Comments

• Reply 1 of 13

  Wgkrueger Posts: 352member

  March 13, 2021 9:21PM

  A couple of years ago I read an article about an experiment to see if they could be totally Google free in their internet use. This person had to go to a ludicrous amount of net filtering to remove all connections to Google.com when they hit the web. Apparently Google has their fingers in almost every corner of the internet. It would be interesting to see if this is or will be part of the lawsuit.

  
• Reply 2 of 13

  viclauyyc Posts: 849member

  March 13, 2021 9:23PM

  Even for google, 5bn is a pretty big ouch. I hope California win all the way to the Supreme Court. 

  
• Reply 3 of 13

  lkrupp Posts: 10,557member

  March 13, 2021 9:30PM

  When will people finally be educated  and willing to admit that Google, Facebook, Twitter, and the rest make money only one way, collecting/tracking customer data and selling it to advertisers? They have no other significant sources of revenue. If they can’t track people they can’t exist, period. How hard is that to understand? 
  
  Money shot...
  
  "Furthermore, Google also claimed that there is no expectation of privacy for anyone attempting to use any private browsing modes.”
  
  Is that ‘Newspeak’ or what?

  edited March 2021
• Reply 4 of 13

  ppietra Posts: 288member

  March 13, 2021 10:39PM

  lkrupp said:

  When will people finally be educated  and willing to admit that Google, Facebook, Twitter, and the rest make money only one way, collecting/tracking customer data and selling it to advertisers? They have no other significant sources of revenue. If they can’t track people they can’t exist, period. How hard is that to understand? 
  
  Money shot...
  
  "Furthermore, Google also claimed that there is no expectation of privacy for anyone attempting to use any private browsing modes.”
  
  Is that ‘Newspeak’ or what?

  companies can still make money from advertising without tracking. They track in order to make even more money and because it gives them an advantage over other competitors in the ad business.
  One big problem is that somehow people started thinking that there is no alternative to tracking... that advertising can only be done with tracking... that many companies will be out of business without tracking and because of this they are entitled to do it.

  edited March 2021
• Reply 5 of 13

  MplsP Posts: 3,929member

  March 14, 2021 1:26AM

  "Google also claimed that there is no expectation of privacy for anyone attempting to use any private browsing modes" Huh? only a lawyer could say that with a straight face.
  
  I suppose when they lose they're going to argue that the court should have no expectation of payment when it issues fines.

  
• Reply 6 of 13

  chasm Posts: 3,303member

  March 14, 2021 1:28AM

  Dear Google:

  
  Judge Koh has kindly informed you that you are going to lose at trial when this gets there. I suggest you at least amend "private browsing mode" to actually be private. There's nobody on this planet that isn't in your employ who thinks that you're not misleading users with that title. Ditto "incognito."

  
• Reply 7 of 13

  ihatescreennames Posts: 1,904member

  March 14, 2021 2:45AM

  AppleInsider said:

  
  Furthermore, Google also claimed that there is no expectation of privacy for anyone attempting to use any private browsing modes. 

  This has always been the case. Around the time Private Browsing Mode was introduced in Safari I remember reading somewhere that it didn’t hide your activity from websites or tracking, it only hid your activity on your computer. The example provided was something along the lines of, “if you are shopping for your spouse you can use PBM so they won’t accidentally see your what web pages you visited in your history”. Also, no history of the porn sites you visited.
  
  I’m pretty sure even Apple doesn’t say that PBM hides all your activity on the web from everyone. How would that even be possible?
  
  Edit: I searched apple.com for “private browsing mode” and found this:
  
  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210337
  
  “ Turn Private Browsing on or off on your iPad
  
  

  When you use Private Browsing, you can visit websites without creating a search history in Safari.

  
  

  Private Browsing protects your private information and blocks some websites from tracking your search behavior. Safari won't remember the pages you visit, your search history, or your AutoFill information.”
  
  The only expectation of privacy is privacy from someone else using Safari (for example), under the same login, on the same computer. That’s it. I’m am no fan of Google, the only Google product I use is YouTube and that’s only occasionally, but I don’t think they’re particularly out of line with that particular quote.

  
  

  edited March 2021
• Reply 8 of 13

  GeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member

  March 14, 2021 1:32PM

  AppleInsider said:

  
  ....
  "Google also makes it clear that Incognito 'does not mean invisible,' and that the user's activity during that session may be visible to websites they visit, and any third-party analytics or ad services the visited websites used," the search giant argued.
  
  ...

  THIS is why they tell us to close our browser after visiting, say, a financial website (or any site where we do not want it to become public knowledge that we visited.

  
  

  It is why I maintain a computer used exclusively for my financial matters (It's only used to visit secure financial sites -- nothing else).
  

  It is also why I only use private browsing on it

  It is also why I close its browser after each site I visit

  It is also why I clean it of junk files & any possible historical/tracking data after each use.

  
  

  Yeh, I know Google and the rest have already found a way to track me.   But I'll continue to do my best to minimize it -- at least for critical stuff like my finances.
  

  
  
  
  
• Reply 9 of 13

  gatorguy Posts: 24,213member

  March 14, 2021 1:33PM

  chasm said:

  Dear Google:

  
  Judge Koh has kindly informed you that you are going to lose at trial when this gets there. I suggest you at least amend "private browsing mode" to actually be private. There's nobody on this planet that isn't in your employ who thinks that you're not misleading users with that title. Ditto "incognito."

   This is another example of you not actually understanding what you comment on before posting. "Incognito" is what Google calls their version of Safari's "Private Browsing Mode".  It IS their private browsing referred to in this article. Your "ditto" makes no sense. Both company's browser modes perform the same service for a user, search history and website visits not being saved on your own devices, even if Apple and Google call it by a different name.
  
  So for instance when you turn on Google's Incognito window or Apple's Private Browsing and visit a couple of porn sites, or search that special birthday present for a family member, the record of you doing so is not saved.  Your browser doesn't "remember" and your family won't know about it. That does not mean the 3rd party websites you visited could not have collected some personally identifiable data during your session. So to be perfectly accurate it was not "private" in the strictest sense which is probably why the lawsuit is allowed to continue (despite the full-page notice when you start it, see below)
  
  If Google is being deceptive with Incognito, aka Private Browsing, Apple is being equally so aren't they? This is the full-screen disclaimer when you invoke Incognito Mode in Chrome. Would you mind posting the disclaimer when you turn on Private Browsing in Safari so we can compare the two?
  

  You've gone incognito

  Now you can browse privately, and other people who use this device won't see your activity. However, downloads and bookmarks will be saved. Learn more

  Chrome won't save the following information:

  • Your browsing history
  • Cookies and site data
  • Information entered in forms

  Your activity might still be visible to:

  • Websites you visit
  • Your employer or school
  • Your internet service provider

  Block third-party cookies -(Toggle switch. Mine is "On")
  When on, sites can't use cookies that track you across the web. Features on some sites may break.

   

  edited March 2021
• Reply 10 of 13

  CloudTalkin Posts: 916member

  March 14, 2021 5:31PM

  MplsP said:

  "Google also claimed that there is no expectation of privacy for anyone attempting to use any private browsing modes" Huh? only a lawyer could say that with a straight face.
  
  I suppose when they lose they're going to argue that the court should have no expectation of payment when it issues fines.

  Google is unlikely to lose imo.  Incognito Mode is very descript in what it is and how it functions..  Here's the splash page.  
  
  

  chasm said:

  Dear Google:

  
  Judge Koh has kindly informed you that you are going to lose at trial when this gets there. I suggest you at least amend "private browsing mode" to actually be private. There's nobody on this planet that isn't in your employ who thinks that you're not misleading users with that title. Ditto "incognito."

  
  Private Browsing is Apple's nomenclature, not Google's.  Private Browsing also functions just like Incognito Mode.
• Reply 11 of 13

  CloudTalkin Posts: 916member

  March 14, 2021 7:39PM

  Wgkrueger said:

  A couple of years ago I read an article about an experiment to see if they could be totally Google free in their internet use. This person had to go to a ludicrous amount of net filtering to remove all connections to Google.com when they hit the web. Apparently Google has their fingers in almost every corner of the internet. It would be interesting to see if this is or will be part of the lawsuit.

  You're referencing the series of articles by Gizmodo.  The author sequentially cut the Big 5 tech companies (Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google and Microsoft) from her life and detailed each experience.  Finally she cut all 5 simultaneously.  Details here: https://gizmodo.com/c/goodbye-big-five ;
  
  None of that is related to this issue.  The issue here is a claim that users are unaware that they are secretly tracked while using Incognito Mode on Chrome.  Personally don't think this case has any legs because 1) Incognito Mode functions just like Private Browsing on Safari, InPrivate on Edge or Private Mode on Firefox.  2) There's a huge informational splash page that tells the user how the mode functions.
  
  Incognito Mode, Private Browsing, InPrivate, and Private Mode (along with others) exist primarily to obscure the browsing history of one individual from any others who may use the same devise.  Some examples:  Shared work/school computer or library computer.  Family desktop when shopping for Xmas, birthdays, anniversaries, etc.  In all those examples the info can be tracked by one or more of the following: ISP, school/employer, visited website.
• Reply 12 of 13

  MacPro Posts: 19,727member

  March 15, 2021 2:11PM

  gatorguy said:

  chasm said:

  Dear Google:

  
  Judge Koh has kindly informed you that you are going to lose at trial when this gets there. I suggest you at least amend "private browsing mode" to actually be private. There's nobody on this planet that isn't in your employ who thinks that you're not misleading users with that title. Ditto "incognito."

   This is another example of you not actually understanding what you comment on before posting. "Incognito" is what Google calls their version of Safari's "Private Browsing Mode".  It IS their private browsing referred to in this article. Your "ditto" makes no sense. Both company's browser modes perform the same service for a user, search history and website visits not being saved on your own devices, even if Apple and Google call it by a different name.
  
  So for instance when you turn on Google's Incognito window or Apple's Private Browsing and visit a couple of porn sites, or search that special birthday present for a family member, the record of you doing so is not saved.  Your browser doesn't "remember" and your family won't know about it. That does not mean the 3rd party websites you visited could not have collected some personally identifiable data during your session. So to be perfectly accurate it was not "private" in the strictest sense which is probably why the lawsuit is allowed to continue (despite the full-page notice when you start it, see below)
  
  If Google is being deceptive with Incognito, aka Private Browsing, Apple is being equally so aren't they? This is the full-screen disclaimer when you invoke Incognito Mode in Chrome. Would you mind posting the disclaimer when you turn on Private Browsing in Safari so we can compare the two?
  

  You've gone incognito

  Now you can browse privately, and other people who use this device won't see your activity. However, downloads and bookmarks will be saved. Learn more

  Chrome won't save the following information:

  • Your browsing history
  • Cookies and site data
  • Information entered in forms

  Your activity might still be visible to:

  • Websites you visit
  • Your employer or school
  • Your internet service provider

  Block third-party cookies -(Toggle switch. Mine is "On")
  When on, sites can't use cookies that track you across the web. Features on some sites may break.

   

  I agree, this is how I understand both to operate.  They are a better than nothing and useful mode.  So, what was the birthday present?  
• Reply 13 of 13

  gatorguy Posts: 24,213member

  March 15, 2021 2:16PM

  MacPro said:

  gatorguy said:

  chasm said:

  Dear Google:

  
  Judge Koh has kindly informed you that you are going to lose at trial when this gets there. I suggest you at least amend "private browsing mode" to actually be private. There's nobody on this planet that isn't in your employ who thinks that you're not misleading users with that title. Ditto "incognito."

   This is another example of you not actually understanding what you comment on before posting. "Incognito" is what Google calls their version of Safari's "Private Browsing Mode".  It IS their private browsing referred to in this article. Your "ditto" makes no sense. Both company's browser modes perform the same service for a user, search history and website visits not being saved on your own devices, even if Apple and Google call it by a different name.
  
  So for instance when you turn on Google's Incognito window or Apple's Private Browsing and visit a couple of porn sites, or search that special birthday present for a family member, the record of you doing so is not saved.  Your browser doesn't "remember" and your family won't know about it. That does not mean the 3rd party websites you visited could not have collected some personally identifiable data during your session. So to be perfectly accurate it was not "private" in the strictest sense which is probably why the lawsuit is allowed to continue (despite the full-page notice when you start it, see below)
  
  If Google is being deceptive with Incognito, aka Private Browsing, Apple is being equally so aren't they? This is the full-screen disclaimer when you invoke Incognito Mode in Chrome. Would you mind posting the disclaimer when you turn on Private Browsing in Safari so we can compare the two?
  

  You've gone incognito

  Now you can browse privately, and other people who use this device won't see your activity. However, downloads and bookmarks will be saved. Learn more

  Chrome won't save the following information:

  • Your browsing history
  • Cookies and site data
  • Information entered in forms

  Your activity might still be visible to:

  • Websites you visit
  • Your employer or school
  • Your internet service provider

  Block third-party cookies -(Toggle switch. Mine is "On")
  When on, sites can't use cookies that track you across the web. Features on some sites may break.

   

  I agree, this is how I understand both to operate.  They are a better than nothing and useful mode.  So, what was the birthday present?  

  You knew about the birthday present? I didn't know I had mentioned it here so perhaps you saw that elsewhere, but it was a pretty expensive lens she knew I wanted. I know we're both photographers so you can of course know why I appreciate the gift so much. She worked two 48 hour weekends for it, making it even more special. Yeah, I'm a very lucky man.