I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
Apple doesn't consider that iPad w/keyboard to be a hybrid. They still market it as iPad + accessory, so while you may think that "Apple has a number of ways to go there", I'm thinking, any future 2 in 1 is going to be a new product. Whether that implies Mac OS, is unknown to us; maybe it will be an entirely new OS derived from Mac OS.
There is not getting away from the fact that for real productivity, a physical keyboard was needed.
Right from the very first iPad which was more of a passive (consumption) device right through to the 'Pro' models.
A major hurdle along the way was something as basic as file management which took ages to be 'half' remedied.
It doesn't matter how Apple wants to 'market' the product, devices suit different needs at different times.
A true 2in1 would be the way to go because it would increase flexibility for the user. Folding devices are another option.
As for the OS, there is no valid reason nowadays for this fragmentation from a user perspective.
One OS should be able to adapt itself to anything Apple puts out, saving developers and users time and hassle. From pro desktops through smartscreens, tablets, phones and down to car head units, earbuds and watches.
The end result should be an ecosystem that can pool hardware resources to satisfy user needs and the real gruntwork would have to be done at the IDE phase. That's a major undertaking but it should be the goal and to be honest it what I think will happen at some point.
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
Apple doesn't consider that iPad w/keyboard to be a hybrid. They still market it as iPad + accessory, so while you may think that "Apple has a number of ways to go there", I'm thinking, any future 2 in 1 is going to be a new product. Whether that implies Mac OS, is unknown to us; maybe it will be an entirely new OS derived from Mac OS.
There is not getting away from the fact that for real productivity, a physical keyboard was needed.
Right from the very first iPad which was more of a passive (consumption) device right through to the 'Pro' models.
A major hurdle along the way was something as basic as file management which took ages to be 'half' remedied.
It doesn't matter how Apple wants to 'market' the product, devices suit different needs at different times.
A true 2in1 would be the way to go because it would increase flexibility for the user. Folding devices are another option.
As for the OS, there is no valid reason nowadays for this fragmentation from a user perspective.
One OS should be able to adapt itself to anything Apple puts out, saving developers and users time and hassle. From pro desktops through smartscreens, tablets, phones and down to car head units, earbuds and watches.
The end result should be an ecosystem that can pool hardware resources to satisfy user needs and the real gruntwork would have to be done at the IDE phase. That's a major undertaking but it should be the goal and to be honest it what I think will happen at some point.
Spouting your Huawei Gospel again; one OS to rule them all.
There isn't anything wrong with Apple's current development system for specific niches with a customized OS targeted to the hardware/screen size, and UI. It obviously works well as customer satisfaction is extremely high for Apple products.
Should Apple deliver a foldable, I expect that it to will have its own custom OS, as it should since it is different in use than either an iPad or an iPhone. That we will find out if and when it actually happens.
But 2 in 1's are also a completely different beast than Notebooks, or iPads, and should Apple actually deliver a true 2 in 1, I would expect that too would have a custom OS.
I don't really buy into your spiel, since you aren't really a daily user of anything Apple that is recent. Write once for every device will only result in less than ideal, and in many cases, a mediocre experience, for the user. I'll pass on that.
My current home daily drivers are a MBP and a MBA. Old, but pretty functional.
I was talking about the concept rather than any real product. Yes, Huawei is going to bring that idea to real products soon and there will be teething issues for sure. It's impossible to hit the ground running with something so complex but from a purely conceptual perspective there are good arguments for a universal system pulling in functionality from available devices and simplifying the development process for developers.
You are glossing over the current real failings in Apple's current setup and we are talking about supposedly very mature systems. File management for example. Until relatively recently it was a royal pain to manage such simple items as email attachments on Apple mobile devices. Physical keyboards have been performing better for tablet work in productivity terms, for example. And with good reason.
On paper, a lot has been said about HarmonyOS but even you should be able to see that virtualised hardware and various distributed technologies make more sense if you truly want collaboration between devices (moreso when smart IoT devices are already here).
Apparently, a major problem on car head units for example was the landscape vs portrait issue. I don't drive so that was never of much interest to me but HarmonyOS has reportedly solved that and has been on the market for over a year now. Now, it's self driving technology is shipping on cars together with HarmonyOS.
For sure all eyes will be on that at its roll out on high memory mobile devices very soon and I have been told that at some point it will make the jump to desktop/laptop systems too.
That's where I expect Apple to end up too at some point.
You really need to stop postulating about how great Harmony OS will be, and how uniquely easy it will be for developers, and wait for it to be delivered, because what I am seeing is not what you are.
Isn't that exactly what I said? Where did I say the deployed system would be great?
For this discussion I am speaking from a conceptual perspective as Apple doesn't have anything like what HarmonyOS is aiming for - yet.
And as I said, when HarmonyOS arrives on high memory devices it will need to mature (just like every other OS before it) but that doesn't mean the conceptual advantages suddenly vanish.
Stick to the conceptual side if things for the moment.
In the past, you waxed poetic about how great Harmony OS was, not will be.
The practical side of things is that Harmony OS is today, much a pipe dream. Show me, don't tell me, what it will do, because its just marketing to this point in time.
It seems improbable that a (probably) state-controlled, Android-based OS is going to become the thing that an increasingly privacy-oriented company like Apple will seek to emulate.
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
Apple doesn't consider that iPad w/keyboard to be a hybrid. They still market it as iPad + accessory, so while you may think that "Apple has a number of ways to go there", I'm thinking, any future 2 in 1 is going to be a new product. Whether that implies Mac OS, is unknown to us; maybe it will be an entirely new OS derived from Mac OS.
There is not getting away from the fact that for real productivity, a physical keyboard was needed.
Right from the very first iPad which was more of a passive (consumption) device right through to the 'Pro' models.
A major hurdle along the way was something as basic as file management which took ages to be 'half' remedied.
It doesn't matter how Apple wants to 'market' the product, devices suit different needs at different times.
A true 2in1 would be the way to go because it would increase flexibility for the user. Folding devices are another option.
As for the OS, there is no valid reason nowadays for this fragmentation from a user perspective.
One OS should be able to adapt itself to anything Apple puts out, saving developers and users time and hassle. From pro desktops through smartscreens, tablets, phones and down to car head units, earbuds and watches.
The end result should be an ecosystem that can pool hardware resources to satisfy user needs and the real gruntwork would have to be done at the IDE phase. That's a major undertaking but it should be the goal and to be honest it what I think will happen at some point.
Spouting your Huawei Gospel again; one OS to rule them all.
There isn't anything wrong with Apple's current development system for specific niches with a customized OS targeted to the hardware/screen size, and UI. It obviously works well as customer satisfaction is extremely high for Apple products.
Should Apple deliver a foldable, I expect that it to will have its own custom OS, as it should since it is different in use than either an iPad or an iPhone. That we will find out if and when it actually happens.
But 2 in 1's are also a completely different beast than Notebooks, or iPads, and should Apple actually deliver a true 2 in 1, I would expect that too would have a custom OS.
I don't really buy into your spiel, since you aren't really a daily user of anything Apple that is recent. Write once for every device will only result in less than ideal, and in many cases, a mediocre experience, for the user. I'll pass on that.
My current home daily drivers are a MBP and a MBA. Old, but pretty functional.
I was talking about the concept rather than any real product. Yes, Huawei is going to bring that idea to real products soon and there will be teething issues for sure. It's impossible to hit the ground running with something so complex but from a purely conceptual perspective there are good arguments for a universal system pulling in functionality from available devices and simplifying the development process for developers.
You are glossing over the current real failings in Apple's current setup and we are talking about supposedly very mature systems. File management for example. Until relatively recently it was a royal pain to manage such simple items as email attachments on Apple mobile devices. Physical keyboards have been performing better for tablet work in productivity terms, for example. And with good reason.
On paper, a lot has been said about HarmonyOS but even you should be able to see that virtualised hardware and various distributed technologies make more sense if you truly want collaboration between devices (moreso when smart IoT devices are already here).
Apparently, a major problem on car head units for example was the landscape vs portrait issue. I don't drive so that was never of much interest to me but HarmonyOS has reportedly solved that and has been on the market for over a year now. Now, it's self driving technology is shipping on cars together with HarmonyOS.
For sure all eyes will be on that at its roll out on high memory mobile devices very soon and I have been told that at some point it will make the jump to desktop/laptop systems too.
That's where I expect Apple to end up too at some point.
You really need to stop postulating about how great Harmony OS will be, and how uniquely easy it will be for developers, and wait for it to be delivered, because what I am seeing is not what you are.
Isn't that exactly what I said? Where did I say the deployed system would be great?
For this discussion I am speaking from a conceptual perspective as Apple doesn't have anything like what HarmonyOS is aiming for - yet.
And as I said, when HarmonyOS arrives on high memory devices it will need to mature (just like every other OS before it) but that doesn't mean the conceptual advantages suddenly vanish.
Stick to the conceptual side if things for the moment.
In the past, you waxed poetic about how great Harmony OS was, not will be.
The practical side of things is that Harmony OS is today, much a pipe dream. Show me, don't tell me, what it will do, because its just marketing to this point in time.
Forget the deployed product. Forget the marketing.
Focus on the conceptual angle. Why is that so beyond you? Are you saying you can't see the advantages?
In terms of product, it is running on routers, TVs, smart monitors, watches, cars etc. In terms of what it can do, I suggest you watch the three hour HDC technical keynote (from September 2020) on HarmonyOS 2.0 with real world demos of hardware virtualisation, distributed capabilities etc. Not marketing.
It is not my style to 'wax poetic' about anything. Feel free to quote me. I'm a realist and prefer to wait and see how things develop. However, I am not automatically 'anti' anything until it has had a chance to show its worth. That is what makes us different.
Whatever. It doesn't concern me, since I won't be anywhere close to connection to a Huawei product.
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
Apple doesn't consider that iPad w/keyboard to be a hybrid. They still market it as iPad + accessory, so while you may think that "Apple has a number of ways to go there", I'm thinking, any future 2 in 1 is going to be a new product. Whether that implies Mac OS, is unknown to us; maybe it will be an entirely new OS derived from Mac OS.
There is not getting away from the fact that for real productivity, a physical keyboard was needed.
Right from the very first iPad which was more of a passive (consumption) device right through to the 'Pro' models.
A major hurdle along the way was something as basic as file management which took ages to be 'half' remedied.
It doesn't matter how Apple wants to 'market' the product, devices suit different needs at different times.
A true 2in1 would be the way to go because it would increase flexibility for the user. Folding devices are another option.
As for the OS, there is no valid reason nowadays for this fragmentation from a user perspective.
One OS should be able to adapt itself to anything Apple puts out, saving developers and users time and hassle. From pro desktops through smartscreens, tablets, phones and down to car head units, earbuds and watches.
The end result should be an ecosystem that can pool hardware resources to satisfy user needs and the real gruntwork would have to be done at the IDE phase. That's a major undertaking but it should be the goal and to be honest it what I think will happen at some point.
Spouting your Huawei Gospel again; one OS to rule them all.
There isn't anything wrong with Apple's current development system for specific niches with a customized OS targeted to the hardware/screen size, and UI. It obviously works well as customer satisfaction is extremely high for Apple products.
Should Apple deliver a foldable, I expect that it to will have its own custom OS, as it should since it is different in use than either an iPad or an iPhone. That we will find out if and when it actually happens.
But 2 in 1's are also a completely different beast than Notebooks, or iPads, and should Apple actually deliver a true 2 in 1, I would expect that too would have a custom OS.
I don't really buy into your spiel, since you aren't really a daily user of anything Apple that is recent. Write once for every device will only result in less than ideal, and in many cases, a mediocre experience, for the user. I'll pass on that.
My current home daily drivers are a MBP and a MBA. Old, but pretty functional.
I was talking about the concept rather than any real product. Yes, Huawei is going to bring that idea to real products soon and there will be teething issues for sure. It's impossible to hit the ground running with something so complex but from a purely conceptual perspective there are good arguments for a universal system pulling in functionality from available devices and simplifying the development process for developers.
You are glossing over the current real failings in Apple's current setup and we are talking about supposedly very mature systems. File management for example. Until relatively recently it was a royal pain to manage such simple items as email attachments on Apple mobile devices. Physical keyboards have been performing better for tablet work in productivity terms, for example. And with good reason.
On paper, a lot has been said about HarmonyOS but even you should be able to see that virtualised hardware and various distributed technologies make more sense if you truly want collaboration between devices (moreso when smart IoT devices are already here).
Apparently, a major problem on car head units for example was the landscape vs portrait issue. I don't drive so that was never of much interest to me but HarmonyOS has reportedly solved that and has been on the market for over a year now. Now, it's self driving technology is shipping on cars together with HarmonyOS.
For sure all eyes will be on that at its roll out on high memory mobile devices very soon and I have been told that at some point it will make the jump to desktop/laptop systems too.
That's where I expect Apple to end up too at some point.
You really need to stop postulating about how great Harmony OS will be, and how uniquely easy it will be for developers, and wait for it to be delivered, because what I am seeing is not what you are.
Isn't that exactly what I said? Where did I say the deployed system would be great?
For this discussion I am speaking from a conceptual perspective as Apple doesn't have anything like what HarmonyOS is aiming for - yet.
And as I said, when HarmonyOS arrives on high memory devices it will need to mature (just like every other OS before it) but that doesn't mean the conceptual advantages suddenly vanish.
Stick to the conceptual side if things for the moment.
In the past, you waxed poetic about how great Harmony OS was, not will be.
The practical side of things is that Harmony OS is today, much a pipe dream. Show me, don't tell me, what it will do, because its just marketing to this point in time.
It seems improbable that a (probably) state-controlled, Android-based OS is going to become the thing that an increasingly privacy-oriented company like Apple will seek to emulate.
The PRC OS, but you're correct. For data collection, Harmony OS will be the prime mover.
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
Apple doesn't consider that iPad w/keyboard to be a hybrid. They still market it as iPad + accessory, so while you may think that "Apple has a number of ways to go there", I'm thinking, any future 2 in 1 is going to be a new product. Whether that implies Mac OS, is unknown to us; maybe it will be an entirely new OS derived from Mac OS.
There is not getting away from the fact that for real productivity, a physical keyboard was needed.
Right from the very first iPad which was more of a passive (consumption) device right through to the 'Pro' models.
A major hurdle along the way was something as basic as file management which took ages to be 'half' remedied.
It doesn't matter how Apple wants to 'market' the product, devices suit different needs at different times.
A true 2in1 would be the way to go because it would increase flexibility for the user. Folding devices are another option.
As for the OS, there is no valid reason nowadays for this fragmentation from a user perspective.
One OS should be able to adapt itself to anything Apple puts out, saving developers and users time and hassle. From pro desktops through smartscreens, tablets, phones and down to car head units, earbuds and watches.
The end result should be an ecosystem that can pool hardware resources to satisfy user needs and the real gruntwork would have to be done at the IDE phase. That's a major undertaking but it should be the goal and to be honest it what I think will happen at some point.
This is the Microsoft Windows bloatware model of trying to be all things to all people. This is not anything that Apple has ever looked at and said, "yeah, let's do that." It is their decision to create or modify and diverge operating systems for specific devices that makes them run as reliably as they do. A watch or earbuds do not need the bazillion lines of code necessary to run a desktop Mac.
So, what is it about iPad hardware running the Mac's M1 chip that prevents or limits it from running MacOS?
What component does it lack?
Absolutely nothing. There is no reason why Apple wouldn't be able (with some effort) to get macOS running on an iPad. The same has been true since iPad came out, and isn't significantly more true now.
But Apple don't want to do that. Why would they?
Until recently -- when Apple ported MacOS to the M1 chip then replaced the A series chip in the iPad with an M1 -- it may have been theoretically possible but not really feasible because MacOS would not run on an ARM based processor. Now that both Macs and the M1 iPad run the same processor it becomes much more feasible and practical.
Apple did not take 10 years to port macOS to the ARM instruction set. They could have done it at any time. They didn't, because they didn't want macOS on the iPad. I doubt very much that anything has changed in that regard. It's always been feasible, and practicality has nothing to with it. Apple's willingness is the only thing that matters, and they have shown zero.
You're saying that Apple held back converting the Mac to an ARM style processor because they didn't want to port MacOS to the iPad?
I don't get your logic.
The idea of dual booting either MacOS or iPadOS on the iPad comes from: 1) Like a dog, "they do it because (now) they can"
2) iPadOS is so weak once you expand out of basic tablet mode.
The logic seems pretty self evident to me, so not sure what you don't get.
In answer to your "idea"
When has Apple ever done something "because it could"
No it isn't. It is exactly what Apple wants it to be. If you don't like that, Apple's message is buy something else, like a Mac.
I still can't find the logic (or accuracy) in any of that. Sorry.
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
This is a catch-22. If Apple allows macOS on the iPad Pro when in laptop mode, the potential downside is that developers have little incentive to develop apps that are touch-first and optimized for iPadOS.
Imagine how bad reception for the iPad would have been if changing from Landscape to Portrait required a reboot and information might be trapped in one Version of the OS not the other.
How is dual boot mac/pad any different?
Will always be better user experience for Apple to make iPadOS better and push developers to adapt. I can't see Apple going the easy way here.
After all what more does iPadOS need to do to make it easier for Mac Developers to cross-over they could make more and more default behaviour widgets to help streamline. A good thing for users either way but in the end each app has some unique interactions they need to convert to hybrid touch/mouse before they can offer an iPadPro Version that won't seem half baked.
They are totally different. You are comparing two different things.
But yes, it may be better if Apple brought iPadOS up to par with MacOS (Although many seem to think that a merged OS is not a good idea). But regardlless, they do not seem likely to do that -- at least not anytime soon.
So, some sort of switching to the appropriate OS is the quickest, easiest way to providing the M1 iPad with its full potential: And, it could be as optional as Bootcamp is now: "You are in laptop mode, do you want to switch to MacOS?"
That would be right up there with the worst user experience ever, and there isn't a chance in hell of Apple ever doing that.
Why?
The worst user experience is trying to do Mac level stuff on weak iPadOS. It's horrible.
Allowing the user to switch to a more appropriate OS if they want to would solve that.
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
This is a catch-22. If Apple allows macOS on the iPad Pro when in laptop mode, the potential downside is that developers have little incentive to develop apps that are touch-first and optimized for iPadOS.
Imagine how bad reception for the iPad would have been if changing from Landscape to Portrait required a reboot and information might be trapped in one Version of the OS not the other.
How is dual boot mac/pad any different?
Will always be better user experience for Apple to make iPadOS better and push developers to adapt. I can't see Apple going the easy way here.
After all what more does iPadOS need to do to make it easier for Mac Developers to cross-over they could make more and more default behaviour widgets to help streamline. A good thing for users either way but in the end each app has some unique interactions they need to convert to hybrid touch/mouse before they can offer an iPadPro Version that won't seem half baked.
They are totally different. You are comparing two different things.
But yes, it may be better if Apple brought iPadOS up to par with MacOS (Although many seem to think that a merged OS is not a good idea). But regardlless, they do not seem likely to do that -- at least not anytime soon.
So, some sort of switching to the appropriate OS is the quickest, easiest way to providing the M1 iPad with its full potential: And, it could be as optional as Bootcamp is now: "You are in laptop mode, do you want to switch to MacOS?"
That would be right up there with the worst user experience ever, and there isn't a chance in hell of Apple ever doing that.
Why?
The worst user experience is trying to do Mac level stuff on weak iPadOS. It's horrible.
Allowing the user to switch to a more appropriate OS if they want to would solve that.
No really.
It's called an iPad, not a Mac. The iPad is not intended, nor will it, mimic the Mac, so your report of the "horrible" user experience really missed the fucking point.
Like complaining about my not being able to load full sheets of plywood into the trunk of my Volvo; it was never intended for that.
Ahem. This is the part where you go buy a Surface and move on.
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
Apple doesn't consider that iPad w/keyboard to be a hybrid. They still market it as iPad + accessory, so while you may think that "Apple has a number of ways to go there", I'm thinking, any future 2 in 1 is going to be a new product. Whether that implies Mac OS, is unknown to us; maybe it will be an entirely new OS derived from Mac OS.
There is not getting away from the fact that for real productivity, a physical keyboard was needed.
Right from the very first iPad which was more of a passive (consumption) device right through to the 'Pro' models.
A major hurdle along the way was something as basic as file management which took ages to be 'half' remedied.
It doesn't matter how Apple wants to 'market' the product, devices suit different needs at different times.
A true 2in1 would be the way to go because it would increase flexibility for the user. Folding devices are another option.
As for the OS, there is no valid reason nowadays for this fragmentation from a user perspective.
One OS should be able to adapt itself to anything Apple puts out, saving developers and users time and hassle. From pro desktops through smartscreens, tablets, phones and down to car head units, earbuds and watches.
The end result should be an ecosystem that can pool hardware resources to satisfy user needs and the real gruntwork would have to be done at the IDE phase. That's a major undertaking but it should be the goal and to be honest it what I think will happen at some point.
Spouting your Huawei Gospel again; one OS to rule them all.
There isn't anything wrong with Apple's current development system for specific niches with a customized OS targeted to the hardware/screen size, and UI. It obviously works well as customer satisfaction is extremely high for Apple products.
Should Apple deliver a foldable, I expect that it to will have its own custom OS, as it should since it is different in use than either an iPad or an iPhone. That we will find out if and when it actually happens.
But 2 in 1's are also a completely different beast than Notebooks, or iPads, and should Apple actually deliver a true 2 in 1, I would expect that too would have a custom OS.
I don't really buy into your spiel, since you aren't really a daily user of anything Apple that is recent. Write once for every device will only result in less than ideal, and in many cases, a mediocre experience, for the user. I'll pass on that.
My current home daily drivers are a MBP and a MBA. Old, but pretty functional.
I was talking about the concept rather than any real product. Yes, Huawei is going to bring that idea to real products soon and there will be teething issues for sure. It's impossible to hit the ground running with something so complex but from a purely conceptual perspective there are good arguments for a universal system pulling in functionality from available devices and simplifying the development process for developers.
You are glossing over the current real failings in Apple's current setup and we are talking about supposedly very mature systems. File management for example. Until relatively recently it was a royal pain to manage such simple items as email attachments on Apple mobile devices. Physical keyboards have been performing better for tablet work in productivity terms, for example. And with good reason.
On paper, a lot has been said about HarmonyOS but even you should be able to see that virtualised hardware and various distributed technologies make more sense if you truly want collaboration between devices (moreso when smart IoT devices are already here).
Apparently, a major problem on car head units for example was the landscape vs portrait issue. I don't drive so that was never of much interest to me but HarmonyOS has reportedly solved that and has been on the market for over a year now. Now, it's self driving technology is shipping on cars together with HarmonyOS.
For sure all eyes will be on that at its roll out on high memory mobile devices very soon and I have been told that at some point it will make the jump to desktop/laptop systems too.
That's where I expect Apple to end up too at some point.
You really need to stop postulating about how great Harmony OS will be, and how uniquely easy it will be for developers, and wait for it to be delivered, because what I am seeing is not what you are.
Isn't that exactly what I said? Where did I say the deployed system would be great?
For this discussion I am speaking from a conceptual perspective as Apple doesn't have anything like what HarmonyOS is aiming for - yet.
And as I said, when HarmonyOS arrives on high memory devices it will need to mature (just like every other OS before it) but that doesn't mean the conceptual advantages suddenly vanish.
Stick to the conceptual side if things for the moment.
In the past, you waxed poetic about how great Harmony OS was, not will be.
The practical side of things is that Harmony OS is today, much a pipe dream. Show me, don't tell me, what it will do, because its just marketing to this point in time.
It seems improbable that a (probably) state-controlled, Android-based OS is going to become the thing that an increasingly privacy-oriented company like Apple will seek to emulate.
The PRC OS, but you're correct. For data collection, Harmony OS will be the prime mover.
Really? You don't think the EU and GDPR will have a say?
All my Huawei off device user data is held on servers physically located in the EU with GDPR compliance in mind and by an EU company wholly owned Huawei (Aspiegel SE). Everything is fully certified by the relative bodies. The data that is sent outside the EU or to partners under contract to enable worlwide use of HUAWEI IDs is detailed in their easy to read privacy statement.
The core of Huawei ID privacy that has the EU's Privacy Seal certification.
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
Apple doesn't consider that iPad w/keyboard to be a hybrid. They still market it as iPad + accessory, so while you may think that "Apple has a number of ways to go there", I'm thinking, any future 2 in 1 is going to be a new product. Whether that implies Mac OS, is unknown to us; maybe it will be an entirely new OS derived from Mac OS.
There is not getting away from the fact that for real productivity, a physical keyboard was needed.
Right from the very first iPad which was more of a passive (consumption) device right through to the 'Pro' models.
A major hurdle along the way was something as basic as file management which took ages to be 'half' remedied.
It doesn't matter how Apple wants to 'market' the product, devices suit different needs at different times.
A true 2in1 would be the way to go because it would increase flexibility for the user. Folding devices are another option.
As for the OS, there is no valid reason nowadays for this fragmentation from a user perspective.
One OS should be able to adapt itself to anything Apple puts out, saving developers and users time and hassle. From pro desktops through smartscreens, tablets, phones and down to car head units, earbuds and watches.
The end result should be an ecosystem that can pool hardware resources to satisfy user needs and the real gruntwork would have to be done at the IDE phase. That's a major undertaking but it should be the goal and to be honest it what I think will happen at some point.
This is the Microsoft Windows bloatware model of trying to be all things to all people. This is not anything that Apple has ever looked at and said, "yeah, let's do that." It is their decision to create or modify and diverge operating systems for specific devices that makes them run as reliably as they do. A watch or earbuds do not need the bazillion lines of code necessary to run a desktop Mac.
Actually, I would say it's the complete opposite of that. Devices will only hold the OS modules that enable the required functionality. There are over 1,000 modules.
Technically speaking the OS is multi kernel too with a kernel abstraction layer. HarmonyOS 1.0 was deployed for devices from 128KB to 128MB RAM. HarmonyOS 2.0 will include devices from 128MB to 4GB of RAM.
Huawei is also claiming that code size is reduced.
Huawei also has its Ascend line of processors which provide scaled processing options at a hardware level. From Ascend-Nano for devices like earbuds up to Ascend Max for Data Centres and AI inference clusters. There are Ascend Tiny, Lite and Mini processors too, and as a group, cover all scenarios and do it using a unified architecture (DaVinci).
None of that points to anything remotely like bloatware but does point to varying degrees of efficiency.
So, what is it about iPad hardware running the Mac's M1 chip that prevents or limits it from running MacOS?
What component does it lack?
Absolutely nothing. There is no reason why Apple wouldn't be able (with some effort) to get macOS running on an iPad. The same has been true since iPad came out, and isn't significantly more true now.
But Apple don't want to do that. Why would they?
Until recently -- when Apple ported MacOS to the M1 chip then replaced the A series chip in the iPad with an M1 -- it may have been theoretically possible but not really feasible because MacOS would not run on an ARM based processor. Now that both Macs and the M1 iPad run the same processor it becomes much more feasible and practical.
Apple did not take 10 years to port macOS to the ARM instruction set. They could have done it at any time. They didn't, because they didn't want macOS on the iPad. I doubt very much that anything has changed in that regard. It's always been feasible, and practicality has nothing to with it. Apple's willingness is the only thing that matters, and they have shown zero.
You're saying that Apple held back converting the Mac to an ARM style processor because they didn't want to port MacOS to the iPad?
I don't get your logic.
The idea of dual booting either MacOS or iPadOS on the iPad comes from: 1) Like a dog, "they do it because (now) they can"
2) iPadOS is so weak once you expand out of basic tablet mode.
The logic seems pretty self evident to me, so not sure what you don't get.
In answer to your "idea"
When has Apple ever done something "because it could"
No it isn't. It is exactly what Apple wants it to be. If you don't like that, Apple's message is buy something else, like a Mac.
I still can't find the logic (or accuracy) in any of that. Sorry.
This is why you will find Apple continuing not to do what you want them to do. Seriously, they sell a lot of iPads to a lot of people who report back high levels of customer satisfaction. The thing you think is a problem isn’t. Because it’s not a problem, there’s no need to fix it.
If the iPad doesn’t do the things you want, buy a device that does. There’s a nice array of Macs that will, or if you’re all about the tablet/notebook combo thing, buy a Surface. Telling strangers on an online forum that Apple should make you a combo device is not going to get you one.
So, what is it about iPad hardware running the Mac's M1 chip that prevents or limits it from running MacOS?
What component does it lack?
Absolutely nothing. There is no reason why Apple wouldn't be able (with some effort) to get macOS running on an iPad. The same has been true since iPad came out, and isn't significantly more true now.
But Apple don't want to do that. Why would they?
Until recently -- when Apple ported MacOS to the M1 chip then replaced the A series chip in the iPad with an M1 -- it may have been theoretically possible but not really feasible because MacOS would not run on an ARM based processor. Now that both Macs and the M1 iPad run the same processor it becomes much more feasible and practical.
Apple did not take 10 years to port macOS to the ARM instruction set. They could have done it at any time. They didn't, because they didn't want macOS on the iPad. I doubt very much that anything has changed in that regard. It's always been feasible, and practicality has nothing to with it. Apple's willingness is the only thing that matters, and they have shown zero.
You're saying that Apple held back converting the Mac to an ARM style processor because they didn't want to port MacOS to the iPad?
I don't get your logic.
The idea of dual booting either MacOS or iPadOS on the iPad comes from: 1) Like a dog, "they do it because (now) they can"
2) iPadOS is so weak once you expand out of basic tablet mode.
The logic seems pretty self evident to me, so not sure what you don't get.
In answer to your "idea"
When has Apple ever done something "because it could"
No it isn't. It is exactly what Apple wants it to be. If you don't like that, Apple's message is buy something else, like a Mac.
I still can't find the logic (or accuracy) in any of that. Sorry.
This is why you will find Apple continuing not to do what you want them to do. Seriously, they sell a lot of iPads to a lot of people who report back high levels of customer satisfaction. The thing you think is a problem isn’t. Because it’s not a problem, there’s no need to fix it.
If the iPad doesn’t do the things you want, buy a device that does. There’s a nice array of Macs that will, or if you’re all about the tablet/notebook combo thing, buy a Surface. Telling strangers on an online forum that Apple should make you a combo device is not going to get you one.
The majority of iPads that are sold are the entry-level iPad and iPad Air. Most of the people buying iPads aren't doing anything hardcore so for them iPadOS fits the bill. Buyers of iPad Pro are of a different breed.
So, what is it about iPad hardware running the Mac's M1 chip that prevents or limits it from running MacOS?
What component does it lack?
Absolutely nothing. There is no reason why Apple wouldn't be able (with some effort) to get macOS running on an iPad. The same has been true since iPad came out, and isn't significantly more true now.
But Apple don't want to do that. Why would they?
Until recently -- when Apple ported MacOS to the M1 chip then replaced the A series chip in the iPad with an M1 -- it may have been theoretically possible but not really feasible because MacOS would not run on an ARM based processor. Now that both Macs and the M1 iPad run the same processor it becomes much more feasible and practical.
Apple did not take 10 years to port macOS to the ARM instruction set. They could have done it at any time. They didn't, because they didn't want macOS on the iPad. I doubt very much that anything has changed in that regard. It's always been feasible, and practicality has nothing to with it. Apple's willingness is the only thing that matters, and they have shown zero.
You're saying that Apple held back converting the Mac to an ARM style processor because they didn't want to port MacOS to the iPad?
I don't get your logic.
The idea of dual booting either MacOS or iPadOS on the iPad comes from: 1) Like a dog, "they do it because (now) they can"
2) iPadOS is so weak once you expand out of basic tablet mode.
The logic seems pretty self evident to me, so not sure what you don't get.
In answer to your "idea"
When has Apple ever done something "because it could"
No it isn't. It is exactly what Apple wants it to be. If you don't like that, Apple's message is buy something else, like a Mac.
I still can't find the logic (or accuracy) in any of that. Sorry.
This is why you will find Apple continuing not to do what you want them to do. Seriously, they sell a lot of iPads to a lot of people who report back high levels of customer satisfaction. The thing you think is a problem isn’t. Because it’s not a problem, there’s no need to fix it.
If the iPad doesn’t do the things you want, buy a device that does. There’s a nice array of Macs that will, or if you’re all about the tablet/notebook combo thing, buy a Surface. Telling strangers on an online forum that Apple should make you a combo device is not going to get you one.
The majority of iPads that are sold are the entry-level iPad and iPad Air. Most of the people buying iPads aren't doing anything hardcore so for them iPadOS fits the bill. Buyers of iPad Pro are of a different breed.
Nonetheless, iPad is still a different paradigm than Mac, and will continue to be so.
People wanting a Mac tablet aren't going to get there by wishing that their iPad ran Mac OS. If it happens, it will be a new product line, not an enhancement/alteration of the existing products.
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
This is a catch-22. If Apple allows macOS on the iPad Pro when in laptop mode, the potential downside is that developers have little incentive to develop apps that are touch-first and optimized for iPadOS.
Imagine how bad reception for the iPad would have been if changing from Landscape to Portrait required a reboot and information might be trapped in one Version of the OS not the other.
How is dual boot mac/pad any different?
Will always be better user experience for Apple to make iPadOS better and push developers to adapt. I can't see Apple going the easy way here.
After all what more does iPadOS need to do to make it easier for Mac Developers to cross-over they could make more and more default behaviour widgets to help streamline. A good thing for users either way but in the end each app has some unique interactions they need to convert to hybrid touch/mouse before they can offer an iPadPro Version that won't seem half baked.
They are totally different. You are comparing two different things.
But yes, it may be better if Apple brought iPadOS up to par with MacOS (Although many seem to think that a merged OS is not a good idea). But regardlless, they do not seem likely to do that -- at least not anytime soon.
So, some sort of switching to the appropriate OS is the quickest, easiest way to providing the M1 iPad with its full potential: And, it could be as optional as Bootcamp is now: "You are in laptop mode, do you want to switch to MacOS?"
That would be right up there with the worst user experience ever, and there isn't a chance in hell of Apple ever doing that.
Why?
The worst user experience is trying to do Mac level stuff on weak iPadOS. It's horrible.
Allowing the user to switch to a more appropriate OS if they want to would solve that.
No really.
It's called an iPad, not a Mac. The iPad is not intended, nor will it, mimic the Mac, so your report of the "horrible" user experience really missed the fucking point.
Like complaining about my not being able to load full sheets of plywood into the trunk of my Volvo; it was never intended for that.
Ahem. This is the part where you go buy a Surface and move on.
Thanks for agreeing with my point: the iPad sucks at doing MacOS stuff.
That's why it needs to be able to run MacOS when it is needed and the user desires it. Now that M1 Macs and M1 iPads are using the same hardware (except for input devices) there's no technical reason why the M1 iPad can't be upgraded to run either iPadOS or MacOS as the need and the configuration arises. Any restrictions along those lines are strictly administrative and/or marketing -- and both are beneath Apple. They are something a lesser company would pull.
So, what is it about iPad hardware running the Mac's M1 chip that prevents or limits it from running MacOS?
What component does it lack?
Absolutely nothing. There is no reason why Apple wouldn't be able (with some effort) to get macOS running on an iPad. The same has been true since iPad came out, and isn't significantly more true now.
But Apple don't want to do that. Why would they?
Until recently -- when Apple ported MacOS to the M1 chip then replaced the A series chip in the iPad with an M1 -- it may have been theoretically possible but not really feasible because MacOS would not run on an ARM based processor. Now that both Macs and the M1 iPad run the same processor it becomes much more feasible and practical.
Apple did not take 10 years to port macOS to the ARM instruction set. They could have done it at any time. They didn't, because they didn't want macOS on the iPad. I doubt very much that anything has changed in that regard. It's always been feasible, and practicality has nothing to with it. Apple's willingness is the only thing that matters, and they have shown zero.
You're saying that Apple held back converting the Mac to an ARM style processor because they didn't want to port MacOS to the iPad?
I don't get your logic.
The idea of dual booting either MacOS or iPadOS on the iPad comes from: 1) Like a dog, "they do it because (now) they can"
2) iPadOS is so weak once you expand out of basic tablet mode.
The logic seems pretty self evident to me, so not sure what you don't get.
In answer to your "idea"
When has Apple ever done something "because it could"
No it isn't. It is exactly what Apple wants it to be. If you don't like that, Apple's message is buy something else, like a Mac.
I still can't find the logic (or accuracy) in any of that. Sorry.
This is why you will find Apple continuing not to do what you want them to do. Seriously, they sell a lot of iPads to a lot of people who report back high levels of customer satisfaction. The thing you think is a problem isn’t. Because it’s not a problem, there’s no need to fix it.
If the iPad doesn’t do the things you want, buy a device that does. There’s a nice array of Macs that will, or if you’re all about the tablet/notebook combo thing, buy a Surface. Telling strangers on an online forum that Apple should make you a combo device is not going to get you one.
Good that you don't work at Apple. They would still be pushing out the Apple II because, well, there's just no need for anything better.
So, what is it about iPad hardware running the Mac's M1 chip that prevents or limits it from running MacOS?
What component does it lack?
Absolutely nothing. There is no reason why Apple wouldn't be able (with some effort) to get macOS running on an iPad. The same has been true since iPad came out, and isn't significantly more true now.
But Apple don't want to do that. Why would they?
Until recently -- when Apple ported MacOS to the M1 chip then replaced the A series chip in the iPad with an M1 -- it may have been theoretically possible but not really feasible because MacOS would not run on an ARM based processor. Now that both Macs and the M1 iPad run the same processor it becomes much more feasible and practical.
Apple did not take 10 years to port macOS to the ARM instruction set. They could have done it at any time. They didn't, because they didn't want macOS on the iPad. I doubt very much that anything has changed in that regard. It's always been feasible, and practicality has nothing to with it. Apple's willingness is the only thing that matters, and they have shown zero.
You're saying that Apple held back converting the Mac to an ARM style processor because they didn't want to port MacOS to the iPad?
I don't get your logic.
The idea of dual booting either MacOS or iPadOS on the iPad comes from: 1) Like a dog, "they do it because (now) they can"
2) iPadOS is so weak once you expand out of basic tablet mode.
The logic seems pretty self evident to me, so not sure what you don't get.
In answer to your "idea"
When has Apple ever done something "because it could"
No it isn't. It is exactly what Apple wants it to be. If you don't like that, Apple's message is buy something else, like a Mac.
I still can't find the logic (or accuracy) in any of that. Sorry.
This is why you will find Apple continuing not to do what you want them to do. Seriously, they sell a lot of iPads to a lot of people who report back high levels of customer satisfaction. The thing you think is a problem isn’t. Because it’s not a problem, there’s no need to fix it.
If the iPad doesn’t do the things you want, buy a device that does. There’s a nice array of Macs that will, or if you’re all about the tablet/notebook combo thing, buy a Surface. Telling strangers on an online forum that Apple should make you a combo device is not going to get you one.
The majority of iPads that are sold are the entry-level iPad and iPad Air. Most of the people buying iPads aren't doing anything hardcore so for them iPadOS fits the bill. Buyers of iPad Pro are of a different breed.
I would disagree.
Not that the majority of iPads aren't the base iPad and IPad Air -- that's true. But that those users don't need both the tablet function and the laptop function. My 8th Grade grandson in cyberschool uses both every day. He could really use a device that could do both -- and in fact, he has one: his school handed out Dell 3190 2 in 1's. But, with Celeron processors they're pretty crappy to work on so he uses his MacBook and iPad with his Apple Pencil as needed. But, when he goes back to in-person, he'll have to use the school equipment.
A couple years ago Apple made a serious push to open up education to use the iPad (it's where the base iPad (Gen6) came from). But, students are hobbled with just an iPad, they need a laptop too. So, an M1 iPad (once it hits the base layer and the price comes down) that can fully switch hit as needed would suit their needs well.
Right now he can use his iPad in laptop mode -- it has an external keyboard and trackpad -- but it sucks more than the Celeron powered Dell because of the shitty OS. It gets used that way when the assignment requires switching back and forth between hand written stuff (like math) and typing essay questions.
I'm surprised Apple missed the boat on that one. But, back when they released the iPad Gen 6 nobody was thinking about kids using a computer for all their school work.
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
This is a catch-22. If Apple allows macOS on the iPad Pro when in laptop mode, the potential downside is that developers have little incentive to develop apps that are touch-first and optimized for iPadOS.
Imagine how bad reception for the iPad would have been if changing from Landscape to Portrait required a reboot and information might be trapped in one Version of the OS not the other.
How is dual boot mac/pad any different?
Will always be better user experience for Apple to make iPadOS better and push developers to adapt. I can't see Apple going the easy way here.
After all what more does iPadOS need to do to make it easier for Mac Developers to cross-over they could make more and more default behaviour widgets to help streamline. A good thing for users either way but in the end each app has some unique interactions they need to convert to hybrid touch/mouse before they can offer an iPadPro Version that won't seem half baked.
They are totally different. You are comparing two different things.
But yes, it may be better if Apple brought iPadOS up to par with MacOS (Although many seem to think that a merged OS is not a good idea). But regardlless, they do not seem likely to do that -- at least not anytime soon.
So, some sort of switching to the appropriate OS is the quickest, easiest way to providing the M1 iPad with its full potential: And, it could be as optional as Bootcamp is now: "You are in laptop mode, do you want to switch to MacOS?"
That would be right up there with the worst user experience ever, and there isn't a chance in hell of Apple ever doing that.
Why?
The worst user experience is trying to do Mac level stuff on weak iPadOS. It's horrible.
Allowing the user to switch to a more appropriate OS if they want to would solve that.
No really.
It's called an iPad, not a Mac. The iPad is not intended, nor will it, mimic the Mac, so your report of the "horrible" user experience really missed the fucking point.
Like complaining about my not being able to load full sheets of plywood into the trunk of my Volvo; it was never intended for that.
Ahem. This is the part where you go buy a Surface and move on.
Thanks for agreeing with my point: the iPad sucks at doing MacOS stuff.
That's why it needs to be able to run MacOS when it is needed and the user desires it. Now that M1 Macs and M1 iPads are using the same hardware (except for input devices) there's no technical reason why the M1 iPad can't be upgraded to run either iPadOS or MacOS as the need and the configuration arises. Any restrictions along those lines are strictly administrative and/or marketing -- and both are beneath Apple. They are something a lesser company would pull.
I'll wait to see how Apple and developers flesh out the M1 iPad Pro's without Mac OS, thanks, but you can keep ranting about it, and dissing Apple indefinitely, as if that will make any difference.
"This is my favorite question because you know, you have one camp of people who believe that the iPad and the Mac are at war with one another right it’s one or the other to the death. And then you have others who are like, no, they’re bringing them together — they’re forcing them into one single platform and there’s a grand conspiracy here,” he says.
“They are at opposite ends of a thought spectrum and the reality is that neither is correct. We pride ourselves in the fact that we work really, really, really hard to have the best products in the respective categories. The Mac is the best personal computer, it just is. Customer satisfaction would indicate that is the case, by a longshot.”
Contrary to some people’s beliefs, we’re never thinking about what we should not do on an iPad because we don’t want to encroach on Mac or vice versa,” says Ternus. “Our focus is, what is the best way? What is the best iPad we can make what are the best Macs we can make. Some people are going to work across both of them, some people will kind of lean towards one because it better suits their needs and that’s, that’s all good.”
If you follow along, you’ll know that Apple studiously refuses to enter into the iPad vs. Mac debate — and in fact likes to place the iPad in a special place in the market that exists unchallenged. Joswiak often says that he doesn’t even like to say the word tablet.
“There’s iPads and tablets, and tablets aren’t very good. iPads are great,” Joswiak says. “We’re always pushing the boundaries with iPad Pro, and that’s what you want leaders to do. Leaders are the ones that push the boundaries leaders are the ones that take this further than has ever been taken before and the XDR display is a great example of that. Who else would you expect to do that other than us. And then once you see it, and once you use it, you won’t wonder, you’ll be glad we did.”
You might want to rethink your position...but, you won't.
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
This is a catch-22. If Apple allows macOS on the iPad Pro when in laptop mode, the potential downside is that developers have little incentive to develop apps that are touch-first and optimized for iPadOS.
Imagine how bad reception for the iPad would have been if changing from Landscape to Portrait required a reboot and information might be trapped in one Version of the OS not the other.
How is dual boot mac/pad any different?
Will always be better user experience for Apple to make iPadOS better and push developers to adapt. I can't see Apple going the easy way here.
After all what more does iPadOS need to do to make it easier for Mac Developers to cross-over they could make more and more default behaviour widgets to help streamline. A good thing for users either way but in the end each app has some unique interactions they need to convert to hybrid touch/mouse before they can offer an iPadPro Version that won't seem half baked.
They are totally different. You are comparing two different things.
But yes, it may be better if Apple brought iPadOS up to par with MacOS (Although many seem to think that a merged OS is not a good idea). But regardlless, they do not seem likely to do that -- at least not anytime soon.
So, some sort of switching to the appropriate OS is the quickest, easiest way to providing the M1 iPad with its full potential: And, it could be as optional as Bootcamp is now: "You are in laptop mode, do you want to switch to MacOS?"
Sorry I'd say they are very likely to bring iPadOS up to speed they are just taking their sweet time about it.
Look at everything they done with Dev tools and API in iPadOS and iOS and it seems to me they have been setting up for an overhaul.
The quickest thing they could do tomorrow (given I can rent a PC in the cloud and do this today if I can handle windows) would be remote access macOS.
Again seem an odd holdout Apple don't have a hot desk with iPad as dongle solution.
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
This is a catch-22. If Apple allows macOS on the iPad Pro when in laptop mode, the potential downside is that developers have little incentive to develop apps that are touch-first and optimized for iPadOS.
Imagine how bad reception for the iPad would have been if changing from Landscape to Portrait required a reboot and information might be trapped in one Version of the OS not the other.
How is dual boot mac/pad any different?
Will always be better user experience for Apple to make iPadOS better and push developers to adapt. I can't see Apple going the easy way here.
After all what more does iPadOS need to do to make it easier for Mac Developers to cross-over they could make more and more default behaviour widgets to help streamline. A good thing for users either way but in the end each app has some unique interactions they need to convert to hybrid touch/mouse before they can offer an iPadPro Version that won't seem half baked.
They are totally different. You are comparing two different things.
But yes, it may be better if Apple brought iPadOS up to par with MacOS (Although many seem to think that a merged OS is not a good idea). But regardlless, they do not seem likely to do that -- at least not anytime soon.
So, some sort of switching to the appropriate OS is the quickest, easiest way to providing the M1 iPad with its full potential: And, it could be as optional as Bootcamp is now: "You are in laptop mode, do you want to switch to MacOS?"
That would be right up there with the worst user experience ever, and there isn't a chance in hell of Apple ever doing that.
Why?
The worst user experience is trying to do Mac level stuff on weak iPadOS. It's horrible.
Allowing the user to switch to a more appropriate OS if they want to would solve that.
No really.
It's called an iPad, not a Mac. The iPad is not intended, nor will it, mimic the Mac, so your report of the "horrible" user experience really missed the fucking point.
Like complaining about my not being able to load full sheets of plywood into the trunk of my Volvo; it was never intended for that.
Ahem. This is the part where you go buy a Surface and move on.
Thanks for agreeing with my point: the iPad sucks at doing MacOS stuff.
That's why it needs to be able to run MacOS when it is needed and the user desires it. Now that M1 Macs and M1 iPads are using the same hardware (except for input devices) there's no technical reason why the M1 iPad can't be upgraded to run either iPadOS or MacOS as the need and the configuration arises. Any restrictions along those lines are strictly administrative and/or marketing -- and both are beneath Apple. They are something a lesser company would pull.
I'll wait to see how Apple and developers flesh out the M1 iPad Pro's without Mac OS, thanks, but you can keep ranting about it, and dissing Apple indefinitely, as if that will make any difference.
"This is my favorite question because you know, you have one camp of people who believe that the iPad and the Mac are at war with one another right it’s one or the other to the death. And then you have others who are like, no, they’re bringing them together — they’re forcing them into one single platform and there’s a grand conspiracy here,” he says.
“They are at opposite ends of a thought spectrum and the reality is that neither is correct. We pride ourselves in the fact that we work really, really, really hard to have the best products in the respective categories. The Mac is the best personal computer, it just is. Customer satisfaction would indicate that is the case, by a longshot.”
Contrary to some people’s beliefs, we’re never thinking about what we should not do on an iPad because we don’t want to encroach on Mac or vice versa,” says Ternus. “Our focus is, what is the best way? What is the best iPad we can make what are the best Macs we can make. Some people are going to work across both of them, some people will kind of lean towards one because it better suits their needs and that’s, that’s all good.”
If you follow along, you’ll know that Apple studiously refuses to enter into the iPad vs. Mac debate — and in fact likes to place the iPad in a special place in the market that exists unchallenged. Joswiak often says that he doesn’t even like to say the word tablet.
“There’s iPads and tablets, and tablets aren’t very good. iPads are great,” Joswiak says. “We’re always pushing the boundaries with iPad Pro, and that’s what you want leaders to do. Leaders are the ones that push the boundaries leaders are the ones that take this further than has ever been taken before and the XDR display is a great example of that. Who else would you expect to do that other than us. And then once you see it, and once you use it, you won’t wonder, you’ll be glad we did.”
You might want to rethink your position...but, you won't.
Contrary to some people’s beliefs, we’re never thinking about what we should not do on an iPad because we don’t want to encroach on Mac or vice versa - Isn't this in-line with what people like George, myself and few others are suggesting?
I don't know man. This feels like typical Apple: deny, deny, deny the thing. Right up until the moment they introduce the thing. I just feel like MacOS has been slowly but surely iOSified (iPadOSified if you will) more and more. Could I just be reinforcing my preconceived notions with non-coincidental coincidences? Probably. Likely.
It hasn’t tho. They’ve added a couple things on the surface, like the notifications center. But fundamentally Mac computing is a different use case and user experience.
They’ve been saying this perfectly clearly for years now. Does that mean there will never be a next-thing? No. But Jos was clear, just like Craig was clear.
You really like using that graphic huh? As for the OS unification, I freely admit I could be wrong and admitted as much in the comment you quoted. The clarity of their statements means little in this circumstance though. Previous declarations about different things were just as emphatic, right up to the point they weren't. As I said, it's just a feeling. It's not a prognostication or anything grand. If it turns out I'm wrong, no big deal. If it turns out I'm right I'm an omniscient all seeing God. I can live with either outcome.
They weren't nearly as emphatic. And the market around them changed in some cases. So if another company like MS, or Samsung produced a hybrid device that was actually useful then they would think about it. For now they clearly mean what they have said. Its not like they are not trying to make cross ( Apple) platform coding easier, they are working full belt on that, SwiftUI being the most portable. In the middle of these efforts they are clearly saying - no merging.
And the history of the operating systems that Apple produces is one of divergence, not convergence. From OS X, to iOS, iPad Os, watchOS and tvOS.
George is absolutely correct on this topic. He is NOT asking for merging the iOS and MacOS. He is simply expecting 2 different OSes to run in same hardware which is very much capable of doing that (M1 iPad Pro) in different scenarios, based on user selection. There is NOTHING out of ordinary in that ask from George. It is a perfectly valid expectation.
IF Apple does not take this path, the ONLY reason would be shareholder's interest - i.e. sell 2 devices to customers to increase revenue instead of selling 1 device which is capable of performing both the functions (tablet & laptop) equally well. If that is the decision that Apple takes, then that would be a bad move on the part of Apple. We will have to wait and see which way they go.
No, it's not a "perfectly valid expectation." Apple designs their hardware and operating systems concurrently as single units. They don't create generic hardware to run whatever you want to put on it. This is why their devices work as well as they do. Slapping MacOS into an iPad because some guy on a message board insists that it ought to work ok is ridiculous. It's not about greedily selling two devices instead of one. It's about not selling mismatched devices that undermine their entire business model just because some small segment of the market can't get past their fantasy narrative of "what Apple should do."
Or a different merging of a car and Truck would be the SUV which Are extremely popular with Americans.
Australia has UTE's, which are analogous to the car with beds, like the Ford Ranchero, and Chevrolet El Camino, and there are some SUV's that have this, but it isn't the defining feature.
Regarding the OP, I doubt that Apple will even consider a 2 in 1 until long after they have fully transition to Apple Silicon, and if it does happen, it will be new product category sitting between Mac Book Air/Mac Book Pro's, and the iPad. Heck, I'd expect an Folding iPhone Pro with USB4 long before a 2 in 1, and I'd be skeptical if that will ever happen either.
That's a nice way of stating that Mac OS will never run on an iPad. iPad is best in its class, tablets, and Apple won't want to risk that.
Apple already has a 2 in 1. It's the iPad Pro with its Magic Keyboard. The trouble is they have not upgraded the OS to be as powerful as that of MacOS or Windows. But that is a very fixable problem and they seem to be working on it -- chugging along slowly but steadily.
But, as has been pointed out, they now also have the option of switching to MacOS when the device is in laptop mode and then back to iPadOS when it's in tablet mode.
Apple has a number of ways to go there.
This is a catch-22. If Apple allows macOS on the iPad Pro when in laptop mode, the potential downside is that developers have little incentive to develop apps that are touch-first and optimized for iPadOS.
Imagine how bad reception for the iPad would have been if changing from Landscape to Portrait required a reboot and information might be trapped in one Version of the OS not the other.
How is dual boot mac/pad any different?
Will always be better user experience for Apple to make iPadOS better and push developers to adapt. I can't see Apple going the easy way here.
After all what more does iPadOS need to do to make it easier for Mac Developers to cross-over they could make more and more default behaviour widgets to help streamline. A good thing for users either way but in the end each app has some unique interactions they need to convert to hybrid touch/mouse before they can offer an iPadPro Version that won't seem half baked.
They are totally different. You are comparing two different things.
But yes, it may be better if Apple brought iPadOS up to par with MacOS (Although many seem to think that a merged OS is not a good idea). But regardlless, they do not seem likely to do that -- at least not anytime soon.
So, some sort of switching to the appropriate OS is the quickest, easiest way to providing the M1 iPad with its full potential: And, it could be as optional as Bootcamp is now: "You are in laptop mode, do you want to switch to MacOS?"
That would be right up there with the worst user experience ever, and there isn't a chance in hell of Apple ever doing that.
Why?
The worst user experience is trying to do Mac level stuff on weak iPadOS. It's horrible.
Allowing the user to switch to a more appropriate OS if they want to would solve that.
No really.
It's called an iPad, not a Mac. The iPad is not intended, nor will it, mimic the Mac, so your report of the "horrible" user experience really missed the fucking point.
Like complaining about my not being able to load full sheets of plywood into the trunk of my Volvo; it was never intended for that.
Ahem. This is the part where you go buy a Surface and move on.
Thanks for agreeing with my point: the iPad sucks at doing MacOS stuff.
That's why it needs to be able to run MacOS when it is needed and the user desires it. Now that M1 Macs and M1 iPads are using the same hardware (except for input devices) there's no technical reason why the M1 iPad can't be upgraded to run either iPadOS or MacOS as the need and the configuration arises. Any restrictions along those lines are strictly administrative and/or marketing -- and both are beneath Apple. They are something a lesser company would pull.
I'll wait to see how Apple and developers flesh out the M1 iPad Pro's without Mac OS, thanks, but you can keep ranting about it, and dissing Apple indefinitely, as if that will make any difference.
"This is my favorite question because you know, you have one camp of people who believe that the iPad and the Mac are at war with one another right it’s one or the other to the death. And then you have others who are like, no, they’re bringing them together — they’re forcing them into one single platform and there’s a grand conspiracy here,” he says.
“They are at opposite ends of a thought spectrum and the reality is that neither is correct. We pride ourselves in the fact that we work really, really, really hard to have the best products in the respective categories. The Mac is the best personal computer, it just is. Customer satisfaction would indicate that is the case, by a longshot.”
Contrary to some people’s beliefs, we’re never thinking about what we should not do on an iPad because we don’t want to encroach on Mac or vice versa,” says Ternus. “Our focus is, what is the best way? What is the best iPad we can make what are the best Macs we can make. Some people are going to work across both of them, some people will kind of lean towards one because it better suits their needs and that’s, that’s all good.”
If you follow along, you’ll know that Apple studiously refuses to enter into the iPad vs. Mac debate — and in fact likes to place the iPad in a special place in the market that exists unchallenged. Joswiak often says that he doesn’t even like to say the word tablet.
“There’s iPads and tablets, and tablets aren’t very good. iPads are great,” Joswiak says. “We’re always pushing the boundaries with iPad Pro, and that’s what you want leaders to do. Leaders are the ones that push the boundaries leaders are the ones that take this further than has ever been taken before and the XDR display is a great example of that. Who else would you expect to do that other than us. And then once you see it, and once you use it, you won’t wonder, you’ll be glad we did.”
You might want to rethink your position...but, you won't.
Contrary to some people’s beliefs, we’re never thinking about what we should not do on an iPad because we don’t want to encroach on Mac or vice versa - Isn't this in-line with what people like George, myself and few others are suggesting?
Only if you are misreading the link, because it is apparent that Apple is not going to put Mac OS on the iPad. If you think about it, and most haven't, the iPad was always about appealing to people that were not versed in traditional computing, and wanted something that was more in line with content viewing and creation, which are notably easy on the iPad.
Comments
Thank you. Well said.
I still can't find the logic (or accuracy) in any of that. Sorry.
It's called an iPad, not a Mac. The iPad is not intended, nor will it, mimic the Mac, so your report of the "horrible" user experience really missed the fucking point.
Like complaining about my not being able to load full sheets of plywood into the trunk of my Volvo; it was never intended for that.
Ahem. This is the part where you go buy a Surface and move on.
All my Huawei off device user data is held on servers physically located in the EU with GDPR compliance in mind and by an EU company wholly owned Huawei (Aspiegel SE). Everything is fully certified by the relative bodies. The data that is sent outside the EU or to partners under contract to enable worlwide use of HUAWEI IDs is detailed in their easy to read privacy statement.
The core of Huawei ID privacy that has the EU's Privacy Seal certification.
Technically speaking the OS is multi kernel too with a kernel abstraction layer. HarmonyOS 1.0 was deployed for devices from 128KB to 128MB RAM. HarmonyOS 2.0 will include devices from 128MB to 4GB of RAM.
Huawei is also claiming that code size is reduced.
Huawei also has its Ascend line of processors which provide scaled processing options at a hardware level. From Ascend-Nano for devices like earbuds up to Ascend Max for Data Centres and AI inference clusters. There are Ascend Tiny, Lite and Mini processors too, and as a group, cover all scenarios and do it using a unified architecture (DaVinci).
None of that points to anything remotely like bloatware but does point to varying degrees of efficiency.
https://blog.huawei.com/2019/02/05/activating-ai-power-with-the-ascend-chipset/
People wanting a Mac tablet aren't going to get there by wishing that their iPad ran Mac OS. If it happens, it will be a new product line, not an enhancement/alteration of the existing products.
Good that you don't work at Apple. They would still be pushing out the Apple II because, well, there's just no need for anything better.
https://techcrunch.com/2021/04/25/interview-apple-executives-on-the-2021-ipad-pro-stunting-with-the-m1-and-creating-headroom/
"This is my favorite question because you know, you have one camp of people who believe that the iPad and the Mac are at war with one another right it’s one or the other to the death. And then you have others who are like, no, they’re bringing them together — they’re forcing them into one single platform and there’s a grand conspiracy here,” he says.
“They are at opposite ends of a thought spectrum and the reality is that neither is correct. We pride ourselves in the fact that we work really, really, really hard to have the best products in the respective categories. The Mac is the best personal computer, it just is. Customer satisfaction would indicate that is the case, by a longshot.”
Contrary to some people’s beliefs, we’re never thinking about what we should not do on an iPad because we don’t want to encroach on Mac or vice versa,” says Ternus. “Our focus is, what is the best way? What is the best iPad we can make what are the best Macs we can make. Some people are going to work across both of them, some people will kind of lean towards one because it better suits their needs and that’s, that’s all good.”If you follow along, you’ll know that Apple studiously refuses to enter into the iPad vs. Mac debate — and in fact likes to place the iPad in a special place in the market that exists unchallenged. Joswiak often says that he doesn’t even like to say the word tablet.
“There’s iPads and tablets, and tablets aren’t very good. iPads are great,” Joswiak says. “We’re always pushing the boundaries with iPad Pro, and that’s what you want leaders to do. Leaders are the ones that push the boundaries leaders are the ones that take this further than has ever been taken before and the XDR display is a great example of that. Who else would you expect to do that other than us. And then once you see it, and once you use it, you won’t wonder, you’ll be glad we did.”
You might want to rethink your position...but, you won't.