weeks ago.
Apple needs to be held accountable here. It’s bad enough that they are using slave labor in China, that will not be tolerated in a freer country like India. Beyond that the wages highlight just how low Apple will go to enhance margins. Exploitation is exactly that no matter how much you try to distance yourself. I really don’t think Cook grasps how bad his behavior is in this regard.
Slave labor is used according to American living standard. In many countries it is not slave labor. You are ignorant of Apple business. Foxconn, Wistron, Pegatron are not owned by Apple. They are contracting companies. They also build products for many other companies. Can you elaborate what Apple did to them to enhance margins?
I'm not sure what you are after here. Apple does indeed use slave labor in China, this isn't about standards of living but rather the Chinese government interning people in labor camps for political purposes. The net result if forced labor.
As for my supposed ignorance, I suggest you look in the mirror. Apple has had long term relationships with these companies even after years and years of reported misbehavior. Apple only reason to do business with them is to get their work done in largely unregulated areas of the world. Even if there are "regulations" China is so corrupt that it really doesn't matter if there are labor laws.
You must be a bit out of touch with respect to what Apple does to its suppliers. The history there is pretty public so you don't need to take my word for it. In a nut shell they simply make demands that the contractors have to make to keep the business.
Look at it another way, back in the day when Apple closed down manufacturing in the USA and eventually moved most of it to China, they didn't change the prices on anything one bit. In fact they continued to raise prices. This has lead to the highest margins in the industry. It is pretty hard to believe that you are so out of touch that you don't realize just how high Apples margins are on its products. That was all about Apples move to China to get products manufactured at a far lower costs. Not one penny of that savings was passed on to consumers in lower prices.
By the way Apple isn't the only company guilty here, almost every business that moved to China just increased their profits on stuff sold in the USA. Prices never came down. Basically a good part of America got screwed over by US based companies enjoying the slave labor afforded them by the CCP.
True -- if you believe the spin of the China hating propagandists. But the chief China hating propagandist just got his butt fired.
While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
So, if you coerce (or extort) many, then it is neither coercion nor extortion? Really? Funny though: I don't recall any numbers or percentages in the definitions of either.
The truth is: India gave Apple a choice: Either manufacture here or forget about selling here. That fits the definition of both coercion and extortion. It also fits with India being corrupt. It's a form of protection racket: "It'd be a shame if something happened to all those nice iPhones of yours".
Because you may favor nationalistic policies doesn't change a thing.
And, like most shake downs, it is not going well. There's a reason why Apple and others don't want to get involved in any but the most superficial of industries there. It's called: A corrupt culture.
By the way: So you are really claiming that you are not a China-Hater nor that Modi is not a nationalistic fascist? OK..... I'm not sure what reality you are living in. But I hope its pleasant for you.
India has no leverage over Apple, except via the laws and trade policies within its borders which Apple is under no obligation to operate within. Everything you claim is a fundamental misunderstanding of what extortion, coersion, and corruption actually are.
I didn't claim anything about Modi at all except that I don't like him. I don't hate China, I'm actually part Chinese by blood, though British in every other way. I also don't favour nationalistic policies, you're making things up again.
Seriously fuck off George, your constant lies and misrepresentations are beyond boring. Ignored for good.
We've gone over the definitions of each of those terms -- so I suggest you go back and read those posts.
And, when India made manufacturing in India a precondition for allowing Apple to access the enormous Indian market that extortion is the only reason Apple was manufacturing in India. Sorry. But, that's that's the reality of it.
While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
Absolutely spot on!!! I also don't like Modi, and still couldn't see how someone can "extort" Apple so easily as George is claiming without any proof.
The proof is that they did. Because you were not aware of it doesn't make it any less true.
I find it funny though that, if China had done it the China-Haters would be up in arms throwing their usual temper tantrums. But, since it was India who did it they say: "This isn't extortion. It's normal!"
Well actually Georgie, that is exactly what China does. China - just like India - has high import taxes, which spurned local manufacturing back in the nascent days of China's industrial machine, and is doing so in India, exampled by Apple manufacturing there. But no one complained when China did that, and no one is complaining now. Nor are they calling it extortion. So, as China and India have similar policies on imports, you must think China is extorting foreign companies by having high import taxes too?
I don't doubt you won't actually answer that, just like how you've answered exactly none of the questions posed to you in this thread or elsewhere. Because you know you're wrong and have been outmanoeuvred, but you can't agree because you're so worried your Chinese investments might be affected, or your Chinese boss might discover your shilling has been derailed. Can't have that.
And, when India made manufacturing in India a precondition for allowing Apple to access the enormous Indian market that extortion is the only reason Apple was manufacturing in India. Sorry. But, that's that's the reality of it.
That's complete shit George. The only reason Apple is manufacturing in India is due to import taxes. There's nothing stopping Apple operating there and importing the phones from China, except high import duty. Sorry. But that's the actual reality of it, rather than your lies and warped anti-India view. I notice every time someone asks for a source you never ever provide it. You're just spewing constant lies, it is pretty boring.
While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
Absolutely spot on!!! I also don't like Modi, and still couldn't see how someone can "extort" Apple so easily as George is claiming without any proof.
The proof is that they did. Because you were not aware of it doesn't make it any less true.
I find it funny though that, if China had done it the China-Haters would be up in arms throwing their usual temper tantrums. But, since it was India who did it they say: "This isn't extortion. It's normal!"
Well actually Georgie, that is exactly what China does. China - just like India - has high import taxes, which spurned local manufacturing back in the nascent days of China's industrial machine, and is doing so in India, exampled by Apple manufacturing there. But no one complained when China did that, and no one is complaining now. Nor are they calling it extortion. So, as China and India have similar policies on imports, you must think China is extorting foreign companies by having high import taxes too?
I don't doubt you won't actually answer that, just like how you've answered exactly none of the questions posed to you in this thread or elsewhere. Because you know you're wrong and have been outmanoeuvred, but you can't agree because you're so worried your Chinese investments might be affected, or your Chinese boss might discover your shilling has been derailed. Can't have that.
Well, no, China did not and does not use protective tariffs to block foreign imports (until they reciprocated against those of the U.S. and Australia).
But you say: "But no one complained" --- Geez! All you guys DO is complain! Whine and complain. Just like your leader.
And, when India made manufacturing in India a precondition for allowing Apple to access the enormous Indian market that extortion is the only reason Apple was manufacturing in India. Sorry. But, that's that's the reality of it.
That's complete shit George. The only reason Apple is manufacturing in India is due to import taxes. There's nothing stopping Apple operating there and importing the phones from China, except high import duty. Sorry. But that's the actual reality of it, rather than your lies and warped anti-India view. I notice every time someone asks for a source you never ever provide it. You're just spewing constant lies, it is pretty boring.
Exactly! India used import taxation (and probably some other sneaky methods) to force companies like Apple to manufacture there if they wanted to sell there. So, yeh, you nailed it: What India did was complete shit. It's called extortion.
While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
Absolutely spot on!!! I also don't like Modi, and still couldn't see how someone can "extort" Apple so easily as George is claiming without any proof.
The proof is that they did. Because you were not aware of it doesn't make it any less true.
I find it funny though that, if China had done it the China-Haters would be up in arms throwing their usual temper tantrums. But, since it was India who did it they say: "This isn't extortion. It's normal!"
Well actually Georgie, that is exactly what China does. China - just like India - has high import taxes, which spurned local manufacturing back in the nascent days of China's industrial machine, and is doing so in India, exampled by Apple manufacturing there. But no one complained when China did that, and no one is complaining now. Nor are they calling it extortion. So, as China and India have similar policies on imports, you must think China is extorting foreign companies by having high import taxes too?
I don't doubt you won't actually answer that, just like how you've answered exactly none of the questions posed to you in this thread or elsewhere. Because you know you're wrong and have been outmanoeuvred, but you can't agree because you're so worried your Chinese investments might be affected, or your Chinese boss might discover your shilling has been derailed. Can't have that.
Well, no, China did not and does not use protective tariffs to block foreign imports (until they reciprocated against those of the U.S. and Australia).
But you say: "But no one complained" --- Geez! All you guys DO is complain! Whine and complain. Just like your leader.
Oh yes they do. 130% general duty rate. Now that is extortionate. Plus VAT and Consumption Tax. So more pro-China lies from GeorgeBMac. All you do is lie and attempt (and fail) to pull a facade over people's eyes. Just like your leader.
While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
Absolutely spot on!!! I also don't like Modi, and still couldn't see how someone can "extort" Apple so easily as George is claiming without any proof.
The proof is that they did. Because you were not aware of it doesn't make it any less true.
I find it funny though that, if China had done it the China-Haters would be up in arms throwing their usual temper tantrums. But, since it was India who did it they say: "This isn't extortion. It's normal!"
Well actually Georgie, that is exactly what China does. China - just like India - has high import taxes, which spurned local manufacturing back in the nascent days of China's industrial machine, and is doing so in India, exampled by Apple manufacturing there. But no one complained when China did that, and no one is complaining now. Nor are they calling it extortion. So, as China and India have similar policies on imports, you must think China is extorting foreign companies by having high import taxes too?
I don't doubt you won't actually answer that, just like how you've answered exactly none of the questions posed to you in this thread or elsewhere. Because you know you're wrong and have been outmanoeuvred, but you can't agree because you're so worried your Chinese investments might be affected, or your Chinese boss might discover your shilling has been derailed. Can't have that.
Well, no, China did not and does not use protective tariffs to block foreign imports (until they reciprocated against those of the U.S. and Australia).
But you say: "But no one complained" --- Geez! All you guys DO is complain! Whine and complain. Just like your leader.
Oh yes they do. 130% general duty rate. Now that is extortionate. Plus VAT and Consumption Tax. So more pro-China lies from GeorgeBMac. All you do is lie and attempt (and fail) to pull a facade over people's eyes. Just like your leader.
Good job on researching that link. More people should take the time to look into stuff. Thanks.
While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
Absolutely spot on!!! I also don't like Modi, and still couldn't see how someone can "extort" Apple so easily as George is claiming without any proof.
The proof is that they did. Because you were not aware of it doesn't make it any less true.
I find it funny though that, if China had done it the China-Haters would be up in arms throwing their usual temper tantrums. But, since it was India who did it they say: "This isn't extortion. It's normal!"
Well actually Georgie, that is exactly what China does. China - just like India - has high import taxes, which spurned local manufacturing back in the nascent days of China's industrial machine, and is doing so in India, exampled by Apple manufacturing there. But no one complained when China did that, and no one is complaining now. Nor are they calling it extortion. So, as China and India have similar policies on imports, you must think China is extorting foreign companies by having high import taxes too?
I don't doubt you won't actually answer that, just like how you've answered exactly none of the questions posed to you in this thread or elsewhere. Because you know you're wrong and have been outmanoeuvred, but you can't agree because you're so worried your Chinese investments might be affected, or your Chinese boss might discover your shilling has been derailed. Can't have that.
Well, no, China did not and does not use protective tariffs to block foreign imports (until they reciprocated against those of the U.S. and Australia).
But you say: "But no one complained" --- Geez! All you guys DO is complain! Whine and complain. Just like your leader.
Oh yes they do. 130% general duty rate. Now that is extortionate. Plus VAT and Consumption Tax. So more pro-China lies from GeorgeBMac. All you do is lie and attempt (and fail) to pull a facade over people's eyes. Just like your leader.
While I understand that Wistron is responsible here, Apple does not look good with what appears to be a lack of oversight, especially of a newer operation.
Unless Wistron was cooking numbers that Apple reviewed. But I would think the would have a large team of inspectors to independently and directly verify compliance with their contract standards.
Apple didn't go into India because they wanted to. They went there (with one of their suppliers) due to extortion by the Indian government. They likely knew that their hands were tied and their options limited.
India forced Apple, an American company with no ties to India, to sell their phones there? Huh. That's definitely out of order.
You need to pay better attention to news.
India told them: if you don't manufacture here you don't sell here. Had that been China heads would be exploding. But, it was India.
So yeh, the only reason Apple was there was because of India's extortion.
So Apple had a choice: Sell in India or don't sell in India. India didn't force Apple to sell in India as your first post claimed. India forced Apple to manufacture in India if it wanted to sell there too. Just the same as the US government "extorts" money from foreign companies who want to sell in the US by way of taxes. No different. Apple made the decision that it was worth spending the money on manufacturing in India to attempt to get a foothold there.
Yeh, they did force Apple -- which is otherwise known as extortion.
But then India needed to resort to such low life tactics: Nobody in their right mind would invest in that country without being extorted.
No, no, no and no.
Setting conditions for foreign companies to sell in your markets is not extortion, not by any common understanding of the word. It is a protectionist trade policy for sure, but it is not extortion, nor is it even that uncommon. Apple were not forced to do anything. India is not even a big market for them, so they could easily forego it (or relatively easily compared to the EU markets, which other idiots on this forum suggest Apple withdraw from). The USA has had not dissimilar trade policies in the past, as have just about every country in the world that cares about its domestic economy. Your insistence on labelling this as extortion is both literally wrong, and totally wrongheaded and backward.
Your insistence on trying to make India look bad while defending China at every opportunity is extremely suspect Georgie. I suggest you re-examine your biases.
Extortion: The practice of obtaining benefit through coercion.
India coerced Apple into manufacturing in that corrupt, unstable nation. That makes it extortion.
And coercion is "the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force". That did not happen. Applying taxes in a consistent way to all foreign business is not a specific threat or force upon Apple, it's just an incentive to manufacture locally. Like I said before, this happens all the time across the world, and while you may not like it if you're into free trade it's not illegal or corrupt, or any of the things you're painting it as.
Because you hate China and love the nationalistic fascist running India doesn't make it anything other than extortion. I'll stick to fact based reality. You are free to hate communists and love fascists if you like. But I think that is silly.
For the love of god George this is pathetic. I don't like Modi, and I don't even disagree that India has a lot of problems with corruption, but that doesn't mean that you aren't way off base in calling this particular trade policy corrupt or extortion. You are wrong. And now you're using personal slander and straw men in place of your point. You are just as bad as the people you think you're fighting against.
Absolutely spot on!!! I also don't like Modi, and still couldn't see how someone can "extort" Apple so easily as George is claiming without any proof.
The proof is that they did. Because you were not aware of it doesn't make it any less true.
I find it funny though that, if China had done it the China-Haters would be up in arms throwing their usual temper tantrums. But, since it was India who did it they say: "This isn't extortion. It's normal!"
Well actually Georgie, that is exactly what China does. China - just like India - has high import taxes, which spurned local manufacturing back in the nascent days of China's industrial machine, and is doing so in India, exampled by Apple manufacturing there. But no one complained when China did that, and no one is complaining now. Nor are they calling it extortion. So, as China and India have similar policies on imports, you must think China is extorting foreign companies by having high import taxes too?
I don't doubt you won't actually answer that, just like how you've answered exactly none of the questions posed to you in this thread or elsewhere. Because you know you're wrong and have been outmanoeuvred, but you can't agree because you're so worried your Chinese investments might be affected, or your Chinese boss might discover your shilling has been derailed. Can't have that.
Well, no, China did not and does not use protective tariffs to block foreign imports (until they reciprocated against those of the U.S. and Australia).
But you say: "But no one complained" --- Geez! All you guys DO is complain! Whine and complain. Just like your leader.
Oh yes they do. 130% general duty rate. Now that is extortionate. Plus VAT and Consumption Tax. So more pro-China lies from GeorgeBMac. All you do is lie and attempt (and fail) to pull a facade over people's eyes. Just like your leader.
OH Geez!!!
For once I'll believe Trump -- not even he in his China Hate and smear campaign claimed such nonsense.
If China had been charging such protective tariffs they would not be our third largest trading partner nor would we be exporting well over $100Billion to them each year. Instead, they adhere to WTO standards.
But, keep up with your fake statistics: It's cute how you start with your answer ("I hate China therefor they must be doing something wrong") and then search the internet for "facts" to support your hate.
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No, I am a proud, patriotic American. You though I am not so sure of.
I didn't claim anything about Modi at all except that I don't like him. I don't hate China, I'm actually part Chinese by blood, though British in every other way. I also don't favour nationalistic policies, you're making things up again.
Seriously fuck off George, your constant lies and misrepresentations are beyond boring. Ignored for good.
That's from the relatively China-friendly trading partner Australia.
And from Amnesty International, the same independent agency that has reported on what they believe are US human rights violations under our soon-to-be-former President.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/09/china-up-to-one-million-detained/
You can't deny the existence of evidence George, even if you can make believe it was all invented and it's all 'dem damn raht-wangers making it up.
I don't doubt you won't actually answer that, just like how you've answered exactly none of the questions posed to you in this thread or elsewhere. Because you know you're wrong and have been outmanoeuvred, but you can't agree because you're so worried your Chinese investments might be affected, or your Chinese boss might discover your shilling has been derailed. Can't have that.
That's complete shit George. The only reason Apple is manufacturing in India is due to import taxes. There's nothing stopping Apple operating there and importing the phones from China, except high import duty. Sorry. But that's the actual reality of it, rather than your lies and warped anti-India view. I notice every time someone asks for a source you never ever provide it. You're just spewing constant lies, it is pretty boring.
Exactly! India used import taxation (and probably some other sneaky methods) to force companies like Apple to manufacture there if they wanted to sell there. So, yeh, you nailed it: What India did was complete shit. It's called extortion.
OH Geez!!!