Um....guys you got a problem. You wanted to stop groverism from spreading so you went to the U.N. and couldn't get it through the Security Council. Even though he is ready to destroy France, the U.S. has turned a deaf ear saying they no longer wish to act. Russia has also threatened a veto.
Heh, this war is not lost, we will battle you in all threads!
There are no Groverat infidels in this forum! His lap will burn by his mac!
How dare you be so intolerate of Groverat and his ideology. To say you would wreck all the message boards and threads in an attempt to stop Groverat. He hasn't even done anything for quite a few years now. Plus I heard that they might just send someone to inspect his computer... you really shouldn't do anything until his computer is inspected.
i love the way people use logic like "you were wrong to protest because we won."
yeah, i got sick of all the protests, too. especially when i got to walk past the u.s. consualte, with people screaming their heads off with "death to america" chants, etc. guess i am glad i "look Canadian." (hell, i couldn't get around downtown toronto for the past three saturdays because people just loved protesting every damn week. i REALLY loved the nimrods who protested the u.s. consulate on a SATURDAY... you know, when they're closed. Guess they thought the janitorial crew would relay the message to G.W. himself.). but i do not think all of the people who protested were "wrong." many were uninformed, others couldn't figure out what they were protesting to begin with... they were just pretty sure that the states are bad, so that's enough.
why can't more people see that both sides had some merit to them? like jon stewart said when showing people dancing on in baghdad after the fall (paraphrased here): "if you can't feel any good for how happy these people are, then you have lost your soul entirely to the left. and if you can't feel just a little bit bad that we had to resort to war to accomplish it, you've lost your soul entirely to the right. to everyone else, enjoy the show!"
hmmm... i think that needs to be my sginature for the foreseeable future.
Wow! I haven't derailed a thread this thoroughly this fast in a long time...
Yes I know very entertaining indeed.
Groverat, can I be your minister of cakes? trumptman has allready taken the position of minister of information and head of the youth brigades so I reckon I will handle all those lovely Yuropeen cakes when Victory arrives...
otherwise I can simply be your resident conspiratorial Zionist advisor
As for you New, watch it! you have started the mother of all thread wars.
i love the way people use logic like "you were wrong to protest because we won."
hehe I was talking about a bunch of idiots who were protesting to stop the war that has allready ended and who tried to fiddle the numbers of protestors by a factor of X10 to make their pathetic little rant seem like a grand scale march...
hehe I was talking about a bunch of idiots who were protesting to stop the war that has allready ended and who tried to fiddle the numbers of protestors by a factor of X10 to make their pathetic little rant seem like a grand scale march...
otherwise I pretty much agree with your points.
1) When did it end? Did I miss it?
2) Numbers are there to be fiddled with.
3) re: "pathetic little rants" vs "a grand scale march"...any man more right than his neighbor already constitutes a majority of one.
why can't more people see that both sides had some merit to them? like jon stewart said when showing people dancing on in baghdad after the fall (paraphrased here): "if you can't feel any good for how happy these people are, then you have lost your soul entirely to the left. and if you can't feel just a little bit bad that we had to resort to war to accomplish it, you've lost your soul entirely to the right. to everyone else, enjoy the show!"
This is where many slip up: those of us who support the war are MORE than a "little bit sad" it had to come to war. Don't confuse "support" with "glee". It doesn't mean we can't be happy and enjoy the success so far, but it is - in the minds and hearts of good people who aren't complete psychopaths - tempered with the knowledge of the deaths and destruction that have accompanied it.
This isn't lost on anyone I know who supports this action.
No one I know is - as Samantha Joanne Ollendale so tactlessly put it - sitting around, "high-fiving and drinking Coors and watching this like a cool video game".
So yes, to a point, Stewart's little admonition was correct. He just left out the part about those of us who straddle that line of support/regret. He's doing that classic thing of painting a certain segment in cliched, stereotypical terms.
Not every Leftie is a tree-hugging, war protesting socialist, right? Well, not every rightie is a heartless, warmongering cretin.
What do u mean Zehu Zeh is dead - its alive in my heart forever!
And on video as well.
More on topic
From private conversation with friends, I note that some non-Iraqi Arabs, while regretting the war took place, are privately acknowledging the positive aspect of Saddam's removal. And while some complain that they were ?robbed? of the liberation of Iraq (which they believed had to be accomplished by themselves) by the coalition, others, more reasonable, stoically observe that the fact it took a US/allied intervention for it to occur as another indication of the complete political incapability of the Arab countries today, and of the urgent need for serious rethinking.
Naturally, it'd be losing face for many to admit as much publically.
So in the meanwhile, the popular tall tale is now of Saddam having made a deal with the US, allowing him to flee, see here (note: this is a Saudi newpaper, unrelated to the Qatar-based TV network).
You've got the analogy wrong, although I'm perfectly happy with the way the extremes work out.
The extreme representatives of the left, as put forward by the right wing, are as follows:
tree huggers
maggot-infested hippies
PETA
NOW
peaceniks
socialists
The extreme representatives of the right, as put forward by ME (since no one else has the guts to do it, it seems), are as follows:
The Ku Klux Klan
Neo-Nazi Skinheads
The Michigan Militia
Timothy McVeigh
Take your pick.
Nope. The extreme representatives of the left are:
Fidel Castro
"conservative" Russians (Communist apologists)
All of North Korea
All of Vietnam
All of Communist China
Various dictators & warlords all over the world, in any country, under any proclaimed system
Earth First
ATLA
Red Army Faction & numerous disgraced terrorist organizations
Hammas
Islamic Jihad
Hezbollah
All of these folks stand for oppression and the redistribution of wealth through force in some measure. Many of these causes have prospered in the past because of appeasers and what they perceived to be weakness on the part of the US to do something about world affairs.
If we want to discuss PAST offenders, the opponents of individual liberty have a big head start on the conservative extreme right. Even if you include Nazi socialism in the Right Wing, Stalin, Mao and other communists have set a high standard for extremism.
I am having a very difficult in seeing China as extreme left. The system is more like the worst mix of liberal economy and autoritarian politics. Almost the opposite of the new (antiorthordox) left and boardering fascism.
The same goes with north Korea. The system and the dear leader is best described as "warped" beyond any political scale. Way beyond.
Hamas, islamic Jihad and Hezbollah are, their virtues and annoyances untold, hardly able to be placed on a left right scale. Or at least you could say that there is other parts of their ideology that is more important when talking about them.
I would not say that Hitlerism was rightwinged. His obsession with certaint ideas are much more important when describing it.
Nope. The extreme representatives of the left are:
Fidel Castro
"conservative" Russians (Communist apologists)
All of North Korea
All of Vietnam
All of Communist China
Various dictators & warlords all over the world, in any country, under any proclaimed system
Earth First
ATLA
Red Army Faction & numerous disgraced terrorist organizations
Hammas
Islamic Jihad
Hezbollah
All of these folks stand for oppression and the redistribution of wealth through force in some measure. Many of these causes have prospered in the past because of appeasers and what they perceived to be weakness on the part of the US to do something about world affairs.
If we want to discuss PAST offenders, the opponents of individual liberty have a big head start on the conservative extreme right. Even if you include Nazi socialism in the Right Wing, Stalin, Mao and other communists have set a high standard for extremism.
You might want to take a lesson, finboy. Just one.
Nope. The extreme representatives of the left are:
Fidel Castro
"conservative" Russians (Communist apologists)
All of North Korea
All of Vietnam
All of Communist China
Various dictators & warlords all over the world, in any country, under any proclaimed system
Earth First
ATLA
Red Army Faction & numerous disgraced terrorist organizations
Hammas
Islamic Jihad
Hezbollah
All of these folks stand for oppression and the redistribution of wealth through force in some measure. Many of these causes have prospered in the past because of appeasers and what they perceived to be weakness on the part of the US to do something about world affairs.
If we want to discuss PAST offenders, the opponents of individual liberty have a big head start on the conservative extreme right. Even if you include Nazi socialism in the Right Wing, Stalin, Mao and other communists have set a high standard for extremism.
This is why I don't consider myself left-wing. I consider myself a liberal. Both right and left are ultimately authoritarian. It's even hard to tell whether a particular system is left or right wing at the extremes. Is Nazism left or right? I'm not sure, but it's polar opposite to liberalism, as I see it.
This is why I don't consider myself left-wing. I consider myself a liberal. Both right and left are ultimately authoritarian. It's even hard to tell whether a particular system is left or right wing at the extremes. Is Nazism left or right? I'm not sure, but it's polar opposite to liberalism, as I see it.
Congrats, again, on your new tax deduction!
I guess I was in high school before I realized that the two ends of the continuum actually touched. The extreme right as populated by the Klan, etc. have a lot in common with their opponents on the extreme left.
That's why, too, I say LEFTIST rather than liberal. There are elements of liberalism in this country who advocate socialism, but for the most part those are the leaders. I've never been worried about ordinary folks getting it right -- this is America, we're all just trying to get by and get along. But when I see war protests and anti-capitalist protests organized by communists and covered by the media without mentioning this, it troubles me.
Oh, in the list I forgot to mention Asian Dawn (I read about them in Time magazine).
It's just that these people sort of ruthlessly disappeared, imprisoned, tortured or blew up democrats, socialists and communists. South Africa almost declared for the Nazis in the Second World War, for God's sake.
Comments
Originally posted by rashumon
[B]<feeling_discouraged> anyone interested in the point of my thread though?</feeling_discouraged>
No.
Bend over and prepare to take it....
Nick
(Senior officer in the Groverat Youth Brigade)
Originally posted by New
Heh, this war is not lost, we will battle you in all threads!
There are no Groverat infidels in this forum! His lap will burn by his mac!
How dare you be so intolerate of Groverat and his ideology. To say you would wreck all the message boards and threads in an attempt to stop Groverat. He hasn't even done anything for quite a few years now. Plus I heard that they might just send someone to inspect his computer... you really shouldn't do anything until his computer is inspected.
Nick
yeah, i got sick of all the protests, too. especially when i got to walk past the u.s. consualte, with people screaming their heads off with "death to america" chants, etc. guess i am glad i "look Canadian." (hell, i couldn't get around downtown toronto for the past three saturdays because people just loved protesting every damn week. i REALLY loved the nimrods who protested the u.s. consulate on a SATURDAY... you know, when they're closed. Guess they thought the janitorial crew would relay the message to G.W. himself.). but i do not think all of the people who protested were "wrong." many were uninformed, others couldn't figure out what they were protesting to begin with... they were just pretty sure that the states are bad, so that's enough.
why can't more people see that both sides had some merit to them? like jon stewart said when showing people dancing on in baghdad after the fall (paraphrased here): "if you can't feel any good for how happy these people are, then you have lost your soul entirely to the left. and if you can't feel just a little bit bad that we had to resort to war to accomplish it, you've lost your soul entirely to the right. to everyone else, enjoy the show!"
hmmm... i think that needs to be my sginature for the foreseeable future.
Originally posted by rashumon
Guys, lay off groverat - he's only Hitler...
<feeling_discouraged> anyone interested in the point of my thread though?</feeling_discouraged>
Wow! I haven't derailed a thread this thoroughly this fast in a long time...
Originally posted by der Kopf
Wow! I haven't derailed a thread this thoroughly this fast in a long time...
Yes I know
Groverat, can I be your minister of cakes? trumptman has allready taken the position of minister of information and head of the youth brigades so I reckon I will handle all those lovely Yuropeen cakes when Victory arrives...
otherwise I can simply be your resident conspiratorial Zionist advisor
As for you New, watch it! you have started the mother of all thread wars.
Originally posted by rok
i love the way people use logic like "you were wrong to protest because we won."
hehe I was talking about a bunch of idiots who were protesting to stop the war that has allready ended and who tried to fiddle the numbers of protestors by a factor of X10 to make their pathetic little rant seem like a grand scale march...
otherwise I pretty much agree with your points.
Originally posted by rashumon
hehe I was talking about a bunch of idiots who were protesting to stop the war that has allready ended and who tried to fiddle the numbers of protestors by a factor of X10 to make their pathetic little rant seem like a grand scale march...
otherwise I pretty much agree with your points.
1) When did it end? Did I miss it?
2) Numbers are there to be fiddled with.
3) re: "pathetic little rants" vs "a grand scale march"...any man more right than his neighbor already constitutes a majority of one.
Originally posted by rok
why can't more people see that both sides had some merit to them? like jon stewart said when showing people dancing on in baghdad after the fall (paraphrased here): "if you can't feel any good for how happy these people are, then you have lost your soul entirely to the left. and if you can't feel just a little bit bad that we had to resort to war to accomplish it, you've lost your soul entirely to the right. to everyone else, enjoy the show!"
This is where many slip up: those of us who support the war are MORE than a "little bit sad" it had to come to war. Don't confuse "support" with "glee". It doesn't mean we can't be happy and enjoy the success so far, but it is - in the minds and hearts of good people who aren't complete psychopaths - tempered with the knowledge of the deaths and destruction that have accompanied it.
This isn't lost on anyone I know who supports this action.
No one I know is - as Samantha Joanne Ollendale so tactlessly put it - sitting around, "high-fiving and drinking Coors and watching this like a cool video game".
So yes, to a point, Stewart's little admonition was correct. He just left out the part about those of us who straddle that line of support/regret. He's doing that classic thing of painting a certain segment in cliched, stereotypical terms.
Not every Leftie is a tree-hugging, war protesting socialist, right? Well, not every rightie is a heartless, warmongering cretin.
Not every Leftie is a tree-hugging, war protesting socialist, right? Well, not every rightie is a heartless, warmongering cretin.
You've got the analogy wrong, although I'm perfectly happy with the way the extremes work out.
The extreme representatives of the left, as put forward by the right wing, are as follows:
tree huggers
maggot-infested hippies
PETA
NOW
peaceniks
socialists
The extreme representatives of the right, as put forward by ME (since no one else has the guts to do it, it seems), are as follows:
The Ku Klux Klan
Neo-Nazi Skinheads
The Michigan Militia
Timothy McVeigh
Take your pick.
Originally posted by rashumon
Immanuel,
What do u mean Zehu Zeh is dead - its alive in my heart forever!
And on video as well.
More on topic
From private conversation with friends, I note that some non-Iraqi Arabs, while regretting the war took place, are privately acknowledging the positive aspect of Saddam's removal. And while some complain that they were ?robbed? of the liberation of Iraq (which they believed had to be accomplished by themselves) by the coalition, others, more reasonable, stoically observe that the fact it took a US/allied intervention for it to occur as another indication of the complete political incapability of the Arab countries today, and of the urgent need for serious rethinking.
Naturally, it'd be losing face for many to admit as much publically.
So in the meanwhile, the popular tall tale is now of Saddam having made a deal with the US, allowing him to flee, see here (note: this is a Saudi newpaper, unrelated to the Qatar-based TV network).
Originally posted by midwinter
You've got the analogy wrong, although I'm perfectly happy with the way the extremes work out.
The extreme representatives of the left, as put forward by the right wing, are as follows:
tree huggers
maggot-infested hippies
PETA
NOW
peaceniks
socialists
The extreme representatives of the right, as put forward by ME (since no one else has the guts to do it, it seems), are as follows:
The Ku Klux Klan
Neo-Nazi Skinheads
The Michigan Militia
Timothy McVeigh
Take your pick.
Nope. The extreme representatives of the left are:
Fidel Castro
"conservative" Russians (Communist apologists)
All of North Korea
All of Vietnam
All of Communist China
Various dictators & warlords all over the world, in any country, under any proclaimed system
Earth First
ATLA
Red Army Faction & numerous disgraced terrorist organizations
Hammas
Islamic Jihad
Hezbollah
All of these folks stand for oppression and the redistribution of wealth through force in some measure. Many of these causes have prospered in the past because of appeasers and what they perceived to be weakness on the part of the US to do something about world affairs.
If we want to discuss PAST offenders, the opponents of individual liberty have a big head start on the conservative extreme right. Even if you include Nazi socialism in the Right Wing, Stalin, Mao and other communists have set a high standard for extremism.
The same goes with north Korea. The system and the dear leader is best described as "warped" beyond any political scale. Way beyond.
I would not say that Hitlerism was rightwinged. His obsession with certaint ideas are much more important when describing it.
Originally posted by finboy
Nope. The extreme representatives of the left are:
Fidel Castro
"conservative" Russians (Communist apologists)
All of North Korea
All of Vietnam
All of Communist China
Various dictators & warlords all over the world, in any country, under any proclaimed system
Earth First
ATLA
Red Army Faction & numerous disgraced terrorist organizations
Hammas
Islamic Jihad
Hezbollah
All of these folks stand for oppression and the redistribution of wealth through force in some measure. Many of these causes have prospered in the past because of appeasers and what they perceived to be weakness on the part of the US to do something about world affairs.
If we want to discuss PAST offenders, the opponents of individual liberty have a big head start on the conservative extreme right. Even if you include Nazi socialism in the Right Wing, Stalin, Mao and other communists have set a high standard for extremism.
You might want to take a lesson, finboy. Just one.
In any case, as far as I can see there have been nothing but lies, lies, and more lies.
Originally posted by finboy
Nope. The extreme representatives of the left are:
Fidel Castro
"conservative" Russians (Communist apologists)
All of North Korea
All of Vietnam
All of Communist China
Various dictators & warlords all over the world, in any country, under any proclaimed system
Earth First
ATLA
Red Army Faction & numerous disgraced terrorist organizations
Hammas
Islamic Jihad
Hezbollah
All of these folks stand for oppression and the redistribution of wealth through force in some measure. Many of these causes have prospered in the past because of appeasers and what they perceived to be weakness on the part of the US to do something about world affairs.
If we want to discuss PAST offenders, the opponents of individual liberty have a big head start on the conservative extreme right. Even if you include Nazi socialism in the Right Wing, Stalin, Mao and other communists have set a high standard for extremism.
This is why I don't consider myself left-wing. I consider myself a liberal. Both right and left are ultimately authoritarian. It's even hard to tell whether a particular system is left or right wing at the extremes. Is Nazism left or right? I'm not sure, but it's polar opposite to liberalism, as I see it.
Originally posted by finboy
Nope. The extreme representatives of the left are:
Various dictators & warlords all over the world, in any country, under any proclaimed system
Eh?
Pinochet? Apartheid South Africa's leaders? Argentina's dictators? Franco?
Que?
Originally posted by BRussell
This is why I don't consider myself left-wing. I consider myself a liberal. Both right and left are ultimately authoritarian. It's even hard to tell whether a particular system is left or right wing at the extremes. Is Nazism left or right? I'm not sure, but it's polar opposite to liberalism, as I see it.
Congrats, again, on your new tax deduction!
I guess I was in high school before I realized that the two ends of the continuum actually touched. The extreme right as populated by the Klan, etc. have a lot in common with their opponents on the extreme left.
That's why, too, I say LEFTIST rather than liberal. There are elements of liberalism in this country who advocate socialism, but for the most part those are the leaders. I've never been worried about ordinary folks getting it right -- this is America, we're all just trying to get by and get along. But when I see war protests and anti-capitalist protests organized by communists and covered by the media without mentioning this, it troubles me.
Oh, in the list I forgot to mention Asian Dawn (I read about them in Time magazine).