Patreon doesn't pay Apple's 30% App Store commission, and its CEO isn't sure why not
Patreon's CEO Jack Conte has confirmed that the platform doesn't pay the Apple's commission on App Store purchases -- and it doesn't have a special deal with the iPhone maker.
Credit: Patreon
Apple takes a 30% (or 15%) cut of app and in-app purchases on the App Store. Patreon, a platform that allows fans to support content creators, doesn't pay that commission. In a recent interview with The Verge, Patreon CEO Jack Conte said that he isn't sure why the company isn't subject to the fees.
Conte confirmed that Patreon doesn't have any sort of special arrangement or contract with Apple. He added that Patreon has to "deal with the App Store policies and review process like anybody else."
He noted that sometimes there are delays in approval of updates, and changes need to be made.
"Why don't we have to pay fees? I think it's because, for whatever reason, we're within Apple's guidelines, and we haven't had to pay fees," Conte added.
Conte recalled one point, about four years prior, when Apple rejected the Patreon app, which led to a conversation between the two companies. Although Patreon's CEO didn't remember the specifics of the situation or what app changes were made, he said the parties eventually "figured it out" and Patreon got its approval.
The Patreon chief executive went on to explain that most of the engagement on the platform occurs on places outside the App Store, such as Discord. He also added that, currently, Patreon funnels users to a web flow for signups.
It isn't clear why Patreon is an exception to Apple's payment processing rules. Apple's guidelines do allow apps to bypass in-app purchases for certain monetary gifts, but that exception doesn't apply to gifts connected with digital content or services -- a common benefit given to fans by Patreon creators.
Conte reiterated that only a "tiny portion of pledges" actually occur on the iOS Patreon app.
The Verge also asked about a recent campaign by Fanhouse, which is similar to Patreon, that calls for Apple to decouple its commission policy from payments directly to content creators. Conte said he was aware of Fanhouse's campaign, but didn't add much else.
When asked again to offer clarity about any "direct conversations" with Apple's App Review team, Conte didn't offer much new information.
"Well, we have multiple times as we've gone through the review process. That has come up. I think it came up again a few years ago, and that's when we actually got delayed. And again, I don't remember what the changes were, but we made some changes, and then we passed the review process. And it worked," Conte said.
The Verge said it reached out to Apple to inquire why Patreon isn't subject to its payment processing rules, but has yet to hear back.
Keep up with everything Apple in the weekly AppleInsider Podcast -- and get a fast news update from AppleInsider Daily. Just say, "Hey, Siri," to your HomePod mini and ask for these podcasts, and our latest HomeKit Insider episode too.If you want an ad-free main AppleInsider Podcast experience, you can support the AppleInsider podcast by subscribing for $5 per month through Apple's Podcasts app, or via Patreon if you prefer any other podcast player.AppleInsider is also bringing you the best Apple-related deals for Amazon Prime Day 2021. There are bargains before, during, and even after Prime Day on June 21 and 22 -- with every deal at your fingertips throughout the event.
Credit: Patreon
Apple takes a 30% (or 15%) cut of app and in-app purchases on the App Store. Patreon, a platform that allows fans to support content creators, doesn't pay that commission. In a recent interview with The Verge, Patreon CEO Jack Conte said that he isn't sure why the company isn't subject to the fees.
Conte confirmed that Patreon doesn't have any sort of special arrangement or contract with Apple. He added that Patreon has to "deal with the App Store policies and review process like anybody else."
He noted that sometimes there are delays in approval of updates, and changes need to be made.
"Why don't we have to pay fees? I think it's because, for whatever reason, we're within Apple's guidelines, and we haven't had to pay fees," Conte added.
Conte recalled one point, about four years prior, when Apple rejected the Patreon app, which led to a conversation between the two companies. Although Patreon's CEO didn't remember the specifics of the situation or what app changes were made, he said the parties eventually "figured it out" and Patreon got its approval.
The Patreon chief executive went on to explain that most of the engagement on the platform occurs on places outside the App Store, such as Discord. He also added that, currently, Patreon funnels users to a web flow for signups.
It isn't clear why Patreon is an exception to Apple's payment processing rules. Apple's guidelines do allow apps to bypass in-app purchases for certain monetary gifts, but that exception doesn't apply to gifts connected with digital content or services -- a common benefit given to fans by Patreon creators.
Conte reiterated that only a "tiny portion of pledges" actually occur on the iOS Patreon app.
The Verge also asked about a recent campaign by Fanhouse, which is similar to Patreon, that calls for Apple to decouple its commission policy from payments directly to content creators. Conte said he was aware of Fanhouse's campaign, but didn't add much else.
When asked again to offer clarity about any "direct conversations" with Apple's App Review team, Conte didn't offer much new information.
"Well, we have multiple times as we've gone through the review process. That has come up. I think it came up again a few years ago, and that's when we actually got delayed. And again, I don't remember what the changes were, but we made some changes, and then we passed the review process. And it worked," Conte said.
The Verge said it reached out to Apple to inquire why Patreon isn't subject to its payment processing rules, but has yet to hear back.
Keep up with everything Apple in the weekly AppleInsider Podcast -- and get a fast news update from AppleInsider Daily. Just say, "Hey, Siri," to your HomePod mini and ask for these podcasts, and our latest HomeKit Insider episode too.If you want an ad-free main AppleInsider Podcast experience, you can support the AppleInsider podcast by subscribing for $5 per month through Apple's Podcasts app, or via Patreon if you prefer any other podcast player.AppleInsider is also bringing you the best Apple-related deals for Amazon Prime Day 2021. There are bargains before, during, and even after Prime Day on June 21 and 22 -- with every deal at your fingertips throughout the event.
Comments
It's against the guidelines to advertise alternative payment methods in order to circumvent app store payments. You can refer to payment methods as long as they don't circumvent payments Apple would feel entitled to a part of, as part of the guidelines.
That plays out in the following very clear way: You can't buy e-books from Amazon using either that Amazon nor the Kindle app. You can buy physical goods. The app says you have to buy e-books using their web site, but does not provide a link. Providing a link would violate the guidelines.
This is really really old news to Apple developers. It's not magic; it's not mysterious; and it's all there in the terms and conditions we have to sign. That the Patreon CEO doesn't know or recall the details is not surprising; lots of other stuff for a CEO to worry about when it's not a primarily Apple-centric business.
And note to CEOs: not usually a great idea to go public with your ignorance of business-essential contracts.
I used to have a subscription to digital products on Patreon. Yes it cost money.
Maybe the app removes access to digital goods?
So? If offering “different purposes” is a way to avoid App Store fees then MY GOODNESS we have a loophole ready to be exploited by everyone! Epic would just have to say “we do other things too!” And bam! Fee-free.
I haven’t used the app so maybe they removed digital products on the app?
"This sounds like something you should definitely know. Isn’t this a long-term risk to Patreon? That Apple will listen to this and wake up and give you a call and say, “Time to pay the fee.”
That is the question directly following the quote where Jack doesn't really know why they don't pay it and the resulting convo goes into a far deeper explanation of why they likely aren't afoul of the rules (and wouldn't really care of Apple does start making them pay the fee).
If you read the full interview and still think Jack is ignorant or lazy ... well, I'm all out of crayons, sorry.