Apple, Intel join lawsuit against Trump-era tariffs on Chinese goods

Posted:
in iPhone edited August 2021
Apple, Intel, and Pfizer have joined 3,700 other US firms in a lawsuit against tariffs imposed on $300 billion worth of Chinese goods during the Trump administration.

Tim Cook (left) argued against the US imposing tariffs
Tim Cook (left) argued against the US imposing tariffs


Tariffs on products imported from China -- including Mac mini and HomePods -- were imposed during the previous administration, despite Apple's lobbying. While certain proposed further tariffs that would affect the iPhone were delayed, a lawsuit was launched against them all in 2020.

According to Jurist, the suit was begun by HMTX Industries and was specifically concerned with what were termed List 3 tariffs, including selected electronic devices. Subsequently, it was joined by Ford, Tesla, and Walgreens, plus it expanded to further cover the List 4 tariffs.

In February 2021, the Court of International Trade, consolidated this and similar cases into one suit, which in total represents over 3,700 US businesses. Now Apple, Intel, and Pfizer have reportedly joined the suit.

Products on the tariff lists were, or were due to be, subject to an increased import feel, meaning that it became more expensive for US firms to source items from China.

The case argues that the Trade Act Section 301 legal grounds for tariffs based on IP theft and technology transfer, only enabled Lists 1 and 2. The suit maintains that the subsequent lists do not have any justification under the Trade Act.

The case, "In re Section 301 Cases v. United States," is before the three-judge panel of Judges Mark Barnett, Claire Kelly, and Jennifer Choe-Groves.

Apple was due to be most affected by List 4, which would have covered iPhones, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro. However, currently, neither List 3 nor 4 are in place. The Court of International Trade blocked the Biden administration from finalizing the lists in July 2021.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 
    elijahgibillthe1maximusviclauyycwilliamlondon
  • Reply 2 of 21
    These tariffs were put into place to bring production and jobs back into the US. These companies get greedy for pennies, but yet will spends millions on lawyers. 

    anantksundaram said:
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 
    I totally agree with this. Make it so that importing foreign goods would be so absurd that building production plants here would be the best course of action.  Personally, I’d rather pay a few bucks more for an American made product. 
    edited August 2021 williamlondon
  • Reply 3 of 21
    Interesting, how the political makeup of the AppleInsider readership varies so greatly from that at MacRumors or definitely Ars Technica, the latter of which has become a shill for the Progressive/Democrat/Totalitarian propaganda apparatus.

    I do agree with the previous commenters that the strategic goals behind encouraging the on-shoring of high tech production outweigh the consumer’s interest in currently less expensive products. Will we regret the cheap t-shirts and $25 Bluetooth headsets, when China imposes a stranglehold on us, because we don’t do their bidding and they can withhold more important more necessary products, because we can’t make them ourselves?
    williamlondon
  • Reply 4 of 21
    These tariffs were put into place to bring production and jobs back into the US. These companies get greedy for pennies, but yet will spends millions on lawyers. 

    anantksundaram said:
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 
    I totally agree with this. Make it so that importing foreign goods would be so absurd that building production plants here would be the best course of action.  Personally, I’d rather pay a few bucks more for an American made product. 
    Same here…..these profitable US companies are greedy pretending to be sustainable but look at where their products are made and who made them?
    bring back manufacturing here and i will be willing to pay more
    williamlondon
  • Reply 5 of 21
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 

    The "COVID damage" was caused by our inept response.   We focused on the wrong things, crashed the economy and killed 600,000+ people while China suffered none of that.   None.  Because they did the right things.   But go ahead,   Blame China if it supports your ideology.

    As for tariffs...  No thanks!  As an American I don't want to pay more for my goods in order to enrich a few rich guys.
    tjwolf
  • Reply 6 of 21
    I would say the US/world consumer is cheaper and not willing to pay more. 

    I doubt if any company can make a Bluetooth headset for under $50 inside US or EU and make a profit. The part manufacturer, casting, modelling and logistics companies are just not here anymore. Even if they are still here, their cost is a lot higher compared to China. 
  • Reply 7 of 21
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    These tariffs were put into place to bring production and jobs back into the US. These companies get greedy for pennies, but yet will spends millions on lawyers. 

    anantksundaram said:
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 
    I totally agree with this. Make it so that importing foreign goods would be so absurd that building production plants here would be the best course of action.  Personally, I’d rather pay a few bucks more for an American made product. 

    Tariffs?   LOL....
    We tried that back in the 70's and 80's when our major industries were being gutted by foreign competition.  It didn't work then and didn't work this time either,..

    It amazes me how a nation that prides itself on being the best at capitalist competition is so terrified of a little competition.
    The answer, when you are being out-competed, is not to try to tear down the competition but to get better at competing.
    tjwolflam92103roundaboutnowjony0
  • Reply 8 of 21
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Kuyangkoh said:
    These tariffs were put into place to bring production and jobs back into the US. These companies get greedy for pennies, but yet will spends millions on lawyers. 

    anantksundaram said:
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 
    I totally agree with this. Make it so that importing foreign goods would be so absurd that building production plants here would be the best course of action.  Personally, I’d rather pay a few bucks more for an American made product. 
    Same here…..these profitable US companies are greedy pretending to be sustainable but look at where their products are made and who made them?
    bring back manufacturing here and i will be willing to pay more
    How do you tell a private, for-profit company to start making their product in a less efficient, higher cost nation?

    One way is to make that nation more efficient and lower cost.   It's probably the only way.

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 9 of 21
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    About time we ended this comical little game.

    EXCLUSIVE Huawei gets U.S. approvals to buy chips for its growing auto business

    Aug 25 (Reuters) - U.S. officials have approved license applications worth hundreds of millions of dollars for China's blacklisted telecom company Huawei to buy chips for its growing auto component business, two people familiar with the matter said.

    So now American manufacturers can sell their goods and Huawei can sell its goods.  
    Each is enabled to do what they were meant to do.
    That's how free market capitalism works. 
    ... It's a novel concept, but maybe we should give it a try?

    jony0
  • Reply 10 of 21
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 
     The proceeds are Americans subsidizing inefficiency of India, Vietnam, and others. 
    williamlondonGeorgeBMacjony0
  • Reply 11 of 21
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    These tariffs were put into place to bring production and jobs back into the US. These companies get greedy for pennies, but yet will spends millions on lawyers. 

    anantksundaram said:
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 
    I totally agree with this. Make it so that importing foreign goods would be so absurd that building production plants here would be the best course of action.  Personally, I’d rather pay a few bucks more for an American made product. 

    Tariffs?   LOL....
    We tried that back in the 70's and 80's when our major industries were being gutted by foreign competition.  It didn't work then and didn't work this time either,..

    It amazes me how a nation that prides itself on being the best at capitalist competition is so terrified of a little competition.
    The answer, when you are being out-competed, is not to try to tear down the competition but to get better at competing.
    George, look at the history of Chinese-applied tariffs before passing judgment. You make the Chinese appear to have been afraid of competition and they won't like your inference. China's were in the applied weighted average range of 30% up until 1993, and until 2000 still didn't dip under 10%.
    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHN/china/tariff-rates
    Still, the US rates have been well under China's until 2019.
    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/tariff-rates

    Surprisingly the Biden administration appears to have been ready to continue and expand on the specifically targeted Trump tariffs, until the courts blocked them. That's not what I had expected prior to his election. President Joe Biden in February this year even publicly called Chinese President Xi Jinping a “thug”. Who knew?
    edited August 2021
  • Reply 12 of 21
    gatorguy said:
    These tariffs were put into place to bring production and jobs back into the US. These companies get greedy for pennies, but yet will spends millions on lawyers. 

    anantksundaram said:
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 
    I totally agree with this. Make it so that importing foreign goods would be so absurd that building production plants here would be the best course of action.  Personally, I’d rather pay a few bucks more for an American made product. 

    Tariffs?   LOL....
    We tried that back in the 70's and 80's when our major industries were being gutted by foreign competition.  It didn't work then and didn't work this time either,..

    It amazes me how a nation that prides itself on being the best at capitalist competition is so terrified of a little competition.
    The answer, when you are being out-competed, is not to try to tear down the competition but to get better at competing.
    George, look at the history of Chinese-applied tariffs before passing judgment. You make the Chinese appear to have been afraid of competition and they won't like your inference. China's were in the applied weighted average range of 30% up until 1993, and until 2000 still didn't dip under 10%.
    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHN/china/tariff-rates
    Still, the US rates have been well under China's until 2019.
    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/tariff-rates

    Surprisingly the Biden administration appears to have been ready to continue and expand on the specifically targeted Trump tariffs, until the courts blocked them. That's not what I had expected prior to his election. President Joe Biden in February this year even publicly called Chinese President Xi Jinping a “thug”. Who knew?
    India applied more tariffs than China. Why it doesn't work in India?
    lam92103
  • Reply 13 of 21
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    gatorguy said:
    These tariffs were put into place to bring production and jobs back into the US. These companies get greedy for pennies, but yet will spends millions on lawyers. 

    anantksundaram said:
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 
    I totally agree with this. Make it so that importing foreign goods would be so absurd that building production plants here would be the best course of action.  Personally, I’d rather pay a few bucks more for an American made product. 

    Tariffs?   LOL....
    We tried that back in the 70's and 80's when our major industries were being gutted by foreign competition.  It didn't work then and didn't work this time either,..

    It amazes me how a nation that prides itself on being the best at capitalist competition is so terrified of a little competition.
    The answer, when you are being out-competed, is not to try to tear down the competition but to get better at competing.
    George, look at the history of Chinese-applied tariffs before passing judgment. You make the Chinese appear to have been afraid of competition and they won't like your inference. China's were in the applied weighted average range of 30% up until 1993, and until 2000 still didn't dip under 10%.
    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHN/china/tariff-rates
    Still, the US rates have been well under China's until 2019.
    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/tariff-rates

    Surprisingly the Biden administration appears to have been ready to continue and expand on the specifically targeted Trump tariffs, until the courts blocked them. That's not what I had expected prior to his election. President Joe Biden in February this year even publicly called Chinese President Xi Jinping a “thug”. Who knew?
    India applied more tariffs than China. Why it doesn't work in India?
    Ask George. He's the one dismissing tariffs as having any positive effect. "It didn't work in the eighties and won't work now" is his stated opinion.
    edited August 2021
  • Reply 14 of 21
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    These tariffs were put into place to bring production and jobs back into the US. These companies get greedy for pennies, but yet will spends millions on lawyers. 

    anantksundaram said:
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 
    I totally agree with this. Make it so that importing foreign goods would be so absurd that building production plants here would be the best course of action.  Personally, I’d rather pay a few bucks more for an American made product. 

    Tariffs?   LOL....
    We tried that back in the 70's and 80's when our major industries were being gutted by foreign competition.  It didn't work then and didn't work this time either,..

    It amazes me how a nation that prides itself on being the best at capitalist competition is so terrified of a little competition.
    The answer, when you are being out-competed, is not to try to tear down the competition but to get better at competing.
    George, look at the history of Chinese-applied tariffs before passing judgment. You make the Chinese appear to have been afraid of competition and they won't like your inference. China's were in the applied weighted average range of 30% up until 1993, and until 2000 still didn't dip under 10%.
    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHN/china/tariff-rates
    Still, the US rates have been well under China's until 2019.
    https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/tariff-rates

    Surprisingly the Biden administration appears to have been ready to continue and expand on the specifically targeted Trump tariffs, until the courts blocked them. That's not what I had expected prior to his election. President Joe Biden in February this year even publicly called Chinese President Xi Jinping a “thug”. Who knew?
    India applied more tariffs than China. Why it doesn't work in India?
    Ask George. He's the one dismissing tariffs as having any positive effect. "It didn't work in the eighties and won't work now" is his stated opinion.

    Like I said, they didn't work in the 70's and 80's when we tried to protect our basic industries (Steel, autos & electronics) and they didn't work for Trump -- they cost us jobs to point he had to pump billions into the farmers to make up for all damage his tariffs did -- along with the damage he did to other American industries.

    Tariffs only work if another country is dumping.
    They don't work to make an uncompetitive country competitive.  But, politicians get to sell them to the gullible and tell them they are taking care of them
    jony0
  • Reply 15 of 21
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,028member
    Kuyangkoh said:
    These tariffs were put into place to bring production and jobs back into the US. These companies get greedy for pennies, but yet will spends millions on lawyers. 

    anantksundaram said:
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 
    I totally agree with this. Make it so that importing foreign goods would be so absurd that building production plants here would be the best course of action.  Personally, I’d rather pay a few bucks more for an American made product. 
    Same here…..these profitable US companies are greedy pretending to be sustainable but look at where their products are made and who made them?
    bring back manufacturing here and i will be willing to pay more
    How do you tell a private, for-profit company to start making their product in a less efficient, higher cost nation?

    One way is to make that nation more efficient and lower cost.   It's probably the only way.
    So you want to collapse American wages?
  • Reply 16 of 21
    When Trump took office the average tariff on American goods entering China was 4x that of the average tariff on Chinese goods entering America.

    And of course China was stealing billions of dollars of US IP and ignoring copyrights etc.

    Apple et al want lower tariffs because while those drive American jobs overseas they allow the already amazingly rich tech sector moguls to get even richer. 

    Think of it as them bringing in scabs.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 17 of 21
    trinko said:
    When Trump took office the average tariff on American goods entering China was 4x that of the average tariff on Chinese goods entering America.

    And of course China was stealing billions of dollars of US IP and ignoring copyrights etc.

    Apple et al want lower tariffs because while those drive American jobs overseas they allow the already amazingly rich tech sector moguls to get even richer. 

    Think of it as them bringing in scabs.
    Actually Chinese companies that steal US IP could not sell to overseas. Because outside China, IP are being enforced. What hurts US is China learned from the western world to become industrialized. 
  • Reply 18 of 21
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    trinko said:
    When Trump took office the average tariff on American goods entering China was 4x that of the average tariff on Chinese goods entering America.

    And of course China was stealing billions of dollars of US IP and ignoring copyrights etc.

    Apple et al want lower tariffs because while those drive American jobs overseas they allow the already amazingly rich tech sector moguls to get even richer. 

    Think of it as them bringing in scabs.
    Actually Chinese companies that steal US IP could not sell to overseas. Because outside China, IP are being enforced. What hurts US is China learned from the western world to become industrialized. 

    It's strange though that while that "Chinese companies steal US IP" mantra is accepted without question, I have seen almost no actual examples of it and even those were very minor.  The truth is that if a company or country violates patents and copyrights there are remedies for that -- remedies that we never sought.

    I find it odd that the "They copied" cry was also used to make us feel better when Japan took over our basic industries 40-50 years ago.
    edited August 2021 jony0
  • Reply 19 of 21
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    crowley said:
    Kuyangkoh said:
    These tariffs were put into place to bring production and jobs back into the US. These companies get greedy for pennies, but yet will spends millions on lawyers. 

    anantksundaram said:
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 
    I totally agree with this. Make it so that importing foreign goods would be so absurd that building production plants here would be the best course of action.  Personally, I’d rather pay a few bucks more for an American made product. 
    Same here…..these profitable US companies are greedy pretending to be sustainable but look at where their products are made and who made them?
    bring back manufacturing here and i will be willing to pay more
    How do you tell a private, for-profit company to start making their product in a less efficient, higher cost nation?

    One way is to make that nation more efficient and lower cost.   It's probably the only way.
    So you want to collapse American wages?
    That's one way.
    Another is to do what the Japanese did when they shut down our basic industries:  modernize and become more efficient.  In steel we were running 100 year old mills and trying to compete with modern mills in Japan.  Japanese cars and electronics were better designed and built.

    But, American companies no longer invest in themselves.  Instead their profits (and borrowings) go to stock buybacks while our national infrastructure falls further and further behind from lack of investment by our government.

    But the stock market is doing well.  For now.

    jony0
  • Reply 20 of 21
    Frankly, if it was up to me, I’d double down on the opposite: say, quadruple the tariffs, leave it there for the next 25 years, and use the proceeds to help pay for all the COVID damage caused. It might, collaterally, help move some production here as well (and to China’s competitor countries). 

    That should be the price society imposes on each of us for our hankering after our cheap electronics and t-shirts. 

    The "COVID damage" was caused by our inept response. 
    You might want to look up some data, before making such patently absurd statements like the one above. 

    Oh, when comparing, do so with like countries, not iron-handed dictatorships or nothing-little islands in the middle of nowhere. 

    That said, ignorance - even the willful, obtuse kind - is not a crime, so knock yourself out. 
    williamlondon
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