Apple sees rise in departures from Health, iCloud teams

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in General Discussion
Apple's teams working on iCloud, AI, and Health, are apparently seeing more employees departing the company, according to a report, with a lack of optimism and Apple's back-to-office strategy alluded to be reasons behind the staff shrinkage.




Three Apple teams have seen their headcounts go down recently, with there being an increase in the number of people leaving Apple in favor of fresh pastures. The exits include a few high-profile names from the Health and iCloud teams, which could potentially hurt development in each group.

According to the Bloomberg "Power On" newsletter, Mark Gurman reports Health AI research chief Emily Fox is leaving Apple for a position at a university later in 2021. Meanwhile, former Netflix platform engineer Ruslan Meshenberg has apparently left his role leading Apple's team working on cloud infrastructure in favor of Google.

Gurman offers a number of reasons for the departures, including how it is plausible that after onboarding an "atypically high number of engineers," an increased rate of employees quitting can be expected.

It is also theorized that Apple's push for employees to return to offices in October could be another reason for the exits. Apple management has been especially keen to bring back employees to offices, despite pleas from employees asking for a more flexible arrangement.

"We believe that in-person collaboration is essential to our culture and our future," said Apple SVP of retail and people Deirdre O'Brien in June. "If we take a moment to reflect on our unbelievable product launches this past year, the products and the launch execution were built upon the base of years of work that we did when we were all together in-person."

A third reason for the departures could be because employees are "less optimistic about their work." This includes Apple's Health team, which has apparently "struggled with its own internal issues," while users clamor for new Apple Watch sensors, such as for blood-sugar monitoring.

A lack of optimism was previously raised by Gurman, who reported teams working on the Apple TV being pessimistic about the company's living room strategy.

Read on AppleInsider
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 42
    KTRKTR Posts: 280member
    Maybe apple should offer to pay their rent for the next 12/24 months
  • Reply 2 of 42
    darkvaderdarkvader Posts: 1,146member
    Maybe they're tired of working for a company that claims to protect user privacy but instead wants to install spyware on users' devices.
    rcfaDAalsethkkqd1337mike54bluefire1Beatsxyzzy-xxxOferbyronlchemengin1
  • Reply 3 of 42
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    KTR said:
    Maybe apple should offer to pay their rent for the next 12/24 months
    Apple pays their rent: it’s called salary!

    You know, the money you get to pay for life’s necessities: food, housing, healthcare.

    Or do you think you get paid for life’s luxuries? 🤣
    napoleon_phoneaparttommikelepulseimagesdesignrmuthuk_vanalingamFidonet127radarthekatbeowulfschmidtmwhiteGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 4 of 42
    It could be exhaustion after putting in so much work during shutdown and in their eyes, seeing Apple fumble it’s priorities repeatedly.


    mike54
  • Reply 5 of 42
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,783member
    The headhunters are out. I doubt most of these people will miss a day of work. They're just jumping ship to companies that still listen to their employees. 
    dewmeseanjOferbyronlchemengin1
  • Reply 6 of 42
    rcfa said:
    KTR said:
    Maybe apple should offer to pay their rent for the next 12/24 months
    Apple pays their rent: it’s called salary!

    You know, the money you get to pay for life’s necessities: food, housing, healthcare.

    Or do you think you get paid for life’s luxuries? 🤣
    It's so sad that Americans have to pay for healthcare from their salaries :( 
    JaiOh81n2itivguyRayz2016fred1OferbyronlGraeme000fastasleepcaladanian
  • Reply 7 of 42
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,710member
    They are going to find out they had it best at Apple. A lot of regret in the future. 

    Unless they simple are getting paid more. at the new. gig. Then it may be worth it. 
    pulseimagesviclauyycBeats
  • Reply 8 of 42
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    Those people pessimistic about Apple’s future should leave, they would drag the company down with their attitude. 

    Visions don’t grow from pessimism.

    If visionaries leave, because internal bureaucracy blocks their progress and crushes their dreams, well THAT would be problem.

    And the entitled bunch who think they could work remotely while still cashing in on high Silicon Valley salaries: good riddance, entitled brats, draining Apple’s coffers. Employees exist to SERVE the company, not the other way around; that’s why people get paid, after all. If the company were there to serve the employees, like some seem to think, the company would need to get paid.

    Spoiled brats having an issue with SERVING and servitude, but yet wanting money and safety…
    …if you don’t want to serve, open your own business, and look how far you get without SERVING your customers.
    lkrupppulseimagesradarthekatGeorgeBMacpatchythepirate
  • Reply 9 of 42
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    rcfa said:
    KTR said:
    Maybe apple should offer to pay their rent for the next 12/24 months
    Apple pays their rent: it’s called salary!

    You know, the money you get to pay for life’s necessities: food, housing, healthcare.

    Or do you think you get paid for life’s luxuries? 🤣
    It's so sad that Americans have to pay for healthcare from their salaries :( 
    So where do you think the government gets its money from, off of trees? It’s TAXES. Either you pay for you healthcare with your salary or you pay for it with your taxes. There is NO free healthcare, never has been ,never will be. Somebody has to pay. Progressives want to redistribute wealth to pay for it, take from those who have wealth and give it to those who don’t. Either way, YOU pay for your healthcare one way or another. And I really don’t understand how hard that is to comprehend.
    rbelizemobirdpulseimagesdesignrFidonet127beowulfschmidtpatchythepirateOctoMonkey
  • Reply 10 of 42
    darkvader said:
    Maybe they're tired of working for a company that claims to protect user privacy but instead wants to install spyware on users' devices.
    That's great. They can easily get jobs at Google, Facebook, Instagram or Twitter because after all, we know they listen to their employees and let the employees make the work rules.

    The sense of entitlement in some you making comments similar to yours is typical of the naive and inexperienced who have a very limited range of vision. It doesn't extend beyond the length of your arm or so it would seem.
    radarthekatomasouGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 11 of 42
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,322moderator
    It could be exhaustion after putting in so much work during shutdown and in their eyes, seeing Apple fumble it’s priorities repeatedly.
    There's not much point in projecting completely random conjectures onto stories like this. Maybe they don't like the brand of coffee Apple puts in their coffee machines.

    People should know by now that Mark Gurman is always trying to spin some negativity about Apple from the most absurdly vague information. He only named two people and is trying to setup some kind of mass exodus narrative. Apple has over 100,000 employees, their new HQ capacity is 16,000. Anything under a hundred employees is a fart in the wind.

    They only hired the engineer Ruslan last year:

    https://www.macobserver.com/news/apple-hires-ruslan-meshenberg/

    He was an infrastructure engineer and possibly worked on their cloud services and Apple TV. If there needed to be improvements to their infrastructure, he probably made them.

    There's an article here from March about Emily Fox moving to a new position:

    https://statistics.stanford.edu/news/emily-fox-will-be-statistics-newest-professor

    Years ago people like Mark Gurman had insider info on things that were actually worth reading. Since so many sources are dried up, they need to sell subscriptions to something so they've moved into the world of fiction where they sell downbeat narratives. Everybody has to make a buck but always keep in mind how people are making it.
    n2itivguyradarthekatbyronl
  • Reply 12 of 42
     Gurman offers a number of reasons for the departures…” Umm, no. He offers no reasons, just conjecture. 
    dewmeArchStantonn2itivguyigorskyomasoubyronl
  • Reply 13 of 42
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,362member
    If employees at Apple (or any other company) are not happy with what they are doing and have a hard time dragging themselves out of bed to take on the daily grind - they should absolutely move on to something they think is more to their liking. This is a 100% positive scenario for both the employee and the employer. I don't know why anyone would view this as anything other than a win-win situation. 

    Let's not turn this into a soap opera, this is just what happens when we are living in a strong economy with high demand for certain people with certain skills. If we were in a deep recession and big tech companies were slashing and burning through their workforce with mass layoffs we'd be seeing the other side of the pendulum swing. Employees would be keeping their heads down, cranking out the work, and sucking up their grievances to make sure they can still make their mortgage payments.

    You can invent or attach all kinds of your own rationale or forced narratives to these cyclical swings, but you're just making stuff up and playing silly games with yourself as the only interested party. Nothing to see here, other than the pendulum swinging widely in favor of certain people with certain marketable skills playing their cards for maximum gain. Let's hope it lasts.
    ArchStantonradarthekatigorskymwhitebyronlJWSCOctoMonkey
  • Reply 14 of 42
    I've worked for 3 companies in my life, the first being Apple. I can tell you this IME, a clear out of deadwood is usually good for the company and usually for the deadwood themselves. Sometimes a change of venue/scenery is exactly what someone needs (I did in late 89 when still at Apple). And sometimes new blood is exactly what the company needs. This is true for Apple, Google and thousands of other companies. And as a worker, if you're not happy at work? Your work will suffer, other elements of your life invariably suffer too. Change it up. We humans are creatures of habit (habit is comfort) but one would be surprised what new (often better) things are in store if you take a deep breath and step away from the habit. 


    Is that the case here or is this a departure by employees unhappy with WFH coming to an end or direction of their department's product dev? First, this is nothing but a story akin to 'Apple to release big screen Tv!' or 'Apple to announce M series MB pro series at WWDC'. Never assume something like this is true. These stories are too manipulated by those with an ulterior motive. But if Apple has seen greater than normal departures for one or the other reason, both the company and the worker should see it as a chance for something better. 

     
    edited August 2021 radarthekatbeowulfschmidtigorskyGeorgeBMacJWSCStrangeDays
  • Reply 15 of 42
    dewme said:
    If employees at Apple (or any other company) are not happy with what they are doing and have a hard time dragging themselves out of bed to take on the daily grind - they should absolutely move on to something they think is more to their liking. This is a 100% positive scenario for both the employee and the employer. I don't know why anyone would view this as anything other than a win-win situation. 

    Let's not turn this into a soap opera, this is just what happens when we are living in a strong economy with high demand for certain people with certain skills. If we were in a deep recession and big tech companies were slashing and burning through their workforce with mass layoffs we'd be seeing the other side of the pendulum swing. Employees would be keeping their heads down, cranking out the work, and sucking up their grievances to make sure they can still make their mortgage payments.

    You can invent or attach all kinds of your own rationale or forced narratives to these cyclical swings, but you're just making stuff up and playing silly games with yourself as the only interested party. Nothing to see here, other than the pendulum swinging widely in favor of certain people with certain marketable skills playing their cards for maximum gain. Let's hope it lasts.
    DewMe you beat me to the punch on the same point/belief. Didn't mean to plagiarize ya :-) 
    igorsky
  • Reply 16 of 42
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    “We don’t wanna go back to work”

    GTFO then.
    Dovalradarthekatigorsky
  • Reply 17 of 42
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,727member
    lkrupp said:
    rcfa said:
    KTR said:
    Maybe apple should offer to pay their rent for the next 12/24 months
    Apple pays their rent: it’s called salary!

    You know, the money you get to pay for life’s necessities: food, housing, healthcare.

    Or do you think you get paid for life’s luxuries? 🤣
    It's so sad that Americans have to pay for healthcare from their salaries :( 
    So where do you think the government gets its money from, off of trees? It’s TAXES. Either you pay for you healthcare with your salary or you pay for it with your taxes. There is NO free healthcare, never has been ,never will be. Somebody has to pay. Progressives want to redistribute wealth to pay for it, take from those who have wealth and give it to those who don’t. Either way, YOU pay for your healthcare one way or another. And I really don’t understand how hard that is to comprehend.
    And I really don't understand how hard it is to comprehend that a health care system which can plan and buy medicine, equipment, etc in mass quantities (rather than on a case by case basis), as well as not adding a profit margin to every good and service, is FAR more affordable for the average person.  Not to mention the incentives in a for-profit system to find ways to deny people coverage.  But I understand that investors in private healthcare companies would never allow that kind of change to happen.
    OferGeorgeBMacavon b7caladanian
  • Reply 18 of 42
    DovalDoval Posts: 40member
    Let the snowflakes leave. I think there are literally millions all over the world want their spots. Gurman is a mouth piece for the snow flakes
  • Reply 19 of 42
    DovalDoval Posts: 40member
    I think Apple has literally been way to nice to these idiots. If they worked in Banking or Wall streets, they all would have been tossed into the ocean by now.
    igorsky
  • Reply 20 of 42
    foljsfoljs Posts: 390member
    rcfa said:
    KTR said:
    Maybe apple should offer to pay their rent for the next 12/24 months
    Apple pays their rent: it’s called salary!

    You know, the money you get to pay for life’s necessities: food, housing, healthcare.

    Or do you think you get paid for life’s luxuries? 🤣
    No, but he does think that the market can pay better, and that those employees can easily find remote work elsewhere and save on Silicon Valley rent prices (so keep even more of the money).

    Unlike many other sectors, developers are in high demand, and there are way more options than Apple out there. In fact, Apple has historically been stingy with salaries, and mainly attracts people because of their "alternative-ness" and the idea of working with such a mass impact. But they can get to other FAANG companies for that, or work in some startup and get better salaries (not to mention in finance companies).
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