Mostly agree although Tesla loses money in every car it sells. It is only profitable through sales of EV credits as offsets to other car manufacturers not yet meeting their EV targets. Once the other manufacturers meet these imposed targets Tesla will quickly be in a world of pain.
Note: I still don’t believe the Apple Car hoopla. I just see them using cars as a tech test bed. That said, I think you undersell Tesla’s business model as it is nothing short of genius.
Tesla figured out how to get other car manufactures to pay for them figuring out mass scale car manufacturing. Genius.
yes: the stock is in 2H2 O2 bubble territory and it will pop soon with a big boom IMO.
note: I thought the same of Apple in 2005 and 90% of my shares thinking: 300% in 3 years is too good to be true. Oops.
Yeh, it's amazing to me that those who hate China the most and predict that they'll never amount to anything tend to say the same about America's premier tech leader.
Combining Musk's various technologies and you have a person in LA thinking about a pizza from a shop in San Francisco and his car zooms off, picks up the pizza, and returns it to him still hot -- but it probably had to use ApplePay to pay for it - or maybe Paypal just for old times sake.
I think Hyundai will be for Apple Car that, what is Foxconn now for iPhone. They will produce a car, that is fully developed and designed by Apple: software and hardware included!
Oh, I see ... that is the trick ... fully developed and designed by Apple! Do you know how many parts a car has? I was not aware that Apple had experiences in development of all those parts!
The first Tesla from 2008 was based on Lotus Elise. It took Tesla many years to get there where they are today, and with regard to quality, Tesla will needs still years to get there were the traditional car manufacturers are.
Sorry to disappoint you, but not much would be developed by Apple. If at all, just "the skin" would be from Apple.
I agree in general with your thinking but: Cars over the next two or three decades will become as smart phones (and watches) are today.
We have grown used to Detroit changing the skin of a car and calling it "New" -- while in fact, cars have not progressed much for past 40 years. Just the same old technology with minor annual upgrades to the same-ol-same-ol.
But, self-driving EV's will begin to change that as the race will be on for cars that are better and better and better. In short I think the future of automobiles will be more similar to that of smart phones than the past 40 years of automobiles: 30 years ago I was using Samsung smart phone that integrated a cell phone in with a Palm Pilot -- it could browse the web, but barely, and its apps were severely restricted to things like e-books - and despite the fact that it was huge it had a tiny little black and white screen. But today my watch can do almost all of that. I think that is what we can expect from cars over the next 30 years.
The only working strategy is Apple licensing its self driving packages to automakers. Tesla is charging $10,000/car for it. Apple could further charge a subscription fee for updates.
Apple will not license anything. Major car brands are investing in their own proprietary software & autonomous systems. They’re not just going to hand over the keys to the kingdom to Apple.
Those same stuck in the mud auto maker executives will be entering into a tech revolution that they have never experienced -- the last were their great grandfathers.
As cars become primarily tech rather than mechanical monsters those dinosaurs will be dying and merging to survive.
Even companies like Tesla and Apple will be in the fight of their lives (at least in the world of autos).
As Musk predicted: soon, buying a traditional car will be like buying a horse.
Very simply, we need to stop looking at Detroit and even Japanese & European vehicles as the gold standard, the mark that others shoot for. They are all in catch-up mode and we won't know for another 10-20 years if they can survive much less succeed.
Meanwhile: China is rolling out both EVs and the charging stations to power them -- along with 5G to coordinate them. Can the U.S. catch up? We surrendered the last 4 years and in the world of tech that is a life time. But even more important, we have not yet grasped how the world of automobiles will be changing -- it's like we're clinging to the world of stream engines after internal combustion was perfected.
And Bosch has 30,000 software engineers working on varying aspects of Autonomous Driving and in January last year claimed that all of the technical hurdles had been overcome. The only things remaining were testing and refinement, standards and protocols, economies of scale and convincing users.
ROFL. Please check out the negative comments about EV's that the head of BOSCH made very recently. They might have done the groundwork but that may never see the light of day.
"Bosch has 30,000 engineers....."?
Xerox produced the basic UI for the Macintosh and even, eventually, Windows. They were unable to see the future and exploit it. They were stuck in the world of paper.
The past may be repeating itself. It almost always does.
In the 1880's the U.S. powered its way forward with men of vision -- men like Carnegie who took the Bessemer process and exploited it to build bridges and later entire cities and eventually steel rails and automobiles. Like Jobs, he was not a great inventor -- but he had vision. It takes both: innovation and vision (and the means of gathering capital).
Told you in my previous comment(Apple must have EV by 2025 if decided to get into EV race/market) when first time the news broke on AI that well known analyst Ming-Chi Kuo said Apple EV not until next 5-7 years. EV market is moving fast. Tesla proved it can be done and become #1 in valuation. GM said plans to release 30 new EVs globally by 2025, including more than 20 just for North America. Toyota will offer in next 2-3 years solid state battery EVs, So, Germans,Chinese,Koreans, all targeting on or before 2025. Apple if wants to be in EV market than better be 2024-25.
Why? Apple was late to the mobile phone market too. Look how well they’re doing now.
iPhone when came out, it was different and ahead of competition. Often there is a first mover advantage and not all products or markets Apple can come behind and take over. Homepod is one example. Apple is consumer electronics company and car doesn't fit into it but Apple thinks long and if Apple sees vertical integration benefits than Apple offer car and will be sooner than after everyone has car in market.
I suspect that any American factory will be simply final assembly -- much as Foxconn does. Few cars -- particularly "Amercan" ones are made solely in one country. For auto makers Mexico, the U.S. and Canada have operated more like the EU with parts flowing freely back and forth over borders.
Even decades ago Cadillac initiated that with one of its now defunct models -- moving it back and forth between the U.S. and Italy.
If its made entirely in the U.S. I doubt I'll be able to afford one. Or, if I can, be willing to part with that kind of cash. And, by the time is this car will be available, EV and even self-driving cars will be mainstream. But, I am glad to see this industry finally moving forward -- it's been stalled for the last 4 years. Biden will support the infrastructure (read charging stations) needed to support it and help it grow.
For myself, I'm tired of buying gasoline. And, as an older person living in the auto dependent suburbs and planning on getting even older, a self driving car could be a panacea. I fear having an accident and losing my license -- my entire lifestyle would change. But a self-driving car could make a huge difference.
Agreed, and I would add that most “American” cars built over the past 30+ years are composed of parts sourced from around the world. The “Made in the USA” claims on automobile sales stickers are a bit sketchy because the industry has lobbied to stretch the definition to put themselves in a more favorable (for USA) light by lumping together some major components that are made in Canada in the same bucket as USA sourced components.
At the end of the day, the brand or logo on the vehicle really should not matter a whole lot for workers and consumers as long as there are a wide spectrum of jobs created in and around the communities they care about. Also, no automobile manufacturer does everything (design, foundry, engines, stamping, assembly, etc.) themselves or in one location, and haven’t done so for decades. There are a multitude of OEMs, machine shops, and suppliers surrounding every production operation that create jobs. Over the past few decades more of these satellite operations, component suppliers, and associated operations have been spun off or outsourced outside of the manufacturers whose brand ends up on the car. Some of these spun off operations now supply components to other brands.
That’s just the parts, pieces, and labor for the day to day manufacturing operations. Another solar system of jobs and equipment are created around the construction of the plant, manufacturing equipment and machinery, automation, material handling (conveyors, monorails, AGVs, etc.), engineering services, etc. The materials, components, and services involved with any automobile manufacturing operation have tentacles that reach so far and wide that the final brand that ends up on the vehicle is more ceremonial than anything, at least when it comes to identifying who all the beneficiaries of the operation really are.
Envision a world where people are no longer allowed to drive their own cars because they are too unpredictable and are a danger others....
Is that really science fiction? The world of the Jetsons?
For 30 years the U.S. looked to and led the way into the future. But, for the last 20 years, we have been lamenting the loss of the past of coal mines and the like while a handful (Jobs, Gates, Musk, etc.) looked to the future. It is time that we, as a nation, led the way into the future once again -- before we become another UK clinging to old glories of the past.
The future will not stand still. Either we lead the way or we will follow the way. The choice, for the moment, is ours. Will we look to the future or to the past?
The only working strategy is Apple licensing its self driving packages to automakers. Tesla is charging $10,000/car for it. Apple could further charge a subscription fee for updates.
Apple will not license anything. Major car brands are investing in their own proprietary software & autonomous systems. They’re not just going to hand over the keys to the kingdom to Apple.
Those same stuck in the mud auto maker executives will be entering into a tech revolution that they have never experienced -- the last were their great grandfathers.
Mostly agree although Tesla loses money in every car it sells. It is only profitable through sales of EV credits as offsets to other car manufacturers not yet meeting their EV targets. Once the other manufacturers meet these imposed targets Tesla will quickly be in a world of pain.
Note: I still don’t believe the Apple Car hoopla. I just see them using cars as a tech test bed. That said, I think you undersell Tesla’s business model as it is nothing short of genius.
Tesla figured out how to get other car manufactures to pay for them figuring out mass scale car manufacturing. Genius.
yes: the stock is in 2H2 O2 bubble territory and it will pop soon with a big boom IMO.
note: I thought the same of Apple in 2005 and 90% of my shares thinking: 300% in 3 years is too good to be true. Oops.
Yeh, it's amazing to me that those who hate China the most and predict that they'll never amount to anything tend to say the same about America's premier tech leader.
Combining Musk's various technologies and you have a person in LA thinking about a pizza from a shop in San Francisco and his car zooms off, picks up the pizza, and returns it to him still hot -- but it probably had to use ApplePay to pay for it - or maybe Paypal just for old times sake.
And the auto insurance companies will be obsoleted soon.
The only working strategy is Apple licensing its self driving packages to automakers. Tesla is charging $10,000/car for it. Apple could further charge a subscription fee for updates.
Apple will not license anything. Major car brands are investing in their own proprietary software & autonomous systems. They’re not just going to hand over the keys to the kingdom to Apple.
Those same stuck in the mud auto maker executives will be entering into a tech revolution that they have never experienced -- the last were their great grandfathers.
As cars become primarily tech rather than mechanical monsters those dinosaurs will be dying and merging to survive.
Even companies like Tesla and Apple will be in the fight of their lives (at least in the world of autos).
As Musk predicted: soon, buying a traditional car will be like buying a horse.
Very simply, we need to stop looking at Detroit and even Japanese & European vehicles as the gold standard, the mark that others shoot for. They are all in catch-up mode and we won't know for another 10-20 years if they can survive much less succeed.
Meanwhile: China is rolling out both EVs and the charging stations to power them -- along with 5G to coordinate them. Can the U.S. catch up? We surrendered the last 4 years and in the world of tech that is a life time. But even more important, we have not yet grasped how the world of automobiles will be changing -- it's like we're clinging to the world of stream engines after internal combustion was perfected.
Nio introduced a 150 kWW battery pack which claimed to a range of 625 miles according to Yahoo Finace.
The only working strategy is Apple licensing its self driving packages to automakers. Tesla is charging $10,000/car for it. Apple could further charge a subscription fee for updates.
Apple will not license anything. Major car brands are investing in their own proprietary software & autonomous systems. They’re not just going to hand over the keys to the kingdom to Apple.
Those same stuck in the mud auto maker executives will be entering into a tech revolution that they have never experienced -- the last were their great grandfathers.
Meanwhile: China is ...
Oh geez.... China again in a non-relatged thread.
America's leading innovator recently announced:
“I think something that would be super cool would be ... to create a
China design and engineering centre to actually design an original car
in China for worldwide consumption. I think this would be very
exciting,” he said at a media event in Shanghai.
He is not stuck in the mud of the past like you.... He has vision. The question is: Can America keep up? Or, more correctly: Does America have the will to keep up?
Mostly agree although Tesla loses money in every car it sells. It is only profitable through sales of EV credits as offsets to other car manufacturers not yet meeting their EV targets. Once the other manufacturers meet these imposed targets Tesla will quickly be in a world of pain.
Note: I still don’t believe the Apple Car hoopla. I just see them using cars as a tech test bed. That said, I think you undersell Tesla’s business model as it is nothing short of genius.
Tesla figured out how to get other car manufactures to pay for them figuring out mass scale car manufacturing. Genius.
yes: the stock is in 2H2 O2 bubble territory and it will pop soon with a big boom IMO.
note: I thought the same of Apple in 2005 and 90% of my shares thinking: 300% in 3 years is too good to be true. Oops.
Yeh, it's amazing to me that those who hate China the most and predict that they'll never amount to anything tend to say the same about America's premier tech leader.
Combining Musk's various technologies and you have a person in LA thinking about a pizza from a shop in San Francisco and his car zooms off, picks up the pizza, and returns it to him still hot -- but it probably had to use ApplePay to pay for it - or maybe Paypal just for old times sake.
And the auto insurance companies will be obsoleted soon.
Insurance will always be with any capitalist society. But, it will have to adapt. I've never seen any clear, logical answers to the question of who will be liable when a self-driving car crashes into another self-driving car.
They're likely the only ones that can do it to Apple's standards and at a cost that allows Apple to make the margin it's going to need to justify entering the market
Elon Musk figured out how to do it in America from scratch, without Apple's money. Now he's the world's richest man. Why can't Apple be that smart?
But, he didn't limit himself to American technology. Neither did Andrew Carnegie for that matter. But both had the creativity and vision needed to move the world ahead.
Mostly agree although Tesla loses money in every car it sells. It is only profitable through sales of EV credits as offsets to other car manufacturers not yet meeting their EV targets. Once the other manufacturers meet these imposed targets Tesla will quickly be in a world of pain.
Note: I still don’t believe the Apple Car hoopla. I just see them using cars as a tech test bed. That said, I think you undersell Tesla’s business model as it is nothing short of genius.
Tesla figured out how to get other car manufactures to pay for them figuring out mass scale car manufacturing. Genius.
yes: the stock is in 2H2 O2 bubble territory and it will pop soon with a big boom IMO.
note: I thought the same of Apple in 2005 and 90% of my shares thinking: 300% in 3 years is too good to be true. Oops.
Yeh, it's amazing to me that those who hate China the most and predict that they'll never amount to anything tend to say the same about America's premier tech leader.
Combining Musk's various technologies and you have a person in LA thinking about a pizza from a shop in San Francisco and his car zooms off, picks up the pizza, and returns it to him still hot -- but it probably had to use ApplePay to pay for it - or maybe Paypal just for old times sake.
And the auto insurance companies will be obsoleted soon.
Insurance will always be with any capitalist society. But, it will have to adapt. I've never seen any clear, logical answers to the question of who will be liable when a self-driving car crashes into another self-driving car.
The rule of law in auto insurance is whoever is at fault will be responsible.
The only working strategy is Apple licensing its self driving packages to automakers. Tesla is charging $10,000/car for it. Apple could further charge a subscription fee for updates.
Apple will not license anything. Major car brands are investing in their own proprietary software & autonomous systems. They’re not just going to hand over the keys to the kingdom to Apple.
Those same stuck in the mud auto maker executives will be entering into a tech revolution that they have never experienced -- the last were their great grandfathers.
Meanwhile: China is ...
Oh geez.... China again in a non-relatged thread.
America's leading innovator recently announced:
“I think something that would be super cool would be ... to create a
China design and engineering centre to actually design an original car
in China for worldwide consumption. I think this would be very
exciting,” he said at a media event in Shanghai.
He is not stuck in the mud of the past like you.... He has vision. The question is: Can America keep up? Or, more correctly: Does America have the will to keep up?
You've said too many time4s already that for you it isn't a question. No need to muddy another discussion with your opinion that China will lead the world and the US is spiraling. Perhaps you'd be able to leave it out of the Apple car thread? Seriously, the Apple car itself is enough to fill out a lengthy discussion without the "China is" whatever distraction.
So what's your reaction to this, should Apple be building a car even if partnering with a traditional automaker to build it? Or do you favor going all the way with Apple mimicking Tesla and building their own automotive factories? As an investor do you believe it's a wise use of Apple resources?
Look at Genesis; Hyundai’s luxury brand. It’s cars are ranked at the top with the German luxury brands and often beats them in terms of quality and driving dynamics. I think this is going to be good for Apple.
I was going to say the same thing. Hyundai has followed the same path that the Japanese carmakers did. THey entered the market with small, cheap, average cars and rapidly improved, then expanded to the luxury market. I haven’t driven a Genesis, but the reviews have been glowing.
Comments
I agree in general with your thinking but: Cars over the next two or three decades will become as smart phones (and watches) are today.
iPhone when came out, it was different and ahead of competition. Often there is a first mover advantage and not all products or markets Apple can come behind and take over. Homepod is one example. Apple is consumer electronics company and car doesn't fit into it but Apple thinks long and if Apple sees vertical integration benefits than Apple offer car and will be sooner than after everyone has car in market.
At the end of the day, the brand or logo on the vehicle really should not matter a whole lot for workers and consumers as long as there are a wide spectrum of jobs created in and around the communities they care about. Also, no automobile manufacturer does everything (design, foundry, engines, stamping, assembly, etc.) themselves or in one location, and haven’t done so for decades. There are a multitude of OEMs, machine shops, and suppliers surrounding every production operation that create jobs. Over the past few decades more of these satellite operations, component suppliers, and associated operations have been spun off or outsourced outside of the manufacturers whose brand ends up on the car. Some of these spun off operations now supply components to other brands.
That’s just the parts, pieces, and labor for the day to day manufacturing operations. Another solar system of jobs and equipment are created around the construction of the plant, manufacturing equipment and machinery, automation, material handling (conveyors, monorails, AGVs, etc.), engineering services, etc. The materials, components, and services involved with any automobile manufacturing operation have tentacles that reach so far and wide that the final brand that ends up on the vehicle is more ceremonial than anything, at least when it comes to identifying who all the beneficiaries of the operation really are.
Nio introduced a 150 kWW battery pack which claimed to a range of 625 miles according to Yahoo Finace.
Insurance will always be with any capitalist society. But, it will have to adapt. I've never seen any clear, logical answers to the question of who will be liable when a self-driving car crashes into another self-driving car.
But, he didn't limit himself to American technology. Neither did Andrew Carnegie for that matter. But both had the creativity and vision needed to move the world ahead.
So what's your reaction to this, should Apple be building a car even if partnering with a traditional automaker to build it? Or do you favor going all the way with Apple mimicking Tesla and building their own automotive factories? As an investor do you believe it's a wise use of Apple resources?