Hyundai in talks with Apple to produce 'Apple Car'

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 65
    Tesla's stock value is about a third of Apple's, even though Apple makes (nearly) ten times as much profit as Tesla. Using those profit numbers, that suggests that Tesla is roughly three time overvalued.

    Tesla can't pay cash for any other car company, since most car companies are worth $60 billion. Tesla would have to pay with a stock swap. However I believe no car manufacturer's CEO would accept Tesla's stock since it's overvalued.
    First off, if Tesla is really making 10% of the profit of Apple, that's very, very impressive (and shows that this market is certainly worth Apple's interest).  Also, it's that's true it makes sense that Telsa's market value is so high--as much as I hate to say it.  A few years ago Tesla wasn't profitable at all.  So to go from that to making tens of billions of dollars are year in profits in a few years puts them on a remarkable growth path.  Stock prices aren't based on today's profits, they are based on (primarily) expectations of future profits.  So if they can draw a line showing that their profits will be a third of Apple's or even higher in a few years, then having a market value that high makes sense.

    Look at it this way, Amazon's stock price was sky high during the years when they were losing money every quarter, and now they completely own ecommerce.  In retrospect, it's hard to argue for those rose-colored-glasses-wearing early Amazon investors (of which I was not one, nor am I a Tesla investor).
    qwerty52caladanian
  • Reply 42 of 65
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    AI_lias said:
    borps said:
    Why do they aim so low?
    If they want to build the best cars they'll have to go with German or Japanese engineering. Not Hyundai, yet another Korean me-too manufacturer...

    Germans don’t make very reliable cars. 

    Germany makes the highest quality cars. You’re misinformed or have an interest in spreading misinformation.
    qwerty52caladanian
  • Reply 43 of 65
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    seanie248 said:
    Looks like Hyundai just put themselves out of the game with that leak.....

    believe it or not, Hyundai make very good cars these days. Brother is a mechanic and he cant fault them.
    Compare that to the volume of Audi, VW, BMW, Opel that come in , and then you realise what manufacturers are pumping out crap.
    You would be surprised at how many "Big" names are using bought-in engines developed by the "lesser" brands.
    Pay a premium for your German car and find out the engine is actually from a French maker....  :#

    And some people think the iPhone is a walled Garden. Imagine paying €70,000 for a car and when the power steering needs to be changed, the car won't start unless Main Dealer re-program the car to recognise the new part !!!! 
    Or one car that would go into Limp Home mode randomly, but be fine the following day... turns out a home-burned audio CD was driving the ICE ECU mad at one track and that made the main ECU shutdown the car to emergency mode.
    Current car manufacturers know squat about developing software systems for cars that are secure and usable, and with smart, connected cars here now, they all need someone with experience in this area. Toyota/Lexus are the leaders in Hybrid/Battery tech , simply because they have been doing it for about 20 years.

    Think of CarPlay as the Motorola phone that had iTunes.....

    Hyundai has walked back on their statement

    After $8 billion surge in market value, Hyundai walks back statement it’s in talks over Apple Car (macdailynews.com)
    They should be investigated for stock manipulation and delisted on the US stock exchange.
    razorpit
  • Reply 44 of 65
    Good lord.  🙄
  • Reply 45 of 65
    Good lord.  Over react much?
  • Reply 46 of 65
    mknelsonmknelson Posts: 864member
    Kuyangkoh said:
    DAalseth said:
    I sure wish it had been Toyota.
    Agreed. I have a 15 year old Prius that's been rock solid. 
    Maybe Toyota will collaborate w Tesla....
    Technically, they already did for a compliance EV or two in California.

    Toyota themselves has been rather slow to the EV market. The've been more focused on Hydrogen technology.

    Hyundai and cousin Kia (using some of the same parts) have had several very nicely reviewed EVs for several years. Kona, Niro, Soul, now Ioniq, etc.
    elijahg
  • Reply 47 of 65
    Should Kia start learning how to work with LiquidMetal?
    razorpitcaladanian
  • Reply 48 of 65
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,959member
    mknelson said:
    Kuyangkoh said:
    DAalseth said:
    I sure wish it had been Toyota.
    Agreed. I have a 15 year old Prius that's been rock solid. 
    Maybe Toyota will collaborate w Tesla....
    Technically, they already did for a compliance EV or two in California.

    Toyota themselves has been rather slow to the EV market. The've been more focused on Hydrogen technology.

    Hyundai and cousin Kia (using some of the same parts) have had several very nicely reviewed EVs for several years. Kona, Niro, Soul, now Ioniq, etc.
    Yes, my sister-in-law has a first gen Ioniq EV and is very happy with it. My only complaint is that it isn't designed with roof racks or trailers in mind (assuming the owner was willing to take the associated hit on range). I think I read somewhere though that later generations have the necessary reinforcements in place for roof racks. 
  • Reply 49 of 65
    Tesla's stock value is about a third of Apple's, even though Apple makes (nearly) ten times as much profit as Tesla. Using those profit numbers, that suggests that Tesla is roughly three time overvalued.

    Tesla can't pay cash for any other car company, since most car companies are worth $60 billion. Tesla would have to pay with a stock swap. However I believe no car manufacturer's CEO would accept Tesla's stock since it's overvalued.
    First off, if Tesla is really making 10% of the profit of Apple, that's very, very impressive (and shows that this market is certainly worth Apple's interest).  Also, it's that's true it makes sense that Telsa's market value is so high--as much as I hate to say it.  A few years ago Tesla wasn't profitable at all.  So to go from that to making tens of billions of dollars are year in profits in a few years puts them on a remarkable growth path.  Stock prices aren't based on today's profits, they are based on (primarily) expectations of future profits.  So if they can draw a line showing that their profits will be a third of Apple's or even higher in a few years, then having a market value that high makes sense.

    Look at it this way, Amazon's stock price was sky high during the years when they were losing money every quarter, and now they completely own ecommerce.  In retrospect, it's hard to argue for those rose-colored-glasses-wearing early Amazon investors (of which I was not one, nor am I a Tesla investor).
    Just so you know, you're arguing against my man's hyperbole.  By very creatively rounding up, I was able to credit Tesla with $6.5B in profit.  I removed almost $5B from Apples profit so they'd be left with $100B.  Tesla and Apple use the same fiscal calendar so comparing them is easy.  Even doing drunk accountant, cock-eyed math I can't finagle a 10x difference in their profits.  

    I personally doubt they'll ever come close to a 3rd of Apple's profits.  Too much competition has entered the market.  Telsa' is no longer the top selling EV manufacturer in Europe.  They aren't even in the top 10 anymore.  Last column.
    92FED03B-13CF-4A74-83F4-BAD59D871634png
    edited January 8 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 50 of 65
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,031member
    This would likely be a Hyundai (or another major car brand) with Apple tech in it.  Not an "Apple Car."    

    The odds of Apple engineering an entire car, manufacturing a car, or even selling a car under the Apple brand are about the same as the microphone jack making a comeback. 
  • Reply 51 of 65
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,031member

    temperor said:
    I'm not convinced that any german or Japanese car manufacture is worth Apple's time, they are producing far inferior electric cars in regards to efficiency compared to Tesla. Hyundai however even beats Tesla on efficiency, so they have the Tech and quality is really great, their designs where butt ugly but that has been changing quickly and here is where Apple could come into play anyway.
    People keeps spewing this nonsense, and it's both misleading and irrelevant.  There's always some car in its category that is the fastest, or most efficient, or is roomier than the others. People don't always buy the single product that is the absolute best at just one thing. If Volkswagen, Toyota, Honda, and the rest were to build a Model 3 competitors that have even 80% of Tesla's range for around the same price, Tesla's EV market share would plummet. 

    Moreover, the fact that Tesla is the most efficient today (they're not, but let's agree to disagree), doesn't mean that it will be the most efficient next year or the year after. 

    And you must be high if you think that Tesla is quality.  Jesus. 

    https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/tesla-recalls-model-x-because-of-roof-panels/

    https://www.thedrive.com/news/38579/these-repair-bulletins-for-teslas-quality-problems-are-downright-embarrassing-and-serious

    https://www.thedrive.com/tech/36274/tesla-model-y-owners-find-cooling-system-cobbled-together-with-home-depot-grade-fake-wood

    https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/2021-tesla-model-3-lr-issues-defects-to-lookout-for.215449/

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-semi-abandoned-auto-analysts/
    edited January 8
  • Reply 52 of 65
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 993member
    borps said:
    Why do they aim so low?
    If they want to build the best cars they'll have to go with German or Japanese engineering. Not Hyundai, yet another Korean me-too manufacturer...
    It depends on whether Apple wants to build a car for the masses or not. 
  • Reply 53 of 65
    I have several friends who own Hyundai vehicles. They are well made, reliable, and seem to have figured out how to lower the cost in the process. It seems like a good fit for Apple to partner up.
    elijahg
  • Reply 54 of 65
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,506member
    borps said:
    Why do they aim so low?
    If they want to build the best cars they'll have to go with German or Japanese engineering. Not Hyundai, yet another Korean me-too manufacturer...
    I've got a 1998 Hyundai, and it's been absolutely first class. Literally never broken down in the 12 years I've had it. I have friends with Toyotas, and they've had all sorts of problems. Rust, electrical issues, mechanical issues. I also have friends with Audis, and they've also constantly got problems, and the parts to repair it are 3x the price of any other manufacturer. German engineering has a misplaced reputation for being excellent, when it really isn't. You won't find many German cars high up in reliability lists, but they're full of Hyundais and Toyotas.

    The first Audi is in 47th place, and they only show twice in the top 100. First Mercedes is at 21st, and they show up 3 times. Volkswagen's first is 20th. Toyota's in top place, with Hyundai's first entry at 4th place.
  • Reply 55 of 65
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,506member
    AI_lias said:
    borps said:
    Why do they aim so low?
    If they want to build the best cars they'll have to go with German or Japanese engineering. Not Hyundai, yet another Korean me-too manufacturer...

    Germans don’t make very reliable cars. 

    Germany makes the highest quality cars. You’re misinformed or have an interest in spreading misinformation.
    That's a long held misnomer. See my above post. I have repaired German cars and there's a lot of things that really aren't good quality. One example is on the Audi A4 cabriolet, they use the cheapest crappiest Chinese motor they could find for the hydraulic pump for the roof, coupled with an expensive custom engineered control valve block. After a few years the poor quality brushes stick and jam in the brush housing and the motor fails to run until you hit it. Audi will only sell you the entire unit, which is about £900, and it fails again in a few years as it has the same cheap £15 Chinese motor. Definitely not the highest quality by far.
    edited January 8 canukstorm
  • Reply 56 of 65
    Germany makes the highest quality cars. 
    Now that is blatant spreading of misinformation !! 

    Might have been true some years ago, but hasn't been for a good few years now
    elijahgcanukstorm
  • Reply 57 of 65
    elijahg said:
    AI_lias said:
    borps said:
    Why do they aim so low?
    If they want to build the best cars they'll have to go with German or Japanese engineering. Not Hyundai, yet another Korean me-too manufacturer...

    Germans don’t make very reliable cars. 

    Germany makes the highest quality cars. You’re misinformed or have an interest in spreading misinformation.
    That's a long held misnomer. See my above post. I have repaired German cars and there's a lot of things that really aren't good quality. One example is on the Audi A4 cabriolet, they use the cheapest crappiest Chinese motor they could find for the hydraulic pump for the roof, coupled with an expensive custom engineered control valve block. After a few years the poor quality brushes stick and jam in the brush housing and the motor fails to run until you hit it. Audi will only sell you the entire unit, which is about £900, and it fails again in a few years as it has the same cheap £15 Chinese motor. Definitely not the highest quality by far.
    I agree that German engineering is no guarantee of quality, and they can be expensive to repair. I've had power window switch issues on both a 2000 VW Beetle and 2006 Audi A4. I replaced the door switch assembly myself in the A4 with a Chinese part, which worked well while I had the car. The center console latch broke on the A4 too, but I found a place that had a 3D printed replacement part so I didn't have to replace the entire lid from Audi (Audi did not offer the latch only). Also, the soft touch coating on the door plastic of the Beetle gave way within a few years, so I had to strip it off (with rubbing alcohol and fine steel wool). However, mechanically, I was satisfied with those cars. I now have a 2016 A3 e-tron that seems quite solid so far.

    Of course, any car can have problems. I had a 2008 Prius that had the MFD go out after about 5 years. Toyota wanted $5K to replace with a new one (half the value of the car at the time!) and almost $2K for a "reconditioned" one. Fortunately, I found a reference through Priuschat of someone that repairs the MFD for a flat rate of $300, no matter the problem (which I understand is often just some cheap SMD). I just had to remove it and ship, but thanks to the "snap together" construction of modern cars and a Youtube video, I was able to remove it quickly--and still drive the car without it (thankfully the radio and AC controls are duplicated in the steering wheel).
    elijahg
  • Reply 58 of 65
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    Should Kia start learning how to work with LiquidMetal?
    Someone needs too, please!
    caladanian
  • Reply 59 of 65
    1348513485 Posts: 194member
    AI_lias said:
    borps said:
    Why do they aim so low?
    If they want to build the best cars they'll have to go with German or Japanese engineering. Not Hyundai, yet another Korean me-too manufacturer...

    Germans don’t make very reliable cars. 

    Germany makes the highest quality cars. You’re misinformed or have an interest in spreading misinformation.
    Having owned a bunch of them, I can say they’re highly designed...but abysmally built, and it’s been that way for decades. Love driving them, not so much when you or someone else has to wrench on them.
    elijahg
  • Reply 60 of 65
    chasmchasm Posts: 2,404member
    Exactly as I predicted: Apple car TECHNOLOGY in a car produced by one of the big players.
    muthuk_vanalingam
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