Apple to debut 8-inch foldable iPhone in 2023, Kuo says

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 47
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,309member
    avon b7 said:
    leighr said:
    The problem is that people have much higher expectations of Apple. We expect Samsung phones to be rubbish, poorly built, and for the folding seam to give way after 6-12 months. That’s Samsung, that’s what we expect.  But if Apple delivered such a device, its customers, let alone the media, would not tolerate it (even though the media quite happily accepts Samsung’s “it’s not meant to be touched roughly or with fingernails” caveat). So, until the technology exists for Apple to do it properly, they won’t do it - that’s what Samsung is for. 
    There's a bit of RDF in there.

    Apple has had its fair share of build quality and finish issues and they have been pretty serious. Many are well documented and some (but not all) admitted by the company. 

    The likes of Samsung and Huawei can and do produce amazing build quality and finish. 


    For some reason people fail to understand what sets Apple products apart is not hardware, its not the software, its not the ecosystem.   But its all of those together where the Whole is Greater Than the Sum of the Parts.

    Particularly in hardware, the industry caught up to Apple long ago.   Now, one is ahead for short while, then they others catchup and pass them by, then the first passes them by....   And on, and on....  Back and forth.

    Right now Apple is behind in foldable phones.   But they'll catchup and pass Huawei & others by.  But then those guys will catch up.  But none is likely to match Apple's total product.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 47
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,309member
    AppleZulu said:
    It seems Apple will need to either catch up or give up.   Foldable phones are coming.   Or, maybe they are here already.  Regardless, in either case, they are not going away.

    Huawei Mate X2: Mastering the folding phone formula

    "Huawei has revealed the third iteration of its folding smartphone, abandoning its previous designs and taking some inspiration from Samsung.

    This time, the folding display on the Mate X2 is protected inside the phone.

    BBC Click's Chris Fox went hands-on with the phone and described it as the best folding phone so far - but it still lacks Google services, which lets it down for UK consumers."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-56945791

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The lines between the different product categories in the world of computers are becoming increasingly grey:

    --  Laptops long ago began to challenge desktops for speed and capacity.   Now tablets are starting to challenge laptops in the same way.

    --  The iPad is challenging the Mac as a laptop as a functional alternative (while 2 in 1's have already merged the two products into one)

    --  Now smart phones are challenging the tablet world.   This Huawei folding phone provides the same screen real estate as an iPad mini -- in a form factor you can carry in your pocket.

    Meanwhile, Apple continues to try to keep the old rigid lines between categories and has only yielded grudgingly to blurring the line between tablet and laptop.  But, soon it will be facing pressure to blur the line between phone and tablet.

    But, that can't last.   Just as soft moving water wears away the hardest rock, moving technology wears away the hardest purity tests.
    Perhaps the analogy is Steve Jobs insistence on keeping the iPhone small -- because he thought of his iPhone primarily as a phone rather than a computer. But the world of technology didn't wait.   It moved on to large screened phones and Apple, with the iPhone 6, was forced to surrender and join the wave...




    1) “Entering” and “challenging” are not synonymous.

    2) The Huawei folding screen appears to be square, which doesn’t really fit anybody’s format for anything. As a result, the only things that will make use of its full screen will be customized for it, and since no one is going to spend three grand on a novelty phone, no one will write customized software to use the square screen. Everything else will leave wasted space.

    3) The screen can be permanently damaged by a human fingernail. It comes with a warning about keeping dirt and sand away from it. That screen is guaranteed to be marred within days of purchase. This tech isn’t challenging anything, other than the wisdom of the few rich millennials foolish enough to buy one.

    .... And those new fangled horseless carriages are too loud and can only go on smooth roads.   Nobody but rich play boys will ever buy them.
  • Reply 43 of 47
    PezaPeza Posts: 195member
    A division of my company develops a lot of these screen technologies, it pretty much ends up in almost every device with a screen including Apple. That's as far as I know about it though, but bendable screens is a tech being developed so I guess one day it'll be cheap and reliable. 
    For now I'd rather keep my flat screen though, even the Mini that I want to look at. I think foldable screens make more sense for tablets but I guess as Apple is the only real success in this market, then everyone wants to bring foldable screen tech to phones, so Apple will follow suite, and no doubt charge a ridiculous price for it.

    For me the best implementation I've seen of it is the Motorola Razr, but that's proves to be pretty unreliable.
  • Reply 44 of 47
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,205member
    AppleZulu said:
    It seems Apple will need to either catch up or give up.   Foldable phones are coming.   Or, maybe they are here already.  Regardless, in either case, they are not going away.

    Huawei Mate X2: Mastering the folding phone formula

    "Huawei has revealed the third iteration of its folding smartphone, abandoning its previous designs and taking some inspiration from Samsung.

    This time, the folding display on the Mate X2 is protected inside the phone.

    BBC Click's Chris Fox went hands-on with the phone and described it as the best folding phone so far - but it still lacks Google services, which lets it down for UK consumers."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-56945791

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The lines between the different product categories in the world of computers are becoming increasingly grey:

    --  Laptops long ago began to challenge desktops for speed and capacity.   Now tablets are starting to challenge laptops in the same way.

    --  The iPad is challenging the Mac as a laptop as a functional alternative (while 2 in 1's have already merged the two products into one)

    --  Now smart phones are challenging the tablet world.   This Huawei folding phone provides the same screen real estate as an iPad mini -- in a form factor you can carry in your pocket.

    Meanwhile, Apple continues to try to keep the old rigid lines between categories and has only yielded grudgingly to blurring the line between tablet and laptop.  But, soon it will be facing pressure to blur the line between phone and tablet.

    But, that can't last.   Just as soft moving water wears away the hardest rock, moving technology wears away the hardest purity tests.
    Perhaps the analogy is Steve Jobs insistence on keeping the iPhone small -- because he thought of his iPhone primarily as a phone rather than a computer. But the world of technology didn't wait.   It moved on to large screened phones and Apple, with the iPhone 6, was forced to surrender and join the wave...




    1) “Entering” and “challenging” are not synonymous.

    2) The Huawei folding screen appears to be square, which doesn’t really fit anybody’s format for anything. As a result, the only things that will make use of its full screen will be customized for it, and since no one is going to spend three grand on a novelty phone, no one will write customized software to use the square screen. Everything else will leave wasted space.

    3) The screen can be permanently damaged by a human fingernail. It comes with a warning about keeping dirt and sand away from it. That screen is guaranteed to be marred within days of purchase. This tech isn’t challenging anything, other than the wisdom of the few rich millennials foolish enough to buy one.

    .... And those new fangled horseless carriages are too loud and can only go on smooth roads.   Nobody but rich play boys will ever buy them.
    For every brilliant, successful idea, there are innumerate bad and failing ideas. Just because automobiles succeeded despite the contemporary skeptics does not mean that every other idea that faces skepticism will also be a smashing success. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 47
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,205member

    avon b7 said:
    leighr said:
    The problem is that people have much higher expectations of Apple. We expect Samsung phones to be rubbish, poorly built, and for the folding seam to give way after 6-12 months. That’s Samsung, that’s what we expect.  But if Apple delivered such a device, its customers, let alone the media, would not tolerate it (even though the media quite happily accepts Samsung’s “it’s not meant to be touched roughly or with fingernails” caveat). So, until the technology exists for Apple to do it properly, they won’t do it - that’s what Samsung is for. 
    There's a bit of RDF in there.

    Apple has had its fair share of build quality and finish issues and they have been pretty serious. Many are well documented and some (but not all) admitted by the company. 

    The likes of Samsung and Huawei can and do produce amazing build quality and finish. 


    For some reason people fail to understand what sets Apple products apart is not hardware, its not the software, its not the ecosystem.   But its all of those together where the Whole is Greater Than the Sum of the Parts.

    Particularly in hardware, the industry caught up to Apple long ago.   Now, one is ahead for short while, then they others catchup and pass them by, then the first passes them by....   And on, and on....  Back and forth.

    Right now Apple is behind in foldable phones.   But they'll catchup and pass Huawei & others by.  But then those guys will catch up.  But none is likely to match Apple's total product.
    You're right about the part with the whole being greater than the sum of its parts for Apple, which is funny, because you seem to miss this point entirely when proposing obtuse implementations of multiple operating systems on the same tablet, etc.

    The bit about the industry catching up to Apple on hardware is dubious, at best.

    Apple could only be "behind" with regard to foldable phones if they actually plan to develop one. They will only do that if they see a compelling reason to create one, and have a concept and design that functions smoothly and conveniently in a way the current dabblers are failing to do. (The Huawei example shown above wouldn't make it past an initial concept meeting at Apple. It's a functional mess and a design quality failure.) If Apple doesn't see a way to make one their way, they won't make one anyway just because others are, too. If they're not going to make one, then they're not behind at all. They don't have to make any particular device if they don't choose to. For instance, they are not "behind" in developing a 2-in-1 tablet/notebook hybrid, because they aren't planning to make one at all, as they've repeatedly stated. Even with regard to any given category where they do plan to make something that others are already selling, that still doesn't mean they're "behind." There were smart watched before the Apple Watch was released, but they were poorly implemented, and not that many people bought them. Apple made their watch and within a few years, millions of people are wearing them. First, though, they had to come up with a compelling reason to make them at all, beyond just filling in a category check-box. 
    watto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 46 of 47
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,205member
    avon b7 said:
    AppleZulu said:
    avon b7 said:
    AppleZulu said:
    It seems Apple will need to either catch up or give up.   Foldable phones are coming.   Or, maybe they are here already.  Regardless, in either case, they are not going away.

    Huawei Mate X2: Mastering the folding phone formula

    "Huawei has revealed the third iteration of its folding smartphone, abandoning its previous designs and taking some inspiration from Samsung.

    This time, the folding display on the Mate X2 is protected inside the phone.

    BBC Click's Chris Fox went hands-on with the phone and described it as the best folding phone so far - but it still lacks Google services, which lets it down for UK consumers."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-56945791

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The lines between the different product categories in the world of computers are becoming increasingly grey:

    --  Laptops long ago began to challenge desktops for speed and capacity.   Now tablets are starting to challenge laptops in the same way.

    --  The iPad is challenging the Mac as a laptop as a functional alternative (while 2 in 1's have already merged the two products into one)

    --  Now smart phones are challenging the tablet world.   This Huawei folding phone provides the same screen real estate as an iPad mini -- in a form factor you can carry in your pocket.

    Meanwhile, Apple continues to try to keep the old rigid lines between categories and has only yielded grudgingly to blurring the line between tablet and laptop.  But, soon it will be facing pressure to blur the line between phone and tablet.

    But, that can't last.   Just as soft moving water wears away the hardest rock, moving technology wears away the hardest purity tests.
    Perhaps the analogy is Steve Jobs insistence on keeping the iPhone small -- because he thought of his iPhone primarily as a phone rather than a computer. But the world of technology didn't wait.   It moved on to large screened phones and Apple, with the iPhone 6, was forced to surrender and join the wave...




    1) “Entering” and “challenging” are not synonymous.

    2) The Huawei folding screen appears to be square, which doesn’t really fit anybody’s format for anything. As a result, the only things that will make use of its full screen will be customized for it, and since no one is going to spend three grand on a novelty phone, no one will write customized software to use the square screen. Everything else will leave wasted space.

    3) The screen can be permanently damaged by a human fingernail. It comes with a warning about keeping dirt and sand away from it. That screen is guaranteed to be marred within days of purchase. This tech isn’t challenging anything, other than the wisdom of the few rich millennials foolish enough to buy one.
    An almost square aspect ratio is not an issue.

    More screen will always prevail over aspect ratio.

    Simply try doing anything and comparing to a regular screen. More positives than negatives. Yes, video content will be letterboxed - but still larger than on most regular phones. The same applies to photos. 

    The rest of the time, just having that space available is a plus. Writing, interface elements, notifications, running apps side by side. 

    All of that would be much worse on a regular phone but if you really want a cramped experience, fold it up and use the smaller screen! 

    And of course, don't deliberately dig your nails into the inner screen.

    You miss the point. Human fingernails are not hard things. A touchscreen that can be damaged by a fingernail can also be damaged by a wide array of other objects that are likely to be proximate at any given point. The thing is crap. 

    Also, noting your comment about folding it up to use the smaller screen raises another preposterous design issue. To get the big foldy screen on a phone, they have little choice but to add a second screen to the same device, which is nuts. Nobody would unfold it and use that as a phone, and nobody would fold it and use a phone without access to a screen. They certainly can’t have it fold the other way with the big screen on the outside. That would be damaged just getting it out of the package. Nope, it’s got to be a device with two screens. It’s an expensive design fiasco before you even turn it on, all just for the novelty of a folding screen. 
    You seem completely out of touch with the realities of folding phones.

    There are basically three main options. Inward folding, outward folding and flip folding.

    Are you saying that an inward folding device without a second screen would be a viable option? Are you telling me that you can't see why it isn't a preposterous idea?

    It adds cost to the device of course but it serves a valid purpose. If you cannot afford the asking price, just don't buy.

    A folding phone gives you more space when you need it. It's a huge advantage. The other advantage is that if you don't need that space you don't unfold it. That's the whole point. 

    The outward folding display means no extra screen is required but exposes the screen when folded, making a case a good idea.

    Of course, cases aren't a folding phone thing so there is no difference to the regular phone world.

    Nails are not a problem. Digging them into the screen is so just don't dig them into the screen.

    When review after review is sold on the benefits of folding phones (even with reviewers who were sceptical) you know the 'novelty' aspect has gone. 
    "Are you saying that an inward folding device without a second screen would be a viable option?"

    No. I wrote precisely the opposite thing. 

     "Are you telling me that you can't see why it isn't a preposterous idea?"

    See above.

    "It [a second screen] adds cost to the device of course but it serves a valid purpose."

    This is where we differ. It's an unartful, obtuse and expensive workaround, just to add a folding screen that's more novelty than utility.

    "The outward folding display means no extra screen is required but exposes the screen when folded, making a case a good idea.

    Of course, cases aren't a folding phone thing so there is no difference to the regular phone world."

    There is a difference, you know. My iPhone case rarely comes off my iPhone. A phone case for your outward-folding device would have to be removable. Now you have an extra thing you have to set down and keep track of. Then -particularly if the screen is that soft material in the Huawei demo video- you would have to be religiously vigilant about not folding and setting the device down without first putting it back in the case. Setting it (or accidentally dropping it) unprotected on any object harder than your soft, flexible fingernails (including dust, dirt or sand) would damage the screen. Worse, holding this version of the device to one's ear like a phone would require taking it out of its case to answer the phone or place a call, or it would otherwise require some sort of door in one side of the case, and software to make that door portion of the screen function like a smaller phone screen. What if the user has earrings, glasses, or other adornments that are harder than your soft, flexible fingernails? Screen damage!  So an inward-folding phone needs an expensive, rigid, extra screen. An outward-folding phone needs a removable case, maybe with a little door in it to use the phone. Neither implementation would get past the laughter at an initial pitch meeting at Apple.

    "Nails are not a problem. Digging them into the screen is so just don't dig them into the screen."

    Remember the whole iPhone 4 antennagate "you're holding it wrong" controversy for Apple? Blaming users for having fingernails too close to their fingertips would be that, but on steroids. So, you know. Nope.
  • Reply 47 of 47
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,309member
    AppleZulu said:
    AppleZulu said:
    It seems Apple will need to either catch up or give up.   Foldable phones are coming.   Or, maybe they are here already.  Regardless, in either case, they are not going away.

    Huawei Mate X2: Mastering the folding phone formula

    "Huawei has revealed the third iteration of its folding smartphone, abandoning its previous designs and taking some inspiration from Samsung.

    This time, the folding display on the Mate X2 is protected inside the phone.

    BBC Click's Chris Fox went hands-on with the phone and described it as the best folding phone so far - but it still lacks Google services, which lets it down for UK consumers."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-56945791

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The lines between the different product categories in the world of computers are becoming increasingly grey:

    --  Laptops long ago began to challenge desktops for speed and capacity.   Now tablets are starting to challenge laptops in the same way.

    --  The iPad is challenging the Mac as a laptop as a functional alternative (while 2 in 1's have already merged the two products into one)

    --  Now smart phones are challenging the tablet world.   This Huawei folding phone provides the same screen real estate as an iPad mini -- in a form factor you can carry in your pocket.

    Meanwhile, Apple continues to try to keep the old rigid lines between categories and has only yielded grudgingly to blurring the line between tablet and laptop.  But, soon it will be facing pressure to blur the line between phone and tablet.

    But, that can't last.   Just as soft moving water wears away the hardest rock, moving technology wears away the hardest purity tests.
    Perhaps the analogy is Steve Jobs insistence on keeping the iPhone small -- because he thought of his iPhone primarily as a phone rather than a computer. But the world of technology didn't wait.   It moved on to large screened phones and Apple, with the iPhone 6, was forced to surrender and join the wave...




    1) “Entering” and “challenging” are not synonymous.

    2) The Huawei folding screen appears to be square, which doesn’t really fit anybody’s format for anything. As a result, the only things that will make use of its full screen will be customized for it, and since no one is going to spend three grand on a novelty phone, no one will write customized software to use the square screen. Everything else will leave wasted space.

    3) The screen can be permanently damaged by a human fingernail. It comes with a warning about keeping dirt and sand away from it. That screen is guaranteed to be marred within days of purchase. This tech isn’t challenging anything, other than the wisdom of the few rich millennials foolish enough to buy one.

    .... And those new fangled horseless carriages are too loud and can only go on smooth roads.   Nobody but rich play boys will ever buy them.
    For every brilliant, successful idea, there are innumerate bad and failing ideas. Just because automobiles succeeded despite the contemporary skeptics does not mean that every other idea that faces skepticism will also be a smashing success. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

    So true!  
    Actually, most new businesses and inventions fail.  Warren Buffet just talked about the horseless carriages I mentioned:  he said the country was filled with companies making them.  Almost all failed and are a forgotten detail of history.

    But, I think my point remains:  the superior technology did, ultimately, prevail.   It is perhaps one of the biggest advantages of the capitalist system:  the cream tends to rise to the top regardless of the inevitable nay-sayers.

    Likewise, I believe that folding screens on iPhones will ultimately become part of the mix:  while they have trade-offs, their potential advantages are just too great.
    ....  But, that's what capitalism is for:   to prove both the nay-sayers and the hopeless idealists wrong and let the best screen win.
    muthuk_vanalingam
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