About the only pushback I have is that the non-leather ear pads may be very popular with folks who have experienced sauna-ears from wearing leather (real or faux) for extended periods of time, like on an 8 hour or longer flight. Let's see what feedback comes in from longer term users.
On the one hand, if you compare individual features and attributes of the AirPods Max with competitive offerings from other makers, it's obvious that Apple has done their homework and delivered a highly competitive product that's marginally better in a few areas. On the other hand, features like Spatial Audio probably tell us that Apple has a few tricks up its sleeve with the AirPods Max that it has not fully exploited - yet. I'd imagine that Spatial Audio may be prove to be a differentiated capability for future applications like gaming and augmented reality. Since these things are very much an active audio computing device when paired with Apple computers in other form factors, there are potentially some future upgrades and fine tuning that may come via firmware updates and through cooperative processing with other Apple devices, some of which have yet to be revealed.
I think it's safe to say that the lingerie case isn't getting any love from anyone at all. The non folding design of the AirPods Max definitely limited what Apple could do from a space saving case perspective. Anything that fully protects the full extent of the AirPods Max would probably be the size of a hat box, cake box, of kiddie backpack. Who really wants to carry around a behemoth case? I'm sure that third party case makers will rise to the occasion and delivery many alternatives, and they will all be jumbo sized.
I'm still taking a wait & see on these. At the very least I will have to do some A/B testing with music tracks that I have an affinity for. Whenever I buy headphones I always test drive them in the store with my music selection. Since Apple has a return policy I could do this at home. One thing for certain, I would not buy these solely for the ANC capabilities. I already have decent ANC headphones, Bose QC20i and QC15, and I am not traveling enough to require ANC and rarely use ANC otherwise. I don't know why ANC is as hyped as it is outside of a narrow set of use cases that benefit from it. But if I didn't already have ANC headphones and wanted one set of headphones that does everything except walk the dog, and with the possibility of compelling Spatial Audio applications and tighter Apple product integration on the horizon, these would be high on my list.
Despite all the grumblings about price, I think Apple will sell a lot of these to a certain set of customers. One customer group in particular is those who fly business class (or higher) long haul flights. When you (or most likely your company) is paying $5K - $10K for each round-trip flight halfway around the world, a $600 one-time purchase to help you arrive with most of your sanity still intact is a pretty good investment.
Exactly. I think the Spatial Audio on the AirPods Pro / AirPods Max is a testbed (or precursor) to an Apple branded VR / MR headset.
More indication that Jonny I’ve isn’t at the helm anymore.
Word on the street is that the APM were 4 years in the making. So there's a strong chance that Jony Ive still had a lot of influence into the design of this product.
Worlds most valuable company. Unlimited resources. Best staff in the world. And 4 years. 4 years.
Yes 4 years.
4 years.... think about it...
To make a pair of not especially exciting headphones.
I’m sure they are decent enough. No doubt. But 4 years for that.... yikes. No.
Nah, not anywhere near good enough. These should be phenomenal with that amount of investment. Even if they cost 4x as much. At least it would be something interesting
Best non-biased review I’ve read here in a long time. For a couple hundred more you could get a pair of B&W P9. I think Apple has lost their way here. While the integration into the Apple ecosystem is great, the price is simply a money grab and an insult to the Apple faithful.
$999 B&W P9 have really poor build quality I’m told. I think P7 might be a better buy - can’t seem to find anyone selling either now though.
What other Wireless ANC Headphones can you get for $600 that are better sounding? That is the question. I don’t think there is a truly comparable alternative.
Another good question is what better sounding wireless (non-ANC) headphones can you get for similar money?
By better sounding, I mean more neutral, not cheap trashy fake bass sony and beats.
Swing and a miss. The P9’s have excellent quality. They are my reference headphones and I use them when not using my P7 Black Carbons. Personally I don’t care what people buy. It’s their money but for me, I choose wisely.
I don't have mine yet (presumably Christmas morning!)
Curiously, the review description of the sound quality (being neutral, clean, clear, with no emphasis on high or low end, and great soundstage) is EXACTLY what an audiophile would want. This sounds like one is describing a quality of faithful and uncolored reproduction. This is how I would describe my Sennheiser HD800's.
Yet the opening sentence says "underwhelmed"
I guess I'll see in a few days...
I was thinking the same. I would describe myself as an audiophile (own the HD800S, Audeze LCD-4, Hifiman Susvara, JH Audio Layla custom IEM, Chord DACs, etc.) and those terms are exactly what I'd want in this headphone but I guess it's only a certain percentage of those descriptions or something. For business travel, I have the Sony XM3 which is great for trans-Pacific flights and commuting in subways or taxis in Asia so I'm interested in replacing it with the APM and I read all these mixed or confusing reviews about the sound quality.
Some say it's "fantastic" and other superlatives and some say it's "meh" for the price, etc. or not any better than the Sony XM4 or the Bose 700. When they say "fantastic" or "great", what are they comparing it to? It's really hard to know what their own benchmarks or standards are. I certainly do not expect the APM to sound as good as "dumb" wired headphones like Sennheiser, AKG or Grado headphones in the $500~600 range. Comparing to those types of headphones doesn't make any sense and is not at all helpful.
As I have the XM3 which I had been happy with for business travel, I'm only interested in how it compares to the newer XM4 and the Bose 700 and if I should spend a few extra hundred on it. I'll figure in the materials, build quality, the Apple "ecosystem" features and that "Apple tax" (i.e. their healthy margin for R&D and marketing, etc.) so a certain portion of the higher cost over these other established wireless ANC headphones has to be in superior sound quality.
I've read terms like "wider soundstage" and that's a good start but how do the specific frequency ranges compare between these headphones? I must have read or watched almost a dozen reviews now and no one can seem to articulate these audio-specific terms clearly. Whatever they describe just sound like personal subjective opinions and we all know how people hear things differently. If these reviewers have only used $50~300 headphones, their expectations of a $550 headphone are probably unrealistic in terms of sound quality.
I purchased the Audeze LCD-4 and in no way did I expect it to sound more than twice as good as the Sennheiser HD800S but, even if that overall perceived "improvement" is only 10% (which is actually impossible to quantify), the difference could be huge to the beholder and believe that it's worth every penny. I'm at the point of not even bothering with these reviews anymore because I just don't know what their reference points are.
Well, since you own the HD800S (which is modern classic), I'm sure you know what I'm getting at and I'm looking forward to your thoughts. The APM is not an audiophile headphone by proper definition of the term and it's also silly to see people (and even Apple) describing it as such. The way I see it, "audiophile" headphones start at around $1K and they are all wired not Bluetooth. Anyway, looking forward to your thoughts!
dewme said: I don't know why ANC is as hyped as it is outside of a narrow set of use cases that benefit from it.
ANC is great for apartment dwellers. That's not a narrow use case. All kinds of noise situations with that where you're grateful for that feature.
Yes, although I would primarily use it for business travel on long flights, waiting around at the airport, taking subways and taxis, etc. I find that I always bring out my Sony XM3 for the hot tub sessions.
Best non-biased review I’ve read here in a long time. For a couple hundred more you could get a pair of B&W P9. I think Apple has lost their way here. While the integration into the Apple ecosystem is great, the price is simply a money grab and an insult to the Apple faithful.
You have some P9s?? Great! Maybe you can answer a few questions. What is their Bluetooth range? What about spatial awareness? Hows that work? Is the ANC as good as Apple's or Sony's? How 'bout their transparency mode? How much does it cost to have the earcups replaced and what's the turnaround time?
I don't have mine yet (presumably Christmas morning!)
Curiously, the review description of the sound quality (being neutral, clean, clear, with no emphasis on high or low end, and great soundstage) is EXACTLY what an audiophile would want. This sounds like one is describing a quality of faithful and uncolored reproduction. This is how I would describe my Sennheiser HD800's.
Yet the opening sentence says "underwhelmed"
I guess I'll see in a few days...
As much as I'm intrigued by the Max, I think a trained ear would likely prefer the Senn 800s for pure sonic considerations. I, like every detractor here, haven't hear the Max, or the 800s for that matter, though I've had the 600s for a long time.
I think the Max were designed to be better than most users have heard while providing several features that may enhance the user/listening experience. These are not to compete with reference 'phones by any stretch. If crybabies whine about Apple selling these for $550, they'd wail at seeing how much good audiophile headphones can cost. Life is short. Buy what you like and stop worrying about the rest.
dewme said: I don't know why ANC is as hyped as it is outside of a narrow set of use cases that benefit from it.
ANC is great for apartment dwellers. That's not a narrow use case. All kinds of noise situations with that where you're grateful for that feature.
Yes, although I would primarily use it for business travel on long flights, waiting around at the airport, taking subways and taxis, etc. I find that I always bring out my Sony XM3 for the hot tub sessions.
One of the big uses of ANC has traditionally been on flights, so the lack of an adapter that lets you plug the phones into the headphone jack in the seat is puzzling to say the least. (Then again, Apple argued that the 3.5 mm jack that every airline in the country uses was obsolete, so maybe that's the reason.)
This is a nice, balanced review. Like most people here, I haven't actually listened to the AirPods Max headphones. I have read several reviews. No one says the sound is bad, a couple people say it's 'audiophile quality,' while the majority say it's very good, generally on par to slightly better than most $300 headphones. Everyone has somewhat different tastes but everything I've read indicates that a true audiophile or professional will want something besides these. But arguing that these are a bargain audiophile headset is missing the point - that's not really Apple's target here.
Their target is the 'premium home user.' (i.e. a consumer who wants a high end headset that they maybe want to pretend is 'professional' quality.) Then the equation becomes much more difficult. If you just want a good pair of ANC BT headphones, the Bose or Sonys would probably do you well for significantly less money. "But APM's have a bunch of extra features that make them a bargain!" Well, maybe. The H1 chip is nice, but I never need 100feet of range on BT. They do transfer easily between Apple devices. If you're using other devices this advantage drops away. The spacial audio is neat but would you use it and or miss it if you didn't have it? Dunno. I wouldn't, maybe others would. After reading a lot of reviews and comments, the bottom line I come away with is these are good headphones that are overpriced for some and worth it for others. Your perspective depends on whether you think the extra features are worth paying double/$300 more.
While I take no significant issue with Andrew's well-balanced and well-written opinion on the AirPods Max, I do think he under-emphasized some points that Apple was specifically aiming for and which are in fact rare among headphones in the $300-$1K+ range:
1. As neutral as possible (I'm glad he mentioned it though)
2. Bluetooth with extraordinary range (a huge plus for selling to non-audiophiles who will also get all the other benefits, and they work fine wired so the audiophile crowd can just shut up about their BT elitism)
3. Spatial audio. This. is. HUGE. As much as Andrew correctly raved about it, he (IMO) grossly underestimated what a selling point this is. Saying there's not a lot of spatial-audio content yet available is a lot like saying nobody should buy a 4K TV because cable channels don't offer anything in actual 4K. This area will grow and grow rapidly because of the AirPods Pro as well as the AirPods Max, and Same-sung has already announced they are copying the feature. Most content on Disney+ (90M subscribers), Apple TV (dozens of millions of subscribers) and HBO Max (probably the hottest new service around, though I don't know how many millions of subscribers) is again a huge boon for Airpods Pro and Max buyers. You can rest assured that Prime and Netflix will be along in due course.
4. Related to the point above, the simulated surround and Dolby Atmos effect is again a strong selling point I think Andrew may be underestimating. To put this another way: I'm not at all surprised it is backordered till at least March already.
5. While every single review I've seen talks about the weight of the headphones, they also say that they're really, really comfortable for prolonged listening (assuming you're not a jogger, but you would have to be mad to run around town with these on your head). That is (pardon the pun) music to my ears every bit as much as the "neutral" profile.
And finally:
6. These are not aimed at the general headphone market, because that is dominated by people who are actively trying to deafen themselves. It is, IMO, aimed at people who think nothing of paying $500 and up for great sound but would like the many, many technology features that AirPods Pro (et al) offer and which their $500-$1K and beyond headphones do not. I think a lot of potential buyers are looking at these at work headphones (for editing audio with a cord in) and casual (with the BT on).
The AirPods Max are aimed squarely at AirPods Pro users who love those features and want that in a more serious headphone, and at HomePod (full) owners, especially those who love movies. At the present time, there is nothing under $550 that offers the combination of neutral great sound AND high-tech features. Heck, there's nothing at all out there that does both those things equally well (which might be short of absolutely perfect in both arenas but gets within spitting distance) at any price at the moment.
Best non-biased review I’ve read here in a long time. For a couple hundred more you could get a pair of B&W P9. I think Apple has lost their way here. While the integration into the Apple ecosystem is great, the price is simply a money grab and an insult to the Apple faithful.
You have some P9s?? Great! Maybe you can answer a few questions. What is their Bluetooth range? What about spatial awareness? Hows that work? Is the ANC as good as Apple's or Sony's? How 'bout their transparency mode? How much does it cost to have the earcups replaced and what's the turnaround time?
Snooze alert. If you knew what you were talking about and it is quite clear you don’t and a pair of $20 is more your listening speed (for discerning listening) . If the P9’s are good enough for studio work then that speaks volumes. I’d gladly match my P9’s against your BT enabled Apple headphones in terms of pure sound quality. I’ll take sound quality over a host of features I may or may not use. To each his or her own.
I don't know why ANC is as hyped as it is outside of a narrow set of use cases that benefit from it.
You know, if you look around you you'll find that people have been using portable music players to block out the world since pretty much the Walkman (1979).
We just didn't know that we wanted ANC because it hasn't been available to most of us in a format that made sense; or we never got around to trying it, because it wasn't part of the products we felt were for us.
ANC is simply nothing more than earphones using computational magic to compensate for not being a complete soundproof studio environment; and then at the other end there's transparency modes, which goes the other way and compensates for the earphones physically being in the way for sound to naturally reach you.
Honestly, ANC, transparency mode and automatic equalisers simply completes a product we didn't even realise wasn't complete; and it isn't really until now that it's become possible to cram the needed computing power (and batteries) into such tiny products.
I was really hoping for something special for these headphones and I was even willing to pay the Apple Tax for a good design.
The headphones themselves seem very good, but the stupid case that offers next to no protection mixed in with the price is just a no from me.
Still, it's ok because I've now got a lovely pair of B&W PX7's that cost half the price and sound just as good, if not, based on reviews, a bit better.
I was really hoping for something special for these headphones and I was even willing to pay the Apple Tax for a good design.
The headphones themselves seem very good, but the stupid case that offers next to no protection mixed in with the price is just a no from me.
Still, it's ok because I've now got a lovely pair of B&W PX7's that cost half the price and sound just as good, if not, based on reviews, a bit better.
Did you get the Black Carbon version? The look amazing.
I was really hoping for something special for these headphones and I was even willing to pay the Apple Tax for a good design.
The headphones themselves seem very good, but the stupid case that offers next to no protection mixed in with the price is just a no from me.
Still, it's ok because I've now got a lovely pair of B&W PX7's that cost half the price and sound just as good, if not, based on reviews, a bit better.
Did you get the Black Carbon version? The look amazing.
I did, and they look and feel great. Very good upgrade over my old wired B&W P5’s.
I think that Apple was put in a tough situation by releasing this product during a pandemic that has financially affected millions of people negatively.
If you compare the price of these headphones to Beats, they aren’t that much more, but they are way better. It’s the fact that money is tighter for a lot more people that make this product less attractive.
The good news is this will help expand Apple’s over the ear product line and I predict you should be seeing a cheaper version within a year or two with less features, but still great sound quality.
The problem with the AirPods max is that they are trying to bridge multiple spaces at the same time. Audiophiles, tech heads, and the average consumers. These are very different spaces, Audiophiles want great audio above all, everything else either helps or hinders that goal, $550 isn't that big of a deal considering there are headphones costing up to 4k. And from what I seen in reviews, these aren't competitive with audiophile headphones in the $500-800 range Tech heads want things that are filled with technology and here the headphones shines but is the value inline with the cost? Some reviewers think they are, some do not, and some believe it's up to the buyer to determine that. And now in the "average consumer" space, price is king, Not saying that the average consumer won't spend big $$$ but they do it only if they feel the entire package is worth it in value to them. Even taking into account of the Apple tax, most consumers will compare these with the nearest competitors which are the Bose and Sony's. And while max may sound better is that better worth the additional $150? This is the question that a lot of consumers are going to need to answer especially with the way things are right now.
Comments
I’m sure they are decent enough. No doubt. But 4 years for that.... yikes. No.
Nah, not anywhere near good enough. These should be phenomenal with that amount of investment. Even if they cost 4x as much. At least it would be something interesting
Some say it's "fantastic" and other superlatives and some say it's "meh" for the price, etc. or not any better than the Sony XM4 or the Bose 700. When they say "fantastic" or "great", what are they comparing it to? It's really hard to know what their own benchmarks or standards are. I certainly do not expect the APM to sound as good as "dumb" wired headphones like Sennheiser, AKG or Grado headphones in the $500~600 range. Comparing to those types of headphones doesn't make any sense and is not at all helpful.
As I have the XM3 which I had been happy with for business travel, I'm only interested in how it compares to the newer XM4 and the Bose 700 and if I should spend a few extra hundred on it. I'll figure in the materials, build quality, the Apple "ecosystem" features and that "Apple tax" (i.e. their healthy margin for R&D and marketing, etc.) so a certain portion of the higher cost over these other established wireless ANC headphones has to be in superior sound quality.
I've read terms like "wider soundstage" and that's a good start but how do the specific frequency ranges compare between these headphones? I must have read or watched almost a dozen reviews now and no one can seem to articulate these audio-specific terms clearly. Whatever they describe just sound like personal subjective opinions and we all know how people hear things differently. If these reviewers have only used $50~300 headphones, their expectations of a $550 headphone are probably unrealistic in terms of sound quality.
I purchased the Audeze LCD-4 and in no way did I expect it to sound more than twice as good as the Sennheiser HD800S but, even if that overall perceived "improvement" is only 10% (which is actually impossible to quantify), the difference could be huge to the beholder and believe that it's worth every penny. I'm at the point of not even bothering with these reviews anymore because I just don't know what their reference points are.
Well, since you own the HD800S (which is modern classic), I'm sure you know what I'm getting at and I'm looking forward to your thoughts. The APM is not an audiophile headphone by proper definition of the term and it's also silly to see people (and even Apple) describing it as such. The way I see it, "audiophile" headphones start at around $1K and they are all wired not Bluetooth. Anyway, looking forward to your thoughts!
As much as I'm intrigued by the Max, I think a trained ear would likely prefer the Senn 800s for pure sonic considerations. I, like every detractor here, haven't hear the Max, or the 800s for that matter, though I've had the 600s for a long time.
I think the Max were designed to be better than most users have heard while providing several features that may enhance the user/listening experience. These are not to compete with reference 'phones by any stretch. If crybabies whine about Apple selling these for $550, they'd wail at seeing how much good audiophile headphones can cost. Life is short. Buy what you like and stop worrying about the rest.
This is a nice, balanced review. Like most people here, I haven't actually listened to the AirPods Max headphones. I have read several reviews. No one says the sound is bad, a couple people say it's 'audiophile quality,' while the majority say it's very good, generally on par to slightly better than most $300 headphones. Everyone has somewhat different tastes but everything I've read indicates that a true audiophile or professional will want something besides these. But arguing that these are a bargain audiophile headset is missing the point - that's not really Apple's target here.
Their target is the 'premium home user.' (i.e. a consumer who wants a high end headset that they maybe want to pretend is 'professional' quality.) Then the equation becomes much more difficult. If you just want a good pair of ANC BT headphones, the Bose or Sonys would probably do you well for significantly less money. "But APM's have a bunch of extra features that make them a bargain!" Well, maybe. The H1 chip is nice, but I never need 100feet of range on BT. They do transfer easily between Apple devices. If you're using other devices this advantage drops away. The spacial audio is neat but would you use it and or miss it if you didn't have it? Dunno. I wouldn't, maybe others would. After reading a lot of reviews and comments, the bottom line I come away with is these are good headphones that are overpriced for some and worth it for others. Your perspective depends on whether you think the extra features are worth paying double/$300 more.
We just didn't know that we wanted ANC because it hasn't been available to most of us in a format that made sense; or we never got around to trying it, because it wasn't part of the products we felt were for us.
ANC is simply nothing more than earphones using computational magic to compensate for not being a complete soundproof studio environment; and then at the other end there's transparency modes, which goes the other way and compensates for the earphones physically being in the way for sound to naturally reach you.
Honestly, ANC, transparency mode and automatic equalisers simply completes a product we didn't even realise wasn't complete; and it isn't really until now that it's become possible to cram the needed computing power (and batteries) into such tiny products.
If you compare the price of these headphones to Beats, they aren’t that much more, but they are way better. It’s the fact that money is tighter for a lot more people that make this product less attractive.