Report finds AirTag enables 'inexpensive, effective stalking'

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 61
    rob55rob55 Posts: 1,291member
    leighr said:
    So, as usual, Apple is held to a different standard than everyone else. There’s Tile, Chipolo, Samsung and many others, that have been around for years (without any anti stalking facilities) and yet nothing is ever said. Apple produces a version WITH anti stalking, and they’re the ones who are criticised. It never ends. 
    It's easy when you are the biggest target in the shooting gallery. Doesn't matter that they're at least trying to do everything right, and make everyone happy.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 61
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,284member
    You know Apple must be onto a winner product when the FUD articles come out. It was the same b/s when the Apple Watch was being written up as a target for thieves because the sports band is easy to remove.

    The report is b/s for a variety of reasons:

    • The majority of stalking crime involves persons who are known to each other. However to stalk with a tracking device requires a stalker to get close enough to personally install it on the victim which isn't feasible. If the stalker knows the victim's location then tracking with an electronic device isn't the problem. In the hypothetical situation where the victim doesn't know the stalker, the same issues apply: getting close enough, and having already known the victim location. (Whereby the stalker can just follow the victim anyway.)
    • The device works best when placed in the open. This is why the accessories are all designed to leave the tracker exposed. One can't install the device to something like the underside of a car and expect it to work, the device is still limited by EM physics.
    • The tracker itself is linked to the owner. Stalking with this is like leaving your ID at a crime scene.
    • It's a highly publicised tracking device and alerts the victim, while being trivial to disable. Anyone that finds it will know what it is, especially when it's beeping at them.
    • If the software is smart enough to notify the user about being followed, it's smart enough to not publish that location.
    So stalking isn't the issue with this device, the issue with this device is that if an item is intentionally taken/stolen the tracker can be easily disabled. So it makes sense to attach it to low value items such as keys. For more expensive items the route is either an accessory that gives the tracker permanence or purchasing items which already include the hardware (such as the VanMoof bikes and most Apple devices.)

    Side note: It would only be "inexpensive" if it didn't require a $600 iPhone just to get started.
    I agree with most of your points. #3 is certainly the most compelling.
    Regarding your side note, the fact is hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people already own the $600 iPhone. They're not buying this as a $629 tracking system.
    dysamoriawatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 61
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    You know Apple must be onto a winner product when the FUD articles come out. It was the same b/s when the Apple Watch was being written up as a target for thieves because the sports band is easy to remove.

    The report is b/s for a variety of reasons:

    • The tracker itself is linked to the owner. Stalking with this is like leaving your ID at a crime scene.
    • It's a highly publicised tracking device and alerts the victim, while being trivial to disable. Anyone that finds it will know what it is, especially when it's beeping at them.
    • If the software is smart enough to notify the user about being followed, it's smart enough to not publish that location.
    These are mitigations, but the fact that they exist points to the problem.  And the report is clear that the safeguards Apple have put in are not as fully formed as they could be.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 24 of 61
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,006member
    The article also left out the fact that if the iPhone is not running iOS 14.5 or later, the 'missing' AirTag won't alert the nearby phone.  Not everyone installs the latest updates and some people still have phones that can't run iOS 14.  So chalk those people up with the Android users that won't know if an AirTag has been secretly planted on them.  It is also scary to know that you can be tracked for 3 days without being warned.

    Why this vital information was left out of the review is disturbing.  At least the Ars article mentioned this significant issue with AirTags.  One could be planted on your car and you would never know it.  It is also documented on how easy it is to disable the speaker too.
    iPhone users have an extraordinarily high uptake rate of iOS updates. This assertion won’t be true for very long. 
    cornchipwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 61
    sanssans Posts: 58member
     With the Find My network currently limited to iOS, Android users are unable to discover and be alerted to an AirTag that is traveling with them.

    Even if Apple where to make an Android version of the the app, I bet virtually no Android user would install it. The only way they would is if they got AirTags themselves, and at that point, it is no better (at least on Android) than Tile.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 61
    Well everyone knows that exceptions disprove the rule, so let's all be a Chicken Little and assume the absolute very worst not only *can* happen, but definitely *will* happen.

    Therefore we should all stay in our caves, being good luddites playing with rocks and sticks because that's the only way we'll stay safe and secure.
    Play with sticks?!? Are you crazy? You could put someone’s eye out that way. 
    Detnatorwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 61
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,069member
    A “casual study” tells me all I need to know. Must be a slow day @ the Washington post. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 61
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,123member
    You know Apple must be onto a winner product when the FUD articles come out. It was the same b/s when the Apple Watch was being written up as a target for thieves because the sports band is easy to remove.

    The report is b/s for a variety of reasons:

    • The majority of stalking crime involves persons who are known to each other. However to stalk with a tracking device requires a stalker to get close enough to personally install it on the victim which isn't feasible. If the stalker knows the victim's location then tracking with an electronic device isn't the problem. In the hypothetical situation where the victim doesn't know the stalker, the same issues apply: getting close enough, and having already known the victim location. (Whereby the stalker can just follow the victim anyway.)
    • The device works best when placed in the open. This is why the accessories are all designed to leave the tracker exposed. One can't install the device to something like the underside of a car and expect it to work, the device is still limited by EM physics.
    • The tracker itself is linked to the owner. Stalking with this is like leaving your ID at a crime scene.
    • It's a highly publicised tracking device and alerts the victim, while being trivial to disable. Anyone that finds it will know what it is, especially when it's beeping at them.
    • If the software is smart enough to notify the user about being followed, it's smart enough to not publish that location.
    So stalking isn't the issue with this device, the issue with this device is that if an item is intentionally taken/stolen the tracker can be easily disabled. So it makes sense to attach it to low value items such as keys. For more expensive items the route is either an accessory that gives the tracker permanence or purchasing items which already include the hardware (such as the VanMoof bikes and most Apple devices.)

    Side note: It would only be "inexpensive" if it didn't require a $600 iPhone just to get started.

    Despite your unhinged string of assumptions about the high degree of intelligence, technical savvy, motivation, and characteristics of the average stalker, stalking is, in fact, "an issue with this device" because it can provide a person's location without their knowledge.





    williamlondonDAalsethdysamoria
  • Reply 29 of 61
    ApplePoorApplePoor Posts: 286member
    An interesting fact. Your cell phone location is "known" to the cell towers down to probably a 50 foot circle. Your travels can be reconstructed at any time by the "authorities" as we have seen in many criminal cases. With the proper equipment, real time tracking is most likely possible with the same accuracy. Note this tracking capability is tied to the SIM card, so the brand or operating system of the cell phone is immaterial to this tracking capability.

    When this "tracking" capability became known, everyone was upset, yet we are all now using billions of cell phones with complete abandon.

    The majority of new vehicles have GPS tracking and can reconstruct your travels and even tell you where the car is parked. The law folks can see if you were speeding at the time of the accident.

    Another pertinent point, if you do not like this product, don't buy it. In today's world, if you don't want to be tracked. throw away your cell phones and computers, pay only with cash and walk everywhere wearing a face mask.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 61
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,123member
    Washington Post is an ignorant publication. By their logic, even easier to Stalk  with Tile 

    The article doesn't state that Tile is better or that AirTags are worse, nor does it argue that Apple has made it easier to stalk people or that tile-type trackers should be banned. The article examines the anti-stalking features implemented by Apple, and opines they are not sufficient. People are extrapolating too much from an article they have not read, or perhaps they read it and lack the mental capacity to process and understand the information. 
    muthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMacdysamoria
  • Reply 31 of 61
    There is another point that seems to be getting lost in the noise of this thread. This kind of monitoring is not the domain of stalkers only, perpetrators of domestic violence also use this type of coercive control. The added benefit for them, from what I can see is that the AirTag will never go into alert mode, as the tag comes home each night and never makes it to the three days away.

    I think the release of this product was probably a little premature, and more time needed to be put into the safety measures to stop this type of usage.
    williamlondondysamoria
  • Reply 32 of 61
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    ApplePoor said:
    An interesting fact. Your cell phone location is "known" to the cell towers down to probably a 50 foot circle. Your travels can be reconstructed at any time by the "authorities" as we have seen in many criminal cases. With the proper equipment, real time tracking is most likely possible with the same accuracy. Note this tracking capability is tied to the SIM card, so the brand or operating system of the cell phone is immaterial to this tracking capability.

    When this "tracking" capability became known, everyone was upset, yet we are all now using billions of cell phones with complete abandon.

    The majority of new vehicles have GPS tracking and can reconstruct your travels and even tell you where the car is parked. The law folks can see if you were speeding at the time of the accident.

    Another pertinent point, if you do not like this product, don't buy it. In today's world, if you don't want to be tracked. throw away your cell phones and computers, pay only with cash and walk everywhere wearing a face mask.
    An abusive partner is the issue, not that the police can locate you in the event of a crime. Outside of that I don't see some major privacy problem that's going to bite Apple in the butt.

    IMO Apple is going to be lucky if they avoid one of those major headline-grabbing " Airtag enables woman-in-hiding murder". That's an issue they're going to need to address much sooner than later. Something as simple as requiring ID confirmation before permitting notifications to be turned off and a one day rather than three for those on Android being tracked by an Apple user would be an easy start.
    edited May 2021 dysamoria
  • Reply 33 of 61
    Trey_LanceTrey_Lance Posts: 98member
    Reporter of The Wash Post wrote


    ” the device repeatedly sent messages to the phone and constantly chirped to warn”


    I mean, some people are just too stupid. Maybe Apple should had an exploding notification so maybe if the air tag blows off his leg, people will notice?




    EsquireCats
  • Reply 34 of 61
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,362member
    The good + evil duality of human nature is impossible to avoid. What would make AirTag as a product so amazingly awesome is what makes it so dangerous in the wrong hands. 

    It comes down to the product maker having to decide where to move the slider between the two extremes to achieve what they believe is a reasonable balance. No matter where they set the slider it will never be perfect. 

    An amazingly crafted kitchen knife that excels at cutting chores is equally adept as a weapon to inflict injury when in the wrong hands. 

    The shortcomings of AirTags is a human problem, not a product problem. Like humans, it can never be perfect. 
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 61
    hammeroftruthhammeroftruth Posts: 1,309member
    So according to my tech friends who work at Apple, most stalkers use their victim’s appleid and iPhone to track them. No airtag needed. 

    I get that the author of this article is concerned about stalking and privacy, but I think there are other “free” avenues to stalk someone which he isn’t looking at. 
    edited May 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 61
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,006member
    I haven't seen any commentary about a flip-side of this issue: Air Tags as evidence against stalkers. These devices are registered to a single user, and presumably leave a data trail on Apple servers somewhere. It's easy for a stalker to drop a tag in someone's bag, but not so easy to retrieve undetected later. Someone who finds a tag that someone else has placed in their effects could take it to the police. With a properly executed warrant, this could be end up as pretty clear evidence against a stalker who has used one to track someone. A few publicized instances of people being penalized for that, and many potential stalkers may ultimately hesitate to use tags for nefarious purposes.
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamEsquireCatsDetnatorjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 61
    "A casual study.."

    Stop right there. This is about as valid as a Twitter poll or "many people are saying." Either a study is done according to established protocols or it's not a study of any kind.
    DAalsethwilliamlondonDetnatorjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 61
    ApplePoorApplePoor Posts: 286member
    If anyone is in an abusive situation, why would they buy a tiny tracking device that could be used against them beats me.

    At some point, there is a burden of personal responsibility that comes into operation in most folks lives.

    A cheap throw away cell phone with a cash prepaid SIM card makes more sense than any brand of smart phone.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 61
    kiltedgreenkiltedgreen Posts: 599member
    And there’s always Facebook of course. Here we are at … we’re going to xxx tomorrow. My friend xxx and. Are off to yyy tonight … 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 61
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    "A casual study.."

    Stop right there. This is about as valid as a Twitter poll or "many people are saying." Either a study is done according to established protocols or it's not a study of any kind.
    What established protocols are there for studying how a brand new consumer device may be used by inventive stalkers in the real world?
    dysamoria
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