Not at all sure what it has to do with the CPU, but there is kinda a point about the dongle debacle.
You know, other than the fact that there are all USB-C Windows laptops, and Intel was instrumental in the development of the physicality and protocol of the connector.
Besides that, still no. Computer users have been adapting since day one, and will continue to do so forever.
All usb-c makes sense for ultra mobile form factors since it is the “do anything” port. USB-C represents the end of dongles since everything new is USB-C. The Mac Mini, iMac, and Mac Pro have traditional ports. I’ve pretty much converted all my USB-A ports to low wattage USB-C ports with compact adaptors at this point anyway. I’ve put USB-C cables on all my drives, monitors, etc. I’d rather just have USB-C everywhere.
That’s lovely. Right up until your client hands you their stuff on a usba memory stick.
This is the same old “until they hand you an aux cord” argument that didn’t age well. None of these ever age well.
This. As I've pointed out repeatedly, Phil Schiller said in 2015 "USB C is the future." Except USB A is the present and they sacrificed convenience and functionality in the present for a future that wouldn't arrive before the machines were replaced. Here we are 5 years later and USB A is still the dominant USB connector on the market. Even Apple is shipping their peripherals with USB A cables.
Look as much as you complain about Apple, understand that people IE consumers are pushing Apple to be this way. People want modern Macs, and some people don’t want old connections. Cables wear out, so it isn’t a big deal to replace them with newer connections. You see USB A as convenience, others see USB C only as the best convenience. Many things are wireless so cables and dongles are not used, so no dongle hell.
USB-C is the future. People can buy USB-C cables, chargers, and power banks from any manufacturer. USB-C doesn’t have a right way up. USB-C can deliver much higher bandwidth and power. You can use a USB-C power bank to run the laptop, which there wasn’t any power bank for mag safe laptops. Well maybe one or two, whereas there is lots of USB-C power banks.
Are consumers pushing Apple or is Apple pushing consumers? If there were different models of laptops and nobody was buying one then you could easily say that it was consumers driving change. In this case I think it’s more Apple pushing consumers.
I don’t dispute that USB C is the future, and I’m not opposed to USB C devices; my complaint is with consumers being forced to use a connection that saddles them with extra costs and inconvenience because Apple thinks the future is more important than the present.
It’s rather ironic that everyone who defends Apple’s USB C-only approach basically says ‘there are ways to work around it,’ buying new cables, being ‘prepared’ by always having the appropriate cables or adapters with, etc. What they are essentially arguing is the ‘future’ requires inconvenience. If you need the additional functionally that breeds the inconvenience that may be fine, but if the inconvenience doesn’t give you anything then you end up behind.
I am pretty sad to see this ad campaign. I am an avid mac user and also have seen apple's switch to intel as a major reason why I migrated to mac. I can understand why apple feels being held back by intel which is leading to this jump. My own experience with the ARM architecture makes me feel that it isn't everything it is said to be. It covers certain use case better than x64 but it isn't all use cases and in a lot of it hinges more around specific design choices and software than it is about ARM vs x64. If intel had not been stagnant for so many years with their manufacturing technology compared to tsmc, the situation would be very different today. Besides Apple is still a customer for intel. The hurdle to migrate macOS to ARM is significant and though I have an M1 MBA in the household, I am not anywhere close to move my mission critical systems to it. I am finding out that it may not be especially faster or more efficient. This reaction from intel however... is suicide. I don't know who came up with it or approved it but the sheer ignorance of the content and more importantly the strategic mistake to play into PC Vs MAC when intel is still in the MAC and PCs momentum is towards AMD... is just plain stupid. They are really advertising for Microsoft and AMD.
This. As I've pointed out repeatedly, Phil Schiller said in 2015 "USB C is the future." Except USB A is the present and they sacrificed convenience and functionality in the present for a future that wouldn't arrive before the machines were replaced. Here we are 5 years later and USB A is still the dominant USB connector on the market. Even Apple is shipping their peripherals with USB A cables.
Look as much as you complain about Apple, understand that people IE consumers are pushing Apple to be this way. People want modern Macs, and some people don’t want old connections. Cables wear out, so it isn’t a big deal to replace them with newer connections. You see USB A as convenience, others see USB C only as the best convenience. Many things are wireless so cables and dongles are not used, so no dongle hell.
USB-C is the future. People can buy USB-C cables, chargers, and power banks from any manufacturer. USB-C doesn’t have a right way up. USB-C can deliver much higher bandwidth and power. You can use a USB-C power bank to run the laptop, which there wasn’t any power bank for mag safe laptops. Well maybe one or two, whereas there is lots of USB-C power banks.
Are consumers pushing Apple or is Apple pushing consumers? If there were different models of laptops and nobody was buying one then you could easily say that it was consumers driving change. In this case I think it’s more Apple pushing consumers.
I don’t dispute that USB C is the future, and I’m not opposed to USB C devices; my complaint is with consumers being forced to use a connection that saddles them with extra costs and inconvenience because Apple thinks the future is more important than the present.
It’s rather ironic that everyone who defends Apple’s USB C-only approach basically says ‘there are ways to work around it,’ buying new cables, being ‘prepared’ by always having the appropriate cables or adapters with, etc. What they are essentially arguing is the ‘future’ requires inconvenience. If you need the additional functionally that breeds the inconvenience that may be fine, but if the inconvenience doesn’t give you anything then you end up behind.
Your right of course, Apple should have all the currently used ports on every laptop. You don’t mind sending Apple some feedback asking them to include a nine pin RS-232 port with 12V signaling? 5V signaling isn’t as compatible. I can use all the feedback I can to get Apple to add such a port. Yes I still do use that port with microcontrollers.
Kinda sad, Intel still makes same good chips and rules the server market more or less. Still they could have come up something more original then belittling the competition. But everyone does it these says it seems.
It's great to see AMD giving them real competition as they seemed to rest on their laurels and in the end it caused them to lose Apple as a customer. I wish Apple went with AMD to keep Bootcamp but oh well. Looking forward to the new iMac.
This. As I've pointed out repeatedly, Phil Schiller said in 2015 "USB C is the future." Except USB A is the present and they sacrificed convenience and functionality in the present for a future that wouldn't arrive before the machines were replaced. Here we are 5 years later and USB A is still the dominant USB connector on the market. Even Apple is shipping their peripherals with USB A cables.
Look as much as you complain about Apple, understand that people IE consumers are pushing Apple to be this way. People want modern Macs, and some people don’t want old connections. Cables wear out, so it isn’t a big deal to replace them with newer connections. You see USB A as convenience, others see USB C only as the best convenience. Many things are wireless so cables and dongles are not used, so no dongle hell.
USB-C is the future. People can buy USB-C cables, chargers, and power banks from any manufacturer. USB-C doesn’t have a right way up. USB-C can deliver much higher bandwidth and power. You can use a USB-C power bank to run the laptop, which there wasn’t any power bank for mag safe laptops. Well maybe one or two, whereas there is lots of USB-C power banks.
Are consumers pushing Apple or is Apple pushing consumers? If there were different models of laptops and nobody was buying one then you could easily say that it was consumers driving change. In this case I think it’s more Apple pushing consumers.
I don’t dispute that USB C is the future, and I’m not opposed to USB C devices; my complaint is with consumers being forced to use a connection that saddles them with extra costs and inconvenience because Apple thinks the future is more important than the present.
It’s rather ironic that everyone who defends Apple’s USB C-only approach basically says ‘there are ways to work around it,’ buying new cables, being ‘prepared’ by always having the appropriate cables or adapters with, etc. What they are essentially arguing is the ‘future’ requires inconvenience. If you need the additional functionally that breeds the inconvenience that may be fine, but if the inconvenience doesn’t give you anything then you end up behind.
Your right of course, Apple should have all the currently used ports on every laptop. You don’t mind sending Apple some feedback asking them to include a nine pin RS-232 port with 12V signaling? 5V signaling isn’t as compatible. I can use all the feedback I can to get Apple to add such a port. Yes I still do use that port with microcontrollers.
Either you are too dense to understand or unable to come up with a coherent counterpoint. either way there's not much use. It's sad when the only way someone can respond is with incoherent tripe.
Even if all your ports are USB-C, you will still need different cables for high power, or high data rates or both. The fun part is they all have the same connectors, but are not interchangeable.
That's the annoying part. The various cables should be color coded like electrical wiring is; you can id a cable at a glance.
Not at all sure what it has to do with the CPU, but there is kinda a point about the dongle debacle.
My son-in-law is a show producer for a company that creates and manages live, in-person, corporate events. He has a literal suitcase full of adapters and dongles to ensure connections between all manner of hardware like computers, projectors, giant multi-screen displays, lighting, audio, video, WiFi, ethernet, you name it.
So if there’s a ‘dongle debacle’ it’s a worldwide technology debacle, not Apple alone.
Unfortunately, there's no getting away from dongles and adapters - as technology evolves the adapters evolve to fill new needs, as long as different generations of technology need to work together there will be the need for different plugs and adapters.
The difference with laptops is they are by their very nature designed for convenience. Forcing a user to carry adapters just to connect to a current and common standard is most decidedly not convenient. Bringing your laptop to a presentation shouldn't be the same as setting up for a professional multimedia event.
Intel's agency is VMLY&R which is a worldwide agency created by a merger. It has famous and notable roots and accolades. The agency for Apple at the time of the Get A Mac ads was TBWA/Chiat Day (now TBWA/Arts Lab an agency with Apple as its only client), part of TBWA Worldwide an agency with a similar history to VMLY&R.
However, it is obvious that one of these things is not like the other. Intel needs to up their ad game if they expect to gain any traction.
Even if all your ports are USB-C, you will still need different cables for high power, or high data rates or both. The fun part is they all have the same connectors, but are not interchangeable.
So what’s wrong with loading up on cables capable of both?
It took a few minutes to find the one cable offered by Monoprice that was capable of 100w charging and 40Gbps. 2m cable, $64. Fill up your bag... Questions? This could help clear things up... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C
The M1 Mac mini will run two displays at the same time.
1. One (and only one) connected via Thunderbolt 4
2. One connected via HDMI
Not just the Mac mini - even the MacBook Air can do 2 external screens, running 2 x 28 inch 4K Dell monitors in my office using a WAVLINK dock.
The funny part to this chest beating by Intel is that almost every other entry level laptop cannot drive two displays - as the USB C chipset most are sold with are unable to drive a monitor. It’s the dumbest shit.
If you cannot understand that old ports should not be on modern laptops, then move away from tech and live in a cave.
Got it - you're going to try the "old is not useful" trope. Do I really need to explain the difference between 'old' and 'useful' to you?
What is useful and convenient to you doesn’t mean the same thing to others. To others, all USB-C is convenient and useful. Somehow you can’t understand that. In this and other threads people have been wanting only USB-C. Period. Again, having only USB-C ports hasn’t hurt Apple’s sales. Yes it is inconvenient to some people. Most people do not notice the lack of USB-A, let alone think of it as dongle hell. This is because most people’s workflow doesn’t involve cables or devices, except for power or involve wireless devices most of the time. Additionally, the added weight, space and power consumption isn’t worth it for most people. Yes additional ports will consume additional power. Additional ports involve additional milling and parts. Additional milling, parts and power consumption is added negative environmental impact. USB-A is not what people think of as modern.
I am SO disappointed that Apple doesn't support RS-232 for my Trinitron monitor! AND my SS/SD hard sector 5.25" floppy drive. AND SCSI! Where do I plug in my 250 MB full height hard drive? A perfectly good $1500 gone to waste. At least Apple doesn't need a dongle for IT support to pay attention to you.
If you cannot understand that old ports should not be on modern laptops, then move away from tech and live in a cave.
Got it - you're going to try the "old is not useful" trope. Do I really need to explain the difference between 'old' and 'useful' to you?
What is useful and convenient to you doesn’t mean the same thing to others. To others, all USB-C is convenient and useful. Somehow you can’t understand that. In this and other threads people have been wanting only USB-C. Period. Again, having only USB-C ports hasn’t hurt Apple’s sales. Yes it is inconvenient to some people. Most people do not notice the lack of USB-A, let alone think of it as dongle hell. This is because most people’s workflow doesn’t involve cables or devices, except for power or involve wireless devices most of the time. Additionally, the added weight, space and power consumption isn’t worth it for most people. Yes additional ports will consume additional power. Additional ports involve additional milling and parts. Additional milling, parts and power consumption is added negative environmental impact. USB-A is not what people think of as modern.
I have no idea what percentage of people would use a USB A port or an HDMI port on a MacBook if they existed, but I do know that it’s not a small number and I am not the only one here on AI who feels that way. Here’s a prime example - when my daughter bought a new laptop for college she looked at Macs and PCs and one of the first things she noticed was the PC has a ‘normal’ (her words, not mine) USB port and an HDMI port. She didn’t want to have to worry about forgetting a dongle when she needed to make a presentation or use a friends flash drive. She’s an average, nontechnical 20 year old woman, not some IT-type who gets worked up about specs. She just cares about using her computer.
The people who don’t use any ports at all won’t care either way and would be happy with nothing but a power cable. For the people that do, how many people need 4 TB USB C ports? Very few, so I would wager the number of people inconvenienced by buying, keeping track of and losing dongles is significantly greater.
As for the power consumption of extra ports - seriously? They use the same controller and the ‘cost’ of milling a USB A (or HDMI) port is the same as milling a USB C port. If you want to talk about manufacturing then add the manufacturing costs of the dongles to be consistent.
You seem to be hung up on ‘modern.’ I’m hung up on usability. You’re also forgetting that the majority of USB C ports on computers are simply USB 3 and have zero added capabilities beyond a USB A port, so I fail to see how they are any more modern, other than adding confusion over capabilities.
One last thing - when I use my MBP at my desk with my Apple BT keyboard, I routinely have to plug the keyboard in because the BT connection isn’t reliable. I use the USB A cable that came with the keyboard.
If you cannot understand that old ports should not be on modern laptops, then move away from tech and live in a cave.
Got it - you're going to try the "old is not useful" trope. Do I really need to explain the difference between 'old' and 'useful' to you?
What is useful and convenient to you doesn’t mean the same thing to others. To others, all USB-C is convenient and useful. Somehow you can’t understand that. In this and other threads people have been wanting only USB-C. Period. Again, having only USB-C ports hasn’t hurt Apple’s sales. Yes it is inconvenient to some people. Most people do not notice the lack of USB-A, let alone think of it as dongle hell. This is because most people’s workflow doesn’t involve cables or devices, except for power or involve wireless devices most of the time. Additionally, the added weight, space and power consumption isn’t worth it for most people. Yes additional ports will consume additional power. Additional ports involve additional milling and parts. Additional milling, parts and power consumption is added negative environmental impact. USB-A is not what people think of as modern.
I have no idea what percentage of people would use a USB A port or an HDMI port on a MacBook if they existed, but I do know that it’s not a small number and I am not the only one here on AI who feels that way. Here’s a prime example - when my daughter bought a new laptop for college she looked at Macs and PCs and one of the first things she noticed was the PC has a ‘normal’ (her words, not mine) USB port and an HDMI port. She didn’t want to have to worry about forgetting a dongle when she needed to make a presentation or use a friends flash drive. She’s an average, nontechnical 20 year old woman, not some IT-type who gets worked up about specs. She just cares about using her computer.
The people who don’t use any ports at all won’t care either way and would be happy with nothing but a power cable. For the people that do, how many people need 4 TB USB C ports? Very few, so I would wager the number of people inconvenienced by buying, keeping track of and losing dongles is significantly greater.
As for the power consumption of extra ports - seriously? They use the same controller and the ‘cost’ of milling a USB A (or HDMI) port is the same as milling a USB C port. If you want to talk about manufacturing then add the manufacturing costs of the dongles to be consistent.
You seem to be hung up on ‘modern.’ I’m hung up on usability. You’re also forgetting that the majority of USB C ports on computers are simply USB 3 and have zero added capabilities beyond a USB A port, so I fail to see how they are any more modern, other than adding confusion over capabilities.
One last thing - when I use my MBP at my desk with my Apple BT keyboard, I routinely have to plug the keyboard in because the BT connection isn’t reliable. I use the USB A cable that came with the keyboard.
Wrong. I’m pointing out usability, convenience and modern. You cannot accept for some people, all three USB-C is what they want and works for them. I’ve acknowledged that for some people they want USB-A.
For Macs, the USB-C ports are not just USB 3, they are also Thunderbolt so they offer a lot more flexibility, power, and bandwidth. USB-A doesn’t have any of that. USB-A is backwards and you have to make sure it is plugged in right side up. So yes, USB-C ports are more modern. Yes they offer a lot more bandwidth. We are talking about Macs. Apple isn’t responsible for the confusion with PC ports.
Yes power consumption for two reasons. One is people use Laptops on battery power. More Watts used, less run time. Second, these Watts add up when you are talking about millions of computers. This is the scale Apple is dealing with.
Again, cables wear out and some point Apple will either not include a cable with the keyboards or put in USB-C cables. The iPhones come with USC-C cables. I use the USB-A cable that came with my keyboard to charge it with my 5W power adapter that people complained about.
I’m not saying people who want USB-A ports is a small number. This isn’t 2015, things have changed. A good deal of people have moved on. You and many others can complain all you want, however Apple is unlikely to add those ports to the Laptops. If they do, it doesn’t bother me.
I hope it wakes the morons at Apple up. My 2020 Mac Book pro barely qualifies as pro.
A "pro computer" that I need a dongle to hook up to an external projector, monitor or ethernet. A pro computer that ditched the brilliant mag safe power cable. A pro computer than no longer allows me to stick an SD card in it. A pro computer that requires a dongle to connect a USB A jump drive- the industry standard way of walking files.
And- they gouge me on the price of RAM, Storage by 3 to 10x what everyone else charges. With no user replaceable parts- and barely serviceable.
And that was my Intel machine. Now- my M1 MacMini- can't connect to my Drobo- which is a 72 TB paperweight. Gee - thanks Apple.
Just curious- do you not research your purchases based on your workflow and needs? Pretty sure all those limitations to your current workflow weren’t surprises.
Im a professional trader and the mac platform is a total and utter failure for professional stock trading and please don’t try to justify think or swim running on java. Its a non starter . Have you tried shorting a stock on TOS!
I hope it wakes the morons at Apple up. My 2020 Mac Book pro barely qualifies as pro.
A "pro computer" that I need a dongle to hook up to an external projector, monitor or ethernet. A pro computer that ditched the brilliant mag safe power cable. A pro computer than no longer allows me to stick an SD card in it. A pro computer that requires a dongle to connect a USB A jump drive- the industry standard way of walking files.
And- they gouge me on the price of RAM, Storage by 3 to 10x what everyone else charges. With no user replaceable parts- and barely serviceable.
And that was my Intel machine. Now- my M1 MacMini- can't connect to my Drobo- which is a 72 TB paperweight. Gee - thanks Apple.
Your M1 MacMini has integrated RAM so Apple did not gouge you on your RAM costs. The M1 containing Macs are more affordable than the Intel models they replace. So what is the issue? Surely as a pro user, you knew when you bought new technology that there would be compatibility issues, right?
Comments
This is the same old “until they hand you an aux cord” argument that didn’t age well. None of these ever age well.
Unfortunately, there's no getting away from dongles and adapters - as technology evolves the adapters evolve to fill new needs, as long as different generations of technology need to work together there will be the need for different plugs and adapters.
The difference with laptops is they are by their very nature designed for convenience. Forcing a user to carry adapters just to connect to a current and common standard is most decidedly not convenient. Bringing your laptop to a presentation shouldn't be the same as setting up for a professional multimedia event.
The agency for Apple at the time of the Get A Mac ads was TBWA/Chiat Day (now TBWA/Arts Lab an agency with Apple as its only client), part of TBWA Worldwide an agency with a similar history to VMLY&R.
However, it is obvious that one of these things is not like the other.
Intel needs to up their ad game if they expect to gain any traction.
Fill up your bag...
Questions? This could help clear things up... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C
For Macs, the USB-C ports are not just USB 3, they are also Thunderbolt so they offer a lot more flexibility, power, and bandwidth. USB-A doesn’t have any of that. USB-A is backwards and you have to make sure it is plugged in right side up. So yes, USB-C ports are more modern. Yes they offer a lot more bandwidth. We are talking about Macs. Apple isn’t responsible for the confusion with PC ports.