Apple wants 'Apple Car' batteries made in US, claims report

AppleInsider · July 13, 2021 10:00AM

Chinese firms are said to have baulked at Apple's insistence on making "Apple Car" batteries in US, meaning it's more probable that the vehicle will be made by Taiwanese manufacturers.

Porsche's 800-volt battery pack, located in the floor of the car.

Despite previous reports that Apple was in talks with Chinese battery manufacturers for the "Apple Car," it is claimed that any deal is now unlikely. According to Digitimes, neither of China's two largest battery suppliers, CATL and BYD, want to meet Apple's requirement for US production.

The same unspecified sources claim that it is therefore now more likely that Taiwan-based Foxconn, or Advanced Lithium Electrochemistry, will partner with Apple. Both companies are currently planning to build battery facilities in the US.

Apple has been rumored to be working with China's CATL over battery research since at least 2017.

Digitimes is a reliable source of data as it pertains to Apple's supply chain. It is a notably poorer source for details on Apple's specific plans. Tuesday's report is more of the former than the latter.

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hentaiboy · July 13, 2021 11:39AM

So let me get this right…

1. Ship raw materials to the US.
2. Make batteries.

3. Ship batteries to Far East.
4. Make Apple Car.
5. Ship cars to US.

So much for EVs saving the planet 🤔

[Deleted User] · July 13, 2021 12:22PM

hentaiboy said:

So let me get this right…

1. Ship raw materials to the US.
2. Make batteries.
3. Ship batteries to Far East.
4. Make Apple Car.
5. Ship cars to US.

So much for EVs saving the planet 🤔

No, steps 1, 3, 4 and 5 are not mentioned in the AI article or the source article. Your comment is a fantastic example of a straw man though.

qwerty52 · July 13, 2021 12:28PM

hentaiboy said:

So let me get this right…

1. Ship raw materials to the US.
2. Make batteries.
3. Ship batteries to Far East.
4. Make Apple Car.
5. Ship cars to US.

So much for EVs saving the planet 🤔

Who says, Apple Car will be made in Far East and not in US facilities?

Very happy with the no_deal_news.

Any dependence on even a single China’s company, it’s one too much

Kuyangkoh · July 13, 2021 12:34PM

Apple dont care who or where it is made, provided they make a ton of money…..but that’s a good PR

loopless · July 13, 2021 1:24PM

I don’t know who is pushing this foolish vanity project inside Apple but please no. You cant compete with the VW’s, GM’S etc when it comes to building cars no matter how good the car is.

larryjw · July 13, 2021 1:46PM

Apple had to make the effort.

But, one thing is clear. China, Taiwan, SK, Vietnam, India either has or will have the infrastructure (people, education, transportation, skills, persistence, entrepreneurship), to build what Apple wants.

What is also clear is, after decades of US decline in these same areas, the US cannot compete.

Sure, if the US invests in massive infrastructure, in maybe 30 years, the US might be an option — but not now — and not ever if the US continues the same policies and priorities of the last 40 years.

Wgkrueger · July 13, 2021 2:34PM

loopless said:

I don’t know who is pushing this foolish vanity project inside Apple but please no. You cant compete with the VW’s, GM’S etc when it comes to building cars no matter how good the car is.

*cough*Tesla*cough*

Rayz2016 · July 13, 2021 3:30PM

loopless said:

I don’t know who is pushing this foolish vanity project inside Apple but please no. You cant compete with the VW’s, GM’S etc when it comes to building cars no matter how good the car is.

I think the head of Nokia said something along the same lines when he heard about the iPhone.

libertyandfree · July 13, 2021 4:05PM

If they are still discussing battery manufacturing partnership in 2021 how dang far behind is Apple in the EV car development. They have demonstrated no autos to date let alone in low volume production. I highly doubt Apple is really in the EV car making business.

GeorgeBMac · July 13, 2021 4:06PM

larryjw said:

Apple had to make the effort.

But, one thing is clear. China, Taiwan, SK, Vietnam, India either has or will have the infrastructure (people, education, transportation, skills, persistence, entrepreneurship), to build what Apple wants.

What is also clear is, after decades of US decline in these same areas, the US cannot compete.

Sure, if the US invests in massive infrastructure, in maybe 30 years, the US might be an option — but not now — and not ever if the US continues the same policies and priorities of the last 40 years.
4

Yes, it started 50-60 years ago, but we, in our hubris, didn't see it. But then:

40 years ago, in the 80's, Japan crushed our electronics, auto and steel industries.

Instead of coming to grips with that, figuring out how and why that happened, the U.S. puffed up its chest and made excuses...

40 years after the fact, it still hasn't figured out what happened and has done nothing to correct the situation. Instead, like it did 50 years ago with Japan, the U.S. is, today, making excuses: "Copycats", "ip theft", "cheap/slave/forced labor" etc....

The trouble is: long term, global markets are free markets -- survival of the fittest. Those who can't compete die off.

But, that was what globalization was all about: Developing and exploiting those areas where we could compete on a global level.

libertyandfree · July 13, 2021 4:07PM

Rayz2016 said:

loopless said:

I don’t know who is pushing this foolish vanity project inside Apple but please no. You cant compete with the VW’s, GM’S etc when it comes to building cars no matter how good the car is.

I think the head of Nokia said something along the same lines when he heard about the iPhone.

Big difference is Apple totally redefined what a mobile phone was whereas Apple is just a me too in the EV space right now. Hard to see how Apple can have anywhere near the impact in EV autos since the leadership is currently held by Tesla.

libertyandfree · July 13, 2021 4:15PM

GeorgeBMac said:

larryjw said:

Apple had to make the effort.

But, one thing is clear. China, Taiwan, SK, Vietnam, India either has or will have the infrastructure (people, education, transportation, skills, persistence, entrepreneurship), to build what Apple wants.

What is also clear is, after decades of US decline in these same areas, the US cannot compete.

Sure, if the US invests in massive infrastructure, in maybe 30 years, the US might be an option — but not now — and not ever if the US continues the same policies and priorities of the last 40 years.
4

Yes, it started 50-60 years ago, but we, in our hubris, didn't see it.   But then:
40 years ago, in the 80's, Japan crushed our electronics, auto and steel industries.
Instead of coming to grips with that, figuring out how and why that happened, the U.S. puffed up its chest and made excuses...
40 years after the fact, it still hasn't figured out what happened and has done nothing to correct the situation.   Instead, like it did 50 years ago with Japan, the U.S. is, today, making excuses: "Copycats", "ip theft", "cheap/slave/forced labor" etc....

The trouble is: long term, global markets are free markets -- survival of the fittest. Those who can't compete die off.
But, that was what globalization was all about:   Developing and exploiting those areas where we could compete on a global level.

Labor intensive industries is very high cost in any developed countries, it’s not just a US problem. You compared the US to third world countries where labor is dirt cheap and regulations are close to non existent. Yes Taiwan is not a 3rd world country and have semiconductor leadership but the USA also has that in III-V materials and some silicon. We can gain back leadership in some of these high technology areas (if we want to) in a few years time it will not take decades.

waveparticle · July 13, 2021 5:28PM

GeorgeBMac said:

larryjw said:

Apple had to make the effort.

But, one thing is clear. China, Taiwan, SK, Vietnam, India either has or will have the infrastructure (people, education, transportation, skills, persistence, entrepreneurship), to build what Apple wants.

What is also clear is, after decades of US decline in these same areas, the US cannot compete.

Sure, if the US invests in massive infrastructure, in maybe 30 years, the US might be an option — but not now — and not ever if the US continues the same policies and priorities of the last 40 years.
4

Yes, it started 50-60 years ago, but we, in our hubris, didn't see it.   But then:
40 years ago, in the 80's, Japan crushed our electronics, auto and steel industries.
Instead of coming to grips with that, figuring out how and why that happened, the U.S. puffed up its chest and made excuses...
40 years after the fact, it still hasn't figured out what happened and has done nothing to correct the situation.   Instead, like it did 50 years ago with Japan, the U.S. is, today, making excuses: "Copycats", "ip theft", "cheap/slave/forced labor" etc....

The trouble is: long term, global markets are free markets -- survival of the fittest. Those who can't compete die off.
But, that was what globalization was all about:   Developing and exploiting those areas where we could compete on a global level.

China participated in this global digital information revolution global economic boom peacefully since forty years ago. US government didn't do anything because the freedom democratic system and capitalism does not see the need for government.

sflocal · July 13, 2021 6:06PM

I understand that the US has lost its manufacturing competitive edge long ago, but that doesn't man it can't make the attempt anymore.

Apple is in a position to actually make things happen. Apple has to do more to get away from China. This also includes getting away from China-owned companies in other countries like Vietnam which are used to skirt around the restrictions.

The U.S. is not a cheap place to build stuff, even if it means taking smaller steps and building the factories in Canada or Mexico - countries already building our cars - then that would be a good first step. Anything to give the middle-finger to the CCP.

China's response is also hypocritical. I'd bet money that if the Apple-car is successful here, China will require that Apple build its car in China in order to sell to the Chinese market. It already requires that of many companies, but when we demand it - China says "no"? Screw them.

crowley · July 13, 2021 6:35PM

Wgkrueger said:

loopless said:

I don’t know who is pushing this foolish vanity project inside Apple but please no. You cant compete with the VW’s, GM’S etc when it comes to building cars no matter how good the car is.

*cough*Tesla*cough*

Tesla sold half a million cars last year. VW sold over 6 million. Tesla are doing remarkably well, but to say they're substantially competing with the big dogs would be stretching it.

GeorgeBMac · July 13, 2021 6:52PM

libertyandfree said:

GeorgeBMac said:

larryjw said:

Apple had to make the effort.

But, one thing is clear. China, Taiwan, SK, Vietnam, India either has or will have the infrastructure (people, education, transportation, skills, persistence, entrepreneurship), to build what Apple wants.

What is also clear is, after decades of US decline in these same areas, the US cannot compete.

Sure, if the US invests in massive infrastructure, in maybe 30 years, the US might be an option — but not now — and not ever if the US continues the same policies and priorities of the last 40 years.
4

Yes, it started 50-60 years ago, but we, in our hubris, didn't see it.   But then:
40 years ago, in the 80's, Japan crushed our electronics, auto and steel industries.
Instead of coming to grips with that, figuring out how and why that happened, the U.S. puffed up its chest and made excuses...
40 years after the fact, it still hasn't figured out what happened and has done nothing to correct the situation.   Instead, like it did 50 years ago with Japan, the U.S. is, today, making excuses: "Copycats", "ip theft", "cheap/slave/forced labor" etc....

The trouble is: long term, global markets are free markets -- survival of the fittest. Those who can't compete die off.
But, that was what globalization was all about:   Developing and exploiting those areas where we could compete on a global level.

Labor intensive industries is very high cost in any developed countries, it’s not just a US problem. You compared the US to third world countries where labor is dirt cheap and regulations are close to non existent. Yes Taiwan is not a 3rd world country and have semiconductor leadership but the USA also has that in III-V materials and some silicon. We can gain back leadership in some of these high technology areas (if we want to) in a few years time it will not take decades.

That's an excellent example of the American hubris I was referring too!

No, I didn't compare the U.S. to third world countries. I said Japan came in and took over our electronics, steel and automotive manufacturing. They didn't do it with low cost labor. They made higher quality electronics, steel and autos quicker & cheaper and drove American manufacturers under -- along with a number of ancilliary industries.

Once the U.S. comes to grips with that we may be able to find a way to compete in those areas once again.

But, we keep making excuses instead of identifying and fixing the problem.

GeorgeBMac · July 13, 2021 6:56PM

waveparticle said:

GeorgeBMac said:

larryjw said:

Apple had to make the effort.

But, one thing is clear. China, Taiwan, SK, Vietnam, India either has or will have the infrastructure (people, education, transportation, skills, persistence, entrepreneurship), to build what Apple wants.

What is also clear is, after decades of US decline in these same areas, the US cannot compete.

Sure, if the US invests in massive infrastructure, in maybe 30 years, the US might be an option — but not now — and not ever if the US continues the same policies and priorities of the last 40 years.
4

Yes, it started 50-60 years ago, but we, in our hubris, didn't see it.   But then:
40 years ago, in the 80's, Japan crushed our electronics, auto and steel industries.
Instead of coming to grips with that, figuring out how and why that happened, the U.S. puffed up its chest and made excuses...
40 years after the fact, it still hasn't figured out what happened and has done nothing to correct the situation.   Instead, like it did 50 years ago with Japan, the U.S. is, today, making excuses: "Copycats", "ip theft", "cheap/slave/forced labor" etc....

The trouble is: long term, global markets are free markets -- survival of the fittest. Those who can't compete die off.
But, that was what globalization was all about:   Developing and exploiting those areas where we could compete on a global level.

China participated in this global digital information revolution global economic boom peacefully since forty years ago. US government didn't do anything because the freedom democratic system and capitalism does not see the need for government.

That's mostly the right who were activated by Reagan and since have become out of control ideologues who say "corporation good -- government bad".

GeorgeBMac · July 13, 2021 7:03PM

sflocal said:

I understand that the US has lost its manufacturing competitive edge long ago, but that doesn't man it can't make the attempt anymore.

Apple is in a position to actually make things happen. Apple has to do more to get away from China. This also includes getting away from China-owned companies in other countries like Vietnam which are used to skirt around the restrictions.

The U.S. is not a cheap place to build stuff, even if it means taking smaller steps and building the factories in Canada or Mexico - countries already building our cars - then that would be a good first step. Anything to give the middle-finger to the CCP.

China's response is also hypocritical. I'd bet money that if the Apple-car is successful here, China will require that Apple build its car in China in order to sell to the Chinese market. It already requires that of many companies, but when we demand it - China says "no"? Screw them.

That's just a rehash of the "build/buy American" movement that rose and failed in the 80's and 90's as Japan was eating our lunch -- and that Trump tried to resurrect during his regime. Japan & China didn't take our manufacturing because they did it cheaper. They built stuff better, faster and cheaper. Toyota & Honda set the gold standard for quality. Apple has been clear that they do not manufacturer in China because its cheaper.

Aside from the fact that it makes zero difference to the U.S. if a car or phone is built in China or in Mexico, if we want to compete with either, we need to become more competitive. The problem is not with China, Vietnam, Japan or Mexico. They didn't take it from us. We gave it away.

waveparticle · July 13, 2021 8:14PM

GeorgeBMac said:

sflocal said:

I understand that the US has lost its manufacturing competitive edge long ago, but that doesn't man it can't make the attempt anymore.

Apple is in a position to actually make things happen. Apple has to do more to get away from China. This also includes getting away from China-owned companies in other countries like Vietnam which are used to skirt around the restrictions.

The U.S. is not a cheap place to build stuff, even if it means taking smaller steps and building the factories in Canada or Mexico - countries already building our cars - then that would be a good first step. Anything to give the middle-finger to the CCP.

China's response is also hypocritical. I'd bet money that if the Apple-car is successful here, China will require that Apple build its car in China in order to sell to the Chinese market. It already requires that of many companies, but when we demand it - China says "no"? Screw them.

That's just a rehash of the "build/buy American" movement that rose and failed in the 80's and 90's as Japan was eating our lunch -- and that Trump tried to resurrect during his regime. Japan & China didn't take our manufacturing because they did it cheaper. They built stuff better, faster and cheaper. Toyota & Honda set the gold standard for quality. Apple has been clear that they do not manufacturer in China because its cheaper.

Aside from the fact that it makes zero difference to the U.S. if a car or phone is built in China or in Mexico, if we want to compete with either, we need to become more competitive. The problem is not with China, Vietnam, Japan or Mexico. They didn't take it from us. We gave it away.

From the financial point of view, the force is the value of the dollar. After WWII US becomes the sole power of the world. It needs a credible dollar to keep economy engine running. No debt and no inflation and backed by the gold. Unfortunately, US fought Vietnam war by itself. The war created big financial drain of US budget. Nixon decoupled dollar with gold. Gold prices skyrocketed. OPEC felt it is selling oil too cheaply and lauched an oil embargo. These factors cause inflation to go up and out of control. Carter was not able to fight inflation. President Reagan advocated free economy and successfully broke the labor union grip on US companies. In the meantime, Reagon spent lavishly on military budgets and causing deficit to rise. Meanwhile, US and China established diplomatic relations. This allowed US companies find lots of cheap labor to make better profit. Inflation pressure gradually receded in the late Reagon years. I could go on and on with what Bush, Clinton did later. It looks everything proceeded by the invisible hand of money. The question is what US should do to insure the continued prosperity of American people.

Wgkrueger · July 13, 2021 9:36PM

crowley said:

Wgkrueger said:

loopless said:

I don’t know who is pushing this foolish vanity project inside Apple but please no. You cant compete with the VW’s, GM’S etc when it comes to building cars no matter how good the car is.

*cough*Tesla*cough*

Tesla sold half a million cars last year. VW sold over 6 million. Tesla are doing remarkably well, but to say they're substantially competing with the big dogs would be stretching it.

There’s more to Tesla vs the “big dogs” than sales volumes. Tesla will beat and exceed the dinosaurs that VW and GM are, where their ponderous processes will result in their inability to compete and eventually result in their bankruptcy.

Apple wants 'Apple Car' batteries made in US, claims report

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