Brazil fines Apple $1.9M for not including charger in iPhone 12 box

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 41
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,152member
    Would Apple have been fitted up for the price if it had dropped the price if the iPhone in line with the removal of the charger I wonder?
    which they didn’t do for profit, sorry, I mean they did it for the environment.
    forgot username
  • Reply 22 of 41
    fred1fred1 Posts: 1,112member
    lkrupp said:
    fred1 said:
    This is nuts. Companies don’t have the right to include or not any accessories with their products? Or to decide what their warranty covers? What’s next, the state determining prices?
    Be careful what you talk about. Price controls are the first step to a centrally managed economy and I’m positive they are being discussed and promoted by people like AOC. Remember the Soviet Union's ‘Five Year Plans’ that always failed?  
    Nice non seqitur. Any other non related matters you want to add?

    Another question: where was the litigation when Apple started to eliminate the plastic box for the EarPods or when they stopped including those altogether? What woke the Brazilians up this time?
  • Reply 23 of 41
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Glad to see Brazil do something right.   It doesn't happen very often these days.
  • Reply 24 of 41
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    lkrupp said:
    fred1 said:
    This is nuts. Companies don’t have the right to include or not any accessories with their products? Or to decide what their warranty covers? What’s next, the state determining prices?
    Be careful what you talk about. Price controls are the first step to a centrally managed economy and I’m positive they are being discussed and promoted by people like AOC. Remember the Soviet Union's ‘Five Year Plans’ that always failed?  
    Remember China's 5 year plans -- that always seem to succeed, pulled hundreds of millions out of poverty, and will soon let it overtake the U.S. as world's leading economy?

    The ideological viewpoint is that capitalism is always better than socialism (or vice-versa)
    The reality based viewpoint is that right things tend to happen to those who do the right things -- it doesn't care about ideology.

    Personally, I prefer reality


  • Reply 25 of 41
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,624member
    Just my 2 cents (also full disclosure: I’m Brazilian, and I have a better understanding about some local issues, but I’ll defer to my fellow forum members if that skews my judgment).

    Brazilian consumer protection law states that any product sold here must be fully functional. There should be no need of additional purchases to get basic functionality. Now there are some legitimate arguments that the lack of a power brick infringes the letter of the law. I myself am all in for “greener” initiatives, but IMHO Apple is wanting in providing a satisfactory justification.

    Now, for the price raise argument. It’s entirely on Apple’s power to do so, and maybe they should. I can’t fathom where the state controlled prices, Soviet Union and AOC narrative came from in previous comments. I’d go out on a limb here and just say it’s some sore Republican that never traveled more than a 100 miles from his hometown, and/or attended an university.

    Just keep in mind that Apple has an extremely loyal customer base in Brazil. In the past two years our currency devaluations to half its value when compared to US dollar. Five years ago I purchased my current MBP. Today the same amount of money would only get me halfway into a new iPhone price tag! If you account for purchase power parity, it’s even worse than that. A new iPhone costs 11 months worth of minimum wage for a person.

    Now, you may disagree with me (it’s kind of the point of a forum), but my take is: for that kind of money, not only should the power brick be included, it shouldn’t be a half-assed 5 W that takes half of forever to fully charge my iPhone!
    I will just add to your well reasoned comments that (as per the article) there were also issues with how Apple communicated the fact that no charger was included in the box.

    Some people above your post were perhaps a bit jumpy when it came to rushing to their conclusions.


    osmartormenajr
  • Reply 26 of 41
    Brazil’s economy keeps going down, it’s super expensive to buy apple there. I agree with Brazil that the chargers should be included free.
  • Reply 27 of 41
    Excellent news!
  • Reply 28 of 41
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,152member
    lkrupp said:
    fred1 said:
    This is nuts. Companies don’t have the right to include or not any accessories with their products? Or to decide what their warranty covers? What’s next, the state determining prices?
    Be careful what you talk about. Price controls are the first step to a centrally managed economy and I’m positive they are being discussed and promoted by people like AOC. Remember the Soviet Union's ‘Five Year Plans’ that always failed?  
    Remember China's 5 year plans -- that always seem to succeed, pulled hundreds of millions out of poverty, and will soon let it overtake the U.S. as world's leading economy?

    The ideological viewpoint is that capitalism is always better than socialism (or vice-versa)
    The reality based viewpoint is that right things tend to happen to those who do the right things -- it doesn't care about ideology.

    Personally, I prefer reality


    China’s five year plans worked as well as the soviets until they adopted aspects of capitalism, allowing corporations and businesses to exist rather than everything owned by the State, but the businesses are still under state control.  What Mussolini called fascism, not the kind that the Antifa kiddies rail about.
  • Reply 29 of 41
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    entropys said:
    lkrupp said:
    fred1 said:
    This is nuts. Companies don’t have the right to include or not any accessories with their products? Or to decide what their warranty covers? What’s next, the state determining prices?
    Be careful what you talk about. Price controls are the first step to a centrally managed economy and I’m positive they are being discussed and promoted by people like AOC. Remember the Soviet Union's ‘Five Year Plans’ that always failed?  
    Remember China's 5 year plans -- that always seem to succeed, pulled hundreds of millions out of poverty, and will soon let it overtake the U.S. as world's leading economy?

    The ideological viewpoint is that capitalism is always better than socialism (or vice-versa)
    The reality based viewpoint is that right things tend to happen to those who do the right things -- it doesn't care about ideology.

    Personally, I prefer reality


    China’s five year plans worked as well as the soviets until they adopted aspects of capitalism, allowing corporations and businesses to exist rather than everything owned by the State, but the businesses are still under state control.  What Mussolini called fascism, not the kind that the Antifa kiddies rail about.

    True -- except for the part about their corporations are controlled by the state.
    Theirs are no more controlled by the state than are ours -- despite Trump's fabrications.

    But, I'm not sure how you worked antifa into all that - and especially how you equated an anti-fascism group with fascism!   Just the obsessive hate and racism I guess.
  • Reply 30 of 41
    tommikeletommikele Posts: 599member
    lkrupp said:
    fred1 said:
    This is nuts. Companies don’t have the right to include or not any accessories with their products? Or to decide what their warranty covers? What’s next, the state determining prices?
    Be careful what you talk about. Price controls are the first step to a centrally managed economy and I’m positive they are being discussed and promoted by people like AOC. Remember the Soviet Union's ‘Five Year Plans’ that always failed?  
    AOC? Misguided and self debasing attempt to inject irrelevancy while satisfying some misguided personal ideology.
    GeorgeBMacfred1
  • Reply 31 of 41
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,152member
    entropys said:
    lkrupp said:
    Wfred1 said:
    This is nuts. Companies don’t have the right to include or not any accessories with their products? Or to decide what their warranty covers? What’s next, the state determining prices?
    Be careful what you talk about. Price controls are the first step to a centrally managed economy and I’m positive they are being discussed and promoted by people like AOC. Remember the Soviet Union's ‘Five Year Plans’ that always failed?  
    Remember China's 5 year plans -- that always seem to succeed, pulled hundreds of millions out of poverty, and will soon let it overtake the U.S. as world's leading economy?

    The ideological viewpoint is that capitalism is always better than socialism (or vice-versa)
    The reality based viewpoint is that right things tend to happen to those who do the right things -- it doesn't care about ideology.

    Personally, I prefer reality


    China’s five year plans worked as well as the soviets until they adopted aspects of capitalism, allowing corporations and businesses to exist rather than everything owned by the State, but the businesses are still under state control.  What Mussolini called fascism, not the kind that the Antifa kiddies rail about.

    True -- except for the part about their corporations are controlled by the state.
    Theirs are no more controlled by the state than are ours -- despite Trump's fabrications.

    But, I'm not sure how you worked antifa into all that - and especially how you equated an anti-fascism group with fascism!   Just the obsessive hate and racism I guess.
    No it’s just most of the kiddies have not been taught history and anti capitalism is not anti fascism, no matter what they label themselves.  Not sure about where the racism bit comes into it either. And if you believe china’s corporate leaders aren’t beholden to, and there at the grace of the State I have a big bridge to sell you.

    anyway, Brazil’s protectionist policies are just a milder form of it.  My country was riddled with similar policies to the point of sclerosis about 50 years ago and it was a fair bit of pain to remove them from the vested interests. In recent years, Trump included there has been pressure to return to those days. The political cycle at work.
    edited March 2021
  • Reply 32 of 41
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    entropys said:
    entropys said:
    lkrupp said:
    Wfred1 said:
    This is nuts. Companies don’t have the right to include or not any accessories with their products? Or to decide what their warranty covers? What’s next, the state determining prices?
    Be careful what you talk about. Price controls are the first step to a centrally managed economy and I’m positive they are being discussed and promoted by people like AOC. Remember the Soviet Union's ‘Five Year Plans’ that always failed?  
    Remember China's 5 year plans -- that always seem to succeed, pulled hundreds of millions out of poverty, and will soon let it overtake the U.S. as world's leading economy?

    The ideological viewpoint is that capitalism is always better than socialism (or vice-versa)
    The reality based viewpoint is that right things tend to happen to those who do the right things -- it doesn't care about ideology.

    Personally, I prefer reality


    China’s five year plans worked as well as the soviets until they adopted aspects of capitalism, allowing corporations and businesses to exist rather than everything owned by the State, but the businesses are still under state control.  What Mussolini called fascism, not the kind that the Antifa kiddies rail about.

    True -- except for the part about their corporations are controlled by the state.
    Theirs are no more controlled by the state than are ours -- despite Trump's fabrications.

    But, I'm not sure how you worked antifa into all that - and especially how you equated an anti-fascism group with fascism!   Just the obsessive hate and racism I guess.
    No it’s just most of the kiddies have not been taught history and anti capitalism is not anti fascism, no matter what they label themselves.  Not sure about where the racism bit comes into it either. And if you believe china’s corporate leaders aren’t beholden to, and there at the grace of the State I have a big bridge to sell you.

    anyway, Brazil’s protectionist policies are just a milder form of it.  My country was riddled with similar policies to the point of sclerosis about 50 years ago and it was a fair bit of pain to remove them from the vested interests. In recent years, Trump included there has been pressure to return to those days. The political cycle at work.

    I would say that it is you who might try studying up on history -- such the history of labor and oppression in the U.S.   And, while you're at it you might update yourself on current events because it appears that you think that Progressives and Antifa are one in the same.

    And, as I said, Chinese corporations are no more under the control of their government than our are -- that's just another of Trump's fabrications that became Gospel among his followers.
  • Reply 33 of 41
    lkrupp said:
    Easy fix, just raise the prices of Brazilian iPhones to cover the cost of the forced inclusion of a charger. $50 ought to be about right.

    Considering that Apple hasn't dropped the price when they stopped including the charger, why should they now increase the price to re-include?
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 34 of 41
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    NinjaMan said:
    lkrupp said:
    Easy fix, just raise the prices of Brazilian iPhones to cover the cost of the forced inclusion of a charger. $50 ought to be about right.

    Considering that Apple hasn't dropped the price when they stopped including the charger, why should they now increase the price to re-include?
    Different product.  Apple never sold the iPhone 11 without a charger and has never (yet) sold the iPhone 12 with a charger.  No price drop between iPhone 11 and 12 doesn't mean anything, they have a different cost of production.
  • Reply 35 of 41
    crowley said:
    NinjaMan said:
    lkrupp said:
    Easy fix, just raise the prices of Brazilian iPhones to cover the cost of the forced inclusion of a charger. $50 ought to be about right.

    Considering that Apple hasn't dropped the price when they stopped including the charger, why should they now increase the price to re-include?
    Different product.  Apple never sold the iPhone 11 without a charger and has never (yet) sold the iPhone 12 with a charger.  No price drop between iPhone 11 and 12 doesn't mean anything, they have a different cost of production.
    There are conflicting reports so depending on what you want to believe the cost to produce the 11 was around $480 and the 12 around $409..again, a lot of conflicting reports so unless you for Apple manufacturing no one will actually know the cost difference
  • Reply 36 of 41
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    crowley said:
    NinjaMan said:
    lkrupp said:
    Easy fix, just raise the prices of Brazilian iPhones to cover the cost of the forced inclusion of a charger. $50 ought to be about right.

    Considering that Apple hasn't dropped the price when they stopped including the charger, why should they now increase the price to re-include?
    Different product.  Apple never sold the iPhone 11 without a charger and has never (yet) sold the iPhone 12 with a charger.  No price drop between iPhone 11 and 12 doesn't mean anything, they have a different cost of production.

    Good excuse!
  • Reply 37 of 41
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    NinjaMan said:
    crowley said:
    NinjaMan said:
    lkrupp said:
    Easy fix, just raise the prices of Brazilian iPhones to cover the cost of the forced inclusion of a charger. $50 ought to be about right.

    Considering that Apple hasn't dropped the price when they stopped including the charger, why should they now increase the price to re-include?
    Different product.  Apple never sold the iPhone 11 without a charger and has never (yet) sold the iPhone 12 with a charger.  No price drop between iPhone 11 and 12 doesn't mean anything, they have a different cost of production.
    There are conflicting reports so depending on what you want to believe the cost to produce the 11 was around $480 and the 12 around $409..again, a lot of conflicting reports so unless you for Apple manufacturing no one will actually know the cost difference
    And yet assumed you did when you complained that Apple hadn't "dropped the price", when you're talking about different products which you don't know the costs of.
  • Reply 38 of 41
    This is too much, if you let them they will ask you for more. I mean Brazil it’s not only country that Apple do not include in the charging brick, so if they want they just have to buy it just like the rest of us. Or if you want it Apple to include, then Apple just raise up the price you know and make sure they understand that it will have to be done because it’s not fair to the customer outside of Brazil that have to pay for the same price without the charging brick either.
  • Reply 39 of 41
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,989member
    entropys said:
    lkrupp said:
    fred1 said:
    This is nuts. Companies don’t have the right to include or not any accessories with their products? Or to decide what their warranty covers? What’s next, the state determining prices?
    Be careful what you talk about. Price controls are the first step to a centrally managed economy and I’m positive they are being discussed and promoted by people like AOC. Remember the Soviet Union's ‘Five Year Plans’ that always failed?  
    Remember China's 5 year plans -- that always seem to succeed, pulled hundreds of millions out of poverty, and will soon let it overtake the U.S. as world's leading economy?

    The ideological viewpoint is that capitalism is always better than socialism (or vice-versa)
    The reality based viewpoint is that right things tend to happen to those who do the right things -- it doesn't care about ideology.

    Personally, I prefer reality


    China’s five year plans worked as well as the soviets until they adopted aspects of capitalism, allowing corporations and businesses to exist rather than everything owned by the State, but the businesses are still under state control.  What Mussolini called fascism, not the kind that the Antifa kiddies rail about.

    True -- except for the part about their corporations are controlled by the state.
    Theirs are no more controlled by the state than are ours -- despite Trump's fabrications.

    But, I'm not sure how you worked antifa into all that - and especially how you equated an anti-fascism group with fascism!   Just the obsessive hate and racism I guess.
    Yeah, no. China's businesses are very much intertwined with the Chinese state, and that's increasing
  • Reply 40 of 41
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    AppleZulu said:
    entropys said:
    lkrupp said:
    fred1 said:
    This is nuts. Companies don’t have the right to include or not any accessories with their products? Or to decide what their warranty covers? What’s next, the state determining prices?
    Be careful what you talk about. Price controls are the first step to a centrally managed economy and I’m positive they are being discussed and promoted by people like AOC. Remember the Soviet Union's ‘Five Year Plans’ that always failed?  
    Remember China's 5 year plans -- that always seem to succeed, pulled hundreds of millions out of poverty, and will soon let it overtake the U.S. as world's leading economy?

    The ideological viewpoint is that capitalism is always better than socialism (or vice-versa)
    The reality based viewpoint is that right things tend to happen to those who do the right things -- it doesn't care about ideology.

    Personally, I prefer reality


    China’s five year plans worked as well as the soviets until they adopted aspects of capitalism, allowing corporations and businesses to exist rather than everything owned by the State, but the businesses are still under state control.  What Mussolini called fascism, not the kind that the Antifa kiddies rail about.

    True -- except for the part about their corporations are controlled by the state.
    Theirs are no more controlled by the state than are ours -- despite Trump's fabrications.

    But, I'm not sure how you worked antifa into all that - and especially how you equated an anti-fascism group with fascism!   Just the obsessive hate and racism I guess.
    Yeah, no. China's businesses are very much intertwined with the Chinese state, and that's increasing

    No more so than American companies are.

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