So Apple in not allowed to manufacture or compete with anything thats already being manufactured and marketed by other entities? and that is pro competition ???? This pure Horse SH——-!
Soooo... does that mean Apple cannot introduce any products that compete with existing ones. Doesn’t that give existing manufacturers an anticompetitive edge?
I just keep thinking that Tile has been around for years and a minuscule number of consumers own them. That seems to be a major missed opportunity on their part. Apple will probably sell more Air Tags than Tile has ever sold in just the first 12 hours and somehow that's anti-competitive. Sorry kiddos. You had a huge head start and still couldn't make your product the de facto standard.
So, for that statement to be true. Apple have to sell by 5:00 P.M. on 4.23 more than 25M AirTags. You should research your statements before writing stuff like that. Don’t get me wrong I will buy 12 myself but common be realistic. Do they will get to 25M sure eventually this is a first party accessory perfect for the sacred walled garden but not in the first 12 hours...
Soooo... does that mean Apple cannot introduce any products that compete with existing ones. Doesn’t that give existing manufacturers an anticompetitive edge?
I just keep thinking that Tile has been around for years and a minuscule number of consumers own them. That seems to be a major missed opportunity on their part. Apple will probably sell more Air Tags than Tile has ever sold in just the first 12 hours and somehow that's anti-competitive. Sorry kiddos. You had a huge head start and still couldn't make your product the de facto standard.
Right. How many non-techies do you know that could tell you what Tile is? When your company’s consumer-oriented product has been on the market for as long as Tile and most people don’t know what it is it doesn’t bode well for the future of your company. That doesn’t have anything to do with competitors.
By the way, even among my “techie” friends, I know very few that use Tile at all.
I’ve never seen anyone with a Tile and I worked in The Valley for 3 years. I’m all for fair competition but Apple shouldn’t be guilty of building up an ecosystem that people prefer. Fine, investigate and if there is any true anticompetitive behavior then do something, but it’s not anticompetitive simply to come out with a competing product 8 years later.
Funny thing is ATs have likely been in development for a couple years, so there is actually nothing suspect about the timing. The framework is in place and competitors can use it today.
I use tiles and will be switching to airtags. Tiles are good, not great. There has been minimal improvement over the years and the app is very basic and provides no real guidance other than sound. Tile was clearly happy to do a minimum amount of innovation even though airtags have been on their radar for years. The ability to leverage the entire Apple ecosystem to locate a lost tag is feature that tile cannot match. While tile does have a similar feature it requires another tile to be in range of your lost tile, and you can figure the chances of that. The one thing that is missing from airtags is the ability to locate your phone from the tile. This works via bluetooth and is very effective. Much easier than locating from "find my".
Same. Competition is GOOD for the consumer. What Tile wants is no competition. Dumbasses
The big difference I see is that AirTags use UWB and Tile uses WAH!
Tile is already working on a Tile with UWB. The major difference between Tile and AirTag is the access to the iPhone’s Bluetooth.
It's great that they're woking on it. I'm sure it will be great once it launches and will be a good competitor Samsung on Android devices which at least came out with a price and release date attached.
Apple: third-party tracker device Find My support FIRST; then introduce own tracker device product using same platform after some time. That’s not anticompetitive, rather, that’s giving the advantage to competitors AND leveling the playing field in the future.
Nothing stoped competing products from creating their own apps to find their tags. In fact, they did just that.
Sure, but Apple gets a couple of large advantages when deciding to compete in this market:
1) Both vendors depend on a network of devices to find the tags if they're missing... Tile tags are only searched for by other Tile-owning customers running the same app. Same for other vendors... as long as you don't have a lot of customers, the use will be limited. Apple gets to use all iPhones by default
2) For detection etc to work for Tile, the users need to run an app in the background. Not only will this probably use a bit more battery etc. than Apple's implementation which will be at the OS level, but Tile's app will also have nag the users about using the location in the background on a regular basis. No such need for Apple's competing, newly launched product.
I'm obviously not saying that to avoid this, any vendor should be able to run whatever they want in the background and gather data so as to reduce friction with customers - or that any vendor should be able to get their software included in the OS on every iPhone. I'm just pointing out that this - the ability to gain a huge advantage in a new market due to a market position in a different market - is problematic.
I don't have a good solution either.
#2 makes no sense. Once you answer the initial request to use location while using the app or Always, there’s no nagging. Do you not know how that works and we’re on iOS 14/iPadOS 14?
I have read all the comments on this thread, and I feel that, so far they miss the point.
Why Apple is guilty of anticompetitive behavior is that, as far as I know, have not approached Tile to license their product idea. This is something that Apple has done many times over the years, and we are all aware of it.
I am not opposed to Apple releasing a product like AirTag but I do think they should pay a fee to Tile for doing the hard work of developing an entirely new product and pushing it into the market place first.
Apple should look after the people and companies that function within their ecosystem, and operate with the high moral standards they like to talk about in the media. I am not saying they can’t compete, but at least acknowledge where the ideas come from and reward those involved.
Nothing stoped competing products from creating their own apps to find their tags. In fact, they did just that.
Sure, but Apple gets a couple of large advantages when deciding to compete in this market:
1) Both vendors depend on a network of devices to find the tags if they're missing... Tile tags are only searched for by other Tile-owning customers running the same app. Same for other vendors... as long as you don't have a lot of customers, the use will be limited. Apple gets to use all iPhones by default
2) For detection etc to work for Tile, the users need to run an app in the background. Not only will this probably use a bit more battery etc. than Apple's implementation which will be at the OS level, but Tile's app will also have nag the users about using the location in the background on a regular basis. No such need for Apple's competing, newly launched product.
I'm obviously not saying that to avoid this, any vendor should be able to run whatever they want in the background and gather data so as to reduce friction with customers - or that any vendor should be able to get their software included in the OS on every iPhone. I'm just pointing out that this - the ability to gain a huge advantage in a new market due to a market position in a different market - is problematic.
I don't have a good solution either.
#2 makes no sense. Once you answer the initial request to use location while using the app or Always, there’s no nagging. Do you not know how that works and we’re on iOS 14/iPadOS 14?
Dude before saying that something makes no sense how about research it first. It doesn’t matter if you toggle the location setting to ALWAYS once you killed the app meaning no running in the background then Tile becomes useless because they can’t access bluetooth. As soon as you kill the app from running you a get notification like this:
“Tile is disabled and not running. Open the Tile app to keep track of your items.”
It is such a ridiculous, bad faith move to lump Apple in with Google, Facebook, and Amazon when it comes to anti-trust issues. Yes, Apple is a successful company, but that doesn't immediately or inherently make them evil. Simply being at the top of your industry doesn't make you bad. It's what you do with your power, AND what you did to get to the top that needs to be investigated and regulated. Apple is primarily a hardware company. Their software and services exist to support their hardware. None of Apple's hardware, software, or services have any monopoly status or power. Now, within Apple's ecosystem, they have power, but that ecosystem is a microcosm in a much larger industry. Apple has control over how their software and services interact with their hardware, but that really has no impact outside of their ecosystem. What power Apple has over their ecosystem they use primarily to support and protect their customers, and frankly, the industry as well. Google is an internet services company; Facebook is a social media platform; Amazon is a marketplace. Each of these companies absolutely dominate the way we access information on the internet, how we interact with each other, and how we access goods and services. Each of them use this dominant position to exploit users: they monitor our activity, they gather detailed information about us, they push out smaller companies; all in the service of their own profit and power. Each of them plays fast and loose with our data and private information, and they can, because they have no peers or competition; they barely have any government oversight. So, yes, the governments of the world need to take a close look at these companies and hold them accountable to use their power responsibly, but leave Apple out of these anti-trust investigations. They are NOT the same as Google, Facebook, or Amazon.
I have read all the comments on this thread, and I feel that, so far they miss the point.
Why Apple is guilty of anticompetitive behavior is that, as far as I know, have not approached Tile to license their product idea. This is something that Apple has done many times over the years, and we are all aware of it.
I am not opposed to Apple releasing a product like AirTag but I do think they should pay a fee to Tile for doing the hard work of developing an entirely new product and pushing it into the market place first.
Apple should look after the people and companies that function within their ecosystem, and operate with the high moral standards they like to talk about in the media. I am not saying they can’t compete, but at least acknowledge where the ideas come from and reward those involved.
That would be considered Patent Infringement, not Anticompetitive. Anticompetitive would be if Apple removed Tile’s App from the App Store and then revoked Tile’s Developers License.
Tile also has no grounds for patent infringement because they use totally different technologies. Apple Utilizes the U1 and UWB, while Tile uses Bluetooth. Apple can utilize the ecosystem they developed, to track missing items. Tile has a similar feature that uses other tiles. The major difference is that Tile’s prospective network can be the same if not larger that Apple’s Ecosystem, because Tile also works on Android. Imagine if everyone who owns an iPhone or Android phone also owned a single Tile.
Tile’s lack of innovation, and poor marketing make them a niche product that only super techies or people who work in retailers that sell them, would actually know who Tile is and what their product is used for.
um ... so apple is not allowed to be anyone's competitor? Tile should enjoy a competition free race (I have not seen a Samsung one nor know anyone who has it).
So Apple in not allowed to manufacture or compete with anything thats already being manufactured and marketed by other entities? and that is pro competition ???? This pure Horse SH——-!
I like the idea behind tracking devices and I have no problem with seamless integration of them at an OS level.
If I had a compatible device I would be interested myself, so I have no problems with Tile, Apple of anyone else trying to make it a viable technological option.
But just as with all 'monopolies', the notion that the infrastructure provider can also produce products that make use of it is a prickly subject and requires a lot of thought.
Impeding access by third parties to that infrastructure is where Apple is probably going to feel the heat and I fully understand the need to look into the details.
Where Apple succeeds with AirTags is that the awareness is baked into iOS. Tile requires an app, and (as I understand it) that app has to be running. As Tile's market share is next-to nothing, Apple's version will immediately be of more use. My lost tag can be picked up anonymously by any late-model iPhone and nothing has to be done. That's huge.
If it works like I hope it does, I will be buying a 4-pack for sure.
I'm only guessing, but I think why Tile is having a hissy-fit is that Apple has the advantage of using any iPhone without an app in order to use it, whereas Tile does not get that privilege. I don't think it will hold up in court thought.
I find it ironic that Tile is complaining about having additional competition. Why isn't Tile complaining about Samsung's similar offering?
Tile doesn't have to use an app now - they have the same option to use Fine My... as the other 3rd parties are now doing. They'd rather cry, "unfair competition" instead of moving forward.
I believe the issues tile has with Apple is that they have closed off the U1 chip to competitors and tile’s own software is turned off by default and reminds users that they are being tracked where as ‘Findmy’ is turned on by default
Nope - Find My is not turned on by default. When setting up a new or reset/wiped device, when you log into iCloud, you are asked if you want to turn it on.
If the Government is going to say it is anti-completive for a Apple who makes a product (iPhone) where other companies make add on solutions and product (Tiles) to the main product (iPhone) and Apple can not also make a similar product to add on to the iPhone.
Then the US government needs to go after ever major car manufacture for making AL Mag wheels, they too step into a market where there were plenty of Mag Wheel companies in the market who made wheels for your car.
Keep in mind we do not have very bright people in government, most are useful idiot who do what others want done which they could not get done themselves through normal competition.
Comments
This pure Horse SH——-!
Why Apple is guilty of anticompetitive behavior is that, as far as I know, have not approached Tile to license their product idea. This is something that Apple has done many times over the years, and we are all aware of it.
I am not opposed to Apple releasing a product like AirTag but I do think they should pay a fee to Tile for doing the hard work of developing an entirely new product and pushing it into the market place first.
Apple should look after the people and companies that function within their ecosystem, and operate with the high moral standards they like to talk about in the media. I am not saying they can’t compete, but at least acknowledge where the ideas come from and reward those involved.
“Tile is disabled and not running. Open the Tile app to keep track of your items.”
Apple is primarily a hardware company. Their software and services exist to support their hardware. None of Apple's hardware, software, or services have any monopoly status or power. Now, within Apple's ecosystem, they have power, but that ecosystem is a microcosm in a much larger industry. Apple has control over how their software and services interact with their hardware, but that really has no impact outside of their ecosystem.
What power Apple has over their ecosystem they use primarily to support and protect their customers, and frankly, the industry as well.
Google is an internet services company; Facebook is a social media platform; Amazon is a marketplace. Each of these companies absolutely dominate the way we access information on the internet, how we interact with each other, and how we access goods and services. Each of them use this dominant position to exploit users: they monitor our activity, they gather detailed information about us, they push out smaller companies; all in the service of their own profit and power. Each of them plays fast and loose with our data and private information, and they can, because they have no peers or competition; they barely have any government oversight.
So, yes, the governments of the world need to take a close look at these companies and hold them accountable to use their power responsibly, but leave Apple out of these anti-trust investigations. They are NOT the same as Google, Facebook, or Amazon.
Tile also has no grounds for patent infringement because they use totally different technologies. Apple Utilizes the U1 and UWB, while Tile uses Bluetooth. Apple can utilize the ecosystem they developed, to track missing items. Tile has a similar feature that uses other tiles. The major difference is that Tile’s prospective network can be the same if not larger that Apple’s Ecosystem, because Tile also works on Android. Imagine if everyone who owns an iPhone or Android phone also owned a single Tile.
Tile’s lack of innovation, and poor marketing make them a niche product that only super techies or people who work in retailers that sell them, would actually know who Tile is and what their product is used for.
If I had a compatible device I would be interested myself, so I have no problems with Tile, Apple of anyone else trying to make it a viable technological option.
But just as with all 'monopolies', the notion that the infrastructure provider can also produce products that make use of it is a prickly subject and requires a lot of thought.
Impeding access by third parties to that infrastructure is where Apple is probably going to feel the heat and I fully understand the need to look into the details.
Nope - Find My is not turned on by default. When setting up a new or reset/wiped device, when you log into iCloud, you are asked if you want to turn it on.
Then the US government needs to go after ever major car manufacture for making AL Mag wheels, they too step into a market where there were plenty of Mag Wheel companies in the market who made wheels for your car.
Keep in mind we do not have very bright people in government, most are useful idiot who do what others want done which they could not get done themselves through normal competition.