Intel takes aim at Apple, instead shoots itself in the dongle

245

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 88
    Dear Intel, have you seen the back side of a PC lately? It's not a pretty sight.
    killroyradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 88
    I have 6 or 7 Windows laptops, and several MacBook laptops... I just gotta say, it is nothing new that the USB dongle situation is truly out of control for macs.  You need a dongle for everything... dongles dongles dongles... I don't have any dongles connected to any of my Windows PCs... why? Because PCs generally bother to put appropriate ports for things like HDMI, displayport, Ethernet, and USB-A.

    And SO WHAT if you need an nVidia or AMD chip to play games decently on a Windows PC... AT LEAST YOU HAVE THE OPTION to purchase a machine with decent graphics and a decent CPU.  Some of Apple's most expensive machines have traditionally been lacking under the hood.  I've spent a good $6000 of a Windows PC before, sure.... but for that I got a PAIR of the best graphics cards money could buy and a 32-core/64-thread CPU... and hard-tube liquid cooling.  I don't know if anyone has made a 32-core or 64-core ARM chip... but if I'm wrong, educate me.
    Several things, the ASi Macs have really good CPUs and GPUs. Second, yes there are 64 core ARM processors. Talk of 80 core ARM processors. That is from a quick search. 
    radarthekatmainyehcspock1234watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 88
    I hope it wakes the morons at Apple up.
    My 2020 Mac Book pro barely qualifies as pro.
    A "pro computer" that I need a dongle to hook up to an external projector, monitor or ethernet.
    A pro computer that ditched the brilliant mag safe power cable.
    A pro computer than no longer allows me to stick an SD card in it.
    A pro computer that requires a dongle to connect a USB A jump drive- the industry standard way of walking files.

    And- they gouge me on the price of RAM, Storage by 3 to 10x what everyone else charges.
    With no user replaceable parts- and barely serviceable.

    And that was my Intel machine.
    Now- my M1 MacMini- can't connect to my Drobo- which is a 72 TB paperweight.
    Gee - thanks Apple.
    You keep saying that your Drobo is a paperweight on several threads. Drobo says their Dashboard software is compatible with ASi Macs as of November. https://myproducts.drobo.com/retrieve/s3/knowledge/AA/New%20Mac%20M1.html

    Second, you can share your drive from your Intel Mac. 

    Third, if you have unusual hardware, always check to make sure it is compatible. 

    My ThunderBay is compatible. 
    qwerty52williamlondonmainyehcmuthuk_vanalingamhcrefugeeWgkruegerspock1234cgWerkswatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 88
    baconstangbaconstang Posts: 1,104member
    Even if all your ports are USB-C, you will still need different cables for high power, or high data rates or both.
    The fun part is they all have the same connectors, but are not interchangeable.
    MplsPWgkruegerdewme
  • Reply 25 of 88
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    entropys said:
    entropys said:
    Not at all sure what it has to do with the CPU, but there is kinda a point about the dongle debacle.
    You know, other than the fact that there are all USB-C Windows laptops, and Intel was instrumental in the development of the physicality and protocol of the connector.

    Besides that, still no. Computer users have been adapting since day one, and will continue to do so forever. 
    All usb-c makes sense for ultra mobile form factors since it is the “do anything” port. USB-C represents the end of dongles since everything new is USB-C. The Mac Mini, iMac, and Mac Pro have traditional ports. I’ve pretty much converted all my USB-A ports to low wattage USB-C ports with compact adaptors at this point anyway. I’ve put USB-C cables on all my drives, monitors, etc. I’d rather just have USB-C everywhere.
    That’s lovely. Right up until your client hands you their stuff on a usba memory stick.
    Yes, it's so fsking stupid - just put one damn usb-a port too on the computer already.  It would be nice if someone could just Thanos Snap USB A out of existence but that ain't gonna happen so in the meantime we get a shitty user experience because of what someone thinks 'right' is.  

    This is the part of Apple that drives me bonkers.  At least as of late they seem to be willing to backtrack on some of these form over function design decisions so there is maybe some hope that saner, more practical and dare I say customer focused heads will prevail.  I hope the rumors of mag safe for power on the laptops are true - I immediately missed it with my M1 MBA.  And yes, even managed to launch it once by tripping over the USB C cord  :#
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingambaconstangspock1234
  • Reply 26 of 88
    DetnatorDetnator Posts: 287member
    I hope it wakes the morons at Apple up.
    My 2020 Mac Book pro barely qualifies as pro.
    A "pro computer" that I need a dongle to hook up to an external projector, monitor or ethernet.
    A pro computer that ditched the brilliant mag safe power cable.
    A pro computer than no longer allows me to stick an SD card in it.
    A pro computer that requires a dongle to connect a USB A jump drive- the industry standard way of walking files.

    And- they gouge me on the price of RAM, Storage by 3 to 10x what everyone else charges.
    With no user replaceable parts- and barely serviceable.

    And that was my Intel machine.
    Now- my M1 MacMini- can't connect to my Drobo- which is a 72 TB paperweight.
    Gee - thanks Apple.
    Y’know the whole “you’re holding it wrong” meme got a bit ridiculous back in the iPhone 4 day, but dude you really are doing it all wrong...

    As someone else pointed out, why on earth would you buy a computer that doesn’t support your peripherals when there are plenty of other computes (including other Macs) that do? Sorry buddy but that one is on you. 

    On all your other comments... you just don’t get Apple. All those points you’re complaining about are positive points for Apple’s target market.  Apple is not in the business of making devices for everyone. They don’t care about market share.  Since they were founded - except in the 90’s when they stopped doing this and the result was they nearly went bankrupt - Apple has always pushed things forward and left past and even current tech behind.  And a lot of that is a fundamental reason why their products stand out and the people they’re targeted at love them. 

    If Apple’s decisions are so terrible then why do you buy or want their products?  There are plenty of PCs with SD slots, all the ports you could possibly want, user upgradeable, and all at a fraction of the cost. Sounds like some of those would suit you just fine. What’s your problem?  

    Wait... I know what it is. You want macOS.  Why? Because it’s better. So why is it better? The answer to that is directly related to all your complaints.  macOS is better than Windows — and now Apple’s chips are better than anyone else’s — entirely because they push forward and don’t hold onto the past. Lack of backwards compatibility is the primary reason why macOS is better... because it’s not carrying around all the cruft the others are. And now they’re applying the same philosophy to their chips.

    Of course that assumes you’re complaining about Apple’s hardware because you want Apple’s software and Apple’s is the only hardware that will run it.  If that’s not the case then ... wtf? Troll?  Or what?
    qwerty52williamlondonFidonet127muthuk_vanalingamWgkruegerspock1234dewmetobianwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 88
    DetnatorDetnator Posts: 287member

    I have 6 or 7 Windows laptops, and several MacBook laptops... I just gotta say, it is nothing new that the USB dongle situation is truly out of control for macs.  You need a dongle for everything... dongles dongles dongles... I don't have any dongles connected to any of my Windows PCs... why? Because PCs generally bother to put appropriate ports for things like HDMI, displayport, Ethernet, and USB-A.

    And SO WHAT if you need an nVidia or AMD chip to play games decently on a Windows PC... AT LEAST YOU HAVE THE OPTION to purchase a machine with decent graphics and a decent CPU.  Some of Apple's most expensive machines have traditionally been lacking under the hood.  I've spent a good $6000 of a Windows PC before, sure.... but for that I got a PAIR of the best graphics cards money could buy and a 32-core/64-thread CPU... and hard-tube liquid cooling.  I don't know if anyone has made a 32-core or 64-core ARM chip... but if I'm wrong, educate me.
    Sounds to me like PCs are a great range of choices for you and Macs aren’t. So maybe you should stick with PCs, don’t waste your money on Macs and stop being such a victim. What’s the problem?
    qwerty52lkruppdewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 88
    DetnatorDetnator Posts: 287member
    entropys said:
    entropys said:
    Not at all sure what it has to do with the CPU, but there is kinda a point about the dongle debacle.
    You know, other than the fact that there are all USB-C Windows laptops, and Intel was instrumental in the development of the physicality and protocol of the connector.

    Besides that, still no. Computer users have been adapting since day one, and will continue to do so forever. 
    All usb-c makes sense for ultra mobile form factors since it is the “do anything” port. USB-C represents the end of dongles since everything new is USB-C. The Mac Mini, iMac, and Mac Pro have traditional ports. I’ve pretty much converted all my USB-A ports to low wattage USB-C ports with compact adaptors at this point anyway. I’ve put USB-C cables on all my drives, monitors, etc. I’d rather just have USB-C everywhere.
    That’s lovely. Right up until your client hands you their stuff on a usba memory stick.
    He’s simply saying the rest of the world needs to catch up. He’s saying he would prefer the client move forward as well and hand him a USB-C memory stick, or heaven forbid move into the digital 21st century and transfer it wirelessly.  He’s pointing out that it sucks that there are so many stupid people in the world that can’t wake up to the benefits of the newer technology and move ahead instead of digging their heels in clinging to what really should be the past by now.  

    He said he’d rather just have USB-C everywhere. And so would I. And so would a lot of people. It’s unfortunate that there are a lot of other people holding us back from that, very arguably better, situation. 
    jdb8167hcrefugeebestkeptsecretwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 88
    DetnatorDetnator Posts: 287member
    Even if all your ports are USB-C, you will still need different cables for high power, or high data rates or both.
    The fun part is they all have the same connectors, but are not interchangeable.
    Thunderbolt 4 (and with one caveat, USB-4 also) now require them to be interchangeable.  USB-C has been a mess but TB4 is finally straightening it out. 
    edited March 2021 jdb8167watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 88
    longfanglongfang Posts: 445member
    entropys said:
    entropys said:
    Not at all sure what it has to do with the CPU, but there is kinda a point about the dongle debacle.
    You know, other than the fact that there are all USB-C Windows laptops, and Intel was instrumental in the development of the physicality and protocol of the connector.

    Besides that, still no. Computer users have been adapting since day one, and will continue to do so forever. 
    All usb-c makes sense for ultra mobile form factors since it is the “do anything” port. USB-C represents the end of dongles since everything new is USB-C. The Mac Mini, iMac, and Mac Pro have traditional ports. I’ve pretty much converted all my USB-A ports to low wattage USB-C ports with compact adaptors at this point anyway. I’ve put USB-C cables on all my drives, monitors, etc. I’d rather just have USB-C everywhere.
    That’s lovely. Right up until your client hands you their stuff on a usba memory stick.
    These days I have the client send it to my cloud store. I would give up both nuts if I never have to meet a client face to face again.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 88
    longfanglongfang Posts: 445member
    Even if all your ports are USB-C, you will still need different cables for high power, or high data rates or both.
    The fun part is they all have the same connectors, but are not interchangeable.
    So what’s wrong with loading up on cables capable of both?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 88
    longfanglongfang Posts: 445member
    Detnator said:

    I have 6 or 7 Windows laptops, and several MacBook laptops... I just gotta say, it is nothing new that the USB dongle situation is truly out of control for macs.  You need a dongle for everything... dongles dongles dongles... I don't have any dongles connected to any of my Windows PCs... why? Because PCs generally bother to put appropriate ports for things like HDMI, displayport, Ethernet, and USB-A.

    And SO WHAT if you need an nVidia or AMD chip to play games decently on a Windows PC... AT LEAST YOU HAVE THE OPTION to purchase a machine with decent graphics and a decent CPU.  Some of Apple's most expensive machines have traditionally been lacking under the hood.  I've spent a good $6000 of a Windows PC before, sure.... but for that I got a PAIR of the best graphics cards money could buy and a 32-core/64-thread CPU... and hard-tube liquid cooling.  I don't know if anyone has made a 32-core or 64-core ARM chip... but if I'm wrong, educate me.
    Sounds to me like PCs are a great range of choices for you and Macs aren’t. So maybe you should stick with PCs, don’t waste your money on Macs and stop being such a victim. What’s the problem?
    If he did that he would not have an excuse to wail on about how Apple did him wrong. 
    qwerty52mcdavehcrefugeewatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 88
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,927member
    I hope it wakes the morons at Apple up.
    My 2020 Mac Book pro barely qualifies as pro.
    A "pro computer" that I need a dongle to hook up to an external projector, monitor or ethernet.
    A pro computer that ditched the brilliant mag safe power cable.
    A pro computer than no longer allows me to stick an SD card in it.
    A pro computer that requires a dongle to connect a USB A jump drive- the industry standard way of walking files.

    And- they gouge me on the price of RAM, Storage by 3 to 10x what everyone else charges.
    With no user replaceable parts- and barely serviceable.

    And that was my Intel machine.
    Now- my M1 MacMini- can't connect to my Drobo- which is a 72 TB paperweight.
    Gee - thanks Apple.
    Why are you buying computers which aren’t compatible with your stuff then blaming Apple?
    qwerty52williamlondonhcrefugeelkruppbaconstangspock1234watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 88
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,927member
    I have 6 or 7 Windows laptops, and several MacBook laptops... I just gotta say, it is nothing new that the USB dongle situation is truly out of control for macs.  You need a dongle for everything... dongles dongles dongles... I don't have any dongles connected to any of my Windows PCs... why? Because PCs generally bother to put appropriate ports for things like HDMI, displayport, Ethernet, and USB-A.

    And SO WHAT if you need an nVidia or AMD chip to play games decently on a Windows PC... AT LEAST YOU HAVE THE OPTION to purchase a machine with decent graphics and a decent CPU.  Some of Apple's most expensive machines have traditionally been lacking under the hood.  I've spent a good $6000 of a Windows PC before, sure.... but for that I got a PAIR of the best graphics cards money could buy and a 32-core/64-thread CPU... and hard-tube liquid cooling.  I don't know if anyone has made a 32-core or 64-core ARM chip... but if I'm wrong, educate me.
    The current supercomputer champ (Fujitsu Fugaku) has 48-core ARM CPUs beating IBM POWER9 but Intel doesn’t do performance computing.
    Ampere ships the 80-core ARM Altra CPUs with a 128-core version on the way. These, along with Graviton, will be pushing Intel out of the cloud/server market.
    I take it your PC is AMD Threadripper. Hard to know where Intel will be in 3-years.

    On dongles, the PC market may have options but not all PCs have all ports so users still get caught. Best to buy modern cables with the odd dongle for the odd exception.  Apple’s main failure was ditching the Thunderbolt Displays which were also hubs.
    mainyehcwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 88
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,927member
    longfang said:
    Even if all your ports are USB-C, you will still need different cables for high power, or high data rates or both.
    The fun part is they all have the same connectors, but are not interchangeable.
    So what’s wrong with loading up on cables capable of both?
    & dongling out old connectors (HDMI, USB xyz) with USB-C female dongles rather than dongling out the new stuff.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 88
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,911member
    Detnator said:
    ...
    If Apple’s decisions are so terrible then why do you buy or want their products?  There are plenty of PCs with SD slots, all the ports you could possibly want, user upgradeable, and all at a fraction of the cost. Sounds like some of those would suit you just fine. What’s your problem?  

    Wait... I know what it is. You want macOS.  Why? Because it’s better. So why is it better? The answer to that is directly related to all your complaints.  macOS is better than Windows — and now Apple’s chips are better than anyone else’s — entirely because they push forward and don’t hold onto the past. Lack of backwards compatibility is the primary reason why macOS is better... because it’s not carrying around all the cruft the others are. And now they’re applying the same philosophy to their chips.
    You do realize that there are many people who are heavily invested in Apple, so switching to a PC is not as simple as simply buying one, right? Unlike PCs you have no choice with Macs - there's one manufacturer, so if you want a Mac you have to ether take it or leave it. That gives Apple definite advantages in controlling the architecture, but at the expense of limited choice for users. You and many others seem to think that people are required to love everything Apple unconditionally. If they don't they are just a Troll and can go screw themselves and buy a PC. It'e entirely possible that you prefer Macs and MacOS but are annoyed by the needless inconveniences that Apple decides to foist upon their users.

    docno42 said:
    entropys said:
    entropys said:
    Not at all sure what it has to do with the CPU, but there is kinda a point about the dongle debacle.
    You know, other than the fact that there are all USB-C Windows laptops, and Intel was instrumental in the development of the physicality and protocol of the connector.

    Besides that, still no. Computer users have been adapting since day one, and will continue to do so forever. 
    All usb-c makes sense for ultra mobile form factors since it is the “do anything” port. USB-C represents the end of dongles since everything new is USB-C. The Mac Mini, iMac, and Mac Pro have traditional ports. I’ve pretty much converted all my USB-A ports to low wattage USB-C ports with compact adaptors at this point anyway. I’ve put USB-C cables on all my drives, monitors, etc. I’d rather just have USB-C everywhere.
    That’s lovely. Right up until your client hands you their stuff on a usba memory stick.
    Yes, it's so fsking stupid - just put one damn usb-a port too on the computer already.  It would be nice if someone could just Thanos Snap USB A out of existence but that ain't gonna happen so in the meantime we get a shitty user experience because of what someone thinks 'right' is.  

    This is the part of Apple that drives me bonkers.  At least as of late they seem to be willing to backtrack on some of these form over function design decisions so there is maybe some hope that saner, more practical and dare I say customer focused heads will prevail.  I hope the rumors of mag safe for power on the laptops are true - I immediately missed it with my M1 MBA.  And yes, even managed to launch it once by tripping over the USB C cord  :#
    This. As I've pointed out repeatedly, Phil Schiller said in 2015 "USB C is the future." Except USB A is the present and they sacrificed convenience and functionality in the present for a future that wouldn't arrive before the machines were replaced. Here we are 5 years later and USB A is still the dominant USB connector on the market. Even Apple is shipping their peripherals with USB A cables.
    baconstangmuthuk_vanalingamcgWerks
  • Reply 37 of 88
    MplsP said:
    This. As I've pointed out repeatedly, Phil Schiller said in 2015 "USB C is the future." Except USB A is the present and they sacrificed convenience and functionality in the present for a future that wouldn't arrive before the machines were replaced. Here we are 5 years later and USB A is still the dominant USB connector on the market. Even Apple is shipping their peripherals with USB A cables.
    Look as much as you complain about Apple, understand that people IE consumers are pushing Apple to be this way. People want modern Macs, and some people don’t want old connections. Cables wear out, so it isn’t a big deal to replace them with newer  connections. You see USB A as convenience, others see USB C only as the best convenience. Many things are wireless so cables and dongles are not used, so no dongle hell. 

    USB-C is the future. People can buy USB-C cables, chargers, and power banks from any manufacturer. USB-C doesn’t have a right way up. USB-C can deliver much higher bandwidth and power. You can use a USB-C power bank to run the laptop, which there wasn’t any power bank for mag safe laptops. Well maybe one or two, whereas there is lots of USB-C power banks.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 88
    There was a rumor a while back that Apple may bring back MagSafe, HDMI and SD card slot to their pro laptops. I do hope that is the case because that would eliminate the need for the majority of dongles and probably save a few flying saucer Macs from someone tripping on the power cable. 

    As for this campaign, well, if you have to mention your competitor, you’re obviously not in the lead. It’s not just that Intel is losing incremental sales of Mac laptops - it’s also the perception that they are being outperformed. And as M1 compatible versions of software is released, they will have trouble keeping up. Heck, Adobe even said that their M1 version of Photoshop runs up to 50% faster. To get that kind of boost out of an Intel processor is impossible at the same wattage right now. 

    Back when the “I’m a Mac” series ran, everyone had the perception that PC’s were in the leadership position. Even my gamer son that custom builds his PC’s just selected AMD over Intel to rock the latest games. 

    That should tell you something. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 88
    WgkruegerWgkrueger Posts: 352member
    A friend recently had her old MacBook Air go belly up and asked me to help with getting a new one. We went down to Best Buy and picked up the new M1 MacBook Air and she was up and running again with no loss of functionality. She doesn’t know her new Air is running a different processor architecture from her prior model and wouldn’t know what that meant if I told her. She doesn’t hook this up to a second monitor much less a third and having two USB-C ports means she’s got power and a port for a USB-C external drive for backups. She’s the target consumer for this device and I think Intel is right to be worried about their future.

    As Dell and other PC manufacturers start to file bankruptcy in the next three years and server farms start converting to energy efficient ARM processors Intel will see dwindling cash flows preventing them from further innovations. I give Intel 5 years. 
    Fidonet127spock1234watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 88
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    entropys said:
    Not at all sure what it has to do with the CPU, but there is kinda a point about the dongle debacle.
    My son-in-law is a show producer for a company that creates and manages live, in-person, corporate events. He has a literal suitcase full of adapters and dongles to ensure connections between all manner of hardware like computers, projectors, giant multi-screen displays, lighting, audio, video, WiFi, ethernet, you name it. 

    So if there’s a ‘dongle debacle’ it’s a worldwide technology debacle, not Apple alone. 
    Fidonet127Wgkruegerkillroyspock1234watto_cobra
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