Microsoft to hike 'Microsoft 365' pricing in 2022 citing 'increased value'

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,642member
    It’s a shame Apple hasn’t taken over. Microsoft is garbage.
  • Reply 22 of 38
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,434member
    6502 said:
    MplsP said:
    KBuffett said:
    There is no reputable competitor to Excel in the enterprise field.

    As for outlook, for something as simple as an email client, it trounces competitors. Apple’s iOS Mail is toy in comparison.
    Counterpoint: Outlook is a bloated POS that is anything but easy to use and overkill for normals. No wonder Windows enterprise IT guys love it. 
    I’m forced to use Outlook. It sucks. Apple Mail isn’t perfect, either, but it’s far better than Outlook for email.

    Office 365 Apps suck, too. Several of my partners will routinely use Google docs simply because they’re better and easier to use. And don’t even get me started on Teams…

    The reason Microsoft continues its dominance is because it’s a virtual monopoly in the business market, not because it’s a quality product.
    Good luck in setting up a meeting and reserving a conference room in Apple Mail. Your partners don't sound too tech savvy, perhaps they should try TextEdit or
    Notepad? Office 365 is tremendously powerful and productive, if you're will to spend just a few minutes learning how to use it (like most things in life).
    Well, my partners are tech savvy enough to use Google docs for everything they need. From their perspective, google docs is easy to use and works. Microsoft is confusing, doesn't work as well and actually lacks features compared to other options.

    I've spent more than a few minutes trying to figure out the mess that is Office365. And even more minutes trying to fix problems that it causes.


    jony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 38
    Yes, the added value in things like https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/08/23/38-million-records-left-exposed-on-public-databases-thanks-to-weak-microsoft-power-app-defaults sure makes it difficult to say no to a price increase!
    cgWerksjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 38
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,946member
    6502 said:
    kimberly said:
    Really just a bloated fur ball that 95% of us make use of 5% of the features.
    Except we all use a different 5%. I wrote my thesis in word taking full advantage of figure/caption links, auto table of contents, indexing, styles, references, etc... I use Excel daily for data analysis. It really is a fantastic piece of productivity software with a reasonable price.

    Having authored some standards docs I have to agree that Word definitely has the technical chops for doing that kind of development in a working group environment. There are still some things about Word that annoy the heck out of me. If I'm just doing a simple couple page document with embedded images I still find Pages easier to use. I suspect that I could do a lot more with Pages if I took the time to delve into its feature set more deeply. If I just need a text file I use Textastic on the Mac/iPad or NotePad++ on Windows. I've run NotePad++ on the Mac using WINE, and it actually works quite well but I'd rather stick with native apps.

    I have nothing negative to say about Excel. It is probably the best productivity tool ever developed. Of course it rose on the shoulders of other fine spreadsheet programs that came before it. The entire spreadsheet/worksheet model is so amazingly perfect. The fact that it's lasted for many decades with no need for major modifications to the underlying model says a lot about how well they nailed the concept right out of the gate. I've played around with Numbers enough to know that it too is very capable, at least for the simple to intermediate level stuff I need it for. I tried to redo one of my larger and more complex Excel worksheets in Numbers, and I was able to get it working with no major issues. There are some differences, especially in the UI, function names, and syntax, but nothing that blocked me. It's still a spreadsheet and still works pretty much like every spreadsheet program that I've ever used works, which for me goes back to Lotus 1-2-3 and SuperCalc 4.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 38
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,686member
    crowley said:
    KBuffett said:
    There is no reputable competitor to Excel in the enterprise field.

    As for outlook, for something as simple as an email client, it trounces competitors. Apple’s iOS Mail is toy in comparison.
    Counterpoint: Outlook is a bloated POS that is anything but easy to use and overkill for normals. No wonder Windows enterprise IT guys love it. 
    Never had any problems with Outlook, it’s probably the least offensive app in the Office suite.  

    Maybe RSS feeds being in there is a bit much, but otherwise I don’t find it especially bloated.
    Outlook search is a mess. I have 10 years of company email well sorted by project, backed up to cloud IMAP and Mail search will find anything anywhere.
    Outlook used by others in the office needs a new database each year thanks to the large attachments we deal with and search will only finds emails in the selected folder. Not to mention it managers to die at the worst time.

    As powerful and as useful as MS products are that value is only really accessible with external support services. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 38
    How to add mathematical symbols in Pages document? Or Greek letters?
  • Reply 27 of 38
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,648member
    Microsoft has received the last of my money. I will never pay for Office. Ever. I am forced to use it by my employer, and I use Mail, Numbers, Pages and yes...textedit for my own uses. 

    Yes, YMMV. Buy what you want, like, or need. Nothing in Office represents any of that to me. 

    I laughed out loud a the "increased value" claim in the headline. Not to me.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 38
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,686member
    How to add mathematical symbols in Pages document? Or Greek letters?
    Character Picker in the Keyboard menu?.... same way you do in any app that supports Unicode. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 38
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,946member
    mattinoz said:
    crowley said:
    KBuffett said:
    There is no reputable competitor to Excel in the enterprise field.

    As for outlook, for something as simple as an email client, it trounces competitors. Apple’s iOS Mail is toy in comparison.
    Counterpoint: Outlook is a bloated POS that is anything but easy to use and overkill for normals. No wonder Windows enterprise IT guys love it. 
    Never had any problems with Outlook, it’s probably the least offensive app in the Office suite.  

    Maybe RSS feeds being in there is a bit much, but otherwise I don’t find it especially bloated.
    Outlook search is a mess. I have 10 years of company email well sorted by project, backed up to cloud IMAP and Mail search will find anything anywhere.
    Outlook used by others in the office needs a new database each year thanks to the large attachments we deal with and search will only finds emails in the selected folder. Not to mention it managers to die at the worst time.

    As powerful and as useful as MS products are that value is only really accessible with external support services. 
    I’m surprised your company allows you to hoard emails like that. The companies that I’ve worked for have very strict and heavily enforced data retention policies that prohibited retention of emails and certain documents (electronic and paper) beyond a certain time period, which was a lot less than 10 years. Yeah, I know why people want to keep an email history around, but if you work for a publicly traded company it’s very likely a violation of company policy. Perhaps the one year limit is imposed from your IT department.
    cgWerkswatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 38
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,179member
    Beats said:
    It’s a shame Apple hasn’t taken over. Microsoft is garbage.
    Have you consider that Apple hasn't been able to take over because is worst than MS "garbage"?
  • Reply 31 of 38
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,179member
    MplsP said:
    6502 said:
    MplsP said:
    KBuffett said:
    There is no reputable competitor to Excel in the enterprise field.

    As for outlook, for something as simple as an email client, it trounces competitors. Apple’s iOS Mail is toy in comparison.
    Counterpoint: Outlook is a bloated POS that is anything but easy to use and overkill for normals. No wonder Windows enterprise IT guys love it. 
    I’m forced to use Outlook. It sucks. Apple Mail isn’t perfect, either, but it’s far better than Outlook for email.

    Office 365 Apps suck, too. Several of my partners will routinely use Google docs simply because they’re better and easier to use. And don’t even get me started on Teams…

    The reason Microsoft continues its dominance is because it’s a virtual monopoly in the business market, not because it’s a quality product.
    Good luck in setting up a meeting and reserving a conference room in Apple Mail. Your partners don't sound too tech savvy, perhaps they should try TextEdit or
    Notepad? Office 365 is tremendously powerful and productive, if you're will to spend just a few minutes learning how to use it (like most things in life).
    Well, my partners are tech savvy enough to use Google docs for everything they need. From their perspective, google docs is easy to use and works. Microsoft is confusing, doesn't work as well and actually lacks features compared to other options.

    I've spent more than a few minutes trying to figure out the mess that is Office365. And even more minutes trying to fix problems that it causes.


    There are cases where Google Workplace is a better option than MS 365 and viceversa.  That doesn't mean MS doesn't work well or is confusing.  I see many cases where MS 365 is far better than Google Workplace or Apple suite of apps, specially when you consider the MS ecosystem (OneDrive, SharePoint, Dynamics, Teams, etc.).  

    If you think that MS 365 is a mess, maybe is not for you, and not that it's a bad service.  If you ask me, Apple is worst, specially when you compare iCloud services to MS 365.
  • Reply 32 of 38
    I switched from the Apple Mail client to Microsoft’s Outlook client on my iOS devices. It’s a better email client than Apple’s Mail is. 

    Regarding M365 products, my employer is heading down that path, so there will be challenges during the migration process. And in most enterprise environments, where the bulk of computers run Windows, there is no possible way that they would ever consider switching to a non-Microsoft product for office suite apps. Sure, Open Office exists, as do things like Google Docs, but the familiarity with Microsoft products makes it very hard to an enterprise to make the change. 

    I seriously doubt that the majority of Excel users do anything with Excel that any Apple, Google, or Open Office spreadsheet cannot accommodate, but Excel still dominates in the enterprise space, and it works, so the “don’t fix what isn’t broken” mindset applies. 

    Same things can be said for Word, Powerpoint, Outlook (client or OWA).  Beyond those (and maybe One Note), the rest of the MS Office suite is not as widely used, which Microsoft knows, so they are essentially ‘included’ in the suite, and there’s no incentive to replace those lesser-used apps with a non-MS app. 
    cgWerks
  • Reply 33 of 38
     Which program can be used to create this web article? M365? Pages? Open Office? 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler%E2%80%93DeWitt_equation
  • Reply 34 of 38
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,946member
     Which program can be used to create this web article? M365? Pages? Open Office? 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler%E2%80%93DeWitt_equation

    I'd imagine that Word, Pages, and LibreOffice Writer can all produce such a document with embedded equations using either their built-in support for LaTeX or using a free plug-in. None of these are WYSIWYG, or do actual evaluation of the entered formulas, like Mathcad does, but they do allow you to create the mathematical formulas using LateX markup syntax.

    jony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 38
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,111member
     Which program can be used to create this web article? M365? Pages? Open Office? 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler%E2%80%93DeWitt_equation
    Probably all of them; was easy enough in Pages, and I don't really know LaTeX that well:


    jony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 38
    dewme said:
     Which program can be used to create this web article? M365? Pages? Open Office? 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler%E2%80%93DeWitt_equation

    I'd imagine that Word, Pages, and LibreOffice Writer can all produce such a document with embedded equations using either their built-in support for LaTeX or using a free plug-in. None of these are WYSIWYG, or do actual evaluation of the entered formulas, like Mathcad does, but they do allow you to create the mathematical formulas using LateX markup syntax.

    Which program can create this web page faster? How much faster?
  • Reply 37 of 38
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,111member
    dewme said:
     Which program can be used to create this web article? M365? Pages? Open Office? 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler%E2%80%93DeWitt_equation

    I'd imagine that Word, Pages, and LibreOffice Writer can all produce such a document with embedded equations using either their built-in support for LaTeX or using a free plug-in. None of these are WYSIWYG, or do actual evaluation of the entered formulas, like Mathcad does, but they do allow you to create the mathematical formulas using LateX markup syntax.

    Which program can create this web page faster? How much faster?
    None of those programs are HTML editors or web design applications.
    cgWerkswatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 38
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,749member
    danvm said:
    Beats said:
    It’s a shame Apple hasn’t taken over. Microsoft is garbage.
    Have you consider that Apple hasn't been able to take over because is worst than MS "garbage"?
    Generally not. The 'big apps' that become industry standards often don't do so because they are the best. They do so because they get adopted by some 'influencer' (which in this case is big companies), and then others use them because, look, xyz are using it, etc. Then, eventually, those apps develop certain features which might keep them in that spot, and if not that, it ends up just being a compatibility argument.

    I wouldn't say some of the core Office apps are garbage, but they aren't necessarily the best for a lot of situations on which they are almost forced. It is similar in many other industries, like CAD/BIM (is AutoCAD/Revit the best?). I still remember the horror of having to use Lotus Notes for email during my Fortune 100 days. And, I remember consulting (a few years prior) to a SMB that was convinced they needed Lotus Notes because many of the big companies were using it.

    danvm said:
    If you ask me, Apple is worst, specially when you compare iCloud services to MS 365.
    Yeah, iCloud may well be Apple's weakest point. It kind of amazes me that it is *still* missing so many features, or has various issues, even though billions of people are using it. I'm assuming Apple uses it internally, right?

    rbnetengr said:
    I switched from the Apple Mail client to Microsoft’s Outlook client on my iOS devices. It’s a better email client than Apple’s Mail is. 

    Regarding M365 products, my employer is heading down that path, so there will be challenges during the migration process. And in most enterprise environments, where the bulk of computers run Windows, there is no possible way that they would ever consider switching to a non-Microsoft product for office suite apps. Sure, Open Office exists, as do things like Google Docs, but the familiarity with Microsoft products makes it very hard to an enterprise to make the change. 

    I seriously doubt that the majority of Excel users do anything with Excel that any Apple, Google, or Open Office spreadsheet cannot accommodate, but Excel still dominates in the enterprise space, and it works, so the “don’t fix what isn’t broken” mindset applies. 

    Same things can be said for Word, Powerpoint, Outlook (client or OWA).  Beyond those (and maybe One Note), the rest of the MS Office suite is not as widely used, which Microsoft knows, so they are essentially ‘included’ in the suite, and there’s no incentive to replace those lesser-used apps with a non-MS app. 
    I don't know about specific features, but as bad as Apple's Mail is, I still think I'd prefer it by far over Outlook. But, Apple's Mail is also surprisingly bad. It used to be great back when it came from Claris Emailer. Then, it kind of died around mid 2000s if memory serves. Even the iOS version is pretty bad (Google, not known for UIs, has done a better job with their Gmail app).

    I don't know what Apple's problem is (in that regard). The argument we here is often something along the lines that the 1 developer working on it part-time can't do any better. If that is indeed the case, the CEO should be fired! There's no good excuse for that.

    Most of the rest I agree with. Windows based firms are probably going to stick with Office. And, I'm not sure there are even a lot better packages, let alone suites, on Windows. And, yeah, Excel is pretty good... it's Word, Powerpoint, Outlook, Access, etc. that are easily replaced (and with better options, IMO).

     Which program can be used to create this web article? M365? Pages? Open Office? 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler%E2%80%93DeWitt_equation
    Edge? Chrome? FireFox? Brave?
    (That probably wasn't a great example.)

    As for other web pages, none of the above. Anyone creating a web page with an office suite should be .... (well, I can't think of anything nice to say!)
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