New Apple TV Siri Remote incompatible with some tvOS games

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 56
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,395member

    entropys said:
    It would make sense if Apple actually made a real controller. But it doesn’t, and I doubt it will. Stick a toe in wriggle it about, pull it out, then race onto the next shiny.

    Example eleventy zillion and three that Apple Doesn’t Get Games. Why anyone would pay for a game subscription service from this mob is a mystery.
    If the ATV is compatible w/ the leading console controllers, why does Apple need to make their own? What would be the value add?

    Sure sounds like the argument that Apple needs to make printers. They got out when they realized they had no value to offer compared to popular printers. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 56
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,395member

    maccaguy said:
    So no motion detection and no “find my” features? At least it looks pretty... 
    Have never used motion detection. Have never lost it. What am I doing wrong??
    mike1watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 56
    JapheyJaphey Posts: 735member
    Big deal. I was annoyed at first…Until I realized that the only thing it will affect is my ability to play the 4-5 games I downloaded 3 years ago which have been sitting, unused, taking up valuable hard drive space. The people most affected by this omission are those that already have the (now) old remote, and they can just use it with the new ATV when they want to play those now vintage games. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 56
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,210member
    elijahg said:
    What?! Why is it one step forward two back with Apple now? Most 3D tvOS games use the accelerometer/gyro. Plenty are abandoned too and will never be updated to function properly without the new remote. So this means the AppleTV is really $149 + $99 for a PS4 controller that is pretty much essential if you want to play 3D games. Even more reason to believe Apple isn't serious about AppleTV games. But of course it's all fine really because most importantly, that's $1.50 extra profit per AppleTV.
    I'd argue this shows that they know the Siri Remote was shit and are phasing it out for anything other than basic game use. Anyone who gives a shit about gaming would have already bought an Xbox/PS/MFi controller or had one around anyway, or just buy a used one on Ebay or at GameStop. 
    FTFY.

    Then if it was so shit, why up until a day ago force developers to support the thing?
  • Reply 25 of 56
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,431member
    Beats said:
    I HAD A FUC*ING FEELING THIS PIECE OF SHI* HAD FUNCTIONALITY LIKE THE GYROSCOPE REMOVED.

    HARD HARD PASS. 
    What kind of gamer uses a dopey remote as a controller? If this is a deal breaker for you, you weren't into games anyway. 

    Been playing games all my life and probably played more games than people here. Heck it made me anti-social.

    you’re missing the point. Apple is INTENTIONALLY leaving out gaming. Something they’re more capable of doing than Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, NVidia, etc.

    This new Apple TV and crappy remote are a kick of dirt in our faces who have stuck with Apple during their game-less TV days. 
    elijahg
  • Reply 26 of 56
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,210member

    entropys said:
    It would make sense if Apple actually made a real controller. But it doesn’t, and I doubt it will. Stick a toe in wriggle it about, pull it out, then race onto the next shiny.

    Example eleventy zillion and three that Apple Doesn’t Get Games. Why anyone would pay for a game subscription service from this mob is a mystery.
    If the ATV is compatible w/ the leading console controllers, why does Apple need to make their own? What would be the value add?

    Sure sounds like the argument that Apple needs to make printers. They got out when they realized they had no value to offer compared to popular printers. 
    If that's your argument, why does Apple need to make the AppleTV at all? What does it do that other things can't? The things it can do it doesn't do particularly well. The games are just blown up mobile games, which I play a couple of every now and then but otherwise it's just a Plex box. Originally it was pretty unique, basically iTunes in a box, but as usual everyone else has caught up and now produce boxes with for $49 that do pretty much everything (and often more than) the AppleTV does for 1/3 the price. And they even have AppleTV+ on them, so if there was ever any incentive to get an AppleTV for AppleTV+ (there wasn't) that has evaporated too. I have an AppleTV and it's perpetually dissatisfying. From the crap remote to the awful UI it's pretty shit, I have posted a list here many times why it's so bad, but suffice to say as usual its form over function. It looks really nice, but functionally it's horribly frustrating. 
    Beats
  • Reply 27 of 56
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,210member

    maccaguy said:
    So no motion detection and no “find my” features? At least it looks pretty... 
    Have never used motion detection. Have never lost it. What am I doing wrong??
    Isn't it strange how exactly none of the issues others experience be they hardware, software or services, never, ever affects you? Is it because your Apple stuff is just sat in a pretty showcase to look at?
    Beats
  • Reply 28 of 56
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,431member

    maccaguy said:
    So no motion detection and no “find my” features? At least it looks pretty... 
    Have never used motion detection. Have never lost it. What am I doing wrong??

    Not having kids around.

    Appleish said:
    Yeah, we always use Xbox controllers, so no biggie.

    Wow nice fix. I’ll buy an expensive Xbox controller for the kids’ motion games. Is motion even supported?

    maccaguy said:
    So no motion detection and no “find my” features? At least it looks pretty... 

    not even that. The old controller is way way way prettier. Slimmer with added functionality.




    Thicker for what?? At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if IR has also been removed. Another invisible feature.

    It’s also missing other OBVIOUS features like wireless charging, advanced motion, Taptic Engine.
    edited April 23 elijahg
  • Reply 29 of 56
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,210member
    elijahg said:
    What?! Why is it one step forward two back with Apple now? Most 3D tvOS games use the accelerometer/gyro. Plenty are abandoned too and will never be updated to function properly without the new remote. So this means the AppleTV is really $149 + $99 for a PS4 controller that is pretty much essential if you want to play 3D games. Even more reason to believe Apple isn't serious about AppleTV games. But of course it's all fine really because most importantly, that's $1.50 extra profit per AppleTV.
    How is a ps4 controller $99 dollars when they can be had for $65 brand new on Amazon or via Walmart or purchased used for probably $45 from GME. Also, if your serious about games you probably already have a compatible controller to use because no one is buying an apple tv strictly for it gaming functions. I will say if apple wanted to get serious about games though they need to stop being anemic with the storage like nintendo and do more than 64gb because if you have some big games and some tv apps the apple TV still will then randomly close arcade when storage gets low low. I've experienced it myself. 
    Genuine PS4 controller is $94 on Amazon right now, $89 at Walmart. Might want to check these things before you make claims.
    edited April 23 Beats
  • Reply 30 of 56
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,431member
    n2itivguy said:
    elijahg said:
    So this means the AppleTV is really $149 + $99 for a PS4 controller that is pretty much essential if you want to play 3D games. 
    Yep, and it’s dumb, IMHO. Apple needs a first-party remote where they can control the hardware and software and provide updated firmware for that’ll work flawlessly with the rest of their ecosystem, and they can include a U1 chip for seamless switching between devices that’ll go along with iCloud saving and such. It’s really a no- brainer to me if they were serious about gaming on all of their platforms. They can add the haptic engine instead of rumble gear, use touch and scrolling and directional clicks, specific buttons and layout with icons that mimic the Apple TV remote for play/pause, home, volume +/-, add menu (iconic Apple logo button) and make it as ergonomically comfy as possible with wireless, USB-C with smart-charging for long-lasting battery life. There’s just so much potential for not only uniqueness, but advancement here! 

    They could have something in-store for whenever their VR equipment comes out — perhaps in combo with the “newer” HomePod — but there’s nothing wrong with different controllers for different types of hardware. Or maybe they’re big push on gaming will be with their VR stuff and XBox/PS/MFi is just bridging until then? ߤ䠓till, I’d LOVE for them to improve on what’s been around for a while with general controllers, something specifically Apple-ish. One can dream…. 

    You’re repeating common sense features that Apple clearly doesn’t give a F about. Not bashing you specifically but how blatantly obvious these features are and Apple refuses to give a F about us. I would also add wireless charging to your remote idea.

    The Siri Remote wasn’t even bad. All they had to do is open the lightning port to 3rd parties like the Wii did. It’s super slim and would have brought down costs of 3rd party remotes because it would offer IR and motion for them.  You would basically be able to slip the remote into other accessories and controllers.

    Nintendo’s solution from 2006. Imagine this Apple-fied for 2021.



    Apple could have removed the wire. Added a small adapter which displays lights like the Wii Remote for player indication and added extra battery for the remote. Simple.

    This following is a case, but gives you an idea of what would be possible. Imagine this being a hardware controller add-on:




    People who say “just buy an Xbox!” Don’t get it. Xbox sucks for media consumption and Apple TV nails media but drops the ball on gaming. So now we need 2 boxes. Apple TV was supposed to be the perfect all in one media box for me except Apple added game functionality without actually supporting it as a games console.

    I was so disappointed when Microsoft removed Minecraft(FREAKING MINECRAFT!! YOUR FRIDGE PROBABLY RUNS MINECRAFT). One day I reset my Apple TV and poof! Minecraft and Ducktales the two best games on the Apple TV were GONE. I felt sick to my stomach as the kids played Minecraft daily. We had to buy a Nintendo Switch to fix this fu**ing problem!!
    edited April 23 elijahg
  • Reply 31 of 56
    JapheyJaphey Posts: 735member
    Beats said:

    maccaguy said:
    So no motion detection and no “find my” features? At least it looks pretty... 
    Have never used motion detection. Have never lost it. What am I doing wrong??

    Not having kids around.

    Appleish said:
    Yeah, we always use Xbox controllers, so no biggie.

    Wow nice fix. I’ll buy an expensive Xbox controller for the kids’ motion games. Is motion even supported?

    maccaguy said:
    So no motion detection and no “find my” features? At least it looks pretty... 

    not even that. The old controller is way way way prettier. Slimmer with added functionality.




    Thicker for what?? At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if IR has also been removed. Another invisible feature.

    It’s also missing other OBVIOUS features like wireless charging, advanced motion, Taptic Engine.
    I would as U1 to this list, as well. 
    I agree with your previous post that this release is a kick in the face of us loyal ATV fans. They had such a great opportunity here to knock It out of the park, and they instead settled for a bunt. Especially this year, 6 months into the new console generation that is still seeing severe supply constraints. They really could have generated significant interest by taking Xbox and PlayStation on directly, while retaining the same price point. Instead, they “upgrade” with a 2 1/2 old chip for the same price. Why? It’s like they’re actively trying to not take gamers seriously…instead of picking the low hanging fruit, they’re intentionally ducking to get out of the way. I’m seriously starting to wonder if it’s worth waking up early on launch day for one. 
    elijahg
  • Reply 32 of 56
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,431member
    Japhey said:
    Beats said:

    maccaguy said:
    So no motion detection and no “find my” features? At least it looks pretty... 
    Have never used motion detection. Have never lost it. What am I doing wrong??

    Not having kids around.

    Appleish said:
    Yeah, we always use Xbox controllers, so no biggie.

    Wow nice fix. I’ll buy an expensive Xbox controller for the kids’ motion games. Is motion even supported?

    maccaguy said:
    So no motion detection and no “find my” features? At least it looks pretty... 

    not even that. The old controller is way way way prettier. Slimmer with added functionality.




    Thicker for what?? At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if IR has also been removed. Another invisible feature.

    It’s also missing other OBVIOUS features like wireless charging, advanced motion, Taptic Engine.
    I would as U1 to this list, as well. 
    I agree with your previous post that this release is a kick in the face of us loyal ATV fans. They had such a great opportunity here to knock It out of the park, and they instead settled for a bunt. Especially this year, 6 months into the new console generation that is still seeing severe supply constraints. They really could have generated significant interest by taking Xbox and PlayStation on directly, while retaining the same price point. Instead, they “upgrade” with a 2 1/2 old chip for the same price. Why? It’s like they’re actively trying to not take gamers seriously…instead of picking the low hanging fruit, they’re intentionally ducking to get out of the way. I’m seriously starting to wonder if it’s worth waking up early on launch day for one. 

    I left out the U1 chip because someone else mentioned it before me but that’s another obvious addition. Why is the remote so thick? Is it full of air?

    I don’t think it’s worth an upgrade. Also why does it have a high refresh rate if they ignore gaming??

    To add insult to injury, the new Xbox and PS5 run on X86 chips. Apple has everything it needs to knock it out of the ballpark with an M1 Apple TV.

    I feel embarrassed. In 2017 I told a gamer friend that Apple was gonna take over since they have all the ingredients. Money, technology and design among other things. 
    Japheyelijahg
  • Reply 33 of 56
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,210member
    Beats said:
    I HAD A FUC*ING FEELING THIS PIECE OF SHI* HAD FUNCTIONALITY LIKE THE GYROSCOPE REMOVED.

    HARD HARD PASS. 
    What kind of gamer uses a dopey remote as a controller? If this is a deal breaker for you, you weren't into games anyway. 
    A casual one. The exact kind of gamer Apple is targeting, apparently.
    Beats
  • Reply 34 of 56
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,431member
    elijahg said:
    Beats said:
    I HAD A FUC*ING FEELING THIS PIECE OF SHI* HAD FUNCTIONALITY LIKE THE GYROSCOPE REMOVED.

    HARD HARD PASS. 
    What kind of gamer uses a dopey remote as a controller? If this is a deal breaker for you, you weren't into games anyway. 
    A casual one. The exact kind of gamer Apple is targeting, apparently.

    He must have never heard of the Wii which sold  100 million units even while Nintendo axed it during its prime.
    elijahg
  • Reply 35 of 56
    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    I HAD A FUC*ING FEELING THIS PIECE OF SHI* HAD FUNCTIONALITY LIKE THE GYROSCOPE REMOVED.

    HARD HARD PASS. 
    What kind of gamer uses a dopey remote as a controller? If this is a deal breaker for you, you weren't into games anyway. 

    Been playing games all my life and probably played more games than people here. Heck it made me anti-social.

    you’re missing the point. Apple is INTENTIONALLY leaving out gaming. Something they’re more capable of doing than Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, NVidia, etc.

    This new Apple TV and crappy remote are a kick of dirt in our faces who have stuck with Apple during their game-less TV days. 
    Which game that regularly play on your Apple TV is impacted by this? And as a long time gamer, do you honestly only play with the Apple remote? You don’t have an XBox or PS controller?
  • Reply 36 of 56
    You could just use your iPhone. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 56
    applguyapplguy Posts: 150member
    Which game that regularly play on your Apple TV is impacted by this? And as a long time gamer, do you honestly only play with the Apple remote? You don’t have an XBox or PS controller?
    I’m also a long time game since the Atari 2600. The obvious Apple TV games impacted are Tennis and Bowling. There is also a decent pool game, Cueist. Different driving games and jet ski style games. A really good game is Galaxy on Fire playing at 1080, 60fps. 

    The Xbox controller does not have motion sensors. I don’t know about the PS controllers. The other option is using an iPhone as controller. 
    edited April 24 Beatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 56
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,227member
    applguy said:
    Which game that regularly play on your Apple TV is impacted by this? And as a long time gamer, do you honestly only play with the Apple remote? You don’t have an XBox or PS controller?
    I’m also a long time game since the Atari 2600. The obvious Apple TV games impacted are Tennis and Bowling. There is also a decent pool game, Cueist. Different driving games and jet ski style games. A really good game is Galaxy on Fire playing at 1080, 60fps. 

    The Xbox controller does not have motion sensors. I don’t know about the PS controllers. The other option is using an iPhone as controller. 
    PS does have motion sensors, but it's rare for games to use them much.  Overall it's a pretty niche control method, and as Apple TV is already a pretty niche gaming platform it's hard to see this as in any way consequential.  Anyone screeching about it is likely concern trolling for attention.
    applguy
  • Reply 39 of 56
    Beats said: Why is the remote so thick? Is it full of air?
    They moved the Siri button to the side of the remote. It also works better ergonomically, as the thicker sides make it easier to grasp when it's lying on a flat surface.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 56
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,227member
    Beats said: Why is the remote so thick? Is it full of air?
    They moved the Siri button to the side of the remote. It also works better ergonomically, as the thicker sides make it easier to grasp when it's lying on a flat surface.
    Yeah, the thinness was something that was often complained about.  Now the shrill contrary crowd are complaining that it's gotten thicker.  Figures.
    watto_cobra
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