Apple capitulates to Russia laws requiring preinstalled software on iPhone, Mac

2»

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 40
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 989member
    lkrupp said:
    This is probably what we in the U.S.will be facing if/when regulators force Apple to do something similar here. When you turn on your brand new iPhone or iPad you will be presented with a screen in which you must choose your browser, your email client, your music app, your message app, etc. Apple’s own apps will likely be forced down to the bottom of the list so as to be ‘fair’ and not anti-competitive.
    Yup, that’s “equity” for ya. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 40
    qwerty52qwerty52 Posts: 334member
    crowley said:
    qwerty52 said:
    crowley said:
    qwerty52 said:
    Not good! In such a countries, even only refusing to install domestic apps in the set-up process, it’s enough for the government to consider this user as unreliable and suspicious.....because they will know it. 
    “Big Brother”......remember?
    Any suggestion that Apple reports back to the Russian government which apps were installed and which were skipped?  That doesn't seem to be part of this story.

    No, no, this is misunderstanding! 

    I am very, very far from the idea that Apple is going to report back to the Russians. 
    My concerns are, that with the  set-up process, the users are forced to make choices.
    The developers of the domestic apps (who are state backed, otherwise they will never appear in the choice list), would be able to know who is using their apps and respectively who don’t, what makes the users vulnerable in countries without democracy.
    How would they know who don't?

    They might not even know who do if Apple's privacy protections do their job.

    Your reasoning is right, but here. Not there.

    Example: You are buying an iPhone there. Through your provider they know immediately that you have an iPhone, but they do not receive any
    data from their domestic apps. 
    So they know, you have chosen on purpose, not to use the domestic apps.  And this is not good for you.  ( there  ;- )   )
    killroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 40
    China will be next. 

    Precedent has been set. 

    And with the current admin, you know the USA will be going down this path as well. 

    You create something great, aquire fane and fortune -  then get it stolen from you, relegating your business to lower tier status and eventual death...

    ...only to come crawling back from the grave. Humbled and beaten, but with a renewed focus and vigor. 

    Through blood sweat and tears, in the middle of constant naysayers, you reach success again. And again. Finally! Things are looking up. Everything is working. 

    You create a way to keep your customers satisfied, happy, safe, and loyal - by building truly great products and services. In the midst of a very shady and scary arena. You’ve not sold your soul. You did it with integrity and carved out a large utopia, largely free of the evils lurking just outside, wanting and waiting to strike at the loyal customers you e worked so hard to earn and satisfy. 

    You did it! 

    Against all odds, you did it. In fact, you are now in a position to acquire your former nemesis - you have truly don’t the impossible. 

    Success. 

    Only... only now, your success is viewed as a bad thing by the governments of the day. “How dare you accomplish such great things thst people want your product over all others. That’s anticompetitive.” “Now we want you to take this carefully crafted, seamless experience thst you’ve created, and junk it all up - so that others - partners and competitors alike - can more easily profit from the products and experiences you’ve broken your back over creating.”

    such is the view of success in today’s political climate. 

    Truly sad day. 


    lkruppwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 40
    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    Russia: “We want you to install our apps”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new iPhone, it has a new sensor”

    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    China: “We want you to data to be stored in China and accessible”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new watch, it detects how much you fart”

    Bunch of hypocrites.
  • Reply 25 of 40
    applguyapplguy Posts: 190member
    lkrupp said:
    This is probably what we in the U.S.will be facing if/when regulators force Apple to do something similar here. When you turn on your brand new iPhone or iPad you will be presented with a screen in which you must choose your browser, your email client, your music app, your message app, etc. Apple’s own apps will likely be forced down to the bottom of the list so as to be ‘fair’ and not anti-competitive.
    Alphabetical would be fair. Apple Music might be first but Safari wouldn’t. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 40
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,296member
    lkrupp said:
    This is probably what we in the U.S.will be facing if/when regulators force Apple to do something similar here. When you turn on your brand new iPhone or iPad you will be presented with a screen in which you must choose your browser, your email client, your music app, your message app, etc. Apple’s own apps will likely be forced down to the bottom of the list so as to be ‘fair’ and not anti-competitive.

    No it is not the same. Read this article carefully again. It states to ALLOW software from Russian sources. It does not force preinstallation. It is exactly what Apple needs to learn that they must allow software from other sources and stores. This is also reason why I left iPhones after 5-6 years of using two at the same time and moved to Android.

    Russia wants to control also where software and data is stored so foreign countries do not control it. Linkedin refused that and so, Russiians in Rusiia cannot use Linkedin (it is blocked).

    There could several reasons for that and not all of them are bad as governement control. It could be also local privacy so, your data do not land in hands of global corporate Big Tech for analysis in China or who knows where or perhaps for censorship, restrictions or profiling people based on their personal biases. In EU GDRP prevents that and it applies also to citizens of EU living outside EU (something thta appies to me livingin the US and Facebook is already aware of that I might be PITA for them and their odd policies).
    These apps are already on the App Store and approved by Apple. Many are already very popular. They providing a list of recommendations which is different from what Russia was demanding initially, that Apps be preinstalled . That dog did not hunt. 
    killroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 40
    China will be next. 

    Precedent has been set. 

    And with the current admin, you know the USA will be going down this path as well. 

    You create something great, aquire fane and fortune -  then get it stolen from you, relegating your business to lower tier status and eventual death...

    ...only to come crawling back from the grave. Humbled and beaten, but with a renewed focus and vigor. 

    Through blood sweat and tears, in the middle of constant naysayers, you reach success again. And again. Finally! Things are looking up. Everything is working. 

    You create a way to keep your customers satisfied, happy, safe, and loyal - by building truly great products and services. In the midst of a very shady and scary arena. You’ve not sold your soul. You did it with integrity and carved out a large utopia, largely free of the evils lurking just outside, wanting and waiting to strike at the loyal customers you e worked so hard to earn and satisfy. 

    You did it! 

    Against all odds, you did it. In fact, you are now in a position to acquire your former nemesis - you have truly don’t the impossible. 

    Success. 

    Only... only now, your success is viewed as a bad thing by the governments of the day. “How dare you accomplish such great things thst people want your product over all others. That’s anticompetitive.” “Now we want you to take this carefully crafted, seamless experience thst you’ve created, and junk it all up - so that others - partners and competitors alike - can more easily profit from the products and experiences you’ve broken your back over creating.”

    such is the view of success in today’s political climate. 

    Truly sad day. 


    This sounds like something out of a pulp novel I read long back... I think it was called "Atlas Shrugged"!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 40
    In Russia, radio listens to you!
    igorsky
  • Reply 29 of 40
    tedz98tedz98 Posts: 75member
    And the trip down the slippery slope of government control over personal computing devices begins. This may not seem terribly bad as it only requires Apple to offer up certain apps. But you can be sure the Russian government will want Apple to report on the people who installed or declined apps. It seems reasonable to fear that over time this will evolve into requirements that certain soft be installed with no option to refuse. Then again it may not be any worse from a privacy perspective than what Google and Facebook are already doing mining and tracking user data.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 40
    hagarhagar Posts: 119member
    China will be next. 

    Precedent has been set. 

    And with the current admin, you know the USA will be going down this path as well. 

    Truly sad day. 



    Trump already in 2018 argued that Amazon, Facebook and Google represent a very antitrust situation. So your remark about the current administration frames your story in a way that is inaccurate. 

    Nobody wants companies to fail, but if they become too big and create monopolies, there’s a real issue that needs to be addressed. That’s economics 101. It’s not like Apple will lose customers over this move: a company needs to follow local regulations. Period. 

    A screen with local app suggestions is not necessarily a bad thing (if there nothing more to it). If it can stimulate local apps, why not. I rather use a local European Facebook, Google or Amazon, instead of the US versions that spy on me and funnel money out the country. 
    edited March 17 Detnator
  • Reply 31 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,300member
    nicholfd said:
    The title, "Apple agrees to Russia laws requiring preinstalled software" doesn't match the content:

    "Under the agreement, iPhones and iPads activated from April 1 onward will present a new screen to users, offering a selection of applications produced by Russian developers. Users will be able to select which apps they will allow or refuse to be installed via this screen as part of the set-up process."

    There is nothing preinstalled, if the body/content is correct.  Just an offer to install apps, which the user can refuse.
    I'm thinking it will be like it is with certain other services, when the phone or computer is first turned on you must make a choice from a "pre-installed" selection of providers. It won't automatically default to Apple's own first-party ones. 
    edited March 17
  • Reply 32 of 40
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 594member
    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    Russia: “We want you to install our apps”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new iPhone, it has a new sensor”

    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    China: “We want you to data to be stored in China and accessible”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new watch, it detects how much you fart”

    Bunch of hypocrites.
    First of all your critique is childish at best. Every company on earth has to operate within the rules of the country it operates in.  

    Second…where the hell did you read that data stored in China is “easily accessible”?  It isn’t. It’s just stored on servers in China. 
    edited March 17 watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,300member
    igorsky said:
    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    Russia: “We want you to install our apps”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new iPhone, it has a new sensor”

    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    China: “We want you to data to be stored in China and accessible”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new watch, it detects how much you fart”

    Bunch of hypocrites.
    ...where the hell did you read that data stored in China is “easily accessible”?  It isn’t. It’s just stored on servers in China. 
    Chinese-owned servers with Apple serving as a support company. Even Apple's iCloud service is no longer theirs to control in China. It's now "Welcome to iCloud operated by GCBD". 

    So what's Apple's involvement?
    "APPLE TECHNOLOGY SERVICES (GUIZHOU) LTD., OR A SUCCESSOR OR ASSIGNEE OF APPLE TECHNOLOGY SERVICES (GUIZHOU) LTD., MAY FROM TIME TO TIME PROVIDE SUPPORT TO GCBD IN ITS PROVISION OF THE SERVICE.

    edited March 17 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 34 of 40
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,082member
    igorsky said:
    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    Russia: “We want you to install our apps”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new iPhone, it has a new sensor”

    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    China: “We want you to data to be stored in China and accessible”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new watch, it detects how much you fart”

    Bunch of hypocrites.
    First of all your critique is childish at best. Every company on earth has to operate within the rules of the country it operates in.  
    It doesn't have to operate in any country though, that's the point.

    Apple: We have values.
    China:  We do not have those values.
    Apple: We have values except when we operate in China.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 35 of 40
    FlytrapFlytrap Posts: 57member
    Apple shoulda told Russia to go eff itself.  I am vehemently opposed to any government putting their will onto technology.
    I don't think that will  go very well for Apple... or any other company that takes the same stance, for that matter. There is a good chance that Apple will end up as a regional technology company operating in only those countries that are too weak to enforce their local laws on multi-national technology companies like Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, and Google.

    Apple has to adhere to US, Chinese, EU, Russian/EAEU, Australian, Japanese, Indian, South Korea, and soon post-Brexit UK local laws and regulations - basically each of the top 10 economies and economic blocks. Other smaller but fast growing economies that are yet to exert their influence on the global technology sphere that Apple, facebook, Google, etc. still go out of their way to appease and play nice with include Brazil, Mexico, Canada, Indonesia, Turkey, and Nigeria. The costs of simply saying "eff you" to all these countries and their idiosyncratic local laws would be catastrophic to any global company, even car manufactures, pharmaceutical companies, etc.

    Google took a moral stance on China and refused to subject itself to Chinese laws... in so doing, Google lost the fastest growing technology market in the world and what will arguably be the largest source of revenue for technology companies in future. You can read all about it in this MIT Technology Review: How Google took on China—and lost. No other technology company CEO who has to answer to shareholders who see China as a major source of growth is going make the same mistake.

    Here are some things that technology companies like Apple do to comply with local government regulations around the world:
    • Apple devices have used GNSS chips that use both the American GPS as well as Russian GLONASS satellites since the iPhone 4S - and we have all benefitted from the increased satellite coverage, including faster satellite acquisition.
    • Apple uses different radio component settings in their devices to support the different frequencies that different governments have allocated for common technologies such as LTE, 5G, etc. To sell their devices in those countries Apple has to submit their devices for approval by their respective standards organisations (FCC equivalent) - which is why we tend to get foreknowledge of new iPhone model numbers through the Eurasian Economic Commission (EEC) in Russia because, approval submissions to the EEC are not confidential.
    • Since iPhone 11, Apple sells a different iPhone design in China that is able to run two nano SIM cards. This is supposedly out of consideration for China's resistance against eSIMs (even though China Telcom recently launched an eSIM support). The rest of the world gets iPhones with only one nano SIM slot, but you can use an eSIM if your country has a carrier that supports the technology.
    • All iPhones sold in the UAE do not have FaceTime in them. Not only do they not have FaceTime on them out of the box, but it is not possible to install FaceTime on them - even after a clean restore (unless you jailbreak it). This is because VoIP applications that have not been issued by your local carrier are illegal in the UAE and all mobile phone OEMs adhere to that regulation.
    • Apple ships every iPhone with a different charger (at least prior to iPhone 12 series) that is designed to work with the electrical outlets of each country in which it is sold. Most countries do not legally allow the use of power adapters, so Apple cannot simply ship the same charger as used in the US with a different adapter for each country... it has to be a different charger that has been tested and certified by the standards authorities in that country. In Brazil, every iPhone 12 ships with a charger in the box because the local laws in that country require it to do so.
    • Games in the Apple App Store are often classified differently in different parts of the world because the content rating systems differ in different countries. Apple submits every game to a local content review board for classification and approval in every country where such content needs to have a local classification and/or approval prior to it appearing in that countries version of the App Store - that is why there are differences in the contents of the app store depending on which country your are in.
    • Apple is going out of its way to set up iPhone factories in India in order to comply with local regulations that impose punitive tariffs on products that do not have sufficient locally manufactured content in their final assembly. The Indian smartphone market is still small for Apple, but Apple is looking ahead to when more of the Indian middle class will be able to afford an iPhone and wants to be already legally compliant with local laws governing the sale of mobile phones in India.
    • There are many other examples where Apple and other technology companies have to adhere to local laws or run the risk of being restricted from openly doing business in that country.

    You also may not realise it but Apple pays taxes in many of the countries that it does business in... they also respond to court orders, have to design their products so that they do not fall foul of local laws on data privacy, have to respect local copyright laws, have their products or services tested and certified locally, and in some countries they even have to keep their servers in a local data centre.

    Just my 2 cents worth.
    edited March 17 igorskymuthuk_vanalingamDetnatorwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 40
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 594member
    crowley said:
    igorsky said:
    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    Russia: “We want you to install our apps”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new iPhone, it has a new sensor”

    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    China: “We want you to data to be stored in China and accessible”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new watch, it detects how much you fart”

    Bunch of hypocrites.
    First of all your critique is childish at best. Every company on earth has to operate within the rules of the country it operates in.  
    It doesn't have to operate in any country though, that's the point.

    Apple: We have values.
    China:  We do not have those values.
    Apple: We have values except when we operate in China.
    Really?  They don't have to operate in the second biggest market in the world?  Thank goodness you're not their CEO.

    Some of you should really make a modest investment in Apple shares so that you can stop thinking so naively.  That' way when someone says something like Apple should get out of China and Russia you can reply "shut up, idiot...let them run their business and increase my ROI".
    edited March 17 watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,300member
    igorsky said:
    crowley said:
    igorsky said:
    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    Russia: “We want you to install our apps”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new iPhone, it has a new sensor”

    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    China: “We want you to data to be stored in China and accessible”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new watch, it detects how much you fart”

    Bunch of hypocrites.
    First of all your critique is childish at best. Every company on earth has to operate within the rules of the country it operates in.  
    It doesn't have to operate in any country though, that's the point.

    Apple: We have values.
    China:  We do not have those values.
    Apple: We have values except when we operate in China.
    Really?  They don't have to operate in the second biggest market in the world?  Thank goodness you're not their CEO.

    Some of you should really make a modest investment in Apple shares so that you can stop thinking so naively.  That' way when someone says something like Apple should get out of China and Russia you can reply "shut up, idiot...let them run their business and increase my ROI".
    If share prices depended on profitability there would be whole lotta penny tech stocks. IMO the entire stock market is predicated on smoke and mirrors, and none of us peons controls either the smoke machines or glass. We are at the mercy of financial powers far beyond us. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 38 of 40
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,082member
    igorsky said:
    crowley said:
    igorsky said:
    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    Russia: “We want you to install our apps”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new iPhone, it has a new sensor”

    Apple to consumers: “We care about your privacy”
    China: “We want you to data to be stored in China and accessible”
    Apple to customers: “hey, look at this new watch, it detects how much you fart”

    Bunch of hypocrites.
    First of all your critique is childish at best. Every company on earth has to operate within the rules of the country it operates in.  
    It doesn't have to operate in any country though, that's the point.

    Apple: We have values.
    China:  We do not have those values.
    Apple: We have values except when we operate in China.
    Really?  They don't have to operate in the second biggest market in the world?  Thank goodness you're not their CEO.

    Some of you should really make a modest investment in Apple shares so that you can stop thinking so naively.  That' way when someone says something like Apple should get out of China and Russia you can reply "shut up, idiot...let them run their business and increase my ROI".
    I didn’t say they shouldn’t, just that they are hypocrites for doing so.  Other companies have had more backbone.

    I have a substantial investment in Apple shares. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 39 of 40
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 704member
    lkrupp said:
    This is probably what we in the U.S.will be facing if/when regulators force Apple to do something similar here. When you turn on your brand new iPhone or iPad you will be presented with a screen in which you must choose your browser, your email client, your music app, your message app, etc. Apple’s own apps will likely be forced down to the bottom of the list so as to be ‘fair’ and not anti-competitive.

    No it is not the same. Read this article carefully again. It states to ALLOW software from Russian sources. It does not force preinstallation. It is exactly what Apple needs to learn that they must allow software from other sources and stores. This is also reason why I left iPhones after 5-6 years of using two at the same time and moved to Android.

    Russia wants to control also where software and data is stored so foreign countries do not control it. Linkedin refused that and so, Russiians in Rusiia cannot use Linkedin (it is blocked).

    There could several reasons for that and not all of them are bad as governement control. It could be also local privacy so, your data do not land in hands of global corporate Big Tech for analysis in China or who knows where or perhaps for censorship, restrictions or profiling people based on their personal biases. In EU GDRP prevents that and it applies also to citizens of EU living outside EU (something thta appies to me livingin the US and Facebook is already aware of that I might be PITA for them and their odd policies).
    Perhaps you should read it more carefully.  The article doesn't claim the source isn't from Apple's App Store.  It says, "but specifically Russian-developed versions of major app categories" - no statement of from outside Apple's App Store.  

    And the article states, "All of the apps will be checked for compliance with Apple's privacy, security, and content standards, Apple added."  That implies the apps will come from Apple's App Store & go thru Apple's review process.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 40
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 704member
    hagar said:
    China will be next. 

    Precedent has been set. 

    And with the current admin, you know the USA will be going down this path as well. 

    Truly sad day. 



    Trump already in 2018 argued that Amazon, Facebook and Google represent a very antitrust situation. So your remark about the current administration frames your story in a way that is inaccurate. 

    Nobody wants companies to fail, but if they become too big and create monopolies, there’s a real issue that needs to be addressed. That’s economics 101. It’s not like Apple will lose customers over this move: a company needs to follow local regulations. Period. 

    A screen with local app suggestions is not necessarily a bad thing (if there nothing more to it). If it can stimulate local apps, why not. I rather use a local European Facebook, Google or Amazon, instead of the US versions that spy on me and funnel money out the country. 
    It's ok - you can remove your tin foil hat.
    watto_cobra
Sign In or Register to comment.