Nissan says it is 'not in talks' to build 'Apple Car'

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in General Discussion
Car manufacturer Nissan has denied reports that it is to make the "Apple Car," and states that it is not in talks with Apple.

Nissan IMx


Following recent reports that Nissan would replace Hyundai as manufacturer of the forthcoming "Apple Car," the company has now said it is not in discussions with Apple.

"We are not in talks with Apple," a Nissan spokesperson told Reuters. "However, Nissan is always open to exploring collaborations and partnerships to accelerate industry transformation."

According to Reuters, Nissan declined to comment on reports that there had been brief initial talks with Apple. Those talks are said to have been preliminary, and not involving senior management.

As with Hyundai, it's claimed that any talks between Apple and Nissan floundered over the issue of the car manufacturer being reduced to an assembly partner working solely to Apple's designs.

Nissan has previously welcomed rumors of Apple developing a car. In 2015, the then CEO of the Renault-Nissan Alliance, Carlos Ghosn, said that it would be good for the industry.

"If Apple does it, obviously it's good news for us," Ghosn said. "The fact that a company outside of the auto industry wants to do electric cars is refreshing."
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 28
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 
  • Reply 2 of 28
    well this car seems pretty decent but who knows what will be its design . it is confirmed that it is an electric car so definitely it will be eco friendly .
    i work in designing company https://www.inventactions.com/ so i know how things are made up of and how they are going to make shapes.

  • Reply 3 of 28
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 

    Not agree. I am sure, that not all of the OEMs will be able to make a successfully transition from classical engine cars to electrical cars, because of many reasons: not enough money for new investments , not enough research and development capabilities, not enough engineering capacity with knowledge in an all new type of vehicle.
    So I think all of those OEMs will be very happy, to be able to work together with Apple, because otherwise they will become  the Black Berry’s and the Nokia’s of the car industry.
    h2pbshank
  • Reply 4 of 28
    qwerty52 said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 

    Not agree. I am sure, that not all of the OEMs will be able to make a successfully transition from classical engine cars to electrical cars, because of many reasons: not enough money for new investments , not enough research and development capabilities, not enough engineering capacity with knowledge in an all new type of vehicle.
    So I think all of those OEMs will be very happy, to be able to work together with Apple, because otherwise they will become  the Black Berry’s and the Nokia’s of the car industry.
    Actually, they would not work "with" Apple, but "for" Apple. 
    Even OEMs need to be realistic in terms of their own capability and ability for the transformation, but Apple needs to have something in their hand in few months if Apple would like to launch their first Apple Car in 2024 or 2025. 

    Be aware that Apple must hurry up and speed up. Otherwise, it would be too late for Apple if Apple cannot make their car projects in 2025. 

    bshankGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 5 of 28
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,055member
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 
    Yes.   It’s stupid to become a manufacturer for Apple. 

    And who would want to buy an Apple Leaf for $100,000?

    If Apple is Serious they need to Manufacture their own Batteries and cars.   Tim Cook should have moved to do this years ago.   Now instead  of Apple buying Tesla, Apple is playing catch up.   Probably will take them 3 years to do what Tesla does in 1 year, but they have to make a big investment - at least $10 Biilion per year for several years.
  • Reply 6 of 28
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,055member

    qwerty52 said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 

    Not agree. I am sure, that not all of the OEMs will be able to make a successfully transition from classical engine cars to electrical cars, because of many reasons: not enough money for new investments , not enough research and development capabilities, not enough engineering capacity with knowledge in an all new type of vehicle.
    So I think all of those OEMs will be very happy, to be able to work together with Apple, because otherwise they will become  the Black Berry’s and the Nokia’s of the car industry.
    Actually, they would not work "with" Apple, but "for" Apple. 
    Even OEMs need to be realistic in terms of their own capability and ability for the transformation, but Apple needs to have something in their hand in few months if Apple would like to launch their first Apple Car in 2024 or 2025. 

    Be aware that Apple must hurry up and speed up. Otherwise, it would be too late for Apple if Apple cannot make their car projects in 2025. 

    The real problem is the limited Battery Supply.   OEMs would be stupid to use their Battery supply for Apple Cars.   

    The development of EVs mean that Apple needs to implement a business model that is 180 degrees different than what Apple uses for the IPhone. I.e. fully control of manufacturing and as much integration as possible including Batteries.   Apple better hurry up and start Copying.
  • Reply 7 of 28
    YP101YP101 Posts: 133member
    Nissan is end of life line. Soon or later Honda will take over or just end of brand.
    Nissan does not have much choice here.
  • Reply 8 of 28
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,027member
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 

    Spoken by someone who has no clue.  

    13485Rayz2016lolliverqwerty52
  • Reply 9 of 28
    flydog said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 

    Spoken by someone who has no clue.  

    Would you elaborate and sum up your clue?

    I find it funny if someone says "xx has no clue", but never speaks out his clue..
  • Reply 10 of 28
    M68000M68000 Posts: 378member
    What if Apple is being “played” by these talks with manufacturers?   It has been said that business is war.   Could it be that these car makers are friendly and cordial with Apple but at the executive level they secretly have no intention of doing anything with Apple?  They just want to find out what they can find out about what ideas Apple may have?  It would not surprise me.

    Can you also imagine the amount of legal documents the lawyers would have to come up with and go over and agree on... wow
    edited February 15
  • Reply 11 of 28
    This column left out critical information that was reported by The Verge.

    That report said that “the contact was brief and the discussions did not advance to senior management levels following divisions over branding for the iPhone maker’s electric vehicles.” The breaking point was said to be Apple’s request that Nissan manufacture cars carrying Apple’s branding.

    “We have our own customer satisfaction, which comes by car. No way we are going to change the way we make cars,” Nissan COO Ashwani Gupta tells the Financial Times, again stating that talks aren’t happening now without confirming if they ever did. “The way we design, the way we develop, and the way we manufacture is going to be as an automotive manufacturer, as Nissan.”

    Which is what I have been saying the entire time. You can have a Foxconn arrangement when margins are high and volumes are low. You can have a Foxconn deal when margins are low but volumes are high (the electronics industry). But Apple wants their "partner" to accept low margins on low volumes without sharing marketing, branding or IP with the partners to benefit their own company. Which means they get no benefit at all from the partnership: pocket change in return for a whole lot of complex work.

    As for these claims "do not be the Blackberry or Nokia of the automobile industry":

    1. Blackberry and especially Nokia would have been fine had they switched to Android like Samsung did
    2. If these companies aren't going to make much money from manufacturing this car, won't get any marketing/branding benefits and won't get any of the Apple Car IP how will this keep them from being the next Nokia and Blackberry? Will someone please tell me this. Because as they will be prohibited from using Apple's IP their own automobile R&D and manufacturing will be the same as it was before. Which means that whether they partner with Apple or not, their own car brand will be in the same boat. The only difference between partnering with Apple and telling them to buzz off is that they will get a little bit of cash in return for a lot of work. This is why they are telling Apple to go kick rocks and pound sand. What is so hard about this for you people to understand and accept?

    The Foxconn deal only works for Foxconn because Foxconn doesn't make their own laptops and smartphones, Foxconn makes laptops and smartphones for tons of companies instead of just 1 or 2, and because they make hundreds of millions of devices for their partners each year they can turn a tidy volume-based profit off low margins. The same reason why TSMC is able to make so much money fabbing chips for Apple, AMD, Qualcomm and the rest: they don't compete with their customers and they can get a tidy profit off chips that mostly cost $50 or less because they make so many of them. Well sorry but Toyota isn't Foxconn and Nissan isn't TSMC.

    The list of companies whose fortunes became MUCH WORSE after partnering with Apple is MUCH BIGGER than the list of companies who were better off. These car companies know this and they have no intention of joining the second list, which is far more likely to happen. 
    edited February 15 muthuk_vanalingamFoodLoverelijahg
  • Reply 12 of 28
    M68000 said:
    What if Apple is being “played” by these talks with manufacturers?   It has been said that business is war.   Could it be that these car makers are friendly and cordial with Apple but at the executive level they secretly have no intention of doing anything with Apple?  They just want to find out what they can find out about what ideas Apple may have?  It would not surprise me.

    Can you also imagine the amount of legal documents the lawyers would have to come up with and go over and agree on... wow
    No. Apple is playing themselves by refusing to come up with mutually beneficial terms for these carmakers. They should have known this going in or been willing to adapt after the initial feedback that they were getting. It isn't that hard: companies aren't going to make cars for Apple on terms that will do a better job of diverting energy and ultimately sales from their own cars than they will earning money for or providing any other benefit from the car company.
    elijahgstompy
  • Reply 13 of 28
    k2kw said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 
    Yes.   It’s stupid to become a manufacturer for Apple. 

    And who would want to buy an Apple Leaf for $100,000?

    If Apple is Serious they need to Manufacture their own Batteries and cars.   Tim Cook should have moved to do this years ago.   Now instead  of Apple buying Tesla, Apple is playing catch up.   Probably will take them 3 years to do what Tesla does in 1 year, but they have to make a big investment - at least $10 Biilion per year for several years.
    How is this different than other products? Does Apple need to manufacture batteries for iPhones, iPads, and Macs? Why or why not? Apple also doesn't make cameras or lenses.
    qwerty52MplsPlolliver
  • Reply 14 of 28
    Ever since Nissan was bought by Renault it’s been a junk product. Worst CVT’s in the industry. 
  • Reply 15 of 28
    What about this outcome: Apple becomes an auto manufacturer simply by purchasing an existing auto assembly plant in the US. They go into business partnership with an existing auto manufacturer on a single platform, similar to hell BMW and Toyota partnered on the Z4/Supra platform. This is a common business relationship between all the manufacturers, has president, and would require only minimal IP collaboration. 
  • Reply 16 of 28
    k2kw said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 
    Yes.   It’s stupid to become a manufacturer for Apple. 

    And who would want to buy an Apple Leaf for $100,000?

    If Apple is Serious they need to Manufacture their own Batteries and cars.   Tim Cook should have moved to do this years ago.   Now instead  of Apple buying Tesla, Apple is playing catch up.   Probably will take them 3 years to do what Tesla does in 1 year, but they have to make a big investment - at least $10 Biilion per year for several years.
    How is this different than other products? Does Apple need to manufacture batteries for iPhones, iPads, and Macs? Why or why not? Apple also doesn't make cameras or lenses.
    Making a car is completely different from making a single component like camera or lenses. 
    At the end, the final product must be approved, but the entire production process is very complicated. It cannot be compared to the manufacture of iPhones or other Apple products. 

    I do not know how to describe the production process of cars or how to clarify the difference between cars and other "small" products, but believe me. Car-making is a completely different animal.
    FoodLover
  • Reply 17 of 28
    M68000M68000 Posts: 378member
    Ever since Nissan was bought by Renault it’s been a junk product. Worst CVT’s in the industry. 
    I would never buy a vehicle with CVT transmission,  no matter who makes it
  • Reply 18 of 28
    M68000 said:
    Ever since Nissan was bought by Renault it’s been a junk product. Worst CVT’s in the industry. 
    I would never buy a vehicle with CVT transmission,  no matter who makes it

    But why not? It's super comfortable. No gear shifts, very smooth ride and the motor always operates in its most efficient rotational speed. When I tried it out it was a difference like day and night. I was pleasantly surprised, as a German. Why there are not more cars like these? I don't understand.
    edited February 15 lolliver
  • Reply 19 of 28
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,581member
    Apple says it is 'not in talks' to build 'Apple Car' with Nissan!

    edited February 15
  • Reply 20 of 28
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    k2kw said:
    That´s what I said and mean. 

    OEMs do not want to be the next Foxconn.

    Apple needs to be realistic in degree of control. 

    I much prefer a "Apple Car" with their M1-like chips and their battery technologies to generate as high margins as possible.
    But that´s what OEMs do not want exactly. 

    I hope Apple realizes that Apple will not find any OEMs for their request. 
    Yes.   It’s stupid to become a manufacturer for Apple. 

    And who would want to buy an Apple Leaf for $100,000?

    If Apple is Serious they need to Manufacture their own Batteries and cars.   Tim Cook should have moved to do this years ago.   Now instead  of Apple buying Tesla, Apple is playing catch up.   Probably will take them 3 years to do what Tesla does in 1 year, but they have to make a big investment - at least $10 Biilion per year for several years.
    How is this different than other products? Does Apple need to manufacture batteries for iPhones, iPads, and Macs? Why or why not? Apple also doesn't make cameras or lenses.
    Looking at @cloudguy’s comment, the difference is that Apple’s manufacturing partners (Foxconn) don’t have a branded product or have a neat sideline in non-branded components. 

    Neither side will want their brand diluted. 


    muthuk_vanalingam
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