Microsoft updates CPU requirements for Windows 11

AppleInsider · August 28, 2021 3:49AM

Microsoft on Friday announced a change to Windows 11 minimum operating requirements, though the loosened restrictions are not likely to impact compatibility -- or lack thereof -- with Mac.

The software giant detailed Windows 11 minimum system requirements in a blog post, specifically noting processors and baseline PCs that are compatible with the upcoming operating system.

As previously announced, Windows 11 requires a 1GHz or faster 64-bit CPU, 4GB of RAM, and 64GB of storage. Machines must also support UEFI secure boot, version 2.0 of the Trusted Platform Module (TPM) and include a graphics card compatible with DirectX 12.

Microsoft today added Intel Core X and Xeon W CPUs, as well as the Surface Studio 2's Core i7-7820HQ, to the list of Windows 11-compatible processors. The addition is a nod to users who, despite owning fairly modern hardware (Core X and Xeon W are 7th-generation Intel designs), were seemingly left out in the cold when the operating system was announced.

Microsoft clarified the situation to The Verge, saying it will only enforce installation restrictions when users attempt to move from Windows 10 to Windows 11 through the Windows Update mechanism. Users with older PCs that don't meet the company's recommendations can download an ISO of the operating system and install it manually, according to the report.

That said, Windows 11 is unlikely to work efficiently on Intel Macs because of Microsoft's TPM 2.0 requirement. While some Macs produced between 2016 and 2019 boast CPUs that incorporate TPM 2.0, Apple has not rolled out support for the security protocol.

There is currently a workaround that involves editing the names of certain system files before installation to bypass Windows 11's checks, but the process does not guarantee success.

Another route is PC virtualization through software like Parallels, which earlier in August promised to deliver full Windows 11 support for Mac when the operating system launches.

Read on AppleInsider

zimmermann · August 28, 2021 9:42AM

I run W11 beta on Parallels 17 on my MacBook Pro. Nice and easy.

dewme · August 28, 2021 12:15PM

zimmermann said:

I run W11 beta on Parallels 17 on my MacBook Pro. Nice and easy.

You have to be a little careful with Windows 11 beta versions and with Parallels.

The Windows 11 beta, at least the insider preview versions, will run on systems that do not meet the Windows 11 release version requirements. Yes, Microsoft tells you this upfront, that you’ll have to do a full reinstall of Windows 10 when the release version of Windows 11 is released. . How Microsoft will actually go about terminating or crippling the betas running on unsupported systems after Win 11 is released remains a mystery.

For people running unsupported versions in VMs it’s no big deal, just delete the disk image, but for installations on real hardware it’s a full clean reinstall of Windows 10. Fortunately for me, on my old machine that does not meet the TPM requirement and had Windows 11 beta pushed through Windows Update, I was able to back out of the preview program on the machine and do a full reinstall of Windows 10 Pro without losing my digital activation key.

Anecdotally, while I was running Windows 11 beta I saw absolutely nothing at all in Windows 11 that left me with an impression that Windows 11 was something I really needed to have on any of my Windows machines, including ones that have the required TPM support. I run Windows because there are some narrowly focused legacy apps and development tools that I use that are only available or functional with my use cases on Windows.

As far as Parallels is concerned, at least when it comes to ARM versions of Windows, Microsoft’s licensing of Windows on ARM is still not clear, at least the last time I checked. It’s conceivable, but hopefully unlikely, that Microsoft could slam Parallels with a licensing related lawsuit for running Windows ARM versions on M1 Macs. VMWare has taken a wait & see defensive posture on this but Parallels has thrown caution to the wind and barreled ahead, hoping for the best. We’ll see.

GeorgeBMac · August 28, 2021 2:05PM

dewme said:

zimmermann said:

I run W11 beta on Parallels 17 on my MacBook Pro. Nice and easy.

You have to be a little careful with Windows 11 beta versions and with Parallels.

The Windows 11 beta, at least the insider preview versions, will run on systems that do not meet the Windows 11 release version requirements. Yes, Microsoft tells you this upfront, that you’ll have to do a full reinstall of Windows 10 when the release version of Windows 11 is released. . How Microsoft will actually go about terminating or crippling the betas running on unsupported systems after Win 11 is released remains a mystery.

For people running unsupported versions in VMs it’s no big deal, just delete the disk image, but for installations on real hardware it’s a full clean reinstall of Windows 10. Fortunately for me, on my old machine that does not meet the TPM requirement and had Windows 11 beta pushed through Windows Update, I was able to back out of the preview program on the machine and do a full reinstall of Windows 10 Pro without losing my digital activation key.

Anecdotally, while I was running Windows 11 beta I saw absolutely nothing at all in Windows 11 that left me with an impression that Windows 11 was something I really needed to have on any of my Windows machines, including ones that have the required TPM support. I run Windows because there are some narrowly focused legacy apps and development tools that I use that are only available or functional with my use cases on Windows.

As far as Parallels is concerned, at least when it comes to ARM versions of Windows, Microsoft’s licensing of Windows on ARM is still not clear, at least the last time I checked. It’s conceivable, but hopefully unlikely, that Microsoft could slam Parallels with a licensing related lawsuit for running Windows ARM versions on M1 Macs. VMWare has taken a wait & see defensive posture on this but Parallels has thrown caution to the wind and barreled ahead, hoping for the best. We’ll see.

Good points.... It sounds like it's best to play with Windows 11 in a separate partition or drive (if you can).

And good point about Windows 11 offering little in the way of functional enhancements that would benefit the user. That's not to denigrate Windows 11 but to acknowledge that mainstream operating systems like Windows or MacOS have reached a state of maturity and any functional enhancements will be incremental. (Although I see MacOS expanding greatly as it builds tight integration into the iOS family).

But, I suspect that, at some point, it will come out that the main selling point of Windows 11 will be enhanced security that Windows 7,8 & 10 cannot match. Otherwise, if security was not a focus, Microsoft would not be taking such a hard line on TPM 2.0 -- that goes against their entire history of strong support for legacy systems. I think they must have some very compelling reasons for going that route.

libertyandfree · August 28, 2021 2:18PM

It’s got to be a very small universe of people that need to be running windows 11 on a Mac. Much less than 1%. I still need to use windows at work (Win10) and it’s frustrating how little MS Windows has improved over 15-20 years.

GeorgeBMac · August 28, 2021 2:25PM

AppleInsider said:

That said, Windows 11 is unlikely to work efficiently on Intel Macs because of Microsoft's TPM 2.0 requirement. While some Macs produced between 2016 and 2019 boast CPUs that incorporate TPM 2.0, Apple has not rolled out support for the security protocol.

Read on AppleInsider

I am confused by the term "efficiency" in relation to TPM? I thought that was a security tool and had little or nothing to do with efficiency or performance?

But, it is really interesting that the article said:
"Users with older PCs that don't meet the company's recommendations can download an ISO of the operating system and install it manually, according to the report."

That suggests that users of Intel Macs should be able to install Windows 11 via an ISO file -- which, as I remember, is how it is normally done anyway. From Apple Support on installing Windows under Bootcamp:

--------------------------------------

[You need] An external USB flash drive with a storage capacity of 16GB or more, unless you're using a Mac that doesn't need a flash drive to install Windows.

A 64-bit version of Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro on a disk image (ISO) or other installation media. If installing Windows on your Mac for the first time, this must be a full version of Windows, not an upgrade."

-----------------------------------------

So, Windows 11 CAN be installed on Intel Macs!?!?!?!

(This sounds like a job for Andrew to untangle!)

MacPro · August 28, 2021 2:49PM

GeorgeBMac said:

AppleInsider said:

That said, Windows 11 is unlikely to work efficiently on Intel Macs because of Microsoft's TPM 2.0 requirement. While some Macs produced between 2016 and 2019 boast CPUs that incorporate TPM 2.0, Apple has not rolled out support for the security protocol.

Read on AppleInsider

I am confused by the term "efficiency" in relation to TPM? I thought that was a security tool and had little or nothing to do with efficiency or performance?

But, it is really interesting that the article said:
"Users with older PCs that don't meet the company's recommendations can download an ISO of the operating system and install it manually, according to the report."

That suggests that users of Intel Macs should be able to install Windows 11 via an ISO file -- which, as I remember, is how it is normally done anyway. From Apple Support on installing Windows under Bootcamp:
--------------------------------------
[You need] An external USB flash drive with a storage capacity of 16GB or more, unless you're using a Mac that doesn't need a flash drive to install Windows.
A 64-bit version of Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro on a disk image (ISO) or other installation media. If installing Windows on your Mac for the first time, this must be a full version of Windows, not an upgrade."
-----------------------------------------

So, Windows 11 CAN be installed on Intel Macs!?!?!?!
(This sounds like a job for Andrew to untangle!)

I am traveling in Europe for the next two weeks so can't test this till I get home. Maybe someone else can? With Windows 10 Pro I cloned my a gaming PC desktop to an SSD over USBc and simply booted to the clone also via USBc on my iMac. Windows updated the required drivers and I was good to go, everything worked. I switch to a Dell keyboard and a Jellycomb wireless mouse on my Mac so as to keep things simple. Since then I updated the PC to Windows 11, without any problems. However, I have yet to try cloning the Windows 11 installation and try booting to that but I suspect it won't work without some mods. The Mac I use has the i9 and the upgraded ADM GPU.

bfranks · August 28, 2021 3:47PM

I’m running Windows 11 Pro ARM (Insider build) on my M1 MacBook Air with Parallels. It’s pretty fast and is usable, with Microsoft’s x86 emulation build into Windows for ARM I can run most apps.

Having said all that I only use Windows when there is no Mac equivalent for an app, this happens less and less these days. The ARM version of Windows is not currently available for retail, which means that running it on Parallels is just proof of concept.

Also Microsoft are just rolling out Windows 365 which gives access to Windows on a VM that you can configure yourself. By all the accounts I’ve heard it works well on iPads , Macs and even Chrome books.

I think running a local installation of Windows on a Mac has become less and less relevant in the last 10 years.

juanguapo · August 28, 2021 5:20PM

I don't run Windows anymore but it's my understanding that Macs do not have TPM modules, therefore, they cannot run it in Boot Camp but in virtualized environments (e.g., Paralles), it can be emulated.

Do I have this correct?

9secondkox2 · August 28, 2021 8:49PM

The times windows is actually needed these days is nearly 0.

Most developers realize that Mac users are a lucrative base and it’s just lazy now to not have apps that span operating systems and platforms.

Outside of very rare cases, the only time you need windows is if your in-house developer is old snd was last educated in their field 20 years ago and didn’t keep learning.

These “requirements” MS has introduced are to create an artificial divide between the Mac.

And that’s fine. The Mac is so much better and people know this already. MS is just hurting themselves.

I’ve had the privilege of working with two organizations that transitioned the entirety of their computing infrastructure to Mac OS, from accounting, to creative departments, to project management, to reception, to CRM.

If there must be a choice made, it will be Mac OS.

Windows is antiquated. Let it die already.

auxio · August 28, 2021 9:11PM

juanguapo said:

I don't run Windows anymore but it's my understanding that Macs do not have TPM modules, therefore, they cannot run it in Boot Camp but in virtualized environments (e.g., Paralles), it can be emulated.

Do I have this correct?

From what I've seen, most modern Intel CPUs actually have the TPM module built in. Which would mean that some Intel Macs have them, but whether or not the ability to access it is exposed by Apple's EFI is the big question.

As for emulation, yes, I've seen that VMWare has TPM emulation . Not sure about Parallels, but I'd assume so.

GeorgeBMac · August 28, 2021 9:35PM

9secondkox2 said:

The times windows is actually needed these days is nearly 0.

Most developers realize that Mac users are a lucrative base and it’s just lazy now to not have apps that span operating systems and platforms.

Outside of very rare cases, the only time you need windows is if your in-house developer is old snd was last educated in their field 20 years ago and didn’t keep learning.

These “requirements” MS has introduced are to create an artificial divide between the Mac.

And that’s fine. The Mac is so much better and people know this already. MS is just hurting themselves.

I’ve had the privilege of working with two organizations that transitioned the entirety of their computing infrastructure to Mac OS, from accounting, to creative departments, to project management, to reception, to CRM.

If there must be a choice made, it will be Mac OS.

Windows is antiquated. Let it die already.

That hasn't been my experience. At all.
Schools and businesses are not going to spend money developing for alternative platforms. Nor will they be bothered to support them.

GeorgeBMac · August 28, 2021 9:38PM

auxio said:

juanguapo said:

I don't run Windows anymore but it's my understanding that Macs do not have TPM modules, therefore, they cannot run it in Boot Camp but in virtualized environments (e.g., Paralles), it can be emulated.

Do I have this correct?

From what I've seen, most modern Intel CPUs actually have the TPM module built in. Which would mean that some Intel Macs have them, but whether or not the ability to access it is exposed by Apple's EFI is the big question.

As for emulation, yes, I've seen that VMWare has TPM emulation . Not sure about Parallels, but I'd assume so.

It's not a question. TPM is part of Intel's CPU's but Apple does not support it.

But, as discussed above, this article may show a way around that requirement.

dewme · August 28, 2021 10:52PM

9secondkox2 said:

The times windows is actually needed these days is nearly 0.

Most developers realize that Mac users are a lucrative base and it’s just lazy now to not have apps that span operating systems and platforms.

Outside of very rare cases, the only time you need windows is if your in-house developer is old snd was last educated in their field 20 years ago and didn’t keep learning.

These “requirements” MS has introduced are to create an artificial divide between the Mac.

And that’s fine. The Mac is so much better and people know this already. MS is just hurting themselves.

I’ve had the privilege of working with two organizations that transitioned the entirety of their computing infrastructure to Mac OS, from accounting, to creative departments, to project management, to reception, to CRM.

If there must be a choice made, it will be Mac OS.

Windows is antiquated. Let it die already.

Windows is still in very wide use in several industries and critical businesses. I’ve yet to encounter Macs being used in manufacturing, industrial automation, DCS systems, process control, food processing, oil & gas, automobile manufacturing, large scale brewing, pharmaceuticals, water and waste water treatment, power generation, communication networks, point of sale systems, package shipping and handling, just to name a tiny sample of places where Windows plays an active role every single day. I've worked directly with at least one company that makes wafer fab processing and testing machinery and they were firmly entrenched in Windows, as were a couple of big beer breweries that I spent time working with Windows based SCADA and HMI systems.

Seeing how Windows has a role to play in helping to bring the chips that power my Apple computers to market, keep beer in my local supermarket, and keep the water flowing in my house I’d say that it’s death would be nothing short of a catastrophic event for maintaining the quality of life as those of us in developed countries have come to rely on.

I don’t know where you live, but all of the things I mentioned above, without even getting into financial, banking, or commerce, aren’t exactly what I’d consider “antiquated.” I kinda like having electricity, running water, cold beer, cars, food, medicines, internet access, a shiny new Mac, flushing toilets, and being able to take a shower every day. Call me old fashioned.

crowley · August 29, 2021 12:51AM

9secondkox2 said:

The times windows is actually needed these days is nearly 0.

Wishful thinking; legacy Windows business applications abound, and new Windows business applications are being written every day.

elijahg · August 29, 2021 9:32AM

9secondkox2 said:

The times windows is actually needed these days is nearly 0.

Most developers realize that Mac users are a lucrative base and it’s just lazy now to not have apps that span operating systems and platforms.

Outside of very rare cases, the only time you need windows is if your in-house developer is old snd was last educated in their field 20 years ago and didn’t keep learning.

These “requirements” MS has introduced are to create an artificial divide between the Mac.

And that’s fine. The Mac is so much better and people know this already. MS is just hurting themselves.

I’ve had the privilege of working with two organizations that transitioned the entirety of their computing infrastructure to Mac OS, from accounting, to creative departments, to project management, to reception, to CRM.

If there must be a choice made, it will be Mac OS.

Windows is antiquated. Let it die already.

Well you’re not delusional at all. Macs are at about 8% market share globally. Which is where they were in 2008, though the share was rising then. Since Cook, the share has been largely flat; likely due to them being so expensive. Plus he doesn’t care about the Mac whatsoever because it’s not a big profit maker, which is what he does care about.

dope_ahmine · August 29, 2021 9:49AM

dewme said:

9secondkox2 said:

The times windows is actually needed these days is nearly 0.

Most developers realize that Mac users are a lucrative base and it’s just lazy now to not have apps that span operating systems and platforms.

Outside of very rare cases, the only time you need windows is if your in-house developer is old snd was last educated in their field 20 years ago and didn’t keep learning.

These “requirements” MS has introduced are to create an artificial divide between the Mac.

And that’s fine. The Mac is so much better and people know this already. MS is just hurting themselves.

I’ve had the privilege of working with two organizations that transitioned the entirety of their computing infrastructure to Mac OS, from accounting, to creative departments, to project management, to reception, to CRM.

If there must be a choice made, it will be Mac OS.

Windows is antiquated. Let it die already.

Windows is still in very wide use in several industries and critical businesses. I’ve yet to encounter Macs being used in manufacturing, industrial automation, DCS systems, process control, food processing, oil & gas, automobile manufacturing, large scale brewing, pharmaceuticals, water and waste water treatment, power generation, communication networks, point of sale systems, package shipping and handling, just to name a tiny sample of places where Windows plays an active role every single day. I've worked directly with at least one company that makes wafer fab processing and testing machinery and they were firmly entrenched in Windows, as were a couple of big beer breweries that I spent time working with Windows based SCADA and HMI systems.

Seeing how Windows has a role to play in helping to bring the chips that power my Apple computers to market, keep beer in my local supermarket, and keep the water flowing in my house I’d say that it’s death would be nothing short of a catastrophic event for maintaining the quality of life as those of us in developed countries have come to rely on.

I don’t know where you live, but all of the things I mentioned above, without even getting into financial, banking, or commerce, aren’t exactly what I’d consider “antiquated.” I kinda like having electricity, running water, cold beer, cars, food, medicines, internet access, a shiny new Mac, flushing toilets, and being able to take a shower every day. Call me old fashioned.

I absolutely don’t agree. In nearly all of the domains mentioned here, I’ve found people using Macs and iOS devices. I think your analysis is flawed. It’s not about the domains, but rather the specific areas within each domain.

I notice a strong relation in industry between innovation intense areas and usage of Apple products. In the same way, I see an equally strong relation between process/manufacturing intense areas and Microsoft usage.

Most business domains and companies have both of these activity areas. However, in general, there is a huge business shift towards innovation and away from factory activities eg processing and manufacturing. So, I anticipate either a growing adoption of Apple devices in these incumbent industries, or that Microsoft suddenly becomes a “creative” company.

auxio · August 29, 2021 4:08PM

GeorgeBMac said:

auxio said:

juanguapo said:

I don't run Windows anymore but it's my understanding that Macs do not have TPM modules, therefore, they cannot run it in Boot Camp but in virtualized environments (e.g., Paralles), it can be emulated.

Do I have this correct?

From what I've seen, most modern Intel CPUs actually have the TPM module built in. Which would mean that some Intel Macs have them, but whether or not the ability to access it is exposed by Apple's EFI is the big question.

As for emulation, yes, I've seen that VMWare has TPM emulation . Not sure about Parallels, but I'd assume so.

It's not a question. TPM is part of Intel's CPU's but Apple does not support it.

Apple doesn't provide a way to access it, but that doesn't mean it would be impossible to actually do so given someone with the technical skills and motivation to do so. I don't know the hardware details of how it works, but I did use the BIOS settings in my son's PC to turn it on. So it seems like it could be possible to customize the EFI on a Mac to do the same. Though Apple likely has checking in place to prevent using a modified EFI since it could be used to gain access to the secure enclave.

dewme · August 29, 2021 4:43PM

dope_ahmine said:

dewme said:

9secondkox2 said:

The times windows is actually needed these days is nearly 0.

Most developers realize that Mac users are a lucrative base and it’s just lazy now to not have apps that span operating systems and platforms.

Outside of very rare cases, the only time you need windows is if your in-house developer is old snd was last educated in their field 20 years ago and didn’t keep learning.

These “requirements” MS has introduced are to create an artificial divide between the Mac.

And that’s fine. The Mac is so much better and people know this already. MS is just hurting themselves.

I’ve had the privilege of working with two organizations that transitioned the entirety of their computing infrastructure to Mac OS, from accounting, to creative departments, to project management, to reception, to CRM.

If there must be a choice made, it will be Mac OS.

Windows is antiquated. Let it die already.

Windows is still in very wide use in several industries and critical businesses. I’ve yet to encounter Macs being used in manufacturing, industrial automation, DCS systems, process control, food processing, oil & gas, automobile manufacturing, large scale brewing, pharmaceuticals, water and waste water treatment, power generation, communication networks, point of sale systems, package shipping and handling, just to name a tiny sample of places where Windows plays an active role every single day. I've worked directly with at least one company that makes wafer fab processing and testing machinery and they were firmly entrenched in Windows, as were a couple of big beer breweries that I spent time working with Windows based SCADA and HMI systems.

Seeing how Windows has a role to play in helping to bring the chips that power my Apple computers to market, keep beer in my local supermarket, and keep the water flowing in my house I’d say that it’s death would be nothing short of a catastrophic event for maintaining the quality of life as those of us in developed countries have come to rely on.

I don’t know where you live, but all of the things I mentioned above, without even getting into financial, banking, or commerce, aren’t exactly what I’d consider “antiquated.” I kinda like having electricity, running water, cold beer, cars, food, medicines, internet access, a shiny new Mac, flushing toilets, and being able to take a shower every day. Call me old fashioned.

I absolutely don’t agree. In nearly all of the domains mentioned here, I’ve found people using Macs and iOS devices. I think your analysis is flawed. It’s not about the domains, but rather the specific areas within each domain.

I notice a strong relation in industry between innovation intense areas and usage of Apple products. In the same way, I see an equally strong relation between process/manufacturing intense areas and Microsoft usage.

Most business domains and companies have both of these activity areas. However, in general, there is a huge business shift towards innovation and away from factory activities eg processing and manufacturing. So, I anticipate either a growing adoption of Apple devices in these incumbent industries, or that Microsoft suddenly becomes a “creative” company.

I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Innovation is all about applying inventions, technology, engineering, and application of various processes in ways that deliver value to people and the environments in which they live. A diaper making machine that is controlled by a PLC and automated machinery that is programmed using a Windows application is innovation at its finest. If the engineers who did the PLC programming and device configuration or the electricians who wired up the IO to make all the physical components work all have iPhones in their pockets has no bearing on the innovation that matters, I.e., being able to produce and package thousands of diapers per hour that consumers depend on to live the life they choose. Substitute in your favorite product or service for diapers and the innovation, the delivery of value, doesn’t change one bit.

There is no such thing as innovation without the delivery of value. Manufacturing and production are some of the most important vehicles for delivering value. They don’t guarantee value delivery, because manufacturing something that nobody wants isn’t innovation any more than an invention that has no practical value is innovative. No human consumable value, no innovation. And without doubt, Windows is still a critical piece of the value delivery and by definition, enabling and sustaining innovation.

I’m not basing this on analysis, I’m basing it on first hand experience and knowledge.

So I’d really like to hear about all these business shifts that are “innovative” but somehow decoupled from a value delivery process that brings value into the lives of real people.

OutdoorAppDeveloper · August 29, 2021 6:10PM

A nod to Parallels: Bootcamp is a lot less necessary now you can run DX 12 apps in a VM. I tested Grand Theft Auto V running in Windows 11 via Parallels 17 on an M1 Mac Mini. It is quite playable. There were a few graphics glitches in the far distance but everything else looked fine. The x86 emulation is being done using Windows 11 rather than Rosetta in Mac OS but the performance was acceptable. The TPM 2 requirement is emulated via a hardware setting you add to the Windows 11 VM. As far as Windows is concerned, the Parallels VM is a fully compatible computer.

robaba · August 29, 2021 11:11PM

OutdoorAppDeveloper said:

A nod to Parallels: Bootcamp is a lot less necessary now you can run DX 12 apps in a VM. I tested Grand Theft Auto V running in Windows 11 via Parallels 17 on an M1 Mac Mini. It is quite playable. There were a few graphics glitches in the far distance but everything else looked fine. The x86 emulation is being done using Windows 11 rather than Rosetta in Mac OS but the performance was acceptable. The TPM 2 requirement is emulated via a hardware setting you add to the Windows 11 VM. As far as Windows is concerned, the Parallels VM is a fully compatible computer.

Impressive.

Microsoft updates CPU requirements for Windows 11

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