<strong>I vote for TiVo... it has the best chance of survival and it has a great UI and remote.
PS - some people are way too loyal to products they use... it's just a DVR... calm down.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't care if it has a command line. UI is nice but Tivo drops the ball on Consumer Orientated features. Most of us are trying to maximize the little freakin' time we have after the typical workday and commute. Therefore DVR's primary benefit isn't UI(Hell VCR Plus had a horrible UI but it worked) but rather can it revolutionize our viewing habits. ReplayTV wins when looked at from that perspective IMO.
Which "Consumer Orientated features" has TiVo dropped the ball on? I'm curious, other than the geek-oriented features, what features that 90% of consumers could and would use are missing on TiVo?
Also, earlier you mentioned that "eventually their (there) will be computer based PVR's without the monthly or lifetime service and consumers will migrate quickly to those." I disagree. Consumers will never come to grips with using a PVR on their computers. Instead, it is the cable companies that will offer TiVo/Replay functionality without the monthly service fees. Time Warner is already previewing their PVR cable box in many markets. It has an 80GB hard drive and a nifty interface that is already familiar to millions of cable subscribers. Plus, no monthly fees...
In my opinion, it is the cable companies that will eventually win out in the PVR marketplace. However, rumor has it that a couple of key cable ops may license the TiVo software for their own cable PVR boxes. Sony has already licensed the TiVo technology for two other products. Toshiba is producing a TiVo/DVD combo for Xmas. The TiVo machines may not survive, but the technology certainly will.
I have a replay, have upgraded two of them (one for my dad), and am ordering another one. I love it. I've never used a tivo, but I honestly can't think how the interface could get any simpler. Also, I really like supporting SonicBlue because they have consistently supported technologies that empower the consumer. Besides, worst case scenario If they ultimately get squashed by the copyright cartels is that they and tivo are equally hobbled.
I ordered one of the new internet enabled ones and am looking forward to being able to watch my shows on my powerbook through airport while sitting at the breakfast table (or at work).
I'd like to get a DVR, but the monthly service fee still bothers me. $250 is perhaps worth the entire price, but certainly not anything more than that, at least not in my mind.
Also, it would be nice if ReplayTV had the Rendezvous features as well. If TiVo really isn't as good as RTV, then it seems to have the upper hand on this front at the very least.
Well, it will when it's actually implemented and available for sale. Until then, it's vapor.
Since ZeroConf (Rendezvous) is an open standard, and since Apple even released a pretty full ZC/R implementation via open source, I can't imagine RTV *not* getting this at some point fairly soon. They've been on the leading edge of cool stuff for PVRs, this is just one thing I see them being second on for once.
According to /., Sonicblue just filed for bankruptcy and sold all their assets to Japan's D&M: Denon & Marantz. *THAT* could be interesting. Hopefully the technology will live on.
Naw, they just didn't get the herd mentality going for them, ala M$.
Technologically, TiVo's been playing catchup to ReplayTV since the beginning... they grabbed the mindshare however to the point that to most people PVR == TiVo, period. Kinda like how PC == Windows to 95% of the population.
No need to further drive that point home though... ah well.
My second ReplayTV is due to arrive on Monday and I'm not worried. ReplayTV hasn't been EOL'd it's just been bought by another company.
Honestly, I don't understand the herd mentality with these units. It's not like Beta vs. VHS, it doesn't matter if everyone else uses Tivo unless I suppose network video sharing catches on big time and Tivo locks up the format.
Worst case scenario, the new company kills ReplayTV and it's online guide and in seconds a hack is available to use any of the free online guides already available on the internet (some people have already done this). I highly doubt this will happen, however.
my guess is that within 18 months TiVo will be absorbed into some holding company owned by sony, toshiba and some cable companies? and eventually its tech will be avaible from many vendors in some cable box fashion...
Nice start. Now, about that codec being used... Still proprietary, so that I can't archive it to a DVD?
Does the photo/music system in TiVo Desktop integrate with iPhoto/iMusic, or is it something separate requiring multiple copies of files?
What if I want to use a central server in my home for video storage, and have it look like a S2 DVR for sharing between them? Possible or not? Doesn't look like it from the pages you provided.
These are all things I'd need before I'd consider this as a possible real solution.
Nice start. Now, about that codec being used... Still proprietary, so that I can't archive it to a DVD?
Not for the time being due to copyright. TiVo doesn't need lawsuits at the moment. There was software created to extract the mpeg streams but tivo asked the creator to pull it and he did.
Quote:
Does the photo/music system in TiVo Desktop integrate with iPhoto/iMusic, or is it something separate requiring multiple copies of files??
Integrated.
Quote:
What if I want to use a central server in my home for video storage, and have it look like a S2 DVR for sharing between them? Possible or not? Doesn't look like it from the pages you provided.
You can share programs between 2 or more S2 DVRs.
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
And is TiVo still completely unabashed about collecting your viewing habits and mining them for marketing purposes?
As long as they're doing that, I'm not even going to look at their stuff.
Call their toll-free number and opt-out. Or return the enclosed postcard. .
never on a per person. "amorph watched joe millionaire"
etc...
TiVo has never shown themselves to be untrusty
Tivo has always shown themselves to listen to consumers
Tivo has not taken out or even complained about hacks such as the30 sec skip or upgrading harddrives.
people. the perfect company does not exist. but as far as PVR technology goes, its as close as it gets right now. your only other choices are a defunct replay tv. or a POS linux or PC hack that forces you to keep a POS pc or linux box turned on and nearby.
Its a darn digital VCR for crud sakes... (of course tivo owners know its does so much more)
its a tool for 99% CONSUMERS. not the 1% of hackies that want it to do everything under the sun (media server, burn dvds etc.) AND they want it for no monthly fee, no markingting iniformation gathered _AT ALL. AND No limitations (we all see where a box without limitations gets you, that's right bankruptcy court.)
it records shows for you and lets you access them and its content in the friendliest way out there...
it is nor will any other product out there be all things to all people.
I think their are 2 types of PVR people.
Tivo people: just want to retire to their living room after a long day of working at the computer and just want to watch record shows in an easy manner.
Replay TV people: Guys that want to hack their box and do alll sorts of everytihng with it.
Neither group is right or wrong. Its just one product will never be all things to all people.
Tivo changed the way i watch TV. I watch it on my terms now. I would never go back.
--------------------
PS. I am pretty sure the tivo home media edition will let you watch content from one tivo in another room with another tivo BTW
Not for the time being due to copyright. TiVo doesn't need lawsuits at the moment. There was software created to extract the mpeg streams but tivo asked the creator to pull it and he did.
...
You can share programs between 2 or more S2 DVRs.
Well that right there blows it for me then. As long as I'm locked into having to watch the shows *on TiVo equipment only*, then fuggedaboudit. That makes as much sense to me as buying a Sony VCR only to find that you can't watch the shows on anything but a Sony TV, and listen to the audio on anything but Sony stereos with Sony speakers.
Specifically on the second part I asked about sharing between an S2 DVR and a MacOS X machine that *looks* like an S2 DVR, but apparently it's all controlled by the mothership (check out the need for multiple licenses for multiple boxen to allow sharing), so that's a no go.
I'd want to shuttle the shows off to the 258GB of storage I have on the home server, and free up space on the TiVo, but apparently that's not going to happen due to *cough* 'copyright issues'. (Fair use anyone?)
Quote:
Integrated.
Excellent to hear.
Now if the others were taken care of, I might consider one. As it was, if I'd had the cash, I would have purchased a ReplayTV months ago.
I'm not Joe Sixpack. I won't give up fair use for a little convenience that is strictly a luxury item.
> I'm not Joe Sixpack. I won't give up fair use for a little convenience that is strictly a luxury item.
then dump it to your VCR...
I believe you can do that.
fair use; problem solved.
off topic; to those that want to archive stuff to dvd. have you even considered what the quality of it would be? take a look at any first run show nowadays:
humungous and garish animated banner ads taking up 20% of the screen
end credits squished to the right half of the screen while some reporter gives you the "news"
commericals
to much junk layered on top of content to make it archivable IMO...
maybe for a sports game. but for most everything else I buy the dvds...
of course someone will now say "but my show is not on dvd"
Comments
<strong>I vote for TiVo... it has the best chance of survival and it has a great UI and remote.
PS - some people are way too loyal to products they use... it's just a DVR... calm down.</strong><hr></blockquote>
posted in a mac-themed discussion group called "appleinsider"
<strong>I vote for TiVo... it has the best chance of survival and it has a great UI and remote.
PS - some people are way too loyal to products they use... it's just a DVR... calm down.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't care if it has a command line. UI is nice but Tivo drops the ball on Consumer Orientated features. Most of us are trying to maximize the little freakin' time we have after the typical workday and commute. Therefore DVR's primary benefit isn't UI(Hell VCR Plus had a horrible UI but it worked) but rather can it revolutionize our viewing habits. ReplayTV wins when looked at from that perspective IMO.
Also, earlier you mentioned that "eventually their (there) will be computer based PVR's without the monthly or lifetime service and consumers will migrate quickly to those." I disagree. Consumers will never come to grips with using a PVR on their computers. Instead, it is the cable companies that will offer TiVo/Replay functionality without the monthly service fees. Time Warner is already previewing their PVR cable box in many markets. It has an 80GB hard drive and a nifty interface that is already familiar to millions of cable subscribers. Plus, no monthly fees...
In my opinion, it is the cable companies that will eventually win out in the PVR marketplace. However, rumor has it that a couple of key cable ops may license the TiVo software for their own cable PVR boxes. Sony has already licensed the TiVo technology for two other products. Toshiba is producing a TiVo/DVD combo for Xmas. The TiVo machines may not survive, but the technology certainly will.
---------------
RosettaStoned
<strong>30-Second Skip on TiVo
Grab your TiVo remote.
Bring up any recorded program. (You have to be watching a recorded program rather than "Live TV" in order to enable the feature.)
On your TiVo remote, key in the following sequence:
SELECT PLAY SELECT 30 SELECT
[snip]
RosettaStoned</strong><hr></blockquote>
OMG, this is the freakin coolest thing ever. Much better than when I added Ethernet to my 130 hour series 1 Sony unit.
I ordered one of the new internet enabled ones and am looking forward to being able to watch my shows on my powerbook through airport while sitting at the breakfast table (or at work).
Also, it would be nice if ReplayTV had the Rendezvous features as well. If TiVo really isn't as good as RTV, then it seems to have the upper hand on this front at the very least.
Since ZeroConf (Rendezvous) is an open standard, and since Apple even released a pretty full ZC/R implementation via open source, I can't imagine RTV *not* getting this at some point fairly soon. They've been on the leading edge of cool stuff for PVRs, this is just one thing I see them being second on for once.
According to /., Sonicblue just filed for bankruptcy and sold all their assets to Japan's D&M: Denon & Marantz. *THAT* could be interesting. Hopefully the technology will live on.
I'm so glad I bought a TiVO.
best PVR in the world IMO!!
Technologically, TiVo's been playing catchup to ReplayTV since the beginning... they grabbed the mindshare however to the point that to most people PVR == TiVo, period. Kinda like how PC == Windows to 95% of the population.
No need to further drive that point home though... ah well.
Here's to a Marantz PVR with pro level IO ports!
Honestly, I don't understand the herd mentality with these units. It's not like Beta vs. VHS, it doesn't matter if everyone else uses Tivo unless I suppose network video sharing catches on big time and Tivo locks up the format.
Worst case scenario, the new company kills ReplayTV and it's online guide and in seconds a hack is available to use any of the free online guides already available on the internet (some people have already done this). I highly doubt this will happen, however.
Here you go, TiVo control panel for OS X. Just use it with your Series 2 TiVo unit and the Home Media Option.
Works flawlessly including rendezvous.
http://www.tivo.com/4.9.4.1.asp
Does the photo/music system in TiVo Desktop integrate with iPhoto/iMusic, or is it something separate requiring multiple copies of files?
What if I want to use a central server in my home for video storage, and have it look like a S2 DVR for sharing between them? Possible or not? Doesn't look like it from the pages you provided.
These are all things I'd need before I'd consider this as a possible real solution.
As long as they're doing that, I'm not even going to look at their stuff.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Nice start. Now, about that codec being used... Still proprietary, so that I can't archive it to a DVD?
Not for the time being due to copyright. TiVo doesn't need lawsuits at the moment. There was software created to extract the mpeg streams but tivo asked the creator to pull it and he did.
Does the photo/music system in TiVo Desktop integrate with iPhoto/iMusic, or is it something separate requiring multiple copies of files??
Integrated.
What if I want to use a central server in my home for video storage, and have it look like a S2 DVR for sharing between them? Possible or not? Doesn't look like it from the pages you provided.
You can share programs between 2 or more S2 DVRs.
Originally posted by Amorph
And is TiVo still completely unabashed about collecting your viewing habits and mining them for marketing purposes?
As long as they're doing that, I'm not even going to look at their stuff.
Call their toll-free number and opt-out. Or return the enclosed postcard. .
people in california watched X
average number of shows watched X
never on a per person. "amorph watched joe millionaire"
etc...
TiVo has never shown themselves to be untrusty
Tivo has always shown themselves to listen to consumers
Tivo has not taken out or even complained about hacks such as the30 sec skip or upgrading harddrives.
people. the perfect company does not exist. but as far as PVR technology goes, its as close as it gets right now. your only other choices are a defunct replay tv. or a POS linux or PC hack that forces you to keep a POS pc or linux box turned on and nearby.
Its a darn digital VCR for crud sakes... (of course tivo owners know its does so much more)
its a tool for 99% CONSUMERS. not the 1% of hackies that want it to do everything under the sun (media server, burn dvds etc.) AND they want it for no monthly fee, no markingting iniformation gathered _AT ALL. AND No limitations (we all see where a box without limitations gets you, that's right bankruptcy court.)
it records shows for you and lets you access them and its content in the friendliest way out there...
it is nor will any other product out there be all things to all people.
I think their are 2 types of PVR people.
Tivo people: just want to retire to their living room after a long day of working at the computer and just want to watch record shows in an easy manner.
Replay TV people: Guys that want to hack their box and do alll sorts of everytihng with it.
Neither group is right or wrong. Its just one product will never be all things to all people.
Tivo changed the way i watch TV. I watch it on my terms now. I would never go back.
--------------------
PS. I am pretty sure the tivo home media edition will let you watch content from one tivo in another room with another tivo BTW
Originally posted by David R
Not for the time being due to copyright. TiVo doesn't need lawsuits at the moment. There was software created to extract the mpeg streams but tivo asked the creator to pull it and he did.
...
You can share programs between 2 or more S2 DVRs.
Well that right there blows it for me then.
Specifically on the second part I asked about sharing between an S2 DVR and a MacOS X machine that *looks* like an S2 DVR, but apparently it's all controlled by the mothership (check out the need for multiple licenses for multiple boxen to allow sharing), so that's a no go.
I'd want to shuttle the shows off to the 258GB of storage I have on the home server, and free up space on the TiVo, but apparently that's not going to happen due to *cough* 'copyright issues'. (Fair use anyone?)
Integrated.
Excellent to hear.
Now if the others were taken care of, I might consider one. As it was, if I'd had the cash, I would have purchased a ReplayTV months ago.
I'm not Joe Sixpack. I won't give up fair use for a little convenience that is strictly a luxury item.
then dump it to your VCR...
I believe you can do that.
fair use; problem solved.
off topic; to those that want to archive stuff to dvd. have you even considered what the quality of it would be? take a look at any first run show nowadays:
humungous and garish animated banner ads taking up 20% of the screen
end credits squished to the right half of the screen while some reporter gives you the "news"
commericals
to much junk layered on top of content to make it archivable IMO...
maybe for a sports game. but for most everything else I buy the dvds...
of course someone will now say "but my show is not on dvd"
fine...