Apple pauses 'Apple Car' talks with Hyundai, report says

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 60
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    elijahg said:
    If this is down to the report leaking, it's pretty stupid. Apple really has no weight to throw around in the vehicle arena, and as others have said it has to be an equal partnership. Apple isn't used to that, they usually dictate terms (and how much they'll pay) to Chinese companies who simply pay their workers less to seal the deal. That's not an option with a car company in a country that has workers rights, and who uses permanent salaried staff.

    Apple's secrecy doesn't really do them any favours nowadays, as almost every aspect of the hardware in a product is leaked months before announcement anyway; so ditching a supplier because of it is pretty stupid. It's unbelievable that Apple still refuses to sign Nvidia's drivers due to a leak 6 years back. Incredibly childish. But a downside of these leaks is they contribute to there being little hype or excitement around announcements anymore (though the lack of passion from Cook doesn't help either). So much for him "doubling down" on secrecy.

    Perhaps Apple should just hire these two gentleman:  the original founders, designers and builders of Tesla (hint neither is named "Elon").
    They had no weight to throw around either.   In fact, one of their biggest challenges (aside from figuring out how to keep their car from blowing up) was obtaining mundane, off-the-shelf stuff like door handles, seat belts and airbags.   As one manufacturer told them:  'Your whole order is less than a prototype run from a real car company!'

    Eventually, after meeting Elon at a Mars conference, they brought Elon Musk into the fold and he became the CEO (actually, the 4th CEO!).

    But, these are the guys who had the vision and proceeded to design and build a revolutionary car from scratch.










    edited February 2021 elijahgcornchip
  • Reply 42 of 60
    elijahg said:

    It sounds like Apple may need Hyundai more than Hyundai needs Apple.
    With all the existing excess capacity in the industry, and massive amounts coming since the EV revolution is smacking these dinosaurs right between the eyes faster than a speeding missile, carmakers are dime-a-dozen.

    Soon they'll be begging for business from companies like Apple.

    Hyundai already has an EV.   What does Apple have?  Or maybe that's why Apple is wooing them?
    Image result for hyundai ev cars





    Good for Hyundai (old news). Go buy one for your next 25 years and leave us alone. 

    Let us know ten years from now how it's working out for you. 
    I have a 21 year old Hyundai. It's still going great, by far the most reliable car anyone in my family has had. Had a Ford, rotted to bits. Had an Audi, rotted and (frequent) repairs were expensive, as were parts. Two friends have Toyotas. Horrible to work on, both very rusty. Your preconceptions are completely wrong, have you looked at car reliability charts recently? Occupying many of the top 10 spots is Hyundai. The first Audi is 50 down the list. 
    My kids owned a Hyundai Elantra. A lot of car for the money, I'll grant that. But it was no better or worse reliability- or quality-wise than any other cars we've owned in the family, including Saabs, Toyotas, Lexuses, Audis, BMWs.

    My one data point is as good as your one data point. 
    watto_cobracornchip
  • Reply 43 of 60
    AB101AB101 Posts: 27member
    Knowing how Apple could be, I am not sure hy an automotive manufacturer would want to even get involved with Apple. They sure as hell would not dictate a damn thing to me given the fact they have never even built a car before. And somehow, Apple would reap all the profit while said car manufacturer would probably end up losing their shirt on the deal.

    Seems like a hard pass to me.
    GeorgeBMacelijahg
  • Reply 44 of 60
    AB101AB101 Posts: 27member
    If Apple is the end all be all of car companies, they should be able to build their own car then. Why help a potential competitor?
  • Reply 45 of 60
    When you step back a bit to see all of the reports about the Apple Car, you see many reports from Bloomberg. Those reports oscillate from high-to-low-to-high sentimentally as the supposed March timeframe for a signed deal to be done approach.

    The on again, off again talks. The angst unnamed Hyundai managers are feeling and talking about... to Bloomberg. After preparing a $3.6B investment in Kia in February, the talks suddenly stall due to something that happened in January? Really?

    The drama. The orchestration of drama by Bloomberg is crystal clear. 

    Look for Apple Car talks to be on/off a few more times and will be reported mostly by... Bloomberg. 
  • Reply 46 of 60
    Doubt it matters at this point. Don’t give too much credibility to anything you read. Just expect an unbelievably high price tag when it does finally launch and to do stuff you never even knew you wanted.

    can’t say I’m a believer in the concept at this point. It just doesn’t seem a good strategic fit for the company.   
    elijahg
  • Reply 47 of 60
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,358member
    elijahg said:

    It sounds like Apple may need Hyundai more than Hyundai needs Apple.
    With all the existing excess capacity in the industry, and massive amounts coming since the EV revolution is smacking these dinosaurs right between the eyes faster than a speeding missile, carmakers are dime-a-dozen.

    Soon they'll be begging for business from companies like Apple.

    Hyundai already has an EV.   What does Apple have?  Or maybe that's why Apple is wooing them?
    Image result for hyundai ev cars





    Good for Hyundai (old news). Go buy one for your next 25 years and leave us alone. 

    Let us know ten years from now how it's working out for you. 
    I have a 21 year old Hyundai. It's still going great, by far the most reliable car anyone in my family has had. Had a Ford, rotted to bits. Had an Audi, rotted and (frequent) repairs were expensive, as were parts. Two friends have Toyotas. Horrible to work on, both very rusty. Your preconceptions are completely wrong, have you looked at car reliability charts recently? Occupying many of the top 10 spots is Hyundai. The first Audi is 50 down the list. 
    My kids owned a Hyundai Elantra. A lot of car for the money, I'll grant that. But it was no better or worse reliability- or quality-wise than any other cars we've owned in the family, including Saabs, Toyotas, Lexuses, Audis, BMWs.

    My one data point is as good as your one data point. 
    Here's some more data points then: https://www.whatcar.com/news/2020-what-car-reliability-survey-brands/n20069

    Hyundai (and Kia) ranking highly.  Note Tesla's position on the list - that's probably why Apple wants to partner with a company with a proven track record rather than go it alone.
    elijahg
  • Reply 48 of 60
    danoxdanox Posts: 1,162member
    It sounds like Apple may need Hyundai more than Hyundai needs Apple.
    Samsung and Intel had the same mental midget thinking....
    danhwatto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 60
    crowley said:
    elijahg said:

    It sounds like Apple may need Hyundai more than Hyundai needs Apple.
    With all the existing excess capacity in the industry, and massive amounts coming since the EV revolution is smacking these dinosaurs right between the eyes faster than a speeding missile, carmakers are dime-a-dozen.

    Soon they'll be begging for business from companies like Apple.

    Hyundai already has an EV.   What does Apple have?  Or maybe that's why Apple is wooing them?
    Image result for hyundai ev cars





    Good for Hyundai (old news). Go buy one for your next 25 years and leave us alone. 

    Let us know ten years from now how it's working out for you. 
    I have a 21 year old Hyundai. It's still going great, by far the most reliable car anyone in my family has had. Had a Ford, rotted to bits. Had an Audi, rotted and (frequent) repairs were expensive, as were parts. Two friends have Toyotas. Horrible to work on, both very rusty. Your preconceptions are completely wrong, have you looked at car reliability charts recently? Occupying many of the top 10 spots is Hyundai. The first Audi is 50 down the list. 
    My kids owned a Hyundai Elantra. A lot of car for the money, I'll grant that. But it was no better or worse reliability- or quality-wise than any other cars we've owned in the family, including Saabs, Toyotas, Lexuses, Audis, BMWs.

    My one data point is as good as your one data point. 
    Here's some more data points then: https://www.whatcar.com/news/2020-what-car-reliability-survey-brands/n20069

    Hyundai (and Kia) ranking highly.  Note Tesla's position on the list - that's probably why Apple wants to partner with a company with a proven track record rather than go it alone.
    OTOH, take a look at the Consumer Reports owner satisfaction rankings of cars that came out yesterday. Hyundai does well, but Kia is lower.

    Also, look at where Tesla is ranked.
  • Reply 50 of 60
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    crowley said:
    elijahg said:

    It sounds like Apple may need Hyundai more than Hyundai needs Apple.
    With all the existing excess capacity in the industry, and massive amounts coming since the EV revolution is smacking these dinosaurs right between the eyes faster than a speeding missile, carmakers are dime-a-dozen.

    Soon they'll be begging for business from companies like Apple.

    Hyundai already has an EV.   What does Apple have?  Or maybe that's why Apple is wooing them?
    Image result for hyundai ev cars





    Good for Hyundai (old news). Go buy one for your next 25 years and leave us alone. 

    Let us know ten years from now how it's working out for you. 
    I have a 21 year old Hyundai. It's still going great, by far the most reliable car anyone in my family has had. Had a Ford, rotted to bits. Had an Audi, rotted and (frequent) repairs were expensive, as were parts. Two friends have Toyotas. Horrible to work on, both very rusty. Your preconceptions are completely wrong, have you looked at car reliability charts recently? Occupying many of the top 10 spots is Hyundai. The first Audi is 50 down the list. 
    My kids owned a Hyundai Elantra. A lot of car for the money, I'll grant that. But it was no better or worse reliability- or quality-wise than any other cars we've owned in the family, including Saabs, Toyotas, Lexuses, Audis, BMWs.

    My one data point is as good as your one data point. 
    Here's some more data points then: https://www.whatcar.com/news/2020-what-car-reliability-survey-brands/n20069

    Hyundai (and Kia) ranking highly.  Note Tesla's position on the list - that's probably why Apple wants to partner with a company with a proven track record rather than go it alone.
    OTOH, take a look at the Consumer Reports owner satisfaction rankings of cars that came out yesterday. Hyundai does well, but Kia is lower.

    Also, look at where Tesla is ranked.

    I stopped trusting anything Consumer Reports says a decade or two ago.
    I don't know that they're biased (maybe).  But they suffer from the same problem that the medical industry suffers from:  they depend on laboratory type experiments and data that may or may not reflect reality.
    elijahgcornchip
  • Reply 51 of 60
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Business Insider had an interesting take on it (published on Apple News+ today):
    They said essentially:   Don't count on seeing an Apple Car.   To build great cars requires a great entrepreneur like Ford, Ferrari, or Musk -- none of whom cared about the money (except for keeping score and as a means to an end) but only about the product and/or the end result (racing for Ferrari, a cheap auto for the masses for Ford and moving the world away from carbon based fuels for Musk).  

    Tim, they said, is a great CEO who specializes in not making stupid mistakes -- but he's not an entrepreneur.
    Meanwhile, others have a decade (or two!) head start on him.
  • Reply 52 of 60
    crowley said:
    elijahg said:

    It sounds like Apple may need Hyundai more than Hyundai needs Apple.
    With all the existing excess capacity in the industry, and massive amounts coming since the EV revolution is smacking these dinosaurs right between the eyes faster than a speeding missile, carmakers are dime-a-dozen.

    Soon they'll be begging for business from companies like Apple.

    Hyundai already has an EV.   What does Apple have?  Or maybe that's why Apple is wooing them?
    Image result for hyundai ev cars





    Good for Hyundai (old news). Go buy one for your next 25 years and leave us alone. 

    Let us know ten years from now how it's working out for you. 
    I have a 21 year old Hyundai. It's still going great, by far the most reliable car anyone in my family has had. Had a Ford, rotted to bits. Had an Audi, rotted and (frequent) repairs were expensive, as were parts. Two friends have Toyotas. Horrible to work on, both very rusty. Your preconceptions are completely wrong, have you looked at car reliability charts recently? Occupying many of the top 10 spots is Hyundai. The first Audi is 50 down the list. 
    My kids owned a Hyundai Elantra. A lot of car for the money, I'll grant that. But it was no better or worse reliability- or quality-wise than any other cars we've owned in the family, including Saabs, Toyotas, Lexuses, Audis, BMWs.

    My one data point is as good as your one data point. 
    Here's some more data points then: https://www.whatcar.com/news/2020-what-car-reliability-survey-brands/n20069

    Hyundai (and Kia) ranking highly.  Note Tesla's position on the list - that's probably why Apple wants to partner with a company with a proven track record rather than go it alone.
    OTOH, take a look at the Consumer Reports owner satisfaction rankings of cars that came out yesterday. Hyundai does well, but Kia is lower.

    Also, look at where Tesla is ranked.

    I stopped trusting anything Consumer Reports says a decade or two ago.
    I don't know that they're biased (maybe).  But they suffer from the same problem that the medical industry suffers from:  they depend on laboratory type experiments and data that may or may not reflect reality.
    Pointless post.

    For example,  I've never heard of "whatcar.com". So what?
    edited February 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 60
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,358member
    crowley said:
    elijahg said:

    It sounds like Apple may need Hyundai more than Hyundai needs Apple.
    With all the existing excess capacity in the industry, and massive amounts coming since the EV revolution is smacking these dinosaurs right between the eyes faster than a speeding missile, carmakers are dime-a-dozen.

    Soon they'll be begging for business from companies like Apple.

    Hyundai already has an EV.   What does Apple have?  Or maybe that's why Apple is wooing them?
    Image result for hyundai ev cars





    Good for Hyundai (old news). Go buy one for your next 25 years and leave us alone. 

    Let us know ten years from now how it's working out for you. 
    I have a 21 year old Hyundai. It's still going great, by far the most reliable car anyone in my family has had. Had a Ford, rotted to bits. Had an Audi, rotted and (frequent) repairs were expensive, as were parts. Two friends have Toyotas. Horrible to work on, both very rusty. Your preconceptions are completely wrong, have you looked at car reliability charts recently? Occupying many of the top 10 spots is Hyundai. The first Audi is 50 down the list. 
    My kids owned a Hyundai Elantra. A lot of car for the money, I'll grant that. But it was no better or worse reliability- or quality-wise than any other cars we've owned in the family, including Saabs, Toyotas, Lexuses, Audis, BMWs.

    My one data point is as good as your one data point. 
    Here's some more data points then: https://www.whatcar.com/news/2020-what-car-reliability-survey-brands/n20069

    Hyundai (and Kia) ranking highly.  Note Tesla's position on the list - that's probably why Apple wants to partner with a company with a proven track record rather than go it alone.
    OTOH, take a look at the Consumer Reports owner satisfaction rankings of cars that came out yesterday. Hyundai does well, but Kia is lower.

    Also, look at where Tesla is ranked.

    I stopped trusting anything Consumer Reports says a decade or two ago.
    I don't know that they're biased (maybe).  But they suffer from the same problem that the medical industry suffers from:  they depend on laboratory type experiments and data that may or may not reflect reality.
    Pointless post.

    For example,  I've never heard of "whatcar.com". So what?
    It’s a long running and self regarded UK car magazine.
    elijahg
  • Reply 54 of 60
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    crowley said:
    elijahg said:

    It sounds like Apple may need Hyundai more than Hyundai needs Apple.
    With all the existing excess capacity in the industry, and massive amounts coming since the EV revolution is smacking these dinosaurs right between the eyes faster than a speeding missile, carmakers are dime-a-dozen.

    Soon they'll be begging for business from companies like Apple.

    Hyundai already has an EV.   What does Apple have?  Or maybe that's why Apple is wooing them?
    Image result for hyundai ev cars





    Good for Hyundai (old news). Go buy one for your next 25 years and leave us alone. 

    Let us know ten years from now how it's working out for you. 
    I have a 21 year old Hyundai. It's still going great, by far the most reliable car anyone in my family has had. Had a Ford, rotted to bits. Had an Audi, rotted and (frequent) repairs were expensive, as were parts. Two friends have Toyotas. Horrible to work on, both very rusty. Your preconceptions are completely wrong, have you looked at car reliability charts recently? Occupying many of the top 10 spots is Hyundai. The first Audi is 50 down the list. 
    My kids owned a Hyundai Elantra. A lot of car for the money, I'll grant that. But it was no better or worse reliability- or quality-wise than any other cars we've owned in the family, including Saabs, Toyotas, Lexuses, Audis, BMWs.

    My one data point is as good as your one data point. 
    Here's some more data points then: https://www.whatcar.com/news/2020-what-car-reliability-survey-brands/n20069

    Hyundai (and Kia) ranking highly.  Note Tesla's position on the list - that's probably why Apple wants to partner with a company with a proven track record rather than go it alone.
    OTOH, take a look at the Consumer Reports owner satisfaction rankings of cars that came out yesterday. Hyundai does well, but Kia is lower.

    Also, look at where Tesla is ranked.

    I stopped trusting anything Consumer Reports says a decade or two ago.
    I don't know that they're biased (maybe).  But they suffer from the same problem that the medical industry suffers from:  they depend on laboratory type experiments and data that may or may not reflect reality.
    Pointless post.

    For example,  I've never heard of "whatcar.com". So what?

    LOL....  So, if you don't like the answer then "It's pointless".    Got it.
    elijahg
  • Reply 55 of 60
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,358member
    *well regarded.
  • Reply 56 of 60
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,633member
    elijahg said:

    It sounds like Apple may need Hyundai more than Hyundai needs Apple.
    With all the existing excess capacity in the industry, and massive amounts coming since the EV revolution is smacking these dinosaurs right between the eyes faster than a speeding missile, carmakers are dime-a-dozen.

    Soon they'll be begging for business from companies like Apple.

    Hyundai already has an EV.   What does Apple have?  Or maybe that's why Apple is wooing them?
    Image result for hyundai ev cars





    Good for Hyundai (old news). Go buy one for your next 25 years and leave us alone. 

    Let us know ten years from now how it's working out for you. 
    I have a 21 year old Hyundai. It's still going great, by far the most reliable car anyone in my family has had. Had a Ford, rotted to bits. Had an Audi, rotted and (frequent) repairs were expensive, as were parts. Two friends have Toyotas. Horrible to work on, both very rusty. Your preconceptions are completely wrong, have you looked at car reliability charts recently? Occupying many of the top 10 spots is Hyundai. The first Audi is 50 down the list. 
    My kids owned a Hyundai Elantra. A lot of car for the money, I'll grant that. But it was no better or worse reliability- or quality-wise than any other cars we've owned in the family, including Saabs, Toyotas, Lexuses, Audis, BMWs.

    My one data point is as good as your one data point. 
    Apart from the fact that I told you about the car reliability charts, which cover a lot more than one data point.
  • Reply 57 of 60
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,633member

    crowley said:
    elijahg said:

    It sounds like Apple may need Hyundai more than Hyundai needs Apple.
    With all the existing excess capacity in the industry, and massive amounts coming since the EV revolution is smacking these dinosaurs right between the eyes faster than a speeding missile, carmakers are dime-a-dozen.

    Soon they'll be begging for business from companies like Apple.

    Hyundai already has an EV.   What does Apple have?  Or maybe that's why Apple is wooing them?
    Image result for hyundai ev cars





    Good for Hyundai (old news). Go buy one for your next 25 years and leave us alone. 

    Let us know ten years from now how it's working out for you. 
    I have a 21 year old Hyundai. It's still going great, by far the most reliable car anyone in my family has had. Had a Ford, rotted to bits. Had an Audi, rotted and (frequent) repairs were expensive, as were parts. Two friends have Toyotas. Horrible to work on, both very rusty. Your preconceptions are completely wrong, have you looked at car reliability charts recently? Occupying many of the top 10 spots is Hyundai. The first Audi is 50 down the list. 
    My kids owned a Hyundai Elantra. A lot of car for the money, I'll grant that. But it was no better or worse reliability- or quality-wise than any other cars we've owned in the family, including Saabs, Toyotas, Lexuses, Audis, BMWs.

    My one data point is as good as your one data point. 
    Here's some more data points then: https://www.whatcar.com/news/2020-what-car-reliability-survey-brands/n20069

    Hyundai (and Kia) ranking highly.  Note Tesla's position on the list - that's probably why Apple wants to partner with a company with a proven track record rather than go it alone.
    OTOH, take a look at the Consumer Reports owner satisfaction rankings of cars that came out yesterday. Hyundai does well, but Kia is lower.

    Also, look at where Tesla is ranked.
    According to that survey, Hyundai is *still* better than any of the German or Japanese brands that you personally rate above Hyundai (apart from Subaru, but they're a pretty small player), and it doesn't reflect any other survey. So you've proven our point. Also, Tesla owners are like owners of Apple products; they are significantly biased toward recommending the product due to brand loyalty, even if the product isn't actually that great. And as others have said, they'd be a contract manufacturer much like Foxconn who produces Samsung, Huawei, no-name etc phones as well as Apple phones.
    edited February 2021 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 58 of 60
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 942member
    I never believed any of these rumors about an Apple Car.

    Project Titan is never going to result in an Apple Car. Apple may handle some of the smarts in a smart car, but they'll never produce a car themselves. It's just too risky an enterprise, and in a field which Apple has no expertise. 

    Remember the Apple TV -- a real TV? They probably could have put something like that together but clearly did not. It's like that for a car only worse. 
  • Reply 59 of 60
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,084member
    MplsP said:
    jdw said:
    Apple is also said to be in talks with multiple Japanese carmakers
    That is certainly a relief to hear!  Such would help ensure Apple a place in the world's third largest economy.  That doesn't mean smoothly sailing though because I've only rarely seen a Tesla here and there on the roads in central Japan.  But it's better than ZERO, which is the case for Hyundai or Kia cars in Japan.  It would also ensure the highest standard of build quality moving forward.
    Hyundai/kia aren't exactly 2nd rate cars, and not all Japanese cars are stellar. More importantly for me, the Toyota dealers around here are have horrible service. 
    You never said where "here" is.  Also, your post misses the point I was making about what is successful in Japan -- the word's third largest economy.  Hyundai/Kia cars are nowhere to be found here in Japan.  That's the key point.  So by partnering with an automaker that has zero success in the world's third largest economy, regardless of reason, you are potentially limiting sales in that region, if not blocking them altogether.

    Now that the news has hit that Apple's talks with Kia have stopped, the point is moot.  It seems Apple is now negotiating with some major Japanese car makers, which makes a lot more sense, regardless of whether some Japanese car dealers outside Japan are considered to have "horrible service."  I can assure you that is not the case in Japan and is why Toyota has a 40% share of the Japanese auto market.
  • Reply 60 of 60
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,911member
    longpath said:
    I’m hardly the darling choice of any auto manufacturer, as my daily is a 2006, and it was a 2004...

    Me either. My daily is an ‘86 3-series. 
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