Apple growing its own ad business as privacy changes limit rivals

AppleInsider · April 22, 2021 10:41AM

As App Tracking Transparency is about to affect the marketing industry, Apple is reportedly working to expand its own advertising business with new App Store ads.

App Store to gain more ads

All advertisers will be required to conform to Apple's App Tracking Transparency rules from April 26, 2021. However, Apple is believed to be expanding its own ad business at the same time.

According to the Financial Times, the App Store is to add a second advertising slot in its Suggested Apps section. Citing two unnamed sources, the publication says that this new slot is to be launched by the end of April.

It's reportedly going to enable advertisers to promote their apps directly to App Store users, rather than only being surfaced when a relevant search is made.

Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg has previously criticized Apple's App Tracking Transparency feature for being more about business interests than privacy.

"With the upcoming iOS 14 changes, many small businesses will no longer be able to reach their customers with targeted ads," he said in January 2021. "Now, Apple may say that they're doing this to help people, but the moves clearly track their competitive interests."

Apple declined to comment on the Financial Times report.

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crowley · April 22, 2021 11:45AM

Not a great look when you're being accused of anti-competitive behaviour all over the shop.

foregoneconclusion · April 22, 2021 12:17PM

Not sure what the point is supposed to be. Apple has to follow the same App Tracking Transparency rules as well, correct? So they're equally limited by that feature.

larryjw · April 22, 2021 12:30PM

foregoneconclusion said:

Not sure what the point is supposed to be. Apple has to follow the same App Tracking Transparency rules as well, correct? So they're equally limited by that feature.

Perhaps Apple will show the industry how to advertise without violating privacy.

CloudTalkin · April 22, 2021 12:50PM

foregoneconclusion said:

Not sure what the point is supposed to be. Apple has to follow the same App Tracking Transparency rules as well, correct? So they're equally limited by that feature.

In this instance, no they don't. Apple gets to circumvent App Tracking because -this is pretty clever imo, shady as hell, but clever nonetheless- Apple's ads wouldn't be associated with apps. Apple's new ads would be tied to the App Store and broadcast directly in the Suggested Apps section.

This would allow two ads to be surfaced. One ad related to what ever you search for in the App Store (this is already standard) and the new rumored ad would surface in a separate slot. The second ad wouldn't be tied to a search, simply paid placement.

People keep conflating Apple's promotion of App Tracking Transparency (a privacy focused project) with an incorrect assumption that Apple has an aversion to ads. Nothing could be further from the truth. Apple likes ad revenue just as much as the other guys. They've just never really been able to capitalize on it as well as the other guys... 'til now if this rumor comes to fruition.

larryjw said:

foregoneconclusion said:

Not sure what the point is supposed to be. Apple has to follow the same App Tracking Transparency rules as well, correct? So they're equally limited by that feature.

Perhaps Apple will show the industry how to advertise without violating privacy.

The only part of "tracking" Apple doesn't do when it comes to advertising is cross-site tracking - that's what ATT is all about. But targeted advertising - tracking based on searches, purchases, apps, age, gender, location, etc.? They do that and have for the longest time. Targeted advertising is on by default on Apple devices. The user has to disable it, in more than one location too. Most of us, generally speaking, don't want ads period. From Apple or anyone else.

foregoneconclusion · April 22, 2021 1:16PM

CloudTalkin said: In this instance, no they don't. Apple gets to circumvent App Tracking because -this is pretty clever imo, shady as hell, but clever nonetheless- Apple's ads wouldn't be associated with apps. Apple's new ads would be tied to the App Store and broadcast directly in the Suggested Apps section.

Apple specifically says that their ad platform doesn't do tracking. They say that they use 'contextual information' and 'segments' to serve adverts rather than personally identifiable data. Do you have info to provide that says otherwise?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205223

CloudTalkin · April 22, 2021 2:00PM

name, address, age, and devices registered to your Apple ID account. Information such as your first name in your Apple ID registration page or salutation in your Apple ID account may be used to derive your gender.
foregoneconclusion said:

CloudTalkin said: In this instance, no they don't. Apple gets to circumvent App Tracking because -this is pretty clever imo, shady as hell, but clever nonetheless- Apple's ads wouldn't be associated with apps. Apple's new ads would be tied to the App Store and broadcast directly in the Suggested Apps section.

Apple specifically says that their ad platform doesn't do tracking. They say that they use 'contextual information' and 'segments' to serve adverts rather than personally identifiable data. Do you have info to provide that says otherwise?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205223

I have read that link a number of times. I've even provided it on AI on several occasions as substantiating evidence of something I've claimed. To answer your question, I do have information that says otherwise. The exact same link you provided. I don't think you read it carefully enough.
Apple's definition of "track" is precisely worded:
Apple’s advertising platform does not track you, meaning that it does not link user or device data collected from our apps with user or device data collected from third parties for targeted advertising or advertising measurement purposes, and does not share user or device data with data brokers.  Apple's definition of tracked only means what's bolded. It does not mean they don't track.

The phrase 'contextual information' is a euphemism for tracking. If I said Google or Facebook uses the following information to track you there's no way you'd rationalize and call it using contextual information. You'd call it what it is; tracking.
The contextual info: keyboard language settings, device type, OS version, mobile carrier, and connection type, device location, app store searches, Apple News (stories you read) and Stocks.
Segments - broad spectrum tracking.  The information used to create segments: name, address, age, and devices registered to your Apple ID account. Information such as your first name in your Apple ID registration page or salutation in your Apple ID account may be used to derive your gender. Downloads, Purchases & Subscriptions. How you interact with ads.

Separately you have location based ads that take that contextual information tracking and segmentation broad tracking to serve ads. You may be wondering how you opt into location based ads. You do so by giving the App Store or Apple News access to your devices location. You don't do it by granting access directly for ads.

Everything I've claimed is in the supporting document you linked. So in the strictest sense, as defined by that document, Apple doesn't track you. But if you consider what they actually do to not be tracking, no argument I can make is gong to change your mind. Which is fine. Opinions differ. But I'd bet a considerable sum if I said Google and Facebook were doing the exact same thing (they 100% do btw)... I'd have your money and my money firmly in my pocket.

foregoneconclusion · April 22, 2021 2:19PM

CloudTalkin said: I don't think you read it carefully enough. Apple's definition of "track" is precisely worded: Apple’s advertising platform does not track you, meaning that it does not link user or device data collected from our apps with user or device data collected from third parties for targeted advertising or advertising measurement purposes, and does not share user or device data with data brokers. Apple's definition of tracked only means what's bolded. It does not mean they don't track.

What you bolded is what 3rd parties are complaining about not being able to do anymore without user consent, so obviously even if you personally want to label what Apple still allows as "tracking" that doesn't change the fact that it's inherently different from what 3rd parties preferred for "tracking".

CloudTalkin · April 22, 2021 2:40PM

foregoneconclusion said:

CloudTalkin said: I don't think you read it carefully enough. Apple's definition of "track" is precisely worded: Apple’s advertising platform does not track you, meaning that it does not link user or device data collected from our apps with user or device data collected from third parties for targeted advertising or advertising measurement purposes, and does not share user or device data with data brokers. Apple's definition of tracked only means what's bolded. It does not mean they don't track.

What you bolded is what 3rd parties are complaining about not being able to do anymore without user consent, so obviously even if you personally want to label what Apple still allows as "tracking" that doesn't change the fact that it's inherently different from what 3rd parties preferred for "tracking".

Kinda moving that goal post aren't you? You claimed, according to the support doc, Apple doesn't track. I claimed, according to the same support doc, Apple indeed does track. Now you're going to argue "that doesn't change the fact that it's inherently different..." Okay, when was that ever a point of contention? Apple tracks. Pretty much always have tracked. Moreover, they tell you they track. App Tracking Transparency is about 3rd party tracking. This topic and the subject of the article, is about 1st party tracking which Apple doesn't prohibit. Which is also what Apple will be reportedly taking advantage of with this new rumored ad scheme.

I'm not sure of your end game here. Are you actually disagreeing with my assessment of what that document says?

temperor · April 22, 2021 3:09PM

This is a desperate article trying to paint Apple as the monopolist and doing the same thing it is blocking others to do. Though these are 2 separate domains of advertisement. ATT is by the way not blocking anything, it is just asking user consent, period ...
If I do a google search in safari, I get targeted add's, that has nothing to do with tracking and is contextual ... Same as Apple is doing for the App store. But hey lots of Politicians are probably reading this and go oh wow, Apple is anticompetitive, we need to stop them. This is nothing more then shady journalism by FT or at least not well explained so that lots of people will come to the wrong conclusion, I do not know what is worse.

elijahg · April 22, 2021 3:10PM

CloudTalkin said:

foregoneconclusion said:

CloudTalkin said: I don't think you read it carefully enough. Apple's definition of "track" is precisely worded: Apple’s advertising platform does not track you, meaning that it does not link user or device data collected from our apps with user or device data collected from third parties for targeted advertising or advertising measurement purposes, and does not share user or device data with data brokers. Apple's definition of tracked only means what's bolded. It does not mean they don't track.

What you bolded is what 3rd parties are complaining about not being able to do anymore without user consent, so obviously even if you personally want to label what Apple still allows as "tracking" that doesn't change the fact that it's inherently different from what 3rd parties preferred for "tracking".

Kinda moving that goal post aren't you? You claimed, according to the support doc, Apple doesn't track. I claimed, according to the same support doc, Apple indeed does track. Now you're going to argue "that doesn't change the fact that it's inherently different..." Okay, when was that ever a point of contention? Apple tracks. Pretty much always have tracked. Moreover, they tell you they track. App Tracking Transparency is about 3rd party tracking. This topic and the subject of the article, is about 1st party tracking which Apple doesn't prohibit. Which is also what Apple will be reported taking advantage of with this new rumored ad scheme.

I'm not sure of your end game here. Are you actually disagreeing with my assessment of what that document says?

Your assessment is correct IMO. He's trying to claim Apple's better than third parties because it "doesn't track" when it in fact does, just with a different name. In Apple's privacy T&C's they state "Apple may share personal data with service providers who act on our behalf, our partners, or others at your direction. Further, Apple does not share personal data with third parties for their own marketing purposes." and "Others: Apple may share personal data with others at your direction or with your consent, such as when we share information with your carrier to activate your account. We may also disclose information about you if we determine that for purposes of national security, law enforcement, or other issues of public importance, disclosure is necessary or appropriate. We may also disclose information about you where there is a lawful basis for doing so, if we determine that disclosure is reasonably necessary to enforce our terms and conditions or to protect our operations or users, or in the event of a reorganization, merger, or sale."

So in other words Apple can share your personal data to "others" when they decide it is "reasonably necessary" to enforce their vast and onerous terms and conditions. This shows how carefully worded the advertising and privacy support page is, in that it says they "do not share user or device data with data brokers", and then elsewhere say they will share personal data when they feel like it, to whomever they want. Excluding only "data brokers" leaves an almost limitless number of companies they can share data with who aren't "data brokers".

foregoneconclusion · April 22, 2021 3:46PM

CloudTalkin said: I'm not sure of your end game here. Are you actually disagreeing with my assessment of what that document says?

LOL...your "assessment" consists of saying that you have a different definition of tracking than Apple. That isn't much of a point when you consider that the App Tracking Transparency issue that 3rd parties like Facebook are complaining about has nothing to do with what Apple still allows without consent. It's not the same issue, regardless of what your own personal definition for tracking is.

foregoneconclusion · April 22, 2021 3:54PM

So in other words Apple can share your personal data to "others" when they decide it is "reasonably necessary" to enforce their vast and onerous terms and conditions. This shows how carefully worded the advertising and privacy support page is, in that it says they "do not share user or device data with data brokers", and then elsewhere say they will share personal data when they feel like it, to whomever they want. Excluding only "data brokers" leaves an almost limitless number of companies they can share data with who aren't "data brokers".

In other words, you're just ignoring the phrases like "at your direction" and "at your consent".

Beats · April 22, 2021 4:03PM

I’d love Apple to enter the ad business outside the App Store.

CloudTalkin · April 22, 2021 4:17PM

foregoneconclusion said:

CloudTalkin said: I'm not sure of your end game here. Are you actually disagreeing with my assessment of what that document says?

LOL...your "assessment" consists of saying that you have a different definition of tracking than Apple. That isn't much of a point when you consider that the App Tracking Transparency issue that 3rd parties like Facebook are complaining about has nothing to do with what Apple still allows without consent. It's not the same issue, regardless of what your own personal definition for tracking is.

It's cool. You're not being tracked. You're simply being contextualized and segmented. LOL indeed.

foregoneconclusion · April 22, 2021 4:26PM

CloudTalkin said: It's cool. You're not being tracked. You're simply being contextualized and segmented. LOL indeed.

There's no "you" involved. Without consent, none of the information used for ad serving is personally identifiable.

elijahg · April 22, 2021 5:21PM

foregoneconclusion said:

So in other words Apple can share your personal data to "others" when they decide it is "reasonably necessary" to enforce their vast and onerous terms and conditions. This shows how carefully worded the advertising and privacy support page is, in that it says they "do not share user or device data with data brokers", and then elsewhere say they will share personal data when they feel like it, to whomever they want. Excluding only "data brokers" leaves an almost limitless number of companies they can share data with who aren't "data brokers".
In other words, you're just ignoring the phrases like "at your direction" and "at your consent".

I am not, that is there purely to make people think they will ask your consent. But the next clause which you are ignoring excepts pretty much everything from that, stating "We may also disclose information about you where there is a lawful basis for doing so, if we determine that disclosure is reasonably necessary to enforce our terms and conditions or to protect our operations or users, or in the event of a reorganization, merger, or sale". "May also" means they will share data if any of the following apply, and they do not need the customer's consent do so.

Don't get me wrong - Apple is 20x better than most companies for privacy. But don't think they don't share your data, they do.

lkrupp · April 22, 2021 6:39PM

foregoneconclusion said:

Not sure what the point is supposed to be. Apple has to follow the same App Tracking Transparency rules as well, correct? So they're equally limited by that feature.

Exactly. There’s nothing wrong with advertising as long as the consumer knows what is going on. And I for one would rather see ads based on my interests rather than random ads for everything under the sun that have nothing to do with me. As long as I have the choice to opt-out I’m okay.

crowley said:

Not a great look when you're being accused of anti-competitive behaviour all over the shop.

What are you talking about, not a great look? It looks just fine to those who understand what’s going on. Apple is NOT trying to block advertising, just make the user aware of it and give the user an option. The user can opt-out of Apple’s advertising too you know.

gatorguy · April 22, 2021 6:44PM

lkrupp said:

foregoneconclusion said:

Not sure what the point is supposed to be. Apple has to follow the same App Tracking Transparency rules as well, correct? So they're equally limited by that feature.

Exactly. There’s nothing wrong with advertising as long as the consumer knows what is going on. And I for one would rather see ads based on my interests rather than random ads for everything under the sun that have nothing to do with me. As long as I have the choice to opt-out I’m okay.

crowley said:

Not a great look when you're being accused of anti-competitive behaviour all over the shop.

What are you talking about, not a great look? It looks just fine to those who understand what’s going on. Apple is NOT trying to block advertising, just make the user aware of it and give the user an option. The user can opt-out of Apple’s advertising too you know.

Last I was aware you are automatically opted in with Apple and have to search for and make the active choice to opt-out. Just the opposite with outside parties from what I can tell. has there been a somewhat recent change?

CloudTalkin · April 22, 2021 7:28PM

lkrupp said:

foregoneconclusion said:

Not sure what the point is supposed to be. Apple has to follow the same App Tracking Transparency rules as well, correct? So they're equally limited by that feature.

Exactly. There’s nothing wrong with advertising as long as the consumer knows what is going on. And I for one would rather see ads based on my interests rather than random ads for everything under the sun that have nothing to do with me. As long as I have the choice to opt-out I’m okay.

Did you not read the article completely? The new ads would be paid placement, not search related interest- based ads. They would be the exact thing you say you don't want.
Do you not know what opting out means? You're not opting out of ads. You can never opt out of ads. You only opt out of the one thing you say you're okay with: interest based ads. So if you do opt out, you will only get random ads. The thing you said you don't want. There is no scenario where you get no ads.

dysamoria · April 23, 2021 1:18AM

NO!

Advertising advertising advertising advertising!!!

No no no no no no no!

Stop with the dogdamned advertising fucking EVERYWHERE!! Doesn’t anyone else see how disgustingly dystopian our civilization is getting with the never ending invasion of advertising into every space and moment?? Billions of dollars thrown around back & forth between the handful of monster corporations, terabytes of data, megawatts of power... all dedicated to the act of using us as targets or as outright cattle!

There is already SO MUCH that’s BROKEN and POISONOUS with our civilization, and laissez-faire capitalism is right there with it’s damned tendrils in ALL of it!

SO SICK OF ADVERTISING!

Apple growing its own ad business as privacy changes limit rivals

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