No big deal! (IF it is only used as a backup -- and if the user is promptly notified of the failure)
You're original data is still intact -- you just need to replace the hardware.
In the case of harddrives it is best to expect a failure rather than being surprised by one. That is why, if you have critical data it is best that it is backup in more than one spot.
In my machines, I have moved the original harddrive over to the backup slot and replaced it with an SSD that is not only newer and (hopefully) more reliable but a hell of a lot faster -- so my data is stored on the SSD and the backup is on the old harddrive. If the old harddrive dies I'll simply replace it with one of the ones I have laying around.
Years ago when I was a Cost Accountant we lost an entire year's worth of data because 3 backups of it were lost or destroyed. It showed me the value of data: Everything else on a computer can be repaired or replaced. But not the data. Once it's gone it's gone forever.
The Thinkpad I'm using right now has spots for 3 separate drives. This one is not used for critical data so I only have two of them used (the prime spot and one backup -- but if I move it over to use it for financial data I will add a third and run dual backups on it.
For Apple's laptops -- and especially for their iPads -- that is not an option. The iPads automatically backup to iCloud. I think Apple should initiate the same for their laptops. That is, in fact, an ideal way to backup a backup: If, say, my house burns down I my data would be backup off site and safe waiting to be restored once I replaced the house and the laptop.
A lot of big-name ISPs cap residential account upload speeds significantly below their advertised broadband download speeds. (One might imagine this is to prevent residential accounts from being used to host websites of any significant nature.) Likewise, many have overall monthly data transfer caps that would quickly be surpassed by the size of an initial computer hard drive’s backup. Worse, if a household has more than one notebook or desktop computer. Until these practices are no longer standard, offsite cloud backups aren’t a viable option for residential customers.
Offsite backups are not a viable option for SOME residential customers. Most though have harddrives in the 256-500Gb area where the initial backup can be done overnight and, like with iOS and Windows "file history", incremental backups are taken as needed.
Apple showed how that can and does work with iOS and iPadOS. I think they need to add that to MacOS. And, as MacOS is upgraded and folded more and more into Apple's modern ecosystem, I think they will.
The upload speed cap and total monthly data cap issues are common for major ISPs like AT&T, Comcast and many others. Those issues make a time machine-type backup to the cloud not viable for probably a majority of residential customers. An initial time machine backup to an onsite time capsule when connected via Ethernet is an overnight proposition. A speed-capped offsite initial backup would take considerably longer. The option mentioned by @dewme above where a company allows the user to ship in an HDD with a full initial backup is an interesting workaround, but it’s not something the average consumer will do. It also doesn’t help if the user needs a complete disk recovery and the offsite backup is larger than the user’s monthly data cap.
For iOS devices, the iCloud backups you’re referring to are not full backups. They’re partial backups of ‘the important stuff,’ part of a user’s data. They are not the full backups that are done when you back up your iOS devices to a Mac via iTunes or Finder.
Perhaps a cloud backup of “important stuff” from a user’s documents folder might be a reasonable compromise to avert complete disasters, but it’s not a full backup.
Until major ISPs regularly provide residential customers with unthrottled 2-way bandwidth and unlimited data, offsite cloud backups aren’t going to be a simple, viable option for most residential customers.
I have no data caps on my cable. That may be a regional thing -- like where you only have one to choose from. Here I bounce back and forth between Comcast and Verizon based on the best deal. Right now Comcast is offering 100Mbs with a 12 month contract for $40 while Verizon is offering 200Mbs without a contract for the same amount I'll be back on Verizon by the end of the month.
And, when I restore my iPhone I get everything back except stored passwords*.
I don't see why they couldn't do the same for MacOS. And, if your carrier imposes data caps then turn the backup off if you want.
* Although that may at least partially be because all apps came from Apple's App store.
Run a speed test. A dollar to a donut says your 100 Mbs plan does about 15 or 20 for upload speed.
You iPhone restoration experience is exactly because apps are reinstalled from the App Store and not recovered from your backup. MacOS isn’t going to work that way. As a result, a partial MacOS backup of user data with apps reinstalled rather than recovered from backup would result in a mess upon which Apple wouldn’t put its name.
I'm sure that upload speed is 15 or 20 Mbs. But that's fine. It's not a data cap.
And, Apple could backup and restore Macs to / from iCloud just as they do iOS and iPadOS. For those who like to bypass the App Store and side load their own -- well they'll have to do that again. Too bad. Next time use the App Store. It doesn't mean that Apple should not use all of their facilities to serve their customers the best they can.
It’s not Apple’s general practice to offer something that won’t “just work.” A Mac iCloud backup that takes days to get established via slow upload doesn’t fit that bill. Nor does offering something they know will hammer many customers’ monthly data caps. MacOS doesn’t prevent third-party app installations, and many common programs aren’t available via the Mac App Store. Doing what you want would be a miserable experience for a lot of customers, and as such wouldn’t be serving them “the best they can.”
The storage on my iPhone and my MacBook are both the same: 128Gb. And iPads now go up to 2,000Gb.
Why would it take longer to back that up from a MacBook?
... Days? Are you still running dial up at 14Kbs?
Once again, you're not paying attention. Because iOS/iPadOS apps all must come through the app store, Apple is able to create iCloud backups for those devices that only store crucial user-created data. The operating system and apps are not uploaded to iCloud as part of your backup, and so don't have to go through your upload-speed-throttled internet connection, and won't use any of your monthly data allowance. If you have to completely restore your iPhone or iPad from an iCloud backup, it will download a fresh copy of the operating system from Apple, then load your user data and settings, then re-download and install your apps from the app store, bypassing the apps you haven't used in a while, only reinstalling those when you try to use one.
Your Mac is almost guaranteed to have applications on it that did not come through the Mac App Store. So an iCloud backup of a Mac could not provide the user with a full restore from backup without first uploading a complete disk image of your Mac, which would take a very, very long time at <20Mbs, and would also very likely burn up many people's monthly data cap in the process.
Also, your 128GB MacBook disk is dinky. The cheapest MacBook Air currently starts at 256GB, and you can get a MacBook Pro with an 8TB SSD built in. Apple isn't going to make a Mac iCloud backup product that caters to your minuscule 128GB machine but regularly runs into roadblocks for customers who've shelled out for a higher-end MacBook Pro.
I'm not paying attention? LOL....
I'm the one who originally pointed that out!
But, neither do I over emphasize its importance. There is only one thing on a computer that, once lost, can never be recovered: data.
Hardware & software can always be replaced.
So, while it would be nice to have automatic backups of a laptop's software, it is not, in any way, as critical as backing up the data. To equate the two is simply a red herring....
(I also pointed out that iPads now come with up to 2Tb of storage -- and Apple has no problems backing them up automatically to iCloud. Obviously SSD size is no longer a factor)
Restoring your iPhone from a full backup kept on your Mac, restoring your iPhone from a selected backup in the cloud, and restoring your Mac from a full time machine disk image on a local drive all have one thing in common. The user initiated the process, waits a little while and at the end their machine is back right where they left off. That’s an Apple experience.
Restoring a Mac from a selected data backup in the cloud would require the user to Uniate the process, then go through a lot of headaches finding installation copies and user keys and manually reinstalling third-party apps. That’s not an Apple experience. Other services may help you do that, and that’s where Apple will leave it until they can satisfactorily deliver the first scenario to a cloud backup of a Mac. It’s really just that simple.
The only headache -- as I have pointed out -- would be the third party apps that the user may have side loaded.
But, there's a fix for that: Don't side load third party apps -- or accept ALL of the associated risks if you do.
If Apple is forced to allow iOS users to side load apps, according to you, they would have to stop the automatic iCloud backups that hundreds of millions depend on and instead leave them high, dry and screwed. THAT would not be an "Apple Experience" as you call it.
The problem here is you don’t want to see beyond your own personal use case. You seem to think if it’s good enough for you, it’s good enough for everyone.
Back in reality, Macs and MacOS were developed before the internet, when applications were purchased on and installed from physical media. A locked-down Apple App Store for macs was an impossibility. Because of that legacy, there has been no practical cut-off point where Apple could force all app developers to go through the Mac App Store. They have continually ratcheted down access, but putting that particular genie all the way back in the bottle would be a dicey business proposition at best.
When iOS and iPhones were developed, the “i” stood for internet, and they started from scratch under that paradigm, and a single iOS App Store made perfect sense.
So, no, Apple can’t just tell customers who have third-party apps on their Macs to go pound sand, or more precisely, they won’t, because they’re not morons.
And yes, if Apple is forced to allow side-loading of iPhone apps, it will play havoc with their iOS cloud backup process. That’s yet another reason the present iOS side-loading controversy is actually about consumers losing options rather than gaining them.
LOL... it is YOU who is arguing from your own personal set of limitations -- which others have pointed out are not limitations at all!
As for Apple telling people to "Go pound salt". Where did you come up with that? (No, don't tell me, I don't want to know).
And, by the way, because Apple offers a service such as an iCloud backup, you are under no obligation to use it if you don't think it fits your limitations. But there is no reason for Apple to not offer it because you prefer other options.
No big deal! (IF it is only used as a backup -- and if the user is promptly notified of the failure)
You're original data is still intact -- you just need to replace the hardware.
In the case of harddrives it is best to expect a failure rather than being surprised by one. That is why, if you have critical data it is best that it is backup in more than one spot.
In my machines, I have moved the original harddrive over to the backup slot and replaced it with an SSD that is not only newer and (hopefully) more reliable but a hell of a lot faster -- so my data is stored on the SSD and the backup is on the old harddrive. If the old harddrive dies I'll simply replace it with one of the ones I have laying around.
Years ago when I was a Cost Accountant we lost an entire year's worth of data because 3 backups of it were lost or destroyed. It showed me the value of data: Everything else on a computer can be repaired or replaced. But not the data. Once it's gone it's gone forever.
The Thinkpad I'm using right now has spots for 3 separate drives. This one is not used for critical data so I only have two of them used (the prime spot and one backup -- but if I move it over to use it for financial data I will add a third and run dual backups on it.
For Apple's laptops -- and especially for their iPads -- that is not an option. The iPads automatically backup to iCloud. I think Apple should initiate the same for their laptops. That is, in fact, an ideal way to backup a backup: If, say, my house burns down I my data would be backup off site and safe waiting to be restored once I replaced the house and the laptop.
A lot of big-name ISPs cap residential account upload speeds significantly below their advertised broadband download speeds. (One might imagine this is to prevent residential accounts from being used to host websites of any significant nature.) Likewise, many have overall monthly data transfer caps that would quickly be surpassed by the size of an initial computer hard drive’s backup. Worse, if a household has more than one notebook or desktop computer. Until these practices are no longer standard, offsite cloud backups aren’t a viable option for residential customers.
Offsite backups are not a viable option for SOME residential customers. Most though have harddrives in the 256-500Gb area where the initial backup can be done overnight and, like with iOS and Windows "file history", incremental backups are taken as needed.
Apple showed how that can and does work with iOS and iPadOS. I think they need to add that to MacOS. And, as MacOS is upgraded and folded more and more into Apple's modern ecosystem, I think they will.
The upload speed cap and total monthly data cap issues are common for major ISPs like AT&T, Comcast and many others. Those issues make a time machine-type backup to the cloud not viable for probably a majority of residential customers. An initial time machine backup to an onsite time capsule when connected via Ethernet is an overnight proposition. A speed-capped offsite initial backup would take considerably longer. The option mentioned by @dewme above where a company allows the user to ship in an HDD with a full initial backup is an interesting workaround, but it’s not something the average consumer will do. It also doesn’t help if the user needs a complete disk recovery and the offsite backup is larger than the user’s monthly data cap.
For iOS devices, the iCloud backups you’re referring to are not full backups. They’re partial backups of ‘the important stuff,’ part of a user’s data. They are not the full backups that are done when you back up your iOS devices to a Mac via iTunes or Finder.
Perhaps a cloud backup of “important stuff” from a user’s documents folder might be a reasonable compromise to avert complete disasters, but it’s not a full backup.
Until major ISPs regularly provide residential customers with unthrottled 2-way bandwidth and unlimited data, offsite cloud backups aren’t going to be a simple, viable option for most residential customers.
I have no data caps on my cable. That may be a regional thing -- like where you only have one to choose from. Here I bounce back and forth between Comcast and Verizon based on the best deal. Right now Comcast is offering 100Mbs with a 12 month contract for $40 while Verizon is offering 200Mbs without a contract for the same amount I'll be back on Verizon by the end of the month.
And, when I restore my iPhone I get everything back except stored passwords*.
I don't see why they couldn't do the same for MacOS. And, if your carrier imposes data caps then turn the backup off if you want.
* Although that may at least partially be because all apps came from Apple's App store.
Run a speed test. A dollar to a donut says your 100 Mbs plan does about 15 or 20 for upload speed.
You iPhone restoration experience is exactly because apps are reinstalled from the App Store and not recovered from your backup. MacOS isn’t going to work that way. As a result, a partial MacOS backup of user data with apps reinstalled rather than recovered from backup would result in a mess upon which Apple wouldn’t put its name.
I'm sure that upload speed is 15 or 20 Mbs. But that's fine. It's not a data cap.
And, Apple could backup and restore Macs to / from iCloud just as they do iOS and iPadOS. For those who like to bypass the App Store and side load their own -- well they'll have to do that again. Too bad. Next time use the App Store. It doesn't mean that Apple should not use all of their facilities to serve their customers the best they can.
It’s not Apple’s general practice to offer something that won’t “just work.” A Mac iCloud backup that takes days to get established via slow upload doesn’t fit that bill. Nor does offering something they know will hammer many customers’ monthly data caps. MacOS doesn’t prevent third-party app installations, and many common programs aren’t available via the Mac App Store. Doing what you want would be a miserable experience for a lot of customers, and as such wouldn’t be serving them “the best they can.”
The storage on my iPhone and my MacBook are both the same: 128Gb. And iPads now go up to 2,000Gb.
Why would it take longer to back that up from a MacBook?
... Days? Are you still running dial up at 14Kbs?
Once again, you're not paying attention. Because iOS/iPadOS apps all must come through the app store, Apple is able to create iCloud backups for those devices that only store crucial user-created data. The operating system and apps are not uploaded to iCloud as part of your backup, and so don't have to go through your upload-speed-throttled internet connection, and won't use any of your monthly data allowance. If you have to completely restore your iPhone or iPad from an iCloud backup, it will download a fresh copy of the operating system from Apple, then load your user data and settings, then re-download and install your apps from the app store, bypassing the apps you haven't used in a while, only reinstalling those when you try to use one.
Your Mac is almost guaranteed to have applications on it that did not come through the Mac App Store. So an iCloud backup of a Mac could not provide the user with a full restore from backup without first uploading a complete disk image of your Mac, which would take a very, very long time at <20Mbs, and would also very likely burn up many people's monthly data cap in the process.
Also, your 128GB MacBook disk is dinky. The cheapest MacBook Air currently starts at 256GB, and you can get a MacBook Pro with an 8TB SSD built in. Apple isn't going to make a Mac iCloud backup product that caters to your minuscule 128GB machine but regularly runs into roadblocks for customers who've shelled out for a higher-end MacBook Pro.
I'm not paying attention? LOL....
I'm the one who originally pointed that out!
But, neither do I over emphasize its importance. There is only one thing on a computer that, once lost, can never be recovered: data.
Hardware & software can always be replaced.
So, while it would be nice to have automatic backups of a laptop's software, it is not, in any way, as critical as backing up the data. To equate the two is simply a red herring....
(I also pointed out that iPads now come with up to 2Tb of storage -- and Apple has no problems backing them up automatically to iCloud. Obviously SSD size is no longer a factor)
Restoring your iPhone from a full backup kept on your Mac, restoring your iPhone from a selected backup in the cloud, and restoring your Mac from a full time machine disk image on a local drive all have one thing in common. The user initiated the process, waits a little while and at the end their machine is back right where they left off. That’s an Apple experience.
Restoring a Mac from a selected data backup in the cloud would require the user to Uniate the process, then go through a lot of headaches finding installation copies and user keys and manually reinstalling third-party apps. That’s not an Apple experience. Other services may help you do that, and that’s where Apple will leave it until they can satisfactorily deliver the first scenario to a cloud backup of a Mac. It’s really just that simple.
The only headache -- as I have pointed out -- would be the third party apps that the user may have side loaded.
But, there's a fix for that: Don't side load third party apps -- or accept ALL of the associated risks if you do.
If Apple is forced to allow iOS users to side load apps, according to you, they would have to stop the automatic iCloud backups that hundreds of millions depend on and instead leave them high, dry and screwed. THAT would not be an "Apple Experience" as you call it.
The problem here is you don’t want to see beyond your own personal use case. You seem to think if it’s good enough for you, it’s good enough for everyone.
Back in reality, Macs and MacOS were developed before the internet, when applications were purchased on and installed from physical media. A locked-down Apple App Store for macs was an impossibility. Because of that legacy, there has been no practical cut-off point where Apple could force all app developers to go through the Mac App Store. They have continually ratcheted down access, but putting that particular genie all the way back in the bottle would be a dicey business proposition at best.
When iOS and iPhones were developed, the “i” stood for internet, and they started from scratch under that paradigm, and a single iOS App Store made perfect sense.
So, no, Apple can’t just tell customers who have third-party apps on their Macs to go pound sand, or more precisely, they won’t, because they’re not morons.
And yes, if Apple is forced to allow side-loading of iPhone apps, it will play havoc with their iOS cloud backup process. That’s yet another reason the present iOS side-loading controversy is actually about consumers losing options rather than gaining them.
LOL... it is YOU who is arguing from your own personal set of limitations -- which others have pointed out are not limitations at all!
As for Apple telling people to "Go pound salt". Where did you come up with that? (No, don't tell me, I don't want to know).
And, by the way, because Apple offers a service such as an iCloud backup, you are under no obligation to use it if you don't think it fits your limitations. But there is no reason for Apple to not offer it because you prefer other options.
You can’t even pull quotes correctly from information right there in front of you, so it’s pretty evident that you still aren’t paying attention or bothering with reading comprehension and just responding to respond.
Comments
LOL... it is YOU who is arguing from your own personal set of limitations -- which others have pointed out are not limitations at all!