Apple rumored to invest $3.6B in Kia to produce 100,000 'Apple Cars' per year

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  • Reply 61 of 73
    MplsPmplsp Posts: 4,151member


    fred1 said:
    I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
    Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
    A car is not an iPhone -- you do know that, right?
    Do you know what an analogy is?

    You know that analogies only work when you use an analogous comparator, right?
    MplsP said:
    fred1 said:
    I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
    Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
    Except Foxconn doesn’t have a Name building anything else, and Apple is responsible for the entire design and engineering process for their other products. 

    Kia is a car company and has an image and reputation as such. Any car that Apple should coproduce with an existing company will be tied to that company’s reputation, good or bad. 
    Whether Foxconn is a known brand or not is irrelevant. The point is they make a wide variety of products for various companies on a wide scale of quality and fit and finish. You know, to their company's specifications. If you think Kia is somehow not going to meet Apple's expectations, you better let them know before they figure it out the hard way! Because, you know, Apple's really bad at partnering with manufacturers as we've seen. ߘ榬t;/div>
    Building a car is different than an iPhone. Apple designed the entire iPhone and could specify the build parameters. Part of the hypothesized reason for partnering with Kia is to get Kia's expertise in manufacturing.

    Regardless, you moved the goalposts.  The question wasn't about Kia's build quality (Hyundai/Kia make fine cars.) It was about the public's perception of kia and how that would affect the perception of an Apple car. To that, my and Fred1's points still stand.
    edited February 2021
    watto_cobraanantksundaram
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  • Reply 62 of 73
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,487member
    MplsP said:


    fred1 said:
    I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
    Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
    A car is not an iPhone -- you do know that, right?
    Do you know what an analogy is?

    You know that analogies only work when you use an analogous comparator, right?
    MplsP said:
    fred1 said:
    I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
    Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
    Except Foxconn doesn’t have a Name building anything else, and Apple is responsible for the entire design and engineering process for their other products. 

    Kia is a car company and has an image and reputation as such. Any car that Apple should coproduce with an existing company will be tied to that company’s reputation, good or bad. 
    Whether Foxconn is a known brand or not is irrelevant. The point is they make a wide variety of products for various companies on a wide scale of quality and fit and finish. You know, to their company's specifications. If you think Kia is somehow not going to meet Apple's expectations, you better let them know before they figure it out the hard way! Because, you know, Apple's really bad at partnering with manufacturers as we've seen. ߘ榬t;/div>
    Building a car is different than an iPhone. Apple designed the entire iPhone and could specify the build parameters. Part of the hypothesized reason for partnering with Kia is to get Kia's expertise in manufacturing.

    Regardless, you moved the goalposts.  The question wasn't about Kia's build quality (Hyundai/Kia make fine cars.) It was about the public's perception of kia and how that would affect the perception of an Apple car. To that, my and Fred1's points still stand.
    I fail to see any reason the general public would give a shit who manufactured a component of or assembled the vehicle, just as with any of their other products made up of others vendors components and manufactured by a third party. That's your analogous comparator, whether a the end products are similar is inconsequential. Nobody will care. 
    watto_cobratmayroundaboutnow
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  • Reply 63 of 73
    byronlbyronl Posts: 385member
    fred1 said:
    I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
    Most people won't even know it's manufactured by Kia
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  • Reply 64 of 73

    fred1 said:
    I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
    Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
    A car is not an iPhone -- you do know that, right?
    Do you know what an analogy is?
    I know what it's not. An analogy is not an excuse for stupidity. 
    MplsP
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 65 of 73
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,060member
    fred1 said:
    I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
    That's a pretty outdated perception, no disrespect intended.  They are branching into much higher levels, particularly with the Telluride and K5.  They did have their K900 and Cadenza, but those are dead this year due to the market wanting more SUVs.  I myself have a 2019 optima.  It's not a luxury car, but it's not "low end" either.  Kia is now doing what their parent company Hyundai did....becoming a mainstream alternative to Toyota and Honda.   I had three Hyundais over the last 10 years, and I'd put them up against anything from either of those brands.  They also offer more luxury-oriented lines.  
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  • Reply 66 of 73
    MplsPmplsp Posts: 4,151member
    MplsP said:


    fred1 said:
    I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
    Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
    A car is not an iPhone -- you do know that, right?
    Do you know what an analogy is?

    You know that analogies only work when you use an analogous comparator, right?
    MplsP said:
    fred1 said:
    I wonder how much the Kia name will affect the whole image of the Apple car. Kia may be a fine producer of cars, I don’t know, but I believe it”s seen as producing inexpensive cars for the lower sector of the market. Even if Apple has full control of every aspect of the design and manufacture, will people be able to disassociate it from the Kia brand?
    Apple doesn't build any of their products, they use manufacturing partners that also build products for many other companies — you know that right?
    Except Foxconn doesn’t have a Name building anything else, and Apple is responsible for the entire design and engineering process for their other products. 

    Kia is a car company and has an image and reputation as such. Any car that Apple should coproduce with an existing company will be tied to that company’s reputation, good or bad. 
    Whether Foxconn is a known brand or not is irrelevant. The point is they make a wide variety of products for various companies on a wide scale of quality and fit and finish. You know, to their company's specifications. If you think Kia is somehow not going to meet Apple's expectations, you better let them know before they figure it out the hard way! Because, you know, Apple's really bad at partnering with manufacturers as we've seen. ߘ榬t;/div>
    Building a car is different than an iPhone. Apple designed the entire iPhone and could specify the build parameters. Part of the hypothesized reason for partnering with Kia is to get Kia's expertise in manufacturing.

    Regardless, you moved the goalposts.  The question wasn't about Kia's build quality (Hyundai/Kia make fine cars.) It was about the public's perception of kia and how that would affect the perception of an Apple car. To that, my and Fred1's points still stand.
    I fail to see any reason the general public would give a shit who manufactured a component of or assembled the vehicle, just as with any of their other products made up of others vendors components and manufactured by a third party. That's your analogous comparator, whether a the end products are similar is inconsequential. Nobody will care. 
    Then you fail to understand the public as well as the importance of the manufacturer and the difference between manufacturing cars and phones. 

    Take Chrysler - they are perennially know for making some of the lowest quality cars. If Apple signed a contract with them, do you think their manufacturing quality would somehow magically improve? There is no way I’d buy an Apple car made by Chrysler. Kia & Hyundai actually make fine cars, but they’re perceived as cheaper economy brands, not the image Apple usually aims for. 

    There are some people that will buy anything with an apple on it. When it comes to buying a car, the vast majority of the public will put a bit more thought into the decision. 
    edited February 2021
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  • Reply 67 of 73
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,060member
    It seems like there is lot of apathetic or negative reaction to this potential news.  I have a different take.  First, Apple has spent years researching and planning this.  Not just the car itself, but how to build it, market it, the user experience, etc.  If true, they didn't select Kia on a whim.  They presumably had multifaceted teams looking at this---people whose job it is to make Apple succeed.  They can be wrong, of course.  But I don't get that impression here.  Now look at Kia.  Kia has become a great carmaker.  I bought my first Kia in 2019, an Optima sedan.  It's a very high quality car....good styling, decent comfort, great mileage, good features and extremely reliable.  But Kia also has had and has some more luxury oriented products, like the Telluride and up until last year, the K900 and Cadenza.  If anyone has doubts about Kia, go drive a K5 (redesigned optima) or a Stinger.  Heck, just sit in them.  Your doubts will be erased.  I'm not a loyalist...I'm just saying they make great cars and can do so at scale.  

    With Apple doing the driver experience, design, battery, software, etc and Kia/Hyundai doing the more traditional mechanical stuff and actual building, it seems like a superb pairing.  Both companies are doing what they excel at.  Plenty could still go wrong, of course.  But I see no reason not to be extremely optimistic.  Imagine...Apple rolls out a sub-$40,000 EV that has true self-driving/human driving capability.  It's styling, comfort, range, features and reliability are top notch.  They can make them at scale.  You can finance them like any other car.  Honestly?  There would be waiting lists for these things.  
    edited February 2021
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  • Reply 68 of 73
    hentaiboyhentaiboy Posts: 1,253member
    sdw2001 said:
    Imagine...Apple rolls out a sub-$40,000 EV that has true self-driving/human driving capability.
    Don’t hold your breath. Even Volkswagen thinks that self driving cars may never happen...

    https://www.thedrive.com/tech/31816/key-volkswagen-exec-admits-level-5-autonomous-cars-may-never-happen
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  • Reply 69 of 73
    Why is no one talking about Apples investment in Didi....Apples autonomous vehicle could be for ride-sharing https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/12/13254622/apple-didi-chuxing-board-seat
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  • Reply 70 of 73
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,031member
    Not commenting on whether it's true or not but a car seems like a strange segment for Apple to play in. There's no where near the margin in cars as there are in the segments in which Apple moves now.
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  • Reply 71 of 73
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,472member
    fastasleep said:
    Because, you know, Apple's really bad at partnering with manufacturers as we've seen. ߘ榬t;/div>
    Ahem...

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/05/03/sec-presses-charges-against-gt-advanced-ceo-for-fraud-in-iphone-sapphire-supply

    Not establishing a "bad" precedent within a stream of successes, but rather an illustration that not every deal struck by Apple was the most prudent choice. With Kia ranking so low on the automotive popularity list (outside Korea), my guess is that deal was struck based on two things: (1) price and (2) willingness to partner.  No double Apple approached other automakers first but was turned away.  But if the news we've been reading of late has any truth at all to it, then even Kia executives have some doubts about the relationship.  And no wonder, Apple isn't known for its vast knowledge of cars, at least not publicly. 

    I still wonder if they can succeed in Japan with that Kia partnership.  The stubbornness of Japanese automakers likely prevented a tie-up, but such tie-ups are really key for non-Japanese automakers to find success here.  You do find VW and Mercedes and BMW here, but in small numbers.  Those brands sell basically because of the brand and little else.  Toyota still has 40% share of the Japanese auto market.
    edited February 2021
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  • Reply 72 of 73
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    MplsP said:

    Building a car is different than an iPhone. Apple designed the entire iPhone and could specify the build parameters. Part of the hypothesized reason for partnering with Kia is to get Kia's expertise in manufacturing.
    I imagine even with iPhones Apple consults with their manufacturing partners.  They don't just dump schematics on Foxconn and tell them to build it or walk.
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  • Reply 73 of 73
    I live in San Jose and for the past few years have driven by an unmarked, but occupied building off Charcot Ave and Orchard Pkwy right at the hwy 87 onramp. I have a sneaky feeling Apple is using it for their car development. There are always Apple's signature white Toyota Prius security cars in the parking lot. Reports show Apple leased the property back in 2015. There's definitely been something going on there but it seems to be very hush hush since there isn't even an Apple logo on the building and all the windows are covered.

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