commentzilla said: If you cannot remember to bring your USB-C hub on the go, you'll probably forget your power supply, wallet and keys too.
Exactly. They have little USB-C to HDMI keychains, and if it were my job to give presentations regularly I'd just have one of those on me at all times. Anyone complaining about forgetting stuff that's required for their job, well not sure that's Apple's problem.
I'll take the HDMI port return if it doesn't reduce the number of other TB3 ports, I'll never ever use it but it won't offend me by being there.
While the sensationalist internet punditry likes to present a hell on earth that looks like this
Real professionals will find an elegant solution like this for home/office use, where with just one cable you get power and all the legacy ports your heart desires
Or if you don't want to pay Thunderbolt prices, maybe something like this will do the trick.
It even has a VGA port.
But in the end, the 1st image above generates clicks while the latter two are just boring SOLUTIONS.
Boring solutions that can end up costing a fair chunk on top of your MacBook price, take up a load of space in your bag, and because of the port layout end up making a cable mess.
I say that as a CalDigit TB3 Hub user, who also has an Anker 5 port dongle for away from home work. They're both great bits of kit, but if I could get the ports on a MacBook I'd definitely prefer it that way.
A fair chunk? The TB3 dock $299 the USBC hub $99. The combinations are too numerous to mention here and the prices vary anywhere from $49 to $349. You only buy what you need.
As for the cable mess you speak of, connecting 5 peripherals total, sticking out from the sides of your laptop does not create one?
I know how much my hubs cost thanks. Point is, if the ports had been on my MacBook I wouldn't have needed to buy them, and probably wouldn't have, saving myself a significant amount of money.
Cables that all stick out from the side of your laptop are easy to manage, can even be cable tied together possibly. Take a look at the UtechSmart hub that you posted a picture of. If it's fully loaded then cables will be splayed out in all directions, making a mess.
The ability to have a single cable to your laptop that provides power and breaks out several cables you'd otherwise be plugging and unplugging every time you switch locations is a life changing thing for the positive. Not sure why you'd fight that.
First, if a cable is ‘life changing,’ you need a better life, but to the point, what USB C does is trade the convenience of one port for the inconvenience of using adapters for everything.
You also fail to note that USB C is not all roses. There is one port, but the function of that port is undefined so you never know what features that port has. Beyond that, you don’t know what capabilities any given USB C cable has. USB 3? Power delivery? How much power? TB? TB 3 or 4? In some ways, one can argue that USB C is worse because of the added confusion.
There are some people on this site who’ve evidently never forgotten anything, for whom spending an extra $300 on a hub to make that life changing cable actually do what they need it to do is a negligible sum of pocket change, and for whom carrying around extra equipment is more convenient than just carrying their laptop. For the rest of the world it’s an inconvenience at best and even more frustrating when you consider it’s functionality that virtually every other laptop has, even a POS $250 Lenovo chrome book.
So if I understand you correctly, your ideal high end MBP would have what? 2 or 4 TB4 ports, 1 or 2 USBA ports, one HDMI port, one SD Card slot and one ethernet port. So in total 6-9 ports.
I suggest then you stop looking at Apple laptops because I doubt they’ll ever make everyone happy.
commentzilla said: If you cannot remember to bring your USB-C hub on the go, you'll probably forget your power supply, wallet and keys too.
Exactly. They have little USB-C to HDMI keychains, and if it were my job to give presentations regularly I'd just have one of those on me at all times. Anyone complaining about forgetting stuff that's required for their job, well not sure that's Apple's problem.
I'll take the HDMI port return if it doesn't reduce the number of other TB3 ports, I'll never ever use it but it won't offend me by being there.
While the sensationalist internet punditry likes to present a hell on earth that looks like this
Real professionals will find an elegant solution like this for home/office use, where with just one cable you get power and all the legacy ports your heart desires
Or if you don't want to pay Thunderbolt prices, maybe something like this will do the trick.
It even has a VGA port.
But in the end, the 1st image above generates clicks while the latter two are just boring SOLUTIONS.
Boring solutions that can end up costing a fair chunk on top of your MacBook price, take up a load of space in your bag, and because of the port layout end up making a cable mess.
I say that as a CalDigit TB3 Hub user, who also has an Anker 5 port dongle for away from home work. They're both great bits of kit, but if I could get the ports on a MacBook I'd definitely prefer it that way.
A fair chunk? The TB3 dock $299 the USBC hub $99. The combinations are too numerous to mention here and the prices vary anywhere from $49 to $349. You only buy what you need.
As for the cable mess you speak of, connecting 5 peripherals total, sticking out from the sides of your laptop does not create one?
I know how much my hubs cost thanks. Point is, if the ports had been on my MacBook I wouldn't have needed to buy them, and probably wouldn't have, saving myself a significant amount of money.
Cables that all stick out from the side of your laptop are easy to manage, can even be cable tied together possibly. Take a look at the UtechSmart hub that you posted a picture of. If it's fully loaded then cables will be splayed out in all directions, making a mess.
The ability to have a single cable to your laptop that provides power and breaks out several cables you'd otherwise be plugging and unplugging every time you switch locations is a life changing thing for the positive. Not sure why you'd fight that.
First, if a cable is ‘life changing,’ you need a better life, but to the point, what USB C does is trade the convenience of one port for the inconvenience of using adapters for everything.
You also fail to note that USB C is not all roses. There is one port, but the function of that port is undefined so you never know what features that port has. Beyond that, you don’t know what capabilities any given USB C cable has. USB 3? Power delivery? How much power? TB? TB 3 or 4? In some ways, one can argue that USB C is worse because of the added confusion.
There are some people on this site who’ve evidently never forgotten anything, for whom spending an extra $300 on a hub to make that life changing cable actually do what they need it to do is a negligible sum of pocket change, and for whom carrying around extra equipment is more convenient than just carrying their laptop. For the rest of the world it’s an inconvenience at best and even more frustrating when you consider it’s functionality that virtually every other laptop has, even a POS $250 Lenovo chrome book.
"Life changing" is a figure of speech. If you move between multiple desks on a near-daily basis, sometimes multiple times a day, having a single cable where previously you had say three or four in my case is most definitely an *improvement*.
Figuring any of those things out has not been difficult by any means — maybe you find it confusing, but I don't.
I'm talking about a dock you have at your desk(s) with everything set up once and stays where it is, I don't carry anything around with me. My power source, display and its USB-A power (for the ACD 30" DVI to mDP adapter), my audio interface, headphones/SD card/Ethernet/extra USB ports if I need them — are all in a single box under my monitor with cables tucked out of the way out of sight except for the single cable going to my MBP. Why you'd want to have to manually plug all that shit in every time when there's a simple tidy solution is beyond me. I set this all up once and generally never have to touch it, and it saves me a LOT of time and frustration messing with cables, so the "inconvenience" is really manufactured outrage here. Enjoy your POS Lenovo Chromebook and it's "functionality" lol.
commentzilla said: If you cannot remember to bring your USB-C hub on the go, you'll probably forget your power supply, wallet and keys too.
Exactly. They have little USB-C to HDMI keychains, and if it were my job to give presentations regularly I'd just have one of those on me at all times. Anyone complaining about forgetting stuff that's required for their job, well not sure that's Apple's problem.
I'll take the HDMI port return if it doesn't reduce the number of other TB3 ports, I'll never ever use it but it won't offend me by being there.
While the sensationalist internet punditry likes to present a hell on earth that looks like this
Real professionals will find an elegant solution like this for home/office use, where with just one cable you get power and all the legacy ports your heart desires
Or if you don't want to pay Thunderbolt prices, maybe something like this will do the trick.
It even has a VGA port.
But in the end, the 1st image above generates clicks while the latter two are just boring SOLUTIONS.
Boring solutions that can end up costing a fair chunk on top of your MacBook price, take up a load of space in your bag, and because of the port layout end up making a cable mess.
I say that as a CalDigit TB3 Hub user, who also has an Anker 5 port dongle for away from home work. They're both great bits of kit, but if I could get the ports on a MacBook I'd definitely prefer it that way.
A fair chunk? The TB3 dock $299 the USBC hub $99. The combinations are too numerous to mention here and the prices vary anywhere from $49 to $349. You only buy what you need.
As for the cable mess you speak of, connecting 5 peripherals total, sticking out from the sides of your laptop does not create one?
I know how much my hubs cost thanks. Point is, if the ports had been on my MacBook I wouldn't have needed to buy them, and probably wouldn't have, saving myself a significant amount of money.
Cables that all stick out from the side of your laptop are easy to manage, can even be cable tied together possibly. Take a look at the UtechSmart hub that you posted a picture of. If it's fully loaded then cables will be splayed out in all directions, making a mess.
The ability to have a single cable to your laptop that provides power and breaks out several cables you'd otherwise be plugging and unplugging every time you switch locations is a life changing thing for the positive. Not sure why you'd fight that.
First, if a cable is ‘life changing,’ you need a better life, but to the point, what USB C does is trade the convenience of one port for the inconvenience of using adapters for everything.
You also fail to note that USB C is not all roses. There is one port, but the function of that port is undefined so you never know what features that port has. Beyond that, you don’t know what capabilities any given USB C cable has. USB 3? Power delivery? How much power? TB? TB 3 or 4? In some ways, one can argue that USB C is worse because of the added confusion.
There are some people on this site who’ve evidently never forgotten anything, for whom spending an extra $300 on a hub to make that life changing cable actually do what they need it to do is a negligible sum of pocket change, and for whom carrying around extra equipment is more convenient than just carrying their laptop. For the rest of the world it’s an inconvenience at best and even more frustrating when you consider it’s functionality that virtually every other laptop has, even a POS $250 Lenovo chrome book.
"Life changing" is a figure of speech. If you move between multiple desks on a near-daily basis, sometimes multiple times a day, having a single cable where previously you had say three or four in my case is most definitely an *improvement*.
Figuring any of those things out has not been difficult by any means — maybe you find it confusing, but I don't.
I'm talking about a dock you have at your desk(s) with everything set up once and stays where it is, I don't carry anything around with me. My power source, display and its USB-A power (for the ACD 30" DVI to mDP adapter), my audio interface, headphones/SD card/Ethernet/extra USB ports if I need them — are all in a single box under my monitor with cables tucked out of the way out of sight except for the single cable going to my MBP. Why you'd want to have to manually plug all that shit in every time when there's a simple tidy solution is beyond me. I set this all up once and generally never have to touch it, and it saves me a LOT of time and frustration messing with cables, so the "inconvenience" is really manufactured outrage here. Enjoy your POS Lenovo Chromebook and it's "functionality" lol.
What you're doing here is demonstrating quite nicely what thunderbolt is best at - allowing a connection of a plethora of stuff with a single cable - I agree it's a great solution. However, it's not so helpful if you frequently need to connect to *other people's stuff* like a projector or other display where the display-end of the HDMI cable is captive so you can't use your own cable, or someone gives you a usb memory stick to put a file on to, or a memory card to read some picture off. In these cases, having the port directly on the MBP is unquestionably more convenient, cheaper, tidier, more portable, and immune to problems with user's memory (forgetting to bring the crucial dongle).
Hence, clearly the optimum solution is to have thunderbolt ports AND the other ports. I don't recall ANYONE ever complaining that 2 thunderbolt 2 ports weren't enough on the older-generation Pros. I think the ideal would be four thunderbolt ports, one USB-A, one (full size) HDMI, a MagSafe power connector (but device can also be charged via any of the thunderbolt ports), and an SD card slot. This would annoy considerably fewer people. From the rumours, it seems that this is quite likely what we're going to get, probably minus the USB-A port.
commentzilla said: If you cannot remember to bring your USB-C hub on the go, you'll probably forget your power supply, wallet and keys too.
Exactly. They have little USB-C to HDMI keychains, and if it were my job to give presentations regularly I'd just have one of those on me at all times. Anyone complaining about forgetting stuff that's required for their job, well not sure that's Apple's problem.
I'll take the HDMI port return if it doesn't reduce the number of other TB3 ports, I'll never ever use it but it won't offend me by being there.
While the sensationalist internet punditry likes to present a hell on earth that looks like this
Real professionals will find an elegant solution like this for home/office use, where with just one cable you get power and all the legacy ports your heart desires
Or if you don't want to pay Thunderbolt prices, maybe something like this will do the trick.
It even has a VGA port.
But in the end, the 1st image above generates clicks while the latter two are just boring SOLUTIONS.
Boring solutions that can end up costing a fair chunk on top of your MacBook price, take up a load of space in your bag, and because of the port layout end up making a cable mess.
I say that as a CalDigit TB3 Hub user, who also has an Anker 5 port dongle for away from home work. They're both great bits of kit, but if I could get the ports on a MacBook I'd definitely prefer it that way.
A fair chunk? The TB3 dock $299 the USBC hub $99. The combinations are too numerous to mention here and the prices vary anywhere from $49 to $349. You only buy what you need.
As for the cable mess you speak of, connecting 5 peripherals total, sticking out from the sides of your laptop does not create one?
I know how much my hubs cost thanks. Point is, if the ports had been on my MacBook I wouldn't have needed to buy them, and probably wouldn't have, saving myself a significant amount of money.
Cables that all stick out from the side of your laptop are easy to manage, can even be cable tied together possibly. Take a look at the UtechSmart hub that you posted a picture of. If it's fully loaded then cables will be splayed out in all directions, making a mess.
Look, I totally get the need for different ports. I use many of them myself.
But while you may consider HDMI an esssential port, someone else may need USBA and someone further down the road, Ethernet. And let’s not forget the SD card slot.
You see where this is going?
I express my personal preferences. It isn't my job to take other people's preferences into account.
Except you generally express your personal preferences in a way that seem to insist it’s what Apple should do and they’re crazy for not doing it that way and others are crazy for wanting something different. Even this “it isn’t my job…” statement.
commentzilla said: If you cannot remember to bring your USB-C hub on the go, you'll probably forget your power supply, wallet and keys too.
Exactly. They have little USB-C to HDMI keychains, and if it were my job to give presentations regularly I'd just have one of those on me at all times. Anyone complaining about forgetting stuff that's required for their job, well not sure that's Apple's problem.
I'll take the HDMI port return if it doesn't reduce the number of other TB3 ports, I'll never ever use it but it won't offend me by being there.
While the sensationalist internet punditry likes to present a hell on earth that looks like this
Real professionals will find an elegant solution like this for home/office use, where with just one cable you get power and all the legacy ports your heart desires
Or if you don't want to pay Thunderbolt prices, maybe something like this will do the trick.
It even has a VGA port.
But in the end, the 1st image above generates clicks while the latter two are just boring SOLUTIONS.
Boring solutions that can end up costing a fair chunk on top of your MacBook price, take up a load of space in your bag, and because of the port layout end up making a cable mess.
I say that as a CalDigit TB3 Hub user, who also has an Anker 5 port dongle for away from home work. They're both great bits of kit, but if I could get the ports on a MacBook I'd definitely prefer it that way.
A fair chunk? The TB3 dock $299 the USBC hub $99. The combinations are too numerous to mention here and the prices vary anywhere from $49 to $349. You only buy what you need.
As for the cable mess you speak of, connecting 5 peripherals total, sticking out from the sides of your laptop does not create one?
I know how much my hubs cost thanks. Point is, if the ports had been on my MacBook I wouldn't have needed to buy them, and probably wouldn't have, saving myself a significant amount of money.
Cables that all stick out from the side of your laptop are easy to manage, can even be cable tied together possibly. Take a look at the UtechSmart hub that you posted a picture of. If it's fully loaded then cables will be splayed out in all directions, making a mess.
The ability to have a single cable to your laptop that provides power and breaks out several cables you'd otherwise be plugging and unplugging every time you switch locations is a life changing thing for the positive. Not sure why you'd fight that.
First, if a cable is ‘life changing,’ you need a better life, but to the point, what USB C does is trade the convenience of one port for the inconvenience of using adapters for everything.
You also fail to note that USB C is not all roses. There is one port, but the function of that port is undefined so you never know what features that port has. Beyond that, you don’t know what capabilities any given USB C cable has. USB 3? Power delivery? How much power? TB? TB 3 or 4? In some ways, one can argue that USB C is worse because of the added confusion.
There are some people on this site who’ve evidently never forgotten anything, for whom spending an extra $300 on a hub to make that life changing cable actually do what they need it to do is a negligible sum of pocket change, and for whom carrying around extra equipment is more convenient than just carrying their laptop. For the rest of the world it’s an inconvenience at best and even more frustrating when you consider it’s functionality that virtually every other laptop has, even a POS $250 Lenovo chrome book.
So if I understand you correctly, your ideal high end MBP would have what? 2 or 4 TB4 ports, 1 or 2 USBA ports, one HDMI port, one SD Card slot and one ethernet port. So in total 6-9 ports.
I suggest then you stop looking at Apple laptops because I doubt they’ll ever make everyone happy.
commentzilla said: If you cannot remember to bring your USB-C hub on the go, you'll probably forget your power supply, wallet and keys too.
Exactly. They have little USB-C to HDMI keychains, and if it were my job to give presentations regularly I'd just have one of those on me at all times. Anyone complaining about forgetting stuff that's required for their job, well not sure that's Apple's problem.
I'll take the HDMI port return if it doesn't reduce the number of other TB3 ports, I'll never ever use it but it won't offend me by being there.
While the sensationalist internet punditry likes to present a hell on earth that looks like this
Real professionals will find an elegant solution like this for home/office use, where with just one cable you get power and all the legacy ports your heart desires
Or if you don't want to pay Thunderbolt prices, maybe something like this will do the trick.
It even has a VGA port.
But in the end, the 1st image above generates clicks while the latter two are just boring SOLUTIONS.
Boring solutions that can end up costing a fair chunk on top of your MacBook price, take up a load of space in your bag, and because of the port layout end up making a cable mess.
I say that as a CalDigit TB3 Hub user, who also has an Anker 5 port dongle for away from home work. They're both great bits of kit, but if I could get the ports on a MacBook I'd definitely prefer it that way.
A fair chunk? The TB3 dock $299 the USBC hub $99. The combinations are too numerous to mention here and the prices vary anywhere from $49 to $349. You only buy what you need.
As for the cable mess you speak of, connecting 5 peripherals total, sticking out from the sides of your laptop does not create one?
I know how much my hubs cost thanks. Point is, if the ports had been on my MacBook I wouldn't have needed to buy them, and probably wouldn't have, saving myself a significant amount of money.
Cables that all stick out from the side of your laptop are easy to manage, can even be cable tied together possibly. Take a look at the UtechSmart hub that you posted a picture of. If it's fully loaded then cables will be splayed out in all directions, making a mess.
The ability to have a single cable to your laptop that provides power and breaks out several cables you'd otherwise be plugging and unplugging every time you switch locations is a life changing thing for the positive. Not sure why you'd fight that.
First, if a cable is ‘life changing,’ you need a better life, but to the point, what USB C does is trade the convenience of one port for the inconvenience of using adapters for everything.
You also fail to note that USB C is not all roses. There is one port, but the function of that port is undefined so you never know what features that port has. Beyond that, you don’t know what capabilities any given USB C cable has. USB 3? Power delivery? How much power? TB? TB 3 or 4? In some ways, one can argue that USB C is worse because of the added confusion.
There are some people on this site who’ve evidently never forgotten anything, for whom spending an extra $300 on a hub to make that life changing cable actually do what they need it to do is a negligible sum of pocket change, and for whom carrying around extra equipment is more convenient than just carrying their laptop. For the rest of the world it’s an inconvenience at best and even more frustrating when you consider it’s functionality that virtually every other laptop has, even a POS $250 Lenovo chrome book.
"Life changing" is a figure of speech. If you move between multiple desks on a near-daily basis, sometimes multiple times a day, having a single cable where previously you had say three or four in my case is most definitely an *improvement*.
Figuring any of those things out has not been difficult by any means — maybe you find it confusing, but I don't.
I'm talking about a dock you have at your desk(s) with everything set up once and stays where it is, I don't carry anything around with me. My power source, display and its USB-A power (for the ACD 30" DVI to mDP adapter), my audio interface, headphones/SD card/Ethernet/extra USB ports if I need them — are all in a single box under my monitor with cables tucked out of the way out of sight except for the single cable going to my MBP. Why you'd want to have to manually plug all that shit in every time when there's a simple tidy solution is beyond me. I set this all up once and generally never have to touch it, and it saves me a LOT of time and frustration messing with cables, so the "inconvenience" is really manufactured outrage here. Enjoy your POS Lenovo Chromebook and it's "functionality" lol.
What you're doing here is demonstrating quite nicely what thunderbolt is best at - allowing a connection of a plethora of stuff with a single cable - I agree it's a great solution. However, it's not so helpful if you frequently need to connect to *other people's stuff* like a projector or other display where the display-end of the HDMI cable is captive so you can't use your own cable, or someone gives you a usb memory stick to put a file on to, or a memory card to read some picture off. In these cases, having the port directly on the MBP is unquestionably more convenient, cheaper, tidier, more portable, and immune to problems with user's memory (forgetting to bring the crucial dongle).
Hence, clearly the optimum solution is to have thunderbolt ports AND the other ports. I don't recall ANYONE ever complaining that 2 thunderbolt 2 ports weren't enough on the older-generation Pros. I think the ideal would be four thunderbolt ports, one USB-A, one (full size) HDMI, a MagSafe power connector (but device can also be charged via any of the thunderbolt ports), and an SD card slot. This would annoy considerably fewer people. From the rumours, it seems that this is quite likely what we're going to get, probably minus the USB-A port.
A few months late to this conversation (I missed this and a few other threads at the time) but in case anyone is still watching this thread… Between the three of you, and few others…
You suggest that an extra $349 for all the extra ports is an added expense. However there are $49 and $99 options.
You suggest that having to carry around another device means more weight etc to carry around however if you put all the ports everyone might want into the MBP then you’re carrying around the ports YOU want and a bunch of ports you don’t want (but someone else wants), which compromises something. Makes it bigger and heavier or replaces battery life or something else.
And you’re paying for all those ports you don’t want (but someone else does) when you shouldn’t have to.
As someone pointed out there are inexpensive keyring sized options that contain one or two ports that can cover just your needs without inflicting your needs on those who have different needs.
Alternatively there are options like the many at https://www.hypershop.com/ that cover every price point and need imaginable and if you pick the one that has only the ports you want then it’s no more weight than if all the ports everyone could possibly want were included in the Mac.
Then there’s those of us who have switched all our external devices to USB-C (and don’t do presentations with other people’s projectors etc.) and have no need for anything other than USB-C and so don’t need socks at all. Of course that’s the ideal scenario for TB3-only Macs, but acknowledged that’s not everyone. Or the scenario described by @fastasleep ; where one cable connects everything at once and the dock and cable mess is tidily away.
The point of the thunderbolt ports is the flexibility and choice it provides the users without adding stuff that in every case someone won’t want (extra cost and extra size and weight). I agree the cable confusion with USB-C (different cables doing different things with same connector) is far from ideal but there are other solutions to that than giving up on USB-C and going back to all the other single use ports.
By the way, I complained about having only two thunderbolt ports in the older Macs and a bunch of ports I didn’t want. In fact in 2014 I wrote to Tim Cook and specifically suggested something like what wound up being the 2016 MBP. I doubt it was purely my request that brought about those machines, so either a bunch of other people did that as well or it was already on the cards anyway and my email perhaps just confirmed that at least someone wants it that way.
With only four (or if I had my way it would be 6 or 8) thunderbolt ports and nothing else in the laptop makes the Mac as versatile as possible with nothing in it that people don’t want.
Thunderbolt ports are the pinnacle of providing the most versatility to everyone. By all means express your preferences, but Apple can’t accommodate them without disappointing a lot more other people. And as described above with the myriad of dock/hub options, your needs can still be accommodated by those small to tiny portable hubs with, frankly, a lot less trouble than you’re espousing.
Each of you have arguments that are fair enough for what YOU want, but the approach Apple would have to take to accommodate what YOU want compromises what many others want, and vice versa. There exists no combination of ports that will satisfy everyone without including a bunch of extra ports that others don’t want.
My challenge to each of you:
Let’s go beyond expressing personal opinions, and look past just your own wants. Considering your wants and everyone else’s, what should Apple actually do? What is an actual solution to this issue that will give everyone what they want without compromise, or if not that then give the vast majority what’s most useful with the least compromise to everyone else. Oared we just ranting about our own personal preferences (fine if that’s what it is and we’re honest about it) Or is a sensible conversation about real solutions possible?
commentzilla said: If you cannot remember to bring your USB-C hub on the go, you'll probably forget your power supply, wallet and keys too.
Exactly. They have little USB-C to HDMI keychains, and if it were my job to give presentations regularly I'd just have one of those on me at all times. Anyone complaining about forgetting stuff that's required for their job, well not sure that's Apple's problem.
I'll take the HDMI port return if it doesn't reduce the number of other TB3 ports, I'll never ever use it but it won't offend me by being there.
While the sensationalist internet punditry likes to present a hell on earth that looks like this
Real professionals will find an elegant solution like this for home/office use, where with just one cable you get power and all the legacy ports your heart desires
Or if you don't want to pay Thunderbolt prices, maybe something like this will do the trick.
It even has a VGA port.
But in the end, the 1st image above generates clicks while the latter two are just boring SOLUTIONS.
Boring solutions that can end up costing a fair chunk on top of your MacBook price, take up a load of space in your bag, and because of the port layout end up making a cable mess.
I say that as a CalDigit TB3 Hub user, who also has an Anker 5 port dongle for away from home work. They're both great bits of kit, but if I could get the ports on a MacBook I'd definitely prefer it that way.
A fair chunk? The TB3 dock $299 the USBC hub $99. The combinations are too numerous to mention here and the prices vary anywhere from $49 to $349. You only buy what you need.
As for the cable mess you speak of, connecting 5 peripherals total, sticking out from the sides of your laptop does not create one?
I know how much my hubs cost thanks. Point is, if the ports had been on my MacBook I wouldn't have needed to buy them, and probably wouldn't have, saving myself a significant amount of money.
Cables that all stick out from the side of your laptop are easy to manage, can even be cable tied together possibly. Take a look at the UtechSmart hub that you posted a picture of. If it's fully loaded then cables will be splayed out in all directions, making a mess.
Look, I totally get the need for different ports. I use many of them myself.
But while you may consider HDMI an esssential port, someone else may need USBA and someone further down the road, Ethernet. And let’s not forget the SD card slot.
You see where this is going?
I express my personal preferences. It isn't my job to take other people's preferences into account.
Except you generally express your personal preferences in a way that seem to insist it’s what Apple should do and they’re crazy for not doing it that way and others are crazy for wanting something different. Even this “it isn’t my job…” statement.
I have never said or implied that Apple are crazy for not including more ports, and your inferences are not my responsibility.
commentzilla said: If you cannot remember to bring your USB-C hub on the go, you'll probably forget your power supply, wallet and keys too.
Exactly. They have little USB-C to HDMI keychains, and if it were my job to give presentations regularly I'd just have one of those on me at all times. Anyone complaining about forgetting stuff that's required for their job, well not sure that's Apple's problem.
I'll take the HDMI port return if it doesn't reduce the number of other TB3 ports, I'll never ever use it but it won't offend me by being there.
While the sensationalist internet punditry likes to present a hell on earth that looks like this
Real professionals will find an elegant solution like this for home/office use, where with just one cable you get power and all the legacy ports your heart desires
Or if you don't want to pay Thunderbolt prices, maybe something like this will do the trick.
It even has a VGA port.
But in the end, the 1st image above generates clicks while the latter two are just boring SOLUTIONS.
Boring solutions that can end up costing a fair chunk on top of your MacBook price, take up a load of space in your bag, and because of the port layout end up making a cable mess.
I say that as a CalDigit TB3 Hub user, who also has an Anker 5 port dongle for away from home work. They're both great bits of kit, but if I could get the ports on a MacBook I'd definitely prefer it that way.
A fair chunk? The TB3 dock $299 the USBC hub $99. The combinations are too numerous to mention here and the prices vary anywhere from $49 to $349. You only buy what you need.
As for the cable mess you speak of, connecting 5 peripherals total, sticking out from the sides of your laptop does not create one?
I know how much my hubs cost thanks. Point is, if the ports had been on my MacBook I wouldn't have needed to buy them, and probably wouldn't have, saving myself a significant amount of money.
Cables that all stick out from the side of your laptop are easy to manage, can even be cable tied together possibly. Take a look at the UtechSmart hub that you posted a picture of. If it's fully loaded then cables will be splayed out in all directions, making a mess.
Look, I totally get the need for different ports. I use many of them myself.
But while you may consider HDMI an esssential port, someone else may need USBA and someone further down the road, Ethernet. And let’s not forget the SD card slot.
You see where this is going?
I express my personal preferences. It isn't my job to take other people's preferences into account.
Except you generally express your personal preferences in a way that seem to insist it’s what Apple should do and they’re crazy for not doing it that way and others are crazy for wanting something different. Even this “it isn’t my job…” statement.
I have never said or implied that Apple are crazy for not including more ports, and your inferences are not my responsibility.
I used the word “seem” very carefully.
And sure, my inferences are no more your responsibility than other people’s preferences are. Not asking for them to be, (although I’d potentially argue that “responsibility” isn’t really what we’re going for in a forum discussion, but perhaps jot today).
I haven’t done a full analysis of all your comments but I guess you’re right, nothing I can find in a brief review just now seems to show you saying “Apple should do…”, only things like “I’d definitely prefer it if Apple did…” (I wonder if that’s very careful and deliberate, or just your nature. Just curious).
So fair enough. I guess if anything, in mine and others’ defense, we’re looking - preferably - to discuss solutions and ideas that might work for everyone or most. Sure, your preference is as valid as anyone’s but the enthusiasm with which you express yours, especially in the context of a thread in which others with similar arguments to yours (eg. Mr H and MplsM in this conversation) express them in a “Apple should…” way — it’s hard not to take it as “this is the way it should be”, unless we simply take it as rather self absorbed. Again in my/our defense, your comments like this also often come in threads where others are in fact narrow-mindedly saying “Apple should…” and without careful analysis it’s difficult not seeing your comments as supporting that.
But before you take offense at those last statements (especially “self-absorbed — note I didn’t say you are, only that it can be hard not to take your comments that way) again you’re right. If I read your words exactly and take them exactly as they are, anything beyond that is inference (including any suggestion of self-absorbed) and so that’s on us — you’re right that that’s not your problem or responsibility. Forgive me/us if I/we fail to make that analysis every time we reply to you. (And i don’t mean that sarcastically, or anything like that. Im serious).
PS. I added a lot to my post you replied to (didn’t change or take away anything). Your take on the rest of it could be interesting.
Let’s go beyond expressing personal opinions, and look past just your own wants. Considering your wants and everyone else’s, what should Apple actually do? What is an actual solution to this issue that will give everyone what they want without compromise, or if not that then give the vast majority what’s most useful with the least compromise to everyone else. Oared we just ranting about our own personal preferences (fine if that’s what it is and we’re honest about it) Or is a sensible conversation about real solutions possible?
My suggestions are not considering only "what I want" and "what I need". I never use SD cards for example, but recognise there are enough people who do, to warrant a built-in slot in the MBP. You think I'm the only person in the world who needs to be able to connect to third-party projectors or move a file onto someone else's memory stick? I would suggest that rather than me having the problem of being self-absorbed, it is you. Four USB-C ports are fine for you, and you are seemingly incapable of imagining how irritating it is to have to use dongles etc. all the time, when the functionality could just be built-in to the laptop.
I think your arguments with regards to weight, cost, and space compromises for additional ports are all spurious. When you put the ports in an external hub, there is an enormous weight and space overhead for the enclosure etc. that just isn't applicable when the ports are built-in. Further, have you seen how much Apple have been able to shrink the motherboards for Apple Silicon-based Macs relative to the Intel versions? This would easily compensate for the very minimal additional space that the ports would take up. As for cost - Apple's margins are absolutely enormous already, and have widened even further with the introduction of Apple Silicon. They can easily add these ports without increasing the cost of the laptop.
My proposal - four thunderbolt USB-C ports, one USB-A port, one SD slot, one full-size HDMI, and one MagSafe charging port would:
Not make the laptop any bigger Not make the laptop any heavier Not make the laptop any more expensive (for the end user - it might reduce Apple's margin by a fraction of a %) Have a negligible (possibly immeasurable) impact on battery life Still give you the four ports you want
So, my solution has a significantly lower impact on the utility and convenience of the MBP for you, than visa-versa, hence it is a better solution.
An alternative that I rather like is what the Framework laptop is doing, where the I/O is done via removable USB-C modules, including a simple USB-C passthrough (https://frame.work/laptop - scroll down to see the modules). So, you could have e.g. six slots, and then whatever mix of USB-C passthrough, HDMI, USB-A, etc., that you want. The issue here though is that this would have a bigger impact on Apple's margins, and does have a non-negligible impact on weight and space consumed. I'm not sure Apple could do this without making the laptop thicker and I'd rather they didn't do that.
Let’s go beyond expressing personal opinions, and look past just your own wants. Considering your wants and everyone else’s, what should Apple actually do? What is an actual solution to this issue that will give everyone what they want without compromise, or if not that then give the vast majority what’s most useful with the least compromise to everyone else. Oared we just ranting about our own personal preferences (fine if that’s what it is and we’re honest about it) Or is a sensible conversation about real solutions possible?
My suggestions are not considering only "what I want" and "what I need". I never use SD cards for example, but recognise there are enough people who do, to warrant a built-in slot in the MBP. You think I'm the only person in the world who needs to be able to connect to third-party projectors or move a file onto someone else's memory stick? I would suggest that rather than me having the problem of being self-absorbed, it is you. Four USB-C ports are fine for you, and you are seemingly incapable of imagining how irritating it is to have to use dongles etc. all the time, when the functionality could just be built-in to the laptop.
I think your arguments with regards to weight, cost, and space compromises for additional ports are all spurious. When you put the ports in an external hub, there is an enormous weight and space overhead for the enclosure etc. that just isn't applicable when the ports are built-in. Further, have you seen how much Apple have been able to shrink the motherboards for Apple Silicon-based Macs relative to the Intel versions? This would easily compensate for the very minimal additional space that the ports would take up. As for cost - Apple's margins are absolutely enormous already, and have widened even further with the introduction of Apple Silicon. They can easily add these ports without increasing the cost of the laptop.
My proposal - four thunderbolt USB-C ports, one USB-A port, one SD slot, one full-size HDMI, and one MagSafe charging port would:
Not make the laptop any bigger Not make the laptop any heavier Not make the laptop any more expensive (for the end user - it might reduce Apple's margin by a fraction of a %) Have a negligible (possibly immeasurable) impact on battery life Still give you the four ports you want
So, my solution has a significantly lower impact on the utility and convenience of the MBP for you, than visa-versa, hence it is a better solution.
An alternative that I rather like is what the Framework laptop is doing, where the I/O is done via removable USB-C modules, including a simple USB-C passthrough (https://frame.work/laptop - scroll down to see the modules). So, you could have e.g. six slots, and then whatever mix of USB-C passthrough, HDMI, USB-A, etc., that you want. The issue here though is that this would have a bigger impact on Apple's margins, and does have a non-negligible impact on weight and space consumed. I'm not sure Apple could do this without making the laptop thicker and I'd rather they didn't do that.
I appreciate that your response is well considered, it seems. Sadly, your easy dismissal of my arguments seems to have entirely missed some of the actual points. In doing so, you’ve indirectly helped make the point I’m trying to make.
Ok… so…
You’ve added four additional ports - each single purpose only, and at least one being relatively large (an HDMI port is near 3x the size of a USB-C port). Now the thing has 8 total ports and takes the space of the equivalent of 10 or more USB-C ports. All of that is not an insignificant increase in size/space, and most certainly adds some weight. You can’t just dismiss that.
The “Apple should just decrease their margin” argument doesn’t fly. Aside from the fact that they’ve been very clear about not compromising their margins (and why should they), especially when they’re not having any trouble selling these things, even if they can do that to offset adding extra ports — or extra anything — then they can do it without adding extra ports and thus make the device cheaper without the added cost of the extra ports. Either way you can’t just dismiss the cost of extra ports. Either way, all else being equal, extra ports adds cost.
The smaller motherboards is great. It means more of other things, that more ports compromises. Battery life for example. So again, either way, more ports compromises something, and you can’t just dismiss that.
If anyone argues it’s ok to add weight and size internally for more ports then I argue it’s ok - and better - to add other things to the insides that can’t be added externally (more battery, more cooling, more processing, and if nothing else, absolutely more GPU - something laptops sorely lack while being pretty close to desktops in everything else). Then let those small things that can be added externally, while still carried around (more ports, not an eGPU for example) be added externally, especially when it is virtually impossible to reach agreement on what those ports should be. And that’s the point of TB only.
None of that is to say your arguments for your proposed choice of extra ports is invalid, only that your path to getting there fails to adequately address the cost, plus my main point: ok, your configuration is a good selection but still falls short of meeting all needs. Eg. If given the choice, plenty of people would much rather have Ethernet built in and never go near an HDMI projector. You might argue that your selection is a reasonable selection and close enough to most people’s needs. To that I say 4xTB only, or even 6x, (and allowing back in whatever was compromised for the extra ports) is closer. You simply can’t just keep dismissing whatever has to be displaced to add the extra ports.
All that said…
You think I'm the only person in the world who needs to be able to connect to third-party projectors or move a file onto someone else's memory stick? I would suggest that rather than me having the problem of being self-absorbed, it is you. Four USB-C ports are fine for you, and you are seemingly incapable of imagining how irritating it is to have to use dongles etc. all the time, when the functionality could just be built-in to the laptop.
… this part is way off base. Firstly my “self absorbed” comment wasn’t directed at you at all and was a comment on a certain other individual’s approach not their points. Secondly, I never said anything else of what you’re saying I said there. Of course I can imagine the irritation for people who need these ports.
Where we disagree is what the solution is. Particularly, where these ports should be placed and why. And THIS is my point, not any of what you just said I’m saying.
I think those ports should be optional (and therefore external) because enough people don’t want to carry any of them around and enough of those who do use them only use them at desks etc. where a powered hub connects everything at once.
The remaining are the people who do genuinely: (a) need one or more of HDMI, SD, USB-A, Ethernet, DP, mag-safe, and probably other things, (b) away from the desk, (c) often enough (d) more often than any of us need other things like more GPU or battery life. That group of people is not zero, obviously, but it’s a pretty specific set of criteria for someone to meet to be in it, such that it’s a relatively small group, even more so if we consider Apple’s target market.
And there… again you can’t just keep dismissing the compromises for everyone outside that group, to meet the needs inside that group, again especially when even those in that group will disagree on what should be included vs not.
And all the more so when that group still has perfectly reasonable options that don’t have to involve “dongle hell”. Yes those options are a compromise for those people but they’re less of a compromise than the alternative compromises will be for the rest of us.
As much as I appreciate the thought you seem to have put into your reply, when you continue throwing phrases like “dongle hell” around (when there are plenty of small multi-purpose hubs that completely solve that problem) and continue insisting that adding these extra ports internally won’t increase the cost, or require displacing anything else of importance… suggests to me you’re clutching at straws a little. It appears you’re not really hearing the other side, and that you have little concept of the engineering required for these things. That part is disappointing.
All that said, I really was hoping someone would bring up the idea of something like the framework laptop solution. So thank you for that. I actually think (something like) that is the way to go, and I’d personally love Apple to pursue something like that (though hopefully they can do it better).
Agreed that the extra size and weight is not insignificant in framework’s solution. A better solution would be: say the 16”MBP comes with three TB ports on each side, but in a space that’s recessed, and large enough to slot in one of any number of combo modules. Instead of a module for each port, it’s a module for the combination of all three ports on one side — a module that contains three USB-C TB4 input plugs, and 2, 3, or more ports, any combination of whatever can fit that you want (including simply 3x TB4 pass through), output. A smaller (because much fewer output ports) version of something like this: https://www.hypershop.com/collections/usb-c-hubs-for-macbook/products/hyperdrive-net-6-in-2-hub-for-usb-c-macbook-pro-2016-2017-2018 that isn’t attached on the side, but rather slotted into a recess.
Actually, I’d be perfectly happy if the TB4 pass through option was nothing but three holes to pass the ridiculously long and high-leverage-for-damage TB3/4 cable plug through to the internal port.
That’s a solution that would require displacing less than ADDING more ports in addition to the TB complement, but for an infinitely flexible solution that would provide everyone exactly whatever combination suits them (even in different situations) plus solves the instability problem in my last paragraph. In my head that’s minimal compromise for maximum return for everyone.
Just one thought: perhaps in addition to (or even instead of) all arguing about this 😉 we could all write to [email protected] to ask for this.
Let’s go beyond expressing personal opinions, and look past just your own wants. Considering your wants and everyone else’s, what should Apple actually do? What is an actual solution to this issue that will give everyone what they want without compromise, or if not that then give the vast majority what’s most useful with the least compromise to everyone else. Oared we just ranting about our own personal preferences (fine if that’s what it is and we’re honest about it) Or is a sensible conversation about real solutions possible?
My suggestions are not considering only "what I want" and "what I need". I never use SD cards for example, but recognise there are enough people who do, to warrant a built-in slot in the MBP. You think I'm the only person in the world who needs to be able to connect to third-party projectors or move a file onto someone else's memory stick? I would suggest that rather than me having the problem of being self-absorbed, it is you. Four USB-C ports are fine for you, and you are seemingly incapable of imagining how irritating it is to have to use dongles etc. all the time, when the functionality could just be built-in to the laptop.
I think your arguments with regards to weight, cost, and space compromises for additional ports are all spurious. When you put the ports in an external hub, there is an enormous weight and space overhead for the enclosure etc. that just isn't applicable when the ports are built-in. Further, have you seen how much Apple have been able to shrink the motherboards for Apple Silicon-based Macs relative to the Intel versions? This would easily compensate for the very minimal additional space that the ports would take up. As for cost - Apple's margins are absolutely enormous already, and have widened even further with the introduction of Apple Silicon. They can easily add these ports without increasing the cost of the laptop.
My proposal - four thunderbolt USB-C ports, one USB-A port, one SD slot, one full-size HDMI, and one MagSafe charging port would:
Not make the laptop any bigger Not make the laptop any heavier Not make the laptop any more expensive (for the end user - it might reduce Apple's margin by a fraction of a %) Have a negligible (possibly immeasurable) impact on battery life Still give you the four ports you want
So, my solution has a significantly lower impact on the utility and convenience of the MBP for you, than visa-versa, hence it is a better solution.
An alternative that I rather like is what the Framework laptop is doing, where the I/O is done via removable USB-C modules, including a simple USB-C passthrough (https://frame.work/laptop - scroll down to see the modules). So, you could have e.g. six slots, and then whatever mix of USB-C passthrough, HDMI, USB-A, etc., that you want. The issue here though is that this would have a bigger impact on Apple's margins, and does have a non-negligible impact on weight and space consumed. I'm not sure Apple could do this without making the laptop thicker and I'd rather they didn't do that.
I appreciate that your response is well considered, it seems. Sadly, your easy dismissal of my arguments seems to have entirely missed some of the actual points. In doing so, you’ve indirectly helped make the point I’m trying to make.
Ok… so…
You’ve added four additional ports - each single purpose only, and at least one being relatively large (an HDMI port is near 3x the size of a USB-C port). Now the thing has 8 total ports and takes the space of the equivalent of 10 or more USB-C ports. All of that is not an insignificant increase in size/space, and most certainly adds some weight. You can’t just dismiss that.
The “Apple should just decrease their margin” argument doesn’t fly. Aside from the fact that they’ve been very clear about not compromising their margins (and why should they), especially when they’re not having any trouble selling these things, even if they can do that to offset adding extra ports — or extra anything — then they can do it without adding extra ports and thus make the device cheaper without the added cost of the extra ports. Either way you can’t just dismiss the cost of extra ports. Either way, all else being equal, extra ports adds cost.
The smaller motherboards is great. It means more of other things, that more ports compromises. Battery life for example. So again, either way, more ports compromises something, and you can’t just dismiss that.
If anyone argues it’s ok to add weight and size internally for more ports then I argue it’s ok - and better - to add other things to the insides that can’t be added externally (more battery, more cooling, more processing, and if nothing else, absolutely more GPU - something laptops sorely lack while being pretty close to desktops in everything else). Then let those small things that can be added externally, while still carried around (more ports, not an eGPU for example) be added externally, especially when it is virtually impossible to reach agreement on what those ports should be. And that’s the point of TB only.
None of that is to say your arguments for your proposed choice of extra ports is invalid, only that your path to getting there fails to adequately address the cost, plus my main point: ok, your configuration is a good selection but still falls short of meeting all needs. Eg. If given the choice, plenty of people would much rather have Ethernet built in and never go near an HDMI projector. You might argue that your selection is a reasonable selection and close enough to most people’s needs. To that I say 4xTB only, or even 6x, (and allowing back in whatever was compromised for the extra ports) is closer. You simply can’t just keep dismissing whatever has to be displaced to add the extra ports.
All that said…
You think I'm the only person in the world who needs to be able to connect to third-party projectors or move a file onto someone else's memory stick? I would suggest that rather than me having the problem of being self-absorbed, it is you. Four USB-C ports are fine for you, and you are seemingly incapable of imagining how irritating it is to have to use dongles etc. all the time, when the functionality could just be built-in to the laptop.
… this part is way off base. Firstly my “self absorbed” comment wasn’t directed at you at all and was a comment on a certain other individual’s approach not their points. Secondly, I never said anything else of what you’re saying I said there. Of course I can imagine the irritation for people who need these ports.
Where we disagree is what the solution is. Particularly, where these ports should be placed and why. And THIS is my point, not any of what you just said I’m saying.
I think those ports should be optional (and therefore external) because enough people don’t want to carry any of them around and enough of those who do use them only use them at desks etc. where a powered hub connects everything at once.
The remaining are the people who do genuinely: (a) need one or more of HDMI, SD, USB-A, Ethernet, DP, mag-safe, and probably other things, (b) away from the desk, (c) often enough (d) more often than any of us need other things like more GPU or battery life. That group of people is not zero, obviously, but it’s a pretty specific set of criteria for someone to meet to be in it, such that it’s a relatively small group, even more so if we consider Apple’s target market.
And there… again you can’t just keep dismissing the compromises for everyone outside that group, to meet the needs inside that group, again especially when even those in that group will disagree on what should be included vs not.
And all the more so when that group still has perfectly reasonable options that don’t have to involve “dongle hell”. Yes those options are a compromise for those people but they’re less of a compromise than the alternative compromises will be for the rest of us.
As much as I appreciate the thought you seem to have put into your reply, when you continue throwing phrases like “dongle hell” around (when there are plenty of small multi-purpose hubs that completely solve that problem) and continue insisting that adding these extra ports internally won’t increase the cost, or require displacing anything else of importance… suggests to me you’re clutching at straws a little. It appears you’re not really hearing the other side, and that you have little concept of the engineering required for these things. That part is disappointing.
All that said, I really was hoping someone would bring up the idea of something like the framework laptop solution. So thank you for that. I actually think (something like) that is the way to go, and I’d personally love Apple to pursue something like that (though hopefully they can do it better).
Agreed that the extra size and weight is not insignificant in framework’s solution. A better solution would be: say the 16”MBP comes with three TB ports on each side, but in a space that’s recessed, and large enough to slot in one of any number of combo modules. Instead of a module for each port, it’s a module for the combination of all three ports on one side — a module that contains three USB-C TB4 input plugs, and 2, 3, or more ports, any combination of whatever can fit that you want (including simply 3x TB4 pass through), output. A smaller (because much fewer output ports) version of something like this: https://www.hypershop.com/collections/usb-c-hubs-for-macbook/products/hyperdrive-net-6-in-2-hub-for-usb-c-macbook-pro-2016-2017-2018 that isn’t attached on the side, but rather slotted into a recess.
Actually, I’d be perfectly happy if the TB4 pass through option was nothing but three holes to pass the ridiculously long and high-leverage-for-damage TB3/4 cable plug through to the internal port.
That’s a solution that would require displacing less than ADDING more ports in addition to the TB complement, but for an infinitely flexible solution that would provide everyone exactly whatever combination suits them (even in different situations) plus solves the instability problem in my last paragraph. In my head that’s minimal compromise for maximum return for everyone.
Just one thought: perhaps in addition to (or even instead of) all arguing about this 😉 we could all write to [email protected] to ask for this.
Thanks for taking the time to construct this well-argued post. Clearly the main area of disagreement between us is the degree of impact that adding one USB-A, one full-size HDMI, one SD card slot, and one MagSafe charging port would have on the laptop. I am well aware of the engineering issues (I have a PhD in electronic engineering) and have studied enough laptop internals to come to my conclusion that Apple could add these with extremely minimal compromise vis-as-vis battery life and GPU power. Unfortunately, this will remain an issue that we simply cannot resolve without Apple engineering the damn thing and comparing one versus the other - I think we just have to agree to disagree.
Anyway, I'm delighted that you are a fan of the modular idea. Given Apple's resources you would have thought they'd be able to do it right. Apparently there are ex-Apple engineers working at Framework. I think the best we can hope for is for Framework to be super successful and for other manufacturers to start doing the same thing, but sadly I doubt it's going to happen as I think there aren't enough consumers that actually care enough about the concept.
I apologize for not replying sooner. I’ve been a little tied up.
So ok, If you have a PhD in electrical engineering I can hardly argue with that. Fair enough.
I have a bunch of other thoughts I’d like to add here but certain personal circumstances are pulling me away from some of my interests, including here.
So, sadly I’ll have to leave it here, but yes, thanks for an interesting discussion.
Comments
2 or 4 TB4 ports, 1 or 2 USBA ports, one HDMI port, one SD Card slot and one ethernet port. So in total 6-9 ports.
I suggest then you stop looking at Apple laptops because I doubt they’ll ever make everyone happy.
Figuring any of those things out has not been difficult by any means — maybe you find it confusing, but I don't.
I'm talking about a dock you have at your desk(s) with everything set up once and stays where it is, I don't carry anything around with me. My power source, display and its USB-A power (for the ACD 30" DVI to mDP adapter), my audio interface, headphones/SD card/Ethernet/extra USB ports if I need them — are all in a single box under my monitor with cables tucked out of the way out of sight except for the single cable going to my MBP. Why you'd want to have to manually plug all that shit in every time when there's a simple tidy solution is beyond me. I set this all up once and generally never have to touch it, and it saves me a LOT of time and frustration messing with cables, so the "inconvenience" is really manufactured outrage here. Enjoy your POS Lenovo Chromebook and it's "functionality" lol.
Hence, clearly the optimum solution is to have thunderbolt ports AND the other ports. I don't recall ANYONE ever complaining that 2 thunderbolt 2 ports weren't enough on the older-generation Pros. I think the ideal would be four thunderbolt ports, one USB-A, one (full size) HDMI, a MagSafe power connector (but device can also be charged via any of the thunderbolt ports), and an SD card slot. This would annoy considerably fewer people. From the rumours, it seems that this is quite likely what we're going to get, probably minus the USB-A port.
You suggest that an extra $349 for all the extra ports is an added expense. However there are $49 and $99 options.
But before you take offense at those last statements (especially “self-absorbed — note I didn’t say you are, only that it can be hard not to take your comments that way) again you’re right. If I read your words exactly and take them exactly as they are, anything beyond that is inference (including any suggestion of self-absorbed) and so that’s on us — you’re right that that’s not your problem or responsibility. Forgive me/us if I/we fail to make that analysis every time we reply to you. (And i don’t mean that sarcastically, or anything like that. Im serious).
PS. I added a lot to my post you replied to (didn’t change or take away anything). Your take on the rest of it could be interesting.
I think your arguments with regards to weight, cost, and space compromises for additional ports are all spurious. When you put the ports in an external hub, there is an enormous weight and space overhead for the enclosure etc. that just isn't applicable when the ports are built-in. Further, have you seen how much Apple have been able to shrink the motherboards for Apple Silicon-based Macs relative to the Intel versions? This would easily compensate for the very minimal additional space that the ports would take up. As for cost - Apple's margins are absolutely enormous already, and have widened even further with the introduction of Apple Silicon. They can easily add these ports without increasing the cost of the laptop.
My proposal - four thunderbolt USB-C ports, one USB-A port, one SD slot, one full-size HDMI, and one MagSafe charging port would:
Not make the laptop any bigger
Not make the laptop any heavier
Not make the laptop any more expensive (for the end user - it might reduce Apple's margin by a fraction of a %)
Have a negligible (possibly immeasurable) impact on battery life
Still give you the four ports you want
So, my solution has a significantly lower impact on the utility and convenience of the MBP for you, than visa-versa, hence it is a better solution.
An alternative that I rather like is what the Framework laptop is doing, where the I/O is done via removable USB-C modules, including a simple USB-C passthrough (https://frame.work/laptop - scroll down to see the modules). So, you could have e.g. six slots, and then whatever mix of USB-C passthrough, HDMI, USB-A, etc., that you want. The issue here though is that this would have a bigger impact on Apple's margins, and does have a non-negligible impact on weight and space consumed. I'm not sure Apple could do this without making the laptop thicker and I'd rather they didn't do that.
The remaining are the people who do genuinely:
(a) need one or more of HDMI, SD, USB-A, Ethernet, DP, mag-safe, and probably other things,
(b) away from the desk,
(c) often enough
(d) more often than any of us need other things like more GPU or battery life.
That group of people is not zero, obviously, but it’s a pretty specific set of criteria for someone to meet to be in it, such that it’s a relatively small group, even more so if we consider Apple’s target market.
And there… again you can’t just keep dismissing the compromises for everyone outside that group, to meet the needs inside that group, again especially when even those in that group will disagree on what should be included vs not.
Actually, I’d be perfectly happy if the TB4 pass through option was nothing but three holes to pass the ridiculously long and high-leverage-for-damage TB3/4 cable plug through to the internal port.
Anyway, I'm delighted that you are a fan of the modular idea. Given Apple's resources you would have thought they'd be able to do it right. Apparently there are ex-Apple engineers working at Framework. I think the best we can hope for is for Framework to be super successful and for other manufacturers to start doing the same thing, but sadly I doubt it's going to happen as I think there aren't enough consumers that actually care enough about the concept.