iPadOS 15 confirms Apple's M1-equipped iPad Pro is a V8 engine powering a Ford Pinto

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  • Reply 41 of 128
    hmlongcohmlongco Posts: 320member
    tmay said:

    Apple has stated, over and over again, that it wasn't going to make a hybrid. 

    Furthermore, nobody cares if you canceled your order for the iPad Pro, but you sure showed Apple who's boss, somehow!

    The iPad "Pro" either meets needs and expectations, or it doesn't. As I and many others have stated, the iPad Pro is hamstrung by many, many, many software-based drawbacks limitations that really need to be addressed before the machine can fully realize its full potential. Adding more and more processing power without doing so basically leads us to the photo in the article. A vastly overpowered vehicle, hamstrung by its other limitations.

    And they may have said that they have no interest in making a hybrid... but they've said many things over the years only to reverse their decision later on. Heck, our Macs even have arrow keys on the keyboard. Who would have thunk?

    As to cancelling the order, I know of several others who've done the same. (Or returned ones they had already received.) It's been said that people should vote with their dollars. We have. And perhaps, if enough people do the same, then Apple may figure out that they need to shift directions after all.
    edited June 11 williamlondonOfermuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 42 of 128
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,557member
    canukstorm said: There is literally only a handful of apps for iPad Pro that can truly be classified as Pro apps.  If Apple can't be bothered to make Pro apps available for the M1 iPad Pro why should third parties?
    FYI: the iPad software market doesn't support prices that are as high as the Mac software market. It's always been like that. That's the first thing to consider when you're wondering why certain high-priced applications aren't available. There is no 1:1 correlation between what iPad users are willing to spend and what Mac users are willing to spend. iPad users expect cheaper prices. That expectation can limit what is made available. I already used the Xbox analogy earlier in this thread. An M1 can blow through Xbox One games, but do you see MS rushing to release a bunch of Xbox One ports on iPadOS just because they would run well? Price. They won't get the price they want on iPadOS. 
    This article is not referring to the broader iPad market or the typical iPad user that's only interested in the entry level iPad or iPad Air.  We're talking about the M1 iPad Pro and the class of iPad user that knows they want that device.  The M1 iPad Pro starts at $799 and goes all the way up to $2300+ (MBP prices).  If they are willing to spend that kind of money on iPad, they have no issue spending the money on apps that will take advantage of the power of the device.  What a waste to have an iPad Pro that has MBP level performance and pricing and no apps to take advantage of it.  As beautiful as the hardware is, I'm not here to make excuses for Apple.  They dropped the ball by not having a pro software story surrounding the release of this device.
    nhugheswilliamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 128
    pscooter63pscooter63 Posts: 1,059member
    A pity that DewMe’s post isn’t getting more traction here.

    I have very specific and narrow use cases for my 12.9 IPP that a MBP or some Microsoft-inspired Franken-device will absolutely not satisfy.  Yes, I also own a 16” MBP too.

    Complainers looking for one device for all use cases would be better served fleeing to Windows.  No one wants to admit they just can’t afford to have the best in class of both form factors.  That’s not Apple’s problem, it’s theirs.  And they’re trying to shift the problem to someone else than themselves.
    edited June 11 tmaywilliamlondonWgkruegersagan_studentRayz2016thtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 128
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,179member
    dewme said:
    Didn’t AI recently publish an article about how the iPad Pro, even with its multi-gigabytes of system RAM, was still setting a HARD LIMIT on how much RAM an application can utilize? That pretty much tells you everything you need to know about why the current XCode will not run on the iPad Pro.

     iPadOS != macOS

    There are more underlying architectural differences between macOS and iPadOS than you may believe, despite the fact that they are rooted in a common code base at the kernel level. As long as Apple is intent on maintaining and enhancing Mac and iPad separately there will always be a gap between these two products. The “solution” to the Blown Pinto dilemma is to put macOS on the iPad Pro, the “MS Surface Model,” but Apple has not yet demonstrated a desire to do so.

    The problem with Surface Model is that it is a compromise. Another phrase for “compromise” is “both sides are losing something.” For Surface this means a shitty tablet user experience for tablet aficionados and a puny ass screen for desktop PC aficionados. With compromise everyone loses something. Apple is not yet willing to commit to pushing this sort of compromise on its customers. 
    The iPadOS is also compromised.  iPadOS is an excellent as a tablet, but as soon as you add keyboard + trackpad it's terrible.  That's the opposite from the Surface, which is not that good as a tablet (even though Apple had to copy some elements, like multitasking and side-by-side apps) but it's very good with keyboard + trackpad.  At the end, every device has some compromise.  Now we have to wait and see what they do with iPad.  Are they going to keep the current set of compromises we are seeing today, or they will move to a "Surface (toaster / fridge)" device/?  It think we'll have the answer in the next few years.  
    Ofermuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 45 of 128
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,557member
    MplsP said:
    vukasika said:
    Until there’s an improved iPadOS software, there really hasn’t been a reason to honestly purchase a new iPad since 2018. 
    To me the problem isn't really iPadOS but the lack of Apple first party Pro apps to take advantage of the M1 iPad Pro.  This is where Apple should take the lead being the platform owner and creator. When SJ introduced the first iPad in 2010, he demoed iWork. When he introduced the iPad 2 in 2011, he demoed Garageband and iMovie. Since then Apple hasn't demoed anymore first party apps. It would have been great if Apple introduced the M1 iPad Pro demoing FCP and / or LP reimagined for the iPad Pro.  There is literally only a handful of apps for iPad Pro that can truly be classified as Pro apps.  If Apple can't be bothered to make Pro apps available for the M1 iPad Pro why should third parties?

    This video sums up my sentiments


    It's a bit of a catch 22 - how much of the lack of application development is because of the lack of an OS that can run it?
    That's a moot argument.  When SJ demoed iWork running on iPad in 2010 or GarageBand & iMovie running on iPad 2 in 2011, did he and his team sit around wondering if the iPad lacked an OS that could run those apps?  Of course not.  they REIMAGINED those apps for the iPad and corresponding OS.  I don't want Apple to port macOS to iPad or do a straight port of FCP / LP to iPadOS.  I want them to reimagine those apps for iPadOS and M1 iPad Pro and lead the way, just as SJ showed in 2010 and 2011.  Instead, they just announced the device in April and said here you go.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 128
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,179member
    tmay said:
    hmlongco said:
    I was so sure that Apple was going to figure out some cool way of taking the iPad Pro with M1 in a "Microsoft Surface" direction when paired with the Apple Keyboard/Trackpad that I ordered a new iPad Pro with M1 on the first day it was available.

    They didn't.

    I just cancelled the order.

    Should Apple reconsider, so will I.
    FFS,

    Apple has stated, over and over again, that it wasn't going to make a hybrid.

    Furthermore, nobody cares if you canceled your order for the iPad Pro, but you sure showed Apple who's boss, somehow!

    Maybe the should consider making a hybrid device, specially when you consider that the Surface has a better experience when using the keyboard + trackpad.  I also find interesting how Apple was very negative about touchscreen notebooks, but a the end, is very similar to what they offer with the iPad Pro and the Magic Keyboard.  

    Steve Jobs: Touchscreen Laptops Don't Work (businessinsider.com)
    Ofer
  • Reply 47 of 128
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,557member
    dewme said:
    Didn’t AI recently publish an article about how the iPad Pro, even with its multi-gigabytes of system RAM, was still setting a HARD LIMIT on how much RAM an application can utilize? That pretty much tells you everything you need to know about why the current XCode will not run on the iPad Pro.

     iPadOS != macOS

    There are more underlying architectural differences between macOS and iPadOS than you may believe, despite the fact that they are rooted in a common code base at the kernel level. As long as Apple is intent on maintaining and enhancing Mac and iPad separately there will always be a gap between these two products. The “solution” to the Blown Pinto dilemma is to put macOS on the iPad Pro, the “MS Surface Model,” but Apple has not yet demonstrated a desire to do so.

    The problem with Surface Model is that it is a compromise. Another phrase for “compromise” is “both sides are losing something.” For Surface this means a shitty tablet user experience for tablet aficionados and a puny ass screen for desktop PC aficionados. With compromise everyone loses something. Apple is not yet willing to commit to pushing this sort of compromise on its customers. 

    As far as XCode is concerned, in a two OS model, Apple would either have to dumb down XCode or smarten up Swift Playgrounds. As a developer I always prefer to start with a clean slate and would go for the latter approach of incrementally adding more capability to the newer and less complex implementation. This approach does not have to deal with legacy cruft. Dumbing down XCode from the top is bound to cause a lot more problems because you have to constantly ask the question “Who am I screwing out of a feature that they’ve counted on being there for years?” Building from the bottom has no such concern because they can’t miss what they never had.

    If you’ve ever worked a real software product you would know that adding features is easy. Removing features is terribly difficult. 

    Microsoft dealt with this by having two separate products, Visual Studio (in many versions) on top and Visual Studio Code building from the bottom and gradually adding more features and capabilities over time. Will these two products ever converge? I doubt it because the “top end” product continues to grow and add features for ever larger and more expansive requirements, like integrated DevOps support and cloud (Azure). I think Apple will encounter many of the same concerns and doesn’t want to hold back the top end product by chaining it to what they still see as a less capable platform. We may all be enamored with the M1 today, but in a few years the M1 will be the 8088 of Apple’s SoC lineup with far more capable chips overshadowing the M1.

    Finally, building in overcapacity is a way of life for many new products. Over time the workload thrown at the product may consume some of the capacity, but this is not always the case. I live in a household with two people and four bathrooms. Is this a Blown Pinto problem? Maybe we should “go pro” and start visiting Chipotle far more often to justify the excess bathroom capacity? 
    Actually, that is not the solution.  The solution is to bring features of macOS to iPadOS but reimagined for a touch first environment.  My wish for iPadOS is to become a modern desktop class touch first / touch  optimized OS.  
    edited June 11 williamlondonOferthttmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 128
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,685member
    When Apple released an external keyboard and trackpad for the iPad they essentially made it a 2 in 1 from the hardware perspective -- but forgot to upgrade the software accordingly.

    So, it's now a 2 in 1 running a touch based UI with an external keyboard and trackpad -- think of a MacPro running iPadOS instead of MacOS.   Pitiful.

    There are multiple ways to fix that.   The iPad team simply has to sit down and do it.

    This scene from the movie comes to mind:


    Ofermuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 49 of 128
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,179member
    A pity that DewMe’s post isn’t getting more traction here.

    I have very specific and narrow use cases for my 12.9 IPP that a MBP or some Microsoft-inspired Franken-device will absolutely not satisfy.  Yes, I also own a 16” MBP too.

    Complainers looking for one device for all use cases would be better served fleeing to Windows.  No one wants to admit they just can’t afford to have the best in class of both form factors.  That’s not Apple’s problem, it’s theirs.  And they’re trying to shift the problem to someone else than themselves.
    There are cases where someone cannot have two devices.  And while it's true that it's not Apple problem, there are many cases where you cannot blame the customer.  The pandemic have been very hard for many people, and they try to have the best device based in their budget.  And maybe they decide for a hybrid device, considering they have something they can use as a notebook and as a tablet.  

    Also there are cases where someone prefer a hybrid device.  I have a Surface Pro 4 and I have seen it's limitations, but also where it shines.  I see no difference from my Surface and my iPad when browsing the internet, use social apps or watch TV / movies in Netflix or Hulu.  Also works very good for annotating documents, spreadsheets and PDF files.  And when I'm on the office, I connect it to the Surface Dock and my 4K monitor and it works like a full desktop device.

    This doesn't means that the Surface is perfect.  Like I said before, I have seen many of it's limitations.  But it's clear that it has many benefits, and I can understand when someone prefers a Surface device over an IPad.  
    OferGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 50 of 128
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,266member
    When Apple released an external keyboard and trackpad for the iPad they essentially made it a 2 in 1 from the hardware perspective -- but forgot to upgrade the software accordingly.

    So, it's now a 2 in 1 running a touch based UI with an external keyboard and trackpad -- think of a MacPro running iPadOS instead of MacOS.   Pitiful.

    There are multiple ways to fix that.   The iPad team simply has to sit down and do it.

    This scene from the movie comes to mind:


    Equine corpse and baton are reunited once again!
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 128
    OferOfer Posts: 107unconfirmed, member
    rcfa said:
    I own an iPad since the first model that Apple brought to market. I justified the purchasing prices for my by now three iPads (original, Air, Pro), by comparing it with the cost, weight, bulk and hassle of producing, maintaining and carrying paper photo albums vs. carrying an iPad.

    Everything else, like watching Netflix in bed, jotting down a note, or quickly checking an e-mail, are fringe benefits. Despite the latest iPad of mine being a 12” A12X based iPad Pro with 1TB of storage, it NEVER was more for me than a photo album and media consumption device, and certainly NOTHING that deserved the name Pro, not even for something as trivial as e-mail does it deserve that name, for what sort of “Pro” solution is an e-mail system that doesn’t allow the user to inspect a messages RAW content to see if something is real or an elaborate phishing e-mail? At best, it might qualify as a semi-pro accessory to a Mac, if one uses it as a Wacom Tablet replacement with Sidecar or some third party software like AirDisplay.

    When the MagicKeyboard hit the market, it endeavored into an expensive experiment: would a MagicKeyboard change how I worked with the iPad Pro? Would a cigarette box sized Raspberry Pi 8GB RAM Linux system attached, networked and powered over the USB-C connection and operated over RDP, make up for some of the shortcomings of iPad OS (e.g. by running a real e-mail client like Thunderbird on the Raspberry, by having Mathematica on the Raspberry, by having development and network testing tools on the linux system, etc.)?

    The answer was a resounding YES in both cases, but more importantly, it showed me that the iPad Pro with MagicKeyboard was the HARDWARE I always wished a MacBook Air would be: Much better screen, touch screen, pen input, etc. At the same time, the more I worked with the MagicKeyboard, the more painful the shortcomings of iPadOS became.

    Yes, I get the difference between a mouse/trackpad&keyboard driven UI and a touch UI. I get that macOS is the former and iPadOS is the latter…
    …BUT, branding aside, macOS and iPadOS are fundamentally the same OS (Darwin), with different UI layers. With the new iPad Pros (A12X and up with 6GB RAM or more) there is no hardware issue with running macOS. And just as macOS apps can have a windowed mode and a full screen mode, there’s nothing that stops the same app from in addition having a touch UI mode. So one could have an adaptive OS, which adjusts the UI based on whether docked with pointing device and keyboard, or used standalone in touch UI mode.

    With the M1 version, and its up to 2TB of SSD and 16GB RAM, there could be even another solution: virtualization. Run macOS virtualized in an iPadOS app, and switch to it when docked, and suspend it when undocked. 

    Even working on a slow-poke system like a Raspberry Pi “remotely” over USB-C and RDP makes the iPad Pro feel like a seamless laptop, that lets me miss nothing (except for macOS rather than Linux), so how much better would a virtualized macOS be, that would run at nearly native speed, and would gain tablet input, and instant switching between iPadOS and macOS? How cool would it be to run Xcode on the virtualized macOS system, and then test the app directly on the iPad?

    It would be awesome, beyond words. And what would Apple have to do to make this possible? Nothing. Less than nothing. All they would need to do is to stop actively sabotaging virtualization apps on iPadOS, and a third party solution would spring up in short order.

    Now, why is Apple getting in its own way?

    The answer is easy: they don’t have “software and hardware divisions”, which if they did, they wouldn’t care which of their operating systems you ran on which of their hardware devices, but they have “Mac, iDevice, aTV, etc. divisions”, and so the Mac division has no interest in driving iDevice sales by spending man hours making their software available on the competing division’s hardware, while digging their own hardware’s grave. The video of how the iPad division went to steal the M1 chip from the Mac division, was in a strange way revealing of why we have the problems as Pro users with the iPad Pro and its media consumption platform operating system.
    The pessimist in me would offer another reason for why Apple won’t offer full MacOS capabilities on an iPad: $$. As long as they offer them as two different platforms with different capabilities they can continue to get people out there to purchase both. If they offered an iPad as a dockable system with full macOS capabilities it would cannibalise MacBook sales. Why purchase both if you can get an all-in-one experience. 
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 52 of 128
    I’ve had an iPad Pro 11” from day of release. It’s my main computer and I love it to bits.

    But, how many versions of iOS/iPadOS have been released where, on this top of the line, world’s best, Pro tablet, the Files app would not tell me the size of a folder’s contents? Where it provided the people, places, search, and most cropping and filter options from the Mac version of Photos, but inexplicably would not let me alter the location or date of a photo? Luckily I had a Mac to let me Mac those adjustments…

    People have been mentioning the gap between the iPad Pro’s potential and reality for some time and iPadOS 15 doesn’t look to shrink that gap by very much. I don’t want to run Logic Pro on here, I just want some practical and sensible improvements to the OS to let it fly higher.
    williamlondonOfercanukstormMplsPwatto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 128
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,266member
    When Apple released an external keyboard and trackpad for the iPad they essentially made it a 2 in 1 from the hardware perspective -- but forgot to upgrade the software accordingly.

    So, it's now a 2 in 1 running a touch based UI with an external keyboard and trackpad -- think of a MacPro running iPadOS instead of MacOS.   Pitiful.

    There are multiple ways to fix that.   The iPad team simply has to sit down and do it.

    This scene from the movie comes to mind:


    Even funnier is the fact that the attached video clip portrays Steve Jobs railing against creating “me too” products and firing a guy (who didn’t have time to fool with “pretty fonts”) for not seeing and implementing Apple’s unique vision. This was posted here in the belief that it somehow bolsters an argument that iPad is deficient as a 2-in-1 hybrid frankenpad and should correct that deficiency by being more like the Microsoft Surface. 
    edited June 11 williamlondonRayz2016thtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 128
    WgkruegerWgkrueger Posts: 347member
    danvm said:
    A pity that DewMe’s post isn’t getting more traction here.

    I have very specific and narrow use cases for my 12.9 IPP that a MBP or some Microsoft-inspired Franken-device will absolutely not satisfy.  Yes, I also own a 16” MBP too.

    Complainers looking for one device for all use cases would be better served fleeing to Windows.  No one wants to admit they just can’t afford to have the best in class of both form factors.  That’s not Apple’s problem, it’s theirs.  And they’re trying to shift the problem to someone else than themselves.
    There are cases where someone cannot have two devices.  And while it's true that it's not Apple problem, there are many cases where you cannot blame the customer.  The pandemic have been very hard for many people, and they try to have the best device based in their budget.  And maybe they decide for a hybrid device, considering they have something they can use as a notebook and as a tablet.  

    Also there are cases where someone prefer a hybrid device.  I have a Surface Pro 4 and I have seen it's limitations, but also where it shines.  I see no difference from my Surface and my iPad when browsing the internet, use social apps or watch TV / movies in Netflix or Hulu.  Also works very good for annotating documents, spreadsheets and PDF files.  And when I'm on the office, I connect it to the Surface Dock and my 4K monitor and it works like a full desktop device.

    This doesn't means that the Surface is perfect.  Like I said before, I have seen many of it's limitations.  But it's clear that it has many benefits, and I can understand when someone prefers a Surface device over an IPad.  
    The difference is that your Windows Surface device takes you out of the Apple ecosystem thereby denying you the entirety of it’s benefits. 
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 128
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,808member
    For the record a couple people I knew in high school built a car just like the one pictured. It was ridiculous. 
    williamlondonpscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 128
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,266member
    Ofer said:
    rcfa said:
    I own an iPad since the first model that Apple brought to market. I justified the purchasing prices for my by now three iPads (original, Air, Pro), by comparing it with the cost, weight, bulk and hassle of producing, maintaining and carrying paper photo albums vs. carrying an iPad.

    Everything else, like watching Netflix in bed, jotting down a note, or quickly checking an e-mail, are fringe benefits. Despite the latest iPad of mine being a 12” A12X based iPad Pro with 1TB of storage, it NEVER was more for me than a photo album and media consumption device, and certainly NOTHING that deserved the name Pro, not even for something as trivial as e-mail does it deserve that name, for what sort of “Pro” solution is an e-mail system that doesn’t allow the user to inspect a messages RAW content to see if something is real or an elaborate phishing e-mail? At best, it might qualify as a semi-pro accessory to a Mac, if one uses it as a Wacom Tablet replacement with Sidecar or some third party software like AirDisplay.

    When the MagicKeyboard hit the market, it endeavored into an expensive experiment: would a MagicKeyboard change how I worked with the iPad Pro? Would a cigarette box sized Raspberry Pi 8GB RAM Linux system attached, networked and powered over the USB-C connection and operated over RDP, make up for some of the shortcomings of iPad OS (e.g. by running a real e-mail client like Thunderbird on the Raspberry, by having Mathematica on the Raspberry, by having development and network testing tools on the linux system, etc.)?

    The answer was a resounding YES in both cases, but more importantly, it showed me that the iPad Pro with MagicKeyboard was the HARDWARE I always wished a MacBook Air would be: Much better screen, touch screen, pen input, etc. At the same time, the more I worked with the MagicKeyboard, the more painful the shortcomings of iPadOS became.

    Yes, I get the difference between a mouse/trackpad&keyboard driven UI and a touch UI. I get that macOS is the former and iPadOS is the latter…
    …BUT, branding aside, macOS and iPadOS are fundamentally the same OS (Darwin), with different UI layers. With the new iPad Pros (A12X and up with 6GB RAM or more) there is no hardware issue with running macOS. And just as macOS apps can have a windowed mode and a full screen mode, there’s nothing that stops the same app from in addition having a touch UI mode. So one could have an adaptive OS, which adjusts the UI based on whether docked with pointing device and keyboard, or used standalone in touch UI mode.

    With the M1 version, and its up to 2TB of SSD and 16GB RAM, there could be even another solution: virtualization. Run macOS virtualized in an iPadOS app, and switch to it when docked, and suspend it when undocked. 

    Even working on a slow-poke system like a Raspberry Pi “remotely” over USB-C and RDP makes the iPad Pro feel like a seamless laptop, that lets me miss nothing (except for macOS rather than Linux), so how much better would a virtualized macOS be, that would run at nearly native speed, and would gain tablet input, and instant switching between iPadOS and macOS? How cool would it be to run Xcode on the virtualized macOS system, and then test the app directly on the iPad?

    It would be awesome, beyond words. And what would Apple have to do to make this possible? Nothing. Less than nothing. All they would need to do is to stop actively sabotaging virtualization apps on iPadOS, and a third party solution would spring up in short order.

    Now, why is Apple getting in its own way?

    The answer is easy: they don’t have “software and hardware divisions”, which if they did, they wouldn’t care which of their operating systems you ran on which of their hardware devices, but they have “Mac, iDevice, aTV, etc. divisions”, and so the Mac division has no interest in driving iDevice sales by spending man hours making their software available on the competing division’s hardware, while digging their own hardware’s grave. The video of how the iPad division went to steal the M1 chip from the Mac division, was in a strange way revealing of why we have the problems as Pro users with the iPad Pro and its media consumption platform operating system.
    The pessimist in me would offer another reason for why Apple won’t offer full MacOS capabilities on an iPad: $$. As long as they offer them as two different platforms with different capabilities they can continue to get people out there to purchase both. If they offered an iPad as a dockable system with full macOS capabilities it would cannibalise MacBook sales. Why purchase both if you can get an all-in-one experience. 
    Or, combining the two would create a single device that’s not as good as either machine separately. 
    tmaywilliamlondonRayz2016watto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 128
    WgkruegerWgkrueger Posts: 347member
    I plan on updating to the 2021 iPad Pro 12.9 inch from my 2018 iPad Pro soon so first off thanks to all those who are canceling your orders, it’ll shorten the delivery time for my order, Second, I want the latest iteration of the iPad Pro so I can benefit from the future updates that will come for the M1 chip based devices. Thirdly the screen is better than any other out there although that’s really a need it is a plus. 
    tmaywilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 58 of 128
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,266member
    danvm said:
    A pity that DewMe’s post isn’t getting more traction here.

    I have very specific and narrow use cases for my 12.9 IPP that a MBP or some Microsoft-inspired Franken-device will absolutely not satisfy.  Yes, I also own a 16” MBP too.

    Complainers looking for one device for all use cases would be better served fleeing to Windows.  No one wants to admit they just can’t afford to have the best in class of both form factors.  That’s not Apple’s problem, it’s theirs.  And they’re trying to shift the problem to someone else than themselves.
    There are cases where someone cannot have two devices.  And while it's true that it's not Apple problem, there are many cases where you cannot blame the customer.  The pandemic have been very hard for many people, and they try to have the best device based in their budget.  And maybe they decide for a hybrid device, considering they have something they can use as a notebook and as a tablet.  

    Also there are cases where someone prefer a hybrid device.  I have a Surface Pro 4 and I have seen it's limitations, but also where it shines.  I see no difference from my Surface and my iPad when browsing the internet, use social apps or watch TV / movies in Netflix or Hulu.  Also works very good for annotating documents, spreadsheets and PDF files.  And when I'm on the office, I connect it to the Surface Dock and my 4K monitor and it works like a full desktop device.

    This doesn't means that the Surface is perfect.  Like I said before, I have seen many of it's limitations.  But it's clear that it has many benefits, and I can understand when someone prefers a Surface device over an IPad.  
    I can see that, too, which is why it’s great that the Surface exists for people who want one. 

    What I can’t see is why people who want a Surface feel compelled to insist that people who want an iPad and/or a MacBook should lose those choices by having iPad and MacBooks forcibly merged to become “me too” copies of the Surface.
    williamlondonRayz2016tmaypscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 128
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,808member
    AppleZulu said:
    ITGUYINSD said:
    AppleZulu said:
    So Apple releases expensive hardware with obvious capacity for future expansion of operating system capabilities, and the complaint is that the OS doesn’t max out the hardware out of the gate. Got it.

    Of course, if iPadOS already took full advantage of the capabilities of the M1 model, there would be much louder complaints about how last year’s pre-M1 hardware has been rendered obsolete so quickly by OS features the pre-M1 devices can’t handle. 
    "Out of the gate"?  iPadOS 14.5 was what was on the iPad Pro M1 out of the gate.  To be honest, what I saw on WWDC should have been iPadOS 14.6.  
    When there is a major version number change, I expect big changes.  iPadOS 15 has been in the works for quite a while.  Apple had plenty of time to design it to utilize the power of the M1 platform.  Instead we get pretty much nothing.  I think that is the point being made here.
    Fortunately, Apple doesn’t build its plans around fiduciary quarters or itchy chat forum myopia. The M1 iPad hardware surely foreshadows interesting plans for coming years, despite all the kids who demand to be served cake as an appetizer. 
    I see what you’re saying, but I’ve been around computers long enough to be a bit gun-shy when something comes out and there are promises that “trust us it will be used/implimented in a year or so”. I have a history of computers with PDS slots, NuBuss slots, ports that “just need drivers”, and more that never actually became functional. I mean products from Apple and a lot of other manufacturers. This time we are only getting these assertions from columnists, leakers, and random people on the web, and not from Apple so it’s even sketchier. Will I get a new iPadPro? Probably, but iOS 15 did nothing to whet my appetite. Multitasking is better, but not full bore. We’ll see what the Files app does, it’s getting better, but it’s not full function. External monitor support is not improved at all. There’s a LOT of RAM in these things, but what is it for? I will be watching as iOS15 comes more clearly into focus over the next three months. That will likely define if I go for a 2021 iPP or wait to see what happens next year. 
    edited June 11 canukstormOfermuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 128
    thedbathedba Posts: 667member
    danvm said:
    dewme said:
    Didn’t AI recently publish an article about how the iPad Pro, even with its multi-gigabytes of system RAM, was still setting a HARD LIMIT on how much RAM an application can utilize? That pretty much tells you everything you need to know about why the current XCode will not run on the iPad Pro.

     iPadOS != macOS

    There are more underlying architectural differences between macOS and iPadOS than you may believe, despite the fact that they are rooted in a common code base at the kernel level. As long as Apple is intent on maintaining and enhancing Mac and iPad separately there will always be a gap between these two products. The “solution” to the Blown Pinto dilemma is to put macOS on the iPad Pro, the “MS Surface Model,” but Apple has not yet demonstrated a desire to do so.

    The problem with Surface Model is that it is a compromise. Another phrase for “compromise” is “both sides are losing something.” For Surface this means a shitty tablet user experience for tablet aficionados and a puny ass screen for desktop PC aficionados. With compromise everyone loses something. Apple is not yet willing to commit to pushing this sort of compromise on its customers. 
    The iPadOS is also compromised.  iPadOS is an excellent as a tablet, but as soon as you add keyboard + trackpad it's terrible.  That's the opposite from the Surface, which is not that good as a tablet (even though Apple had to copy some elements, like multitasking and side-by-side apps) but it's very good with keyboard + trackpad.  At the end, every device has some compromise.  Now we have to wait and see what they do with iPad.  Are they going to keep the current set of compromises we are seeing today, or they will move to a "Surface (toaster / fridge)" device/?  It think we'll have the answer in the next few years.  
    The MS Surface is a PC, not a tablet. It runs a desktop OS. 
    Why would developers even bother redesigning any of their apps if the regular Windows 10 version works just fine?
    Why would users bother learning a new interface if they can always fall back to their regular keyboard/trackpad habits?

    In the end MS Surface is just a very compact PC with some tablet capabilities. I call that a toaster/oven (I really do think toaster/fridge is an exaggeration). 
    Not a great toaster (often burns it) and not a great oven, unless your diet strictly consists of Mozzarella sticks and Pizza pockets. 

    sagan_studentwilliamlondonRayz2016thtwatto_cobra
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