People are arguing for reasonable commissions for those use cases that resolves a big discrepancy in pricing that we are seeing today.
I see big complaints about the 'unreasonable' 30%commission all the time and have never yet seen one credible argument about what is reasonable. "I don't like it" or "that sounds large" is not a reasonable argument. How much does Best Buy etc. tack onto the wholesale price when they self software? How much do retailers in general tack on? I know 30% is not uncommon, might even be on the low side. People think the commission should be more like a finders fee where the finder does nothing except refer customers. It's not as if Apple doesn't incur costs running and maintaining the App Store.
People are arguing for reasonable commissions for those use cases that resolves a big discrepancy in pricing that we are seeing today.
I see big complaints about the 'unreasonable' 30%commission all the time and have never yet seen one credible argument about what is reasonable. "I don't like it" or "that sounds large" is not a reasonable argument. How much does Best Buy etc. tack onto the wholesale price when they self software? How much do retailers in general tack on? I know 30% is not uncommon, might even be on the low side. People think the commission should be more like a finders fee where the finder does nothing except refer customers. It's not as if Apple doesn't incur costs running and maintaining the App Store.
From the dollar you spend in the AppStore Apple keeps 30 cents.
According to expert testimony in the Epic case, from that 30 cent cut Apple spends 9 cents in supporting services and hardware to earn it. That leaves 21 cents as clear profit. That's a very healthy return, so no wonder Apple is so big on "Services".
Currently under 70 million population, SK has so many phone, e-mail scam going on. I guess this will add more scam. Good luck.. Welcome to the digital age.
I wouldn’t say that the alternate payment system issue is simple and unimportant. But the crucial issue here has be alluded to a few times: Does this legislation require Apple, Google, et al to design their OS so that their devices will run unsigned code? Currently all the apps available in the app stores only run on your device because it has been cryptographically signed using the secret key that only the platform owner has.
One commenter certainly presented a quote that implies this while another said the former was incorrect about the content of the legislation. If true this would be armageddon for the app ecosystem. Even with platform owners wielding their authority to reject or later disable undetected malicious code/behavior the system is not perfect. But remove that mechanism and you invite chaos. There are just too many bad actors out there to just “depend on the kindness of strangers”
This will have far reaching effects, so really hope Apple & Google simply pull the app-store from South Korea. I
100% agree. Pull the stores and leave South Korea scrambling until consumers rip the government a new one for trying to fix something that wasn’t broken. People retaliating against this legislation will prevent other countries from attempting to do the same. Allowing alternative stores opens up the platform to a world of hurt. There’s a reason I don’t use Android. I don’t want my experience as a consumer to be ruined or compromised because some clueless government bureaucrats half way around the world went on some bullshit self righteous crusade in seek of good press.
Just because other app stores are allowed, doesn't mean that you have to download apps from them. Stick with the Apple app store, and there is no change for you (or me). I would never go to another app store other than Apple's, so not a big deal to me. If people want to be stupid and download unknown apps from another site, that is on them, and one thing I really hope Apple does is have some sort of disclaimer that if you do, you may void your warranty.
The problem is that bad actors will use this to highjack payments and credit cards by creating stores that offer counterfeit apps and look legitimate or even look like Apple’s Store. This is a terrible idea.
Apple will need to cover its costs. I would rather not have this passed on to users. Options could include reducing the Apple fee in South Korea to a low enough number that it is not worth it for developers to implement - who will be under pressure to reduce the prices of their apps regardless now. Or perhaps developers who sell apps in South Korea and demand alternative payment system that completely avoids Apple, could have their developer fee increased to cover Apple's costs. Not $99. Perhaps $9,999.
Maybe Apple will just start charging those that do not qualify for the small business program, those that make more than 1 million on the app store, a lot more for developer membership, and also for dev tools and app submissions. Apple hinted at this in the Epic trial. They will get their money one way or another, they prefer the system they have now.
This is guaranteed to happen. It's absurd for developers to think that they'll be allowed to use all the benefits of the most lucrative app store on the planet for free.
Also I think pulling the App Store out of SK is a legit idea if they want to send a strong message. After the consumer and developer reactions start pouring in, other countries governments will think twice.
In my world, I would pull not only the App Store, but pull out of South Korea as well. People here can say it's inevitable that other countries will do it, but I think if they pull out then it will make other countries think twice.
If both Google and Apple pull out, it essentially means no modern smartphones will/can be used as Google won't allow Android to be sold in SK.
Crossing fingers. It's about time government officials began to feel the heat from their hastily created "laws" that do more harm than good.
So… the video game capital of the world takes sides wity a video game company which just so happens to be trying to ditch its obligation with Apple.
Conincidence?…
sure, let people choose to use another App Store, but with a caveat that Apple is not responsible for the breakdown of your devices security as a result. Probably need to void s warranty of some sort. Not fair for Apple to have to pay for tech support expenses caused by opening the floodgates to malware, etc.
And for those who want to use apples store, you pay a commission, just like any other brick and mortar store.
This will have far reaching effects, so really hope Apple & Google simply pull the app-store from South Korea. I
This won't happen, because pulling the App Store would mean pulling the iPhone / iPad. USA (and EU if USA fails) will probably the next to break the App Store monopoly...
Apple’s App Store was meant to ensure quality apps that don't steal CC info or scam you out of money.. yet that is still happening on the App Store. Maybe if Apple didn’t allow so many crap apps on the store I’d be against this decision but it sounds like they need some competition in the App Store arena. Time to grab the popcorn.
"User trust in App Store purchases will decrease as a result of this proposal" That's the best you got? You know there is this thing called the Internet that your customers use from time to time, right? You know that some of them have even purchased stuff from Apple's own web site that does not use the App Store payment system, right? Amazon doesn't use the App Store payment system either and plenty of people appear to trust it too.
It will be interesting to see how this eventually plays out. As it has been discussed many times over. Developer get a lot of value for their 30% they pay to have their apps in the App Store, there is many things Apple handles on behalf of the developers which they do not need to worry about. Then add in all the free developers tools and support they get, I know developers pay a licensing fee, but it is not much.
If Apple is now forced by law to allow developer to process their own payments and not give Apple a cut. Then also allow developer to have their own store, Apple need to start charging developer for all the tool and support. I think Developer will find out real fast what the real cost are, Not only will they have to pay apple for all their developer resources they will still have to pay payment processor as well as some sort of web hosing service to maintain their downloads.
This is like tell every store in the country they can not bar someone from placing their product on your store shelves, and letting the consumer pay the seller directly.
I'd love to see them stop selling hardware and apps in SK until it settles and see how the SK citizens react to going back to Motoral Razrs or bar phones.
That would create anti Apple sentiment across the country. People would say Apple would rather not sell anything than give up on some commissions and allow competition.
Samsung would be the national hero and sweep up every abandoned Apple user.
The most important thing though, is competition and freedom. Users get choice and that is necessary. Apple shouldn't be playing gatekeeper to what kind on apps are available or restricting competition on payments.
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Users get choice... Since when do users of just about any product really get a choice? Yes, you can choose to purchase or not purchase a product. When I go into a store, I can only purchase what they have in the form they have it in. My "choice" is what's offered, which isn't necessarily what I really want. Yes, I can try and find a similar object somewhere else but I want everything I want to buy be in the same store, I don't want to have to look around for things. This is what Apple provides. You might not like everything Apple does but they aren't any different that any other retailer in the world. This is why all these lawsuits are garbage. We all know every store we go into has its own set of rules. You don't like them, shop somewhere else. If you want to buy an Apple product, there are places you can buy them and places you can't. Don't say this is only a payment system because I've already addressed that with companies like Costco only accepting certain credit cards. Should Costco be forced to allow payments outside these credit cards? Should they be forced to allow someone to pay Sam's Club then pick up the product at Costco without paying Costco? Try it and see what happens. The people pushing these lawsuits are simply out to destroy Apple and countries are helping them.
The whole thing revolves around users not getting choice. The law is supposed to take a stab at that issue.
It's in the first sentence of the article. Apple's 'exclusive' commission.
Depending on how things play out here and in other jurisdictions, the gamut of apps might be widened too.
This will have far reaching effects, so really hope Apple & Google simply pull the app-store from South Korea. I
100% agree. Pull the stores and leave South Korea scrambling until consumers rip the government a new one for trying to fix something that wasn’t broken. People retaliating against this legislation will prevent other countries from attempting to do the same. Allowing alternative stores opens up the platform to a world of hurt. There’s a reason I don’t use Android. I don’t want my experience as a consumer to be ruined or compromised because some clueless government bureaucrats half way around the world went on some bullshit self righteous crusade in seek of good press.
Just because other app stores are allowed, doesn't mean that you have to download apps from them. Stick with the Apple app store, and there is no change for you (or me). I would never go to another app store other than Apple's, so not a big deal to me. If people want to be stupid and download unknown apps from another site, that is on them, and one thing I really hope Apple does is have some sort of disclaimer that if you do, you may void your warranty.
You make a fair case for consumer freedom. But you don't realize that corporations also have freedom to not be required to provide the software and services to allow for third party app stores. How would you like it if you sold lemonade on your street and were told by the government that you had to sell your neighbor's lemonade and give the profits of that lemonade to your neighbor? Apple works very hard and deserves the right to not have to share its app store profit with its competitors.
Apple sells lemonade cups (iPhones and iPads). All the kids (devs) in the neighborhood can sell flavors of lemonade(apps) but they have to pour it from the Apple pitcher (App Store) and Apple gets a cut of their sale. L'il Bobby has his own pitcher and doesn't think he needs to use the Apple pitcher. He can just pour his lemonade into the customers cup from his pitcher. Apple says no. Use my cup, you gotta use my pitcher. ↑↑↑ That's a more apt description of the situation. In this little story, most are still going to use the Apple pitcher because it's what they're used to using. Bobby eventually brings his flavor of lemonade back to the Apple pitcher because not enough people stopped using the Apple pitcher for it to be profitable.
I do like your analogy, expect one correct, apple is not just suppling the pitcher, they supply the entire infrastructure to make the lemonade including the pitcher. Apple is also teaching everyone how to make the lemonade free of charge. Apple is also doing all the marketing bringing everyone to your street. Apple also makes sure the lemonade meets all the quality standard so any lemonade you buy anywhere in he world it is all the same quality (that one is a little stretch) but you get the point.
This will have far reaching effects, so really hope Apple & Google simply pull the app-store from South Korea. I
100% agree. Pull the stores and leave South Korea scrambling until consumers rip the government a new one for trying to fix something that wasn’t broken. People retaliating against this legislation will prevent other countries from attempting to do the same. Allowing alternative stores opens up the platform to a world of hurt. There’s a reason I don’t use Android. I don’t want my experience as a consumer to be ruined or compromised because some clueless government bureaucrats half way around the world went on some bullshit self righteous crusade in seek of good press.
Just because other app stores are allowed, doesn't mean that you have to download apps from them. Stick with the Apple app store, and there is no change for you (or me). I would never go to another app store other than Apple's, so not a big deal to me. If people want to be stupid and download unknown apps from another site, that is on them, and one thing I really hope Apple does is have some sort of disclaimer that if you do, you may void your warranty.
You make a fair case for consumer freedom. But you don't realize that corporations also have freedom to not be required to provide the software and services to allow for third party app stores. How would you like it if you sold lemonade on your street and were told by the government that you had to sell your neighbor's lemonade and give the profits of that lemonade to your neighbor? Apple works very hard and deserves the right to not have to share its app store profit with its competitors.
Apple sells lemonade cups (iPhones and iPads). All the kids (devs) in the neighborhood can sell flavors of lemonade(apps) but they have to pour it from the Apple pitcher (App Store) and Apple gets a cut of their sale. L'il Bobby has his own pitcher and doesn't think he needs to use the Apple pitcher. He can just pour his lemonade into the customers cup from his pitcher. Apple says no. Use my cup, you gotta use my pitcher. ↑↑↑ That's a more apt description of the situation. In this little story, most are still going to use the Apple pitcher because it's what they're used to using. Bobby eventually brings his flavor of lemonade back to the Apple pitcher because not enough people stopped using the Apple pitcher for it to be profitable.
You do realise that the purpose of an analogy is supposed to be to make an idea easier to understand by relating it to something simple in the everyday world? No one sells lemonade like that.
The analogy made perfect sense to me.
It makes sense, but it's no simpler than just describing the App Store as it is. It doesn't bring any simplicity.
This will have far reaching effects, so really hope Apple & Google simply pull the app-store from South Korea. I
100% agree. Pull the stores and leave South Korea scrambling until consumers rip the government a new one for trying to fix something that wasn’t broken. People retaliating against this legislation will prevent other countries from attempting to do the same. Allowing alternative stores opens up the platform to a world of hurt. There’s a reason I don’t use Android. I don’t want my experience as a consumer to be ruined or compromised because some clueless government bureaucrats half way around the world went on some bullshit self righteous crusade in seek of good press.
Come on man, that’s unrealistic and a somewhat childish response. Apple makes so much money in SK, and removing their store there would be in violation of consumer rights who now end up with a brick with a screen.
This will have far reaching effects, so really hope Apple & Google simply pull the app-store from South Korea. I
100% agree. Pull the stores and leave South Korea scrambling until consumers rip the government a new one for trying to fix something that wasn’t broken. People retaliating against this legislation will prevent other countries from attempting to do the same. Allowing alternative stores opens up the platform to a world of hurt. There’s a reason I don’t use Android. I don’t want my experience as a consumer to be ruined or compromised because some clueless government bureaucrats half way around the world went on some bullshit self righteous crusade in seek of good press.
Just because other app stores are allowed, doesn't mean that you have to download apps from them. Stick with the Apple app store, and there is no change for you (or me). I would never go to another app store other than Apple's, so not a big deal to me. If people want to be stupid and download unknown apps from another site, that is on them, and one thing I really hope Apple does is have some sort of disclaimer that if you do, you may void your warranty.
It doesn't matter if that choice exists. People are inherently stupid to begin with, and never take responsibility for their own stupidity.
Guaranteed what will happen next is when people start getting scam charges on their credit cards after downloading the next fad app on some rogue app store, who do you think they're going to blame? They will blame Apple just because it's the easiest scapegoat.
I hope Apple gets the White House involved. If Samsung-owned South Korea can perform such hostile actions against interstate commerce, I think we can respond in kind by pulling investments, military out of SK and tariff the hell out of everything that comes out of that country as well.
Comments
According to expert testimony in the Epic case, from that 30 cent cut Apple spends 9 cents in supporting services and hardware to earn it. That leaves 21 cents as clear profit. That's a very healthy return, so no wonder Apple is so big on "Services".
Good luck.. Welcome to the digital age.
One commenter certainly presented a quote that implies this while another said the former was incorrect about the content of the legislation. If true this would be armageddon for the app ecosystem. Even with platform owners wielding their authority to reject or later disable undetected malicious code/behavior the system is not perfect. But remove that mechanism and you invite chaos. There are just too many bad actors out there to just “depend on the kindness of strangers”
Also I think pulling the App Store out of SK is a legit idea if they want to send a strong message. After the consumer and developer reactions start pouring in, other countries governments will think twice.
Conincidence?…
sure, let people choose to use another App Store, but with a caveat that Apple is not responsible for the breakdown of your devices security as a result. Probably need to void s warranty of some sort. Not fair for Apple to have to pay for tech support expenses caused by opening the floodgates to malware, etc.
USA (and EU if USA fails) will probably the next to break the App Store monopoly...
That's the best you got? You know there is this thing called the Internet that your customers use from time to time, right? You know that some of them have even purchased stuff from Apple's own web site that does not use the App Store payment system, right? Amazon doesn't use the App Store payment system either and plenty of people appear to trust it too.
If Apple is now forced by law to allow developer to process their own payments and not give Apple a cut. Then also allow developer to have their own store, Apple need to start charging developer for all the tool and support. I think Developer will find out real fast what the real cost are, Not only will they have to pay apple for all their developer resources they will still have to pay payment processor as well as some sort of web hosing service to maintain their downloads.
This is like tell every store in the country they can not bar someone from placing their product on your store shelves, and letting the consumer pay the seller directly.
Samsung would be the national hero and sweep up every abandoned Apple user.
It's in the first sentence of the article. Apple's 'exclusive' commission.
Depending on how things play out here and in other jurisdictions, the gamut of apps might be widened too.