Microsoft pits Surface Pro 7 against MacBook Pro in new ad

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 61
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,610member
    For a few years our corporate IT pushed surface pros in the replacement cycle to replace depreciated laptops, desktops and iPads. Because Microsoft.  
    A few took them up, and then uptake sort of...cratered and you see them less and less. Truth to tell they are not as good at being a laptop as laptops and not as good at being a tablet as built for purpose tablets. They are a sort of half arsed compromise and not as good as a dedicated device.

    So we still have iPads, and desktops are being phased out in favour of Dell latitudes ( awful, awful machines) and HP elitebooks and dragonflies (better than the latitudes). I would point out that those with iPads have laptop as well. Nobody should pretend a tablet is a laptop replacement. Not Microsoft and certainly not Apple. iPadOS needs a fair bit more work before that happens.

    Back to the surface pro though, I think the surface pro’s time is past.
    edited January 2021 tmaydarkvaderrezwitspscooter63magman1979inTIMidatorwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 61
    KTRKTR Posts: 244member
    lkrupp said:
    Best way to tell people you are afraid of the competition is to attack that competition. It puts the seed in the mind that, hey, maybe I ought to take a look at that competition since they’ve taken the time to trash it.
    So all those years that Apple ran the "I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" ad campaign where they continuously trashed Windows PC's, it means they were afraid of the competition? That's a lousy conclusion.
    I think now that apple's market had grown bigger.  I don't see them doing those ad's any more
    magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 61
    mwhite said:
    The YouTube video has the comments turned off? What are they afraid of?
    The White House YouTube comments have also been turned off, but in the case of the White House that’s a violation of the First Amendment.
    rezwits
  • Reply 24 of 61
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,610member
    The Mac vs PC ads were generic, and funny. Not tortured benchmarking against  a specific product.  
    williamlondonpscooter63magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 61
    Oh man, Desperate Times! At least Microsoft is swinging for the fences. Whenever you advertise by trying to discredit a competitor rather than promote your own strengths - That is what FEAR looks like.
    magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 61
    What, of course, Microsoft forgets is that Apple products, combining Apple hardware and software, by definition, will always work better. Apple products are also far more user-friendly.  This is largely borne out by huge numbers of people buying Apple products when, generally, they are more expensive. 
    magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 61
    The problem with comparing it to an iPad is that the Surface is a computer, while the iPad is a toy.

    When the iPad can run any software I want, from any source I choose, then it will be a fair comparison.  Until then, the iPad is utterly unsuitable for general purpose computing.
    ITGUYINSD
  • Reply 28 of 61
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    The ad is 100% correct:   My 8th grade grandson in cyberschool cannot do his work on a MacBook -- he CAN do it on a Surface Pro because one has a tablet function and the other does not.   That is particularly true in Algebra where he is asked to work out algebraic equations and do graphing -- you can do that with a pencil or stylus but not (easily) with a keyboard and trackpad - but he still needs a laptop for the rest of his work.

    Very simply, he needs both a tablet and a laptop to do his work.   The Surface Pro is both of those while the MacBook is only one of those.

    Apple needs to catch up to, not just to Microsoft, but the rest of the computing world that are pushing out 2 in 1's.
    edited January 2021 rezwitsmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 29 of 61
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    They’ve cornered the NFL market by giving them to them. It’s literally the only place I see them. 

    2 in 1's are everywhere....  That's really what the ad is about.
    canukstorm
  • Reply 30 of 61
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    cloudguy said:
    Yeah people ... no. The iPad - whether Pro or not - is a mobile device running a mobile operating system. It can't run full-fledged PC apps and it lacks PC versatility. It can't even do what a Chromebook with 8 GB of RAM and an Intel Core i3 CPU or better is capable of in Linux mode. You can't even do something simple like install VSCode or Atom and write Javascript or Python code on an iPad.

    Look, Apple types have been claiming "an iPad can replace a Windows laptop because Windows is horrible and people who use Windows instead of Macs are cheap dump unsophisticated uneducated losers" for 10 years. It won't work. You can't use an iPad for software development or engineering. You can't use an iPad for cybersecurity, network architecture or other IT work. An mechanical engineer can't use an iPad for CAD/CAM work, an architect can't use it for drafting. You can't use an iPad for data science. You can't even run full Excel or Access on an iPad for entry level analyst work. And those are the software limitations. If you are a sales/marketing/HR guy and are creating a presentation and need to use 2 screens: sorry you can't. The most the iPad is capable of is mirroring its single screen to a bigger one. And for entertainment? Sorry, you can't do AAA gaming with an iPad beyond the xCloud/Stadia/GeForce Now cloud stuff that you can also do on a $60 Walmart Android tablet. But you can on a Surface device that has an Intel Core i7 CPU and an Nvidia graphics card. And you will be able to do so on the next generation Surface Pro 7 which will have Iris Xe graphics. 

    Sorry. The iPad is a tablet. The Surface is a PC. If you want a tablet to do real work, you should either get an iPad Pro - not an iPad Air - or a Samsung Galaxy Tab S7 Pro (which with DeX has desktop features that iPads lack). But if you want a PC, do not get an iPad or any other tablet. Get a MacBook, a Windows PC or - if you know Linux - a good Chromebook.

    And if you want to know why Microsoft didn't compare this device with a MacBook Air ... honestly they should. The ad could show that the Surface can do all the PC things that a MacBook Air can do while pointing out the touchscreen/2-in-1 things that the MacBook Air can't do. But hey, remember it was Apple who began this in the first place with their utterly false advertising "the iPad can replace your Windows PC" campaign more than 10 years ago. So don't complain when Microsoft is throwing the same nonsense back at you.

    That's all true and well spoken....
    But, the iPad (with a keyboard & mouse) COULD replace the PC -- IF Apple would upgrade its OS.   Right now it's in limbo land somewhere between a dummied down iOS and full function MacOS.  It's limitations (for 90%) of users is not its hardware but its software.
    edited January 2021 canukstormmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 31 of 61
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,895member
    crowley said:
    lkrupp said:
    Best way to tell people you are afraid of the competition is to attack that competition. It puts the seed in the mind that, hey, maybe I ought to take a look at that competition since they’ve taken the time to trash it.
    Or, just CANCEL them like Apple did Parlor.  That's right.  Just CANCEL them.  
    Parler are not a competitor to Apple, they're just a bunch of whiny morons.
    Or they are complaining about obvious business interference, political bias and the defacto end of free speech.  Three companies worked in concert to wipe a platform off the internet under the guise of “preventing violence.”  Meanwhile, other platforms allow such content openly.  See:  Facebook and Twitter. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 61
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    lam92103 said:
    Unless surface can run macOS, what is the point even?

    Good point!
    The MacBook can run Windows.
    Correction:   The MacBook USED TO BE ABLE to run Windows.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 33 of 61
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    lkrupp said:
    Best way to tell people you are afraid of the competition is to attack that competition. It puts the seed in the mind that, hey, maybe I ought to take a look at that competition since they’ve taken the time to trash it.

    Pointing out errors, deficiencies and failures is not "attacking the competition" if it is done honestly and fairly.   It is pointing out their errors, deficiencies and failures
    edited January 2021 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 34 of 61
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    entropys said:
    ...
    Back to the surface pro though, I think the surface pro’s time is past.

    Quite the opposite.   It is just starting.   Apple needs to catch up. 
  • Reply 35 of 61
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    mwhite said:
    The YouTube video has the comments turned off? What are they afraid of?
    The White House YouTube comments have also been turned off, but in the case of the White House that’s a violation of the First Amendment.

    Promoting violence and sedition edition is against YouTube's rules.
    revenantmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 36 of 61
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    What, of course, Microsoft forgets is that Apple products, combining Apple hardware and software, by definition, will always work better. Apple products are also far more user-friendly.  This is largely borne out by huge numbers of people buying Apple products when, generally, they are more expensive. 

    Providing it can do the job at all:
    If you're taking 8th grade Algebra then your MacBook can't be used to write out the answers to the equations or graph the answers.  You either need to buy a separate tablet and pencil (and possibly keyboard and mouse) or a 2 in 1 like the surface.   But, if you're traveling to school and/or don't have excess cash laying around, the 2 in 1 makes much better sense than buying and lugging aronnd multiple separate devices.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 37 of 61
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    sdw2001 said:
    crowley said:
    lkrupp said:
    Best way to tell people you are afraid of the competition is to attack that competition. It puts the seed in the mind that, hey, maybe I ought to take a look at that competition since they’ve taken the time to trash it.
    Or, just CANCEL them like Apple did Parlor.  That's right.  Just CANCEL them.  
    Parler are not a competitor to Apple, they're just a bunch of whiny morons.
    Or they are complaining about obvious business interference, political bias and the defacto end of free speech.  Three companies worked in concert to wipe a platform off the internet under the guise of “preventing violence.”  Meanwhile, other platforms allow such content openly.  See:  Facebook and Twitter. 

    Except for the fringe players catering to fringe players, all social media is cracking down on the promotion of violence and disinformation.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 38 of 61
    qwerty52 said:
    Typically for Microsoft, always dirty players. They are comparing in fact apples with pears. How unfair is that
    But every company comparing  their own products with Apple ones is admitting that Apple is the best.

    Says the person whose Apple bias is on full display!
    MactintGeorgeBMaccanukstormrevenant
  • Reply 39 of 61
    cloudguy said:
    Yeah people ... no. The iPad - whether Pro or not - is a mobile device running a mobile operating system. It can't run full-fledged PC apps and it lacks PC versatility. It can't even do what a Chromebook with 8 GB of RAM and an Intel Core i3 CPU or better is capable of in Linux mode. You can't even do something simple like install VSCode or Atom and write Javascript or Python code on an iPad.

    Look, Apple types have been claiming "an iPad can replace a Windows laptop because Windows is horrible and people who use Windows instead of Macs are cheap dump unsophisticated uneducated losers" for 10 years. It won't work. You can't use an iPad for software development or engineering. You can't use an iPad for cybersecurity, network architecture or other IT work. An mechanical engineer can't use an iPad for CAD/CAM work, an architect can't use it for drafting. You can't use an iPad for data science. You can't even run full Excel or Access on an iPad for entry level analyst work. And those are the software limitations. If you are a sales/marketing/HR guy and are creating a presentation and need to use 2 screens: sorry you can't. The most the iPad is capable of is mirroring its single screen to a bigger one. And for entertainment? Sorry, you can't do AAA gaming with an iPad beyond the xCloud/Stadia/GeForce Now cloud stuff that you can also do on a $60 Walmart Android tablet. But you can on a Surface device that has an Intel Core i7 CPU and an Nvidia graphics card. And you will be able to do so on the next generation Surface Pro 7 which will have Iris Xe graphics. 

    Sorry. The iPad is a tablet. The Surface is a PC. If you want a tablet to do real work, you should either get an iPad Pro - not an iPad Air - or a Samsung Galaxy Tab S7 Pro (which with DeX has desktop features that iPads lack). But if you want a PC, do not get an iPad or any other tablet. Get a MacBook, a Windows PC or - if you know Linux - a good Chromebook.

    And if you want to know why Microsoft didn't compare this device with a MacBook Air ... honestly they should. The ad could show that the Surface can do all the PC things that a MacBook Air can do while pointing out the touchscreen/2-in-1 things that the MacBook Air can't do. But hey, remember it was Apple who began this in the first place with their utterly false advertising "the iPad can replace your Windows PC" campaign more than 10 years ago. So don't complain when Microsoft is throwing the same nonsense back at you.

    That's all true and well spoken....
    But, the iPad (with a keyboard & mouse) COULD replace the PC -- IF Apple would upgrade its OS.   Right now it's in limbo land somewhere between a dummied down iOS and full function MacOS.  It's limitations (for 90%) of users is not its hardware but its software.
    Agree completely.  I bought the uber-expensive smart keyboard for my ipad pro 12.9 and tried using it to replace my Dell XPS 13 (a fantastic notebook).  My main frustration with the iPad is switching between apps...it loses focus where I was when I switch back to an app or in the case of remote desktop-like software I use to manage systems, it downright disconnects me if I switch away for mere moments.  

    I guess Apple thinks everyone edits photos or draws for a living.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 40 of 61
    cloudguy said:
    You can't even do something simple like install VSCode or Atom and write Javascript or Python code on an iPad.

    WTF are you talking about?  I write code on an iPad all the time (Python, Perl, PHP, BASH, etc.) - there are many fine code editors (VSCode is not one of them & Atom is ok) and there is even a Python IDE that actually runs Python code - Pythonista 3 & a version for Python 2.  Here is a PHP IDE I've used on an iPad - DraftCode Offline PHP IDE.

    VSCode on macOS is a PoS - doesn't even follow standard keyboard shortcuts.  It's just a poorly ported Windows app.

    I tried Atom on macOS for some embedded development - another poorly ported app, with some good ideas, but if things like undo/redo don't follow standard Mac app conventions - WTF?!?!?
    stompyrevenantpscooter63jdb8167watto_cobra
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