Apple debuts colorful 24-inch iMac with M1, upgraded camera and audio

1910111315

Comments

  • Reply 241 of 283
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,905member
    These are absolutely STUNNING!!

    I was floored by the design!!!

    Do you complainers prefer to go back to the old design? Both have a chin except this new one is smaller. You guys act as if Apple ADDED a chin.

    I also read someone say “it’s just a giant iPad” which gave me PTSD from the “it’s just a giant iPod touch” days of iPad. This reminds me that people will complain until they learn to appreciate it.
    Fidonet127watto_cobraDetnatordocno42
  • Reply 242 of 283
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,905member
    mario said:
    Headphone jack is located on the side on the desktop computer???? Who wants speaker cable dangling from the side all the time going to external powered speakers, instead of neatly tucked behind the screen and out of sight?

    Headphone jack is located on the back of the computer?!! Imagine the trouble of blindly trying to plug the cable into the tiny hole??! We have to GET UP from our seats and walk begins our computers just to plug in headphones?? Put it where we can SEE Apple!!!!


    ^^ see how that works?
    docno42
  • Reply 243 of 283
    Zeebler said:
    My 8 year old son asked if there were any boy computers...
    Even he has enough color theory sense to see this pastel / grey flop for what it is.

    These give the rainbow toilet seat laptops a run for the title of 'Ugliest Apple Product Ever'.
    I knew a troll would eventual take the color pallet and make a sexist or homophobic comment but I didn't know which one they would go with. Apparently it was sexism. Trolls have just become so lazy and predictable. 
    Yeah, sadly, it’s a “men should act like men” male stereotype raising yet another male stereotype. 

    His son’s “colour sense” was manufactured. Since when did colour have a gender identity? No wonder we have so many people who don’t think they fit the mould they are supposed to.
    BeatsMephisdogoleswatto_cobra
  • Reply 244 of 283
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,905member
    Dibiase said:
    I love everything about it except....once again, Apple is being so stingy with the storage.  256GB for a desktop computer is almost insulting.  For $1300, 512GB should have been the minimum and I wish I didn't keep having this complaint every time there's a big refresh in the Mac product line.  A disappointing skimp on what looks like a really nice update.

    I too wish the chin was totally gone, but I suppose we just aren't there yet.
    I've been holding off for years waiting for Apple to release an updated iMac with reasonable SSD storage capacities.  I guess I have to keep waiting.  My $500 Xbox series X came with a 1TB SSD.  Come on apple.

    Did your Xbox come with a TV screen and a desktop computer??
    Mephisdogoleswatto_cobra
  • Reply 245 of 283
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,905member
    crowley said:
    I’d just like to point out one thing no one seems to have mentioned yet.

    Does this new iMac have a battery? Because... MagSafe. Tripping over the cord and having it disconnect has consequences if there’s no battery.
    So tuck the cord away?  It's a desktop computer, you shouldn't have the power cord out somewhere it can be tripped over, MagSafe or not.  Tripping over a non-MagSafe cord probably has consequences too, if it sends your iMac crashing to the floor.

    I don’t think it needs a large battery but something that lasts maybe 15 minutes would be nice. When disconnected the screen can display a warning like
    ”Your iMac power cord has been disconnected. Please connect to avoid losing your data”

    The prompt could disable your computer until you reconnect.

    I too was a bit worried about the possibilities. A cat running by, a cat tugging the cord, a kid playing etc.

    With all that said, does the M1 chip currupt data when disconnected like a regular PC would? If not this is a non-issue. Maybe Apple can add auto-save when a cable is disconnected, power goes out etc.
    watto_cobradocno42
  • Reply 246 of 283
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,905member
    Zeebler said:
    My 8 year old son asked if there were any boy computers...
    Even he has enough color theory sense to see this pastel / grey flop for what it is.

    These give the rainbow toilet seat laptops a run for the title of 'Ugliest Apple Product Ever'.

    Tell your son to suck on a lemon.


    Mephisdogoleswatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 247 of 283
    So we’re talking about adding a non-serviceable battery to a computer that doesn’t have the room for a battery, at the same time people are complaining about the chin? Yet we have no idea how hard it will be to disconnect the power supply?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 248 of 283
    So we’re talking about adding a non-serviceable battery to a computer that doesn’t have the room for a battery, at the same time people are complaining about the chin? Yet we have no idea how hard it will be to disconnect the power supply?
    Are you suggesting we don’t offer criticism and  demand changes to resolve problems that are speculative and may not exist? I’d like to know what you suggest as an alternative, informed discussion? That’s just lunacy on your part. 
    edited April 2021
  • Reply 249 of 283
    So we’re talking about adding a non-serviceable battery to a computer that doesn’t have the room for a battery, at the same time people are complaining about the chin? Yet we have no idea how hard it will be to disconnect the power supply?
    The disconnection of the power cord is a valid concern given the available information. It’s also an issue independent of any design critiques people have, a critique I haven’t voiced.

    You are aware people can have questions about design choices, right? And if the cord question does become an issue, I’d say adding a safeguard to prevent the computer from just shutting down would be prudent.
    edited April 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 250 of 283
    So we’re talking about adding a non-serviceable battery to a computer that doesn’t have the room for a battery, at the same time people are complaining about the chin? Yet we have no idea how hard it will be to disconnect the power supply?
    The disconnection of the power cord is a valid concern given the available information. It’s also an issue independent of any design critiques people have, a critique I haven’t voiced.

    You are aware people can have questions about design choices, right? And if the cord question does become an issue, I’d say adding a safeguard to prevent the computer from just shutting down would be prudent.
    These are not questions. They are criticisms with questionable answers by people who are not designers. Do you have a problem with questioning the questioners? 

    The solution of adding a battery is not prudent. The area of the magnet is larger than the used on the laptop solutions. This likely means the pull of the magnet will be stronger and thus less likely to disconnect. Being it is a desktop computer, you could Velcro or zip tie the power cord to the stand or the computer or both, if you so desired.

      Let’s go on to the so called prudent solution of adding a battery. As I alluded to, where is the battery and associated electronics going to reside when people want to get rid of the chin? How much money are you willing to pay for this added battery? Do you think Apple is going to add a cover to allow for regular users to change the battery? What happens at the end of the life of the battery? Are you aware adding a battery and associated electronics increases the energy the computer uses? What happens if the battery expands as some batteries do. Adding a battery also makes it harder to recycle the computer.  What about added heat? What about the added environmental cost of additional material and fuel to ship it? Remember Apple deals with millions of computers. 

    I like that desktops do not have a built in battery to keep it running. One less thing to fail. 
    edited April 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 251 of 283
    For people wondering why the new low end iMacs didn’t come in at previous generation’s lower price point, it's kinda typical for Apple to reset the price with a major redesign. 

    iMac G3 started at $1299 
    iMac G4 started at $1299
    iMac G5 started at $1299
    iMac Intel stated at $1299
    iMac Intel AL started at $1199
    iMac Intel AL thin at  $1299

    With the exception of the G4 each one went down in price over it's lifetime and then with a single exception the price went back to 1299 with the next redesign. The G4 iMacs were a little weird because they had the eMac come out which took the place of low end iMac. So there shouldn't be much surprise  when it comes to the price tag, it’s been remarkably consistent. Also, if you adjust for inflation the iMacs today cost about half as much as the original G3.
    This makes some sense.  My only issue with this one compared to previous redesigns is that you didn't step backwards in functionality outside of when they finally ditched the optical drive with the last version of the Intel aluminum one.  Before, the iMac either kept the same number or even added USB, Thunderbolt or Firewire ports.  It kept ethernet as a standard option, not a configurable one for more money.  And the only differentiator in the $1299 one and the same size ones that were more expensive were things like more memory, larger HDD or SSD, or a faster processor.  The entry level one didn't lack any features or functionality that the upgraded one had - it just had a slower processor, integrated graphics instead of discrete ones, less RAM, less storage space.  

    But with this one, they did return to the $1299 entry price but regressed on these kinds of things - just two thunderbolt ports, no ethernet.  It doesn't come with the Touch ID keyboard.  It's just, to me, a step backwards in terms how Apple has handled these redesign transitions in the past.  
    To me, dropping legacy ports seems totally inline with what has happened in the past, Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt 1+2, USB 1+2, dial-up modems, IR sensors, VGA/Various display ports were all in the iMac at one point but were dropped  (IR got dropped twice!) as the product moved forward. This one has USB 4 and Thunderbolt 3 so while they reduced the number of ports they at least progressed the technology. 

    As far as the entry level one simply being differentiated by processor, graphics and ram and storage, that isn't correct. When Apple introduced the iMac DV it had a DVD ROM, Firewire and a VGA port that the entry level iMac introduced at the same time didn't have. Similarly when the CD-RW and Superdrive were announced, those features weren't options for the entry level. There may be other examples but I'm not going to look through the entire history of iMacs. 

    In the end it is all kind of subjective, when the iMac first came out there were wildly different thoughts on it only having USB and ditching the floppy. Over the two decades of it's of its existence there has always been pretty strong and disagreeing opinions when Apple has updated the product. So there is no reason to think this round would be any different. When it comes to thinking this is a step backward, that's totally your prerogative and while I disagree I see where you are coming form and respect that opinion. Hat to Apple for keeping it consistently controversial. 


    But in this case, they didn't drop legacy ports.  They just gave you fewer ports, period.  The mid and upper level versions give you four, the $1299 gives you two.  That's not something they'd done in the past.


    They dropped the USB Type A ports from the previous models = Dropped legacy ports. The new models have USB 4 which wasn't present on the previous models. So all the new models support USB 4 while the older models didn't.

    When the slot loaded iMacs were first announced the intro level had two USB ports, the mid tier was the iMac DV and had two USB ports, two Firewire 400 ports and a VGA port, the iMac DV SE two USB ports, two Firewire 400 ports, a VGA port and a DVD ROM. So they have had two ports on the low end and five on the mid and high end before. 

    This time is slightly different, while the low end machine has fewer ports it at least has the faster ports unlike the slot loaded iMac which had the slower of the four ports. 
    But when the dropped a legacy port, they replaced it with whatever the more current version was.  You ended up with the same number of ports in the end.  Or really close to it. With this one you're going from six overall ports (seven if you count the SD card reader) to two.

    From the last G3 iMac to the last 21.5" iMac "thin" aluminum, you had at least 4 ports even on the lowest model:

    Last G3:  2 USB-1, 2 Firewire 400 (4 total)
    First G4:  3 USB-1, 2 FW 400 (5 total)
    First G5:  3 USB-1, 2 FW 400 (5 total)
    First Core Duo:  3 USB, 2 FW 400 (5 total)
    First 20" Alum.:  3 USB, 1 FW 400, 1 FW 800 (5 total)
    First 21.5" Alum.: 4 USB 2.0, 1 FW 800 (5 total)
    First "thin" 21.5" Alum.:  4 USB 3.0 (4 total)

    And all of the above had ethernet for no extra cost.  And somewhere around the Core Duo stage also had an SD slot

    But now for the lowest model you get no ethernet unless you pay extra, no SD slot, and just 2 Thunderbolt/USB 4 ports.

    That's what I'm getting at.  This is a big difference from past patterns.


    Okay I see what you are saying, that wasn't total clear when you said; "The mid and upper level versions give you four, the $1299 gives you two. That's not something they'd done in the past." It sounded like you saying there had never been a difference between the tiers of a new model. 

    I concede that that the new iMac has fewer ports than the previous iMac and that is new. I still disagree that it's a big deal, but that's okay. 

    It just feels like when you drop $1300 on a desktop computer, it shouldn't almost require you to go out and buy a Thunderbolt hub.  The two extra ports wouldn't have killed them to keep on the base model.  It comes off as chintzy, which is odd given that Apple is a premium brand.
    canukstorm
  • Reply 252 of 283
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 778member
    crowley said:
    elijahg said:
    stuartf said:
    elijahg said:
     It also has no Ethernet port at all on the base model, 

    The specs say the base model has Ethernet as a configurable option. It's probably as simple as swapping the power supply!
    That's a good point, I/we have no idea yet how many pins are in the power supply. Would be cool if it had USB C such that you could plug things in to the hidden power supply brick, would keep things tidy. Otherwise the case would need to be different for each config. I'd prefer a USB socket on the side too for things like memory sticks, and a SD card reader would be good too, dunno why they got rid of that. I use mine regularly.
    Get a dock...
    You mean a hub.  An iMac cannot be docked.
    What's your definition of a dock?  It has TB3/USB4.  Why couldn't you plug in a TB3 dock?  The iMac might not be powered by the dock, but it's still a dock!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 253 of 283
    So we’re talking about adding a non-serviceable battery to a computer that doesn’t have the room for a battery, at the same time people are complaining about the chin? Yet we have no idea how hard it will be to disconnect the power supply?
    The disconnection of the power cord is a valid concern given the available information. It’s also an issue independent of any design critiques people have, a critique I haven’t voiced.

    You are aware people can have questions about design choices, right? And if the cord question does become an issue, I’d say adding a safeguard to prevent the computer from just shutting down would be prudent.
    These are not questions. They are criticisms with questionable answers by people who are not designers. Do you have a problem with questioning the questioners? 

    The solution of adding a battery is not prudent. The area of the magnet is larger than the used on the laptop solutions. This likely means the pull of the magnet will be stronger and thus less likely to disconnect. Being it is a desktop computer, you could Velcro or zip tie the power cord to the stand or the computer or both, if you so desired.

      Let’s go on to the so called prudent solution of adding a battery. As I alluded to, where is the battery and associated electronics going to reside when people want to get rid of the chin? How much money are you willing to pay for this added battery? Do you think Apple is going to add a cover to allow for regular users to change the battery? What happens at the end of the life of the battery? Are you aware adding a battery and associated electronics increases the energy the computer uses? What happens if the battery expands as some batteries do. Adding a battery also makes it harder to recycle the computer.  What about added heat? What about the added environmental cost of additional material and fuel to ship it? Remember Apple deals with millions of computers. 

    I like that desktops do not have a built in battery to keep it running. One less thing to fail. 
    I never suggested a battery is the solution. I asked if there was a battery in case the cord gets dislodged due to the design. My concern was with the thought behind using a magnet  for connecting the cord, which may lead to an increased likelihood of it being dislodged. I was questioning the design choice.

    So, what is the advantage of a magnetic connector? If it’s to prevent the computer from being pulled off the desk, then what safeguard is in place to prevent a suddenly loss of power and thus potentially work? My comment about being prudent was about whether or not the designers thought about how to prevent loss of work should the iMac lose power due to the dislodging of the cord. It wasn’t a specific comment about whether a battery should be used.

    That’s the thought process and question. 
    edited April 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 254 of 283
    Just because the power supply is magnetic, does not mean it can be easily detached. All I can find on Apple’s page about the new iMac is the power supply is easily attached. Did the keynote say the power supply is mag safe, or to prevent the computer from crashing down? Again the area of the magnet is larger and thus should be harder to detach. There is nothing on Apple’s webpages that there is a battery meant to prevent power loss. They could have enough capacitors to prevent power loss for a brief period. Apple doesn’t detail what the advantage of the magnet attachment is, other than easily attached. The magnet could simply be to ensure proper alignment. 
    watto_cobradocno42
  • Reply 255 of 283
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 778member
    nht said:
    frantisek said:
    It is interesting to see that m1 supports 4 USB-C ports. So on laptop side it was simple cost/ reason.
    I assume those are burned on the keyboard and trackpad.
    Additional USB-C ports does not indicate additional USB-C busses (which is what everyone is assuming).  The additional ports could be on a built-in USB-C hub, and share the bandwidth with one or more of the other ports.

    M1 MacBook Air built-in keyboard/trackpad are on the SPI bus (not USB).  Many non-Apple Intel laptops are this way, also.

    For the Intel MacBooks with TouchID, the built-in keyboard/trackpad are on the T2 chip USB bus.
    edited April 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 256 of 283
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 778member
    I think the new iMacs are awesome!
    16 GB of RAM and 2 TB of SSD is excellent for most folks.
    I will wait for a 30 inch iMac with 32 GB of RAM and the 2TB SSD.  (need to run VMs)

    I am curious to see how the iMac is connected to the stand.  It appears that there are 2 magnetic pins that go from the stand into the 24" iMac.
    The iMac motherboard is amazingly small and yet has empty space for more surface mounted electronic devices.
    You are aware that you can only run ARM64 VMs, right?  No Intel based VMs on a M1 based Mac. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 257 of 283
    For people wondering why the new low end iMacs didn’t come in at previous generation’s lower price point, it's kinda typical for Apple to reset the price with a major redesign. 

    iMac G3 started at $1299 
    iMac G4 started at $1299
    iMac G5 started at $1299
    iMac Intel stated at $1299
    iMac Intel AL started at $1199
    iMac Intel AL thin at  $1299

    With the exception of the G4 each one went down in price over it's lifetime and then with a single exception the price went back to 1299 with the next redesign. The G4 iMacs were a little weird because they had the eMac come out which took the place of low end iMac. So there shouldn't be much surprise  when it comes to the price tag, it’s been remarkably consistent. Also, if you adjust for inflation the iMacs today cost about half as much as the original G3.
    This makes some sense.  My only issue with this one compared to previous redesigns is that you didn't step backwards in functionality outside of when they finally ditched the optical drive with the last version of the Intel aluminum one.  Before, the iMac either kept the same number or even added USB, Thunderbolt or Firewire ports.  It kept ethernet as a standard option, not a configurable one for more money.  And the only differentiator in the $1299 one and the same size ones that were more expensive were things like more memory, larger HDD or SSD, or a faster processor.  The entry level one didn't lack any features or functionality that the upgraded one had - it just had a slower processor, integrated graphics instead of discrete ones, less RAM, less storage space.  

    But with this one, they did return to the $1299 entry price but regressed on these kinds of things - just two thunderbolt ports, no ethernet.  It doesn't come with the Touch ID keyboard.  It's just, to me, a step backwards in terms how Apple has handled these redesign transitions in the past.  
    To me, dropping legacy ports seems totally inline with what has happened in the past, Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt 1+2, USB 1+2, dial-up modems, IR sensors, VGA/Various display ports were all in the iMac at one point but were dropped  (IR got dropped twice!) as the product moved forward. This one has USB 4 and Thunderbolt 3 so while they reduced the number of ports they at least progressed the technology. 

    As far as the entry level one simply being differentiated by processor, graphics and ram and storage, that isn't correct. When Apple introduced the iMac DV it had a DVD ROM, Firewire and a VGA port that the entry level iMac introduced at the same time didn't have. Similarly when the CD-RW and Superdrive were announced, those features weren't options for the entry level. There may be other examples but I'm not going to look through the entire history of iMacs. 

    In the end it is all kind of subjective, when the iMac first came out there were wildly different thoughts on it only having USB and ditching the floppy. Over the two decades of it's of its existence there has always been pretty strong and disagreeing opinions when Apple has updated the product. So there is no reason to think this round would be any different. When it comes to thinking this is a step backward, that's totally your prerogative and while I disagree I see where you are coming form and respect that opinion. Hat to Apple for keeping it consistently controversial. 


    But in this case, they didn't drop legacy ports.  They just gave you fewer ports, period.  The mid and upper level versions give you four, the $1299 gives you two.  That's not something they'd done in the past.


    They dropped the USB Type A ports from the previous models = Dropped legacy ports. The new models have USB 4 which wasn't present on the previous models. So all the new models support USB 4 while the older models didn't.

    When the slot loaded iMacs were first announced the intro level had two USB ports, the mid tier was the iMac DV and had two USB ports, two Firewire 400 ports and a VGA port, the iMac DV SE two USB ports, two Firewire 400 ports, a VGA port and a DVD ROM. So they have had two ports on the low end and five on the mid and high end before. 

    This time is slightly different, while the low end machine has fewer ports it at least has the faster ports unlike the slot loaded iMac which had the slower of the four ports. 
    But when the dropped a legacy port, they replaced it with whatever the more current version was.  You ended up with the same number of ports in the end.  Or really close to it. With this one you're going from six overall ports (seven if you count the SD card reader) to two.

    From the last G3 iMac to the last 21.5" iMac "thin" aluminum, you had at least 4 ports even on the lowest model:

    Last G3:  2 USB-1, 2 Firewire 400 (4 total)
    First G4:  3 USB-1, 2 FW 400 (5 total)
    First G5:  3 USB-1, 2 FW 400 (5 total)
    First Core Duo:  3 USB, 2 FW 400 (5 total)
    First 20" Alum.:  3 USB, 1 FW 400, 1 FW 800 (5 total)
    First 21.5" Alum.: 4 USB 2.0, 1 FW 800 (5 total)
    First "thin" 21.5" Alum.:  4 USB 3.0 (4 total)

    And all of the above had ethernet for no extra cost.  And somewhere around the Core Duo stage also had an SD slot

    But now for the lowest model you get no ethernet unless you pay extra, no SD slot, and just 2 Thunderbolt/USB 4 ports.

    That's what I'm getting at.  This is a big difference from past patterns.


    Okay I see what you are saying, that wasn't total clear when you said; "The mid and upper level versions give you four, the $1299 gives you two. That's not something they'd done in the past." It sounded like you saying there had never been a difference between the tiers of a new model. 

    I concede that that the new iMac has fewer ports than the previous iMac and that is new. I still disagree that it's a big deal, but that's okay. 

    It just feels like when you drop $1300 on a desktop computer, it shouldn't almost require you to go out and buy a Thunderbolt hub.  The two extra ports wouldn't have killed them to keep on the base model.  It comes off as chintzy, which is odd given that Apple is a premium brand.
    I have said I understand and respect your criticism but just happen to disagree with it. I’m not trying to change your mind in the slightest. You really seem bothered that someone simply doesn’t share your opinion. 
  • Reply 258 of 283
    Just because the power supply is magnetic, does not mean it can be easily detached. All I can find on Apple’s page about the new iMac is the power supply is easily attached. Did the keynote say the power supply is mag safe, or to prevent the computer from crashing down? Again the area of the magnet is larger and thus should be harder to detach. There is nothing on Apple’s webpages that there is a battery meant to prevent power loss. They could have enough capacitors to prevent power loss for a brief period. Apple doesn’t detail what the advantage of the magnet attachment is, other than easily attached. The magnet could simply be to ensure proper alignment. 
    This! People seem to be overlooking the fact that magnets differing levels of magnetic force to the extent that they can be impossible to separate by hand. The XDR display uses magnets to hold the display to the stand and you don’t see stories of people or pets accidentally bumping them lose.  People are assuming it will be like MagSafe which was designed to easily detach rather than something more appropriate for a desktop. It’s a totally misguided assumption. Apple can easily design something that offers the same level of secure for as the  previous solution. 
  • Reply 259 of 283
    titantiger said:
    It just feels like when you drop $1300 on a desktop computer, it shouldn't almost require you to go out and buy a Thunderbolt hub.  The two extra ports wouldn't have killed them to keep on the base model.  It comes off as chintzy, which is odd given that Apple is a premium brand.

    Apple might be a premium brand, but since when does that extol any special virtue? A good example of this is Porsche: they, too, have a number of offerings in the premium market segment, but if their customers want the full-fat experience, then they have to be prepared to pay (*really* pay) for the upgrades. Far from being cheap, this is a deliberate marketing and pricing strategy to differentiate the products on offer across the range, and it is this that helps both companies to retain the allure and resale value of their brand (as is their prerogative).

    And they are right to do so. If you can afford to buy their product in the first place, don’t be such a skinflint when it comes to the upgrade. It’s £200 (or an approx. 16 per cent price increase between the base and mid-level models) –– and included in that price, in addition to the 2.00 x TB3 ports –– is Gigabit ethernet and an extra GPU core. Where you see a cheapening of the base product, I see a budget-conscious sales proposition versus a good value-for-money upgrade path for those who need more than what the base unit offers. [Hint: most consumers only want the extras.]

    Let me put it this way, a Key Account Manager should have no problem whatsoever selling the base model by the lorryload, especially to educational institutions (such as schools and universities, public libraries, and the like); for students buying privately, too, the base model is more than sufficient for most needs given the possibility of daisy-chaining Thunderbolt when and/or if needed. Besides which, most students are likely to be wireless these days, anyway. In other words, this is a very good option for most of them, even if it might not be the right option for the typical user profile on fora such as this one.

    edited April 2021 watto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 260 of 283
    ^ That’s a reply to the earlier post by “Titantiger”.
    watto_cobra
Sign In or Register to comment.