EU says smarthome 'gatekeepers' like Apple may harm competition

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  • Reply 21 of 34
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,628member
    diz_geek said:
    Isn’t this what the Matter initiative is supposed to help with?  Building a standard for interoperability to reduce the need for gatekeepers?
    That was my first thought. They JUST released an open standard that anyone can use. Kinda eliminates the “gatekeeper” argument. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 34
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,279member
    lkrupp said:
    Harm competition? Harm WHAT competition? Europe has nothing to compete with Apple, Google, Amazon, and the rest. Never did, never will. Who is the European equivalent of Apple or Google that may be harmed? 
    Consumers get harmed by a lack of competition.  Europe has plenty of those.
    maxiking
  • Reply 23 of 34
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,016member
    The EU is a bigger market, with more consumers, better quality of life, longer life expectancy, less inequality, less child poverty, less gun violence, better education and more manufacturing.

    The EU is actually multiple markets where citizens have different interests and buying power. The bureaucrats in Brussels of course are trying to force into being a single market, with them in control of course. Which is why they are over the top with regulation, why their every response to every problem, real or perceived, is regulation, and why heavy regulation is the best way they see of accreting power to them. A foreign corporation in which their friends and relatives are not part of the executive structure is considered every bit a danger to their power base as a tribal leader the next village over back in the day, or few hundred years ago a foreign king or queen. So the euroweenies take steps to counter the perceived threat.

    There is also a significant cohort of useful idiots in the EU who are it seems genetically prone to tugging the forelock to their masters and only too eager to comply with their dictates. 
    The ones that have not emigrated it seems.
    edited June 9 watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 34
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,602member
    gatorguy said:
    Aren't the players cooperating to level the playing field? That's what Thread is about. Google, Apple, Zigbee, Amazon, Qualcomm, Eve, LG, and several dozen other companies all cooperating on a standard that allows devices from multiple manufacturers to work on any of the smart platforms

    But the big traditional lighting companies are all European and don't seem to be on board. They have their own standards they are making money licensing and a true open standard is a threat to that not just in the home market but in their main cashcow commercial buildings. Most of these systems rely on being obtuse to hold market power.

    I'm sure once they leverage better terms for their own manufactures concerns will be dropped. 
    entropyswatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 34
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,341member
    sully54 said:
    Three competing companies coming together to create a common and open platform that ensures interoperability is the opposite of gatekeeping. 
    Yes, but it's not French or German, so it has got to be stopped.
    entropysthtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 34
    maxiking said:

    I think government has a role as a referee in these situations and it is hard to deny that the power of a handful of companies on our daily lives is bigger than ever before in history.

    Read up on Standard Oil and AT&T before making such statements.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 34
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 954member
    maxiking said:
    maestro64 said:
    Not like the EU is filled with the best and brightest. This coming from a group of people who never made a thing in this world other than what ends up on the toilet.

    The EU is a bigger market, with more consumers, better quality of life, longer life expectancy, less inequality, less child poverty, less gun violence, better education and more manufacturing.

    The EU itself is the most consumer friendly regulator in the world, be it data protection, food quality or consumer rights. It is also the biggest financer of science and research in the world, which explains why Google, Apple and others have big research operations for AI, chip design and algorithms in Europe. 

    Fun fact: if you take the top 2% of incomes and wealth out of the equation, the US is on the same level of income for the bottom 98% as the EU.

    The US have more billionaires, while Europeans are happier, healthier and better educated.
    While some of your assertions are easily contestable, let's just assume what you state is valid so that we may ask one fundamental question.  If Europe is, as you imply, superior to the U.S. in most ways, then why has Europe consistently underperformed in technological development, venture capital investment, proliferation of start-ups, and ability to swiftly response and adapt to market changes?

    Margrethe Vestager, who is acting in a political role, is proposing nothing more than a temporary band-aid that will score political points, but will not correct the underlying structural problems inherent in E.U. labor and commerce law and regulation.  By the time what she proposes comes to fruition, the market will have changed and struggling European firms will be caught flat footed once more.  We have seen this movie many times before.

    Undeniably, Europe does have a well educated workforce.  It's just a shame that many must move abroad in order to achieve their dreams of changing the world.
  • Reply 28 of 34
    maxiking said:

    The US have more billionaires, while Europeans are happier, healthier and better educated.


    Europeans are happier, healthier and better educated despite the EU bureaucrats.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 34
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,023member
    Here's a good podcast to listen to if you're wondering about the EU's chief enforcer and how she views her job. 
    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/meet-big-techs-tormenter-in-chief/id1528594034?i=1000524929167
  • Reply 30 of 34
    escanescan Posts: 6member
    maxiking said:
    maestro64 said:
    Not like the EU is filled with the best and brightest. This coming from a group of people who never made a thing in this world other than what ends up on the toilet.


    The EU is a bigger market, with more consumers, better quality of life, longer life expectancy, less inequality, less child poverty, less gun violence, better education and more manufacturing.

    The EU itself is the most consumer friendly regulator in the world, be it data protection, food quality or consumer rights. It is also the biggest financer of science and research in the world, which explains why Google, Apple and others have big research operations for AI, chip design and algorithms in Europe. 

    Fun fact: if you take the top 2% of incomes and wealth out of the equation, the US is on the same level of income for the bottom 98% as the EU.

    The US have more billionaires, while Europeans are happier, healthier and better educated.


    I lol every time someone uses German or French stats to make a US vs EU comparison.

    You should either compare US vs. EU as a whole, or California, New York, Texas and Massachusetts vs. Germany, France, Italy, Spain. Do not conveniently forget about Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova, Poland, Greece, etc.. 

    Also, I will start trusting European commission when they do something about Spotify, which is clearly a monopoly that uses its market power to pay artists less than half of what its competitors pay. Instead, the EU is siding with the giant in the music streaming business to handicap the other company that gives users a choice. Would they feel the same if Apple was a European company and Spotify was American?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 34
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,411member
    maxiking said:
    maestro64 said:
    Not like the EU is filled with the best and brightest. This coming from a group of people who never made a thing in this world other than what ends up on the toilet.

    The EU is a bigger market, with more consumers, better quality of life, longer life expectancy, less inequality, less child poverty, less gun violence, better education and more manufacturing.

    The EU itself is the most consumer friendly regulator in the world, be it data protection, food quality or consumer rights. It is also the biggest financer of science and research in the world, which explains why Google, Apple and others have big research operations for AI, chip design and algorithms in Europe. 

    Fun fact: if you take the top 2% of incomes and wealth out of the equation, the US is on the same level of income for the bottom 98% as the EU.

    The US have more billionaires, while Europeans are happier, healthier and better educated.
    If you had cited web pages for each of your claims, I would have gone to those sites to read up and learn. But it sounds like some of your claims are bogus and I'm not responsible to back you up.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 34
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,830member
    It's clear that virtually nobody commenting has even bothered to read the preliminary report itself.

    It is literally packed full of potential areas where gatekeepers can and do limit competition. And based on feedback from over 200 industry players.

    Just an example:

    "First, in relation to interoperability, respondents have raised concerns in relation to two main issues. Firstly, integration processes are largely determined by the presence of few providers of leading proprietary voice assistants and operating systems relevant for the consumer IoT 
    sector. These companies are able to independently determine the requirements to achieve interoperability with their proprietary technology through unilaterally governed terms and conditions, technical requirements and certification processes. Secondly and in relation to this, by unilaterally governing the interoperability and integration processes, they may also be able to limit the functionalities of third-party smart devices and consumer IoT services, compared to their own, by imposing technical constraints, such as limited APIs."


    muthuk_vanalingamgatorguy
  • Reply 33 of 34
    laytechlaytech Posts: 234member
    Oh dear. Fear of what? What if I want to be protected by Apple's eco-system. What if I actually like being behind Apple's firewall. Let that be my choice. Forcing Apple to open up in my view can be dangerous. Its like the AppStore. For me, its essential because I know the app is approved. Of course apps slip through that shouldn't but its like buying a product from a reputable buyer. I have confidence and trust in that. 

    I get there needs to be controls on anti-competitive behaviour but you should not for the break up. Make it a choice.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 34
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,279member
    escan said:
    maxiking said:
    maestro64 said:
    Not like the EU is filled with the best and brightest. This coming from a group of people who never made a thing in this world other than what ends up on the toilet.


    The EU is a bigger market, with more consumers, better quality of life, longer life expectancy, less inequality, less child poverty, less gun violence, better education and more manufacturing.

    The EU itself is the most consumer friendly regulator in the world, be it data protection, food quality or consumer rights. It is also the biggest financer of science and research in the world, which explains why Google, Apple and others have big research operations for AI, chip design and algorithms in Europe. 

    Fun fact: if you take the top 2% of incomes and wealth out of the equation, the US is on the same level of income for the bottom 98% as the EU.

    The US have more billionaires, while Europeans are happier, healthier and better educated.


    I lol every time someone uses German or French stats to make a US vs EU comparison.

    You should either compare US vs. EU as a whole, or California, New York, Texas and Massachusetts vs. Germany, France, Italy, Spain. Do not conveniently forget about Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova, Poland, Greece, etc.. 

    Also, I will start trusting European commission when they do something about Spotify, which is clearly a monopoly that uses its market power to pay artists less than half of what its competitors pay. Instead, the EU is siding with the giant in the music streaming business to handicap the other company that gives users a choice. Would they feel the same if Apple was a European company and Spotify was American?
    According to what standard is Spotify a monopoly?
    muthuk_vanalingam
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