Pay up or get out: Apple's options for South Korea's App Store law

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 84
    But the biggest players, like Epic Games, will run their own payment systems. They'll also expect to get the same promotion that they have before

    I don’t think I’ve read anywhere that Epic have stated they expect Apple to provide promotion of their software.
    muthuk_vanalingamtylersdaddarkvaderwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 84
    killroy said:
    tylersdad said:
    rob53 said:
    Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
    So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.

    Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
    No. As a developer, I feel I should not be limited to Apple's way of distributing apps to my users. 

    It's as simple as that. I won't use their infrastructure and they won't get any money from me (other than my developers subscription). 

    You well pay for use of their server. And you well be kicked off if your app has malware.
    Why would I use their server? My customers are able to download apps from my website and install them. 
    darkvaderelijahg
  • Reply 23 of 84
    rob53 said:
    Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
    So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.

    Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
    There were always free apps in the App Store. The difference now is that if it's not free (in-app purchases) Apple may not participate.
    One reason Apple should do this: Not all customers buy an iPhone because of the fancy hardware, but because of great apps.
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 84
    darkpawdarkpaw Posts: 208member
    darkpaw said:
    What does this give to an indie developer? I can see it only affecting those developers who have the means to implement their own payment processor.

    What happens if Apple have to allow third-party stores onto iOS? Do I, as an indie dev, have to decide which stores to put my apps on? It's hard enough to deal with the one App Store at the moment, but adding extras will make it very time-consuming for me.

    Will Apple have to create some way for any third-party store to check our developer profiles and certificates?

    And what about updates? If I've signed up to three or four stores, every update has to go to those three or four stores. That multiplies my work with every store I sell in.

    Where are the updates stored? My own server? AWS? Who's paying for this?

    Will every store use the same image sizes for their marketing etc., or will I have to do a 2048x2048px image for Apple's store, and an 1896x1896px one for a different store?

    And what store is going to do this out of the goodness of their hearts? None. There will be a price. Will it be $99/year like Apple's? SO now I have to pay $99 plus $49 plus $35 plus $50 for those other stores every year.

    As an indie dev, I can't afford that. I'd stick with Apple's way of doing it.
    A post with too many silly questions. Funnily enough, you have answered ALL of your questions in the last line of your post. NOTHING changes for you. 
    What silly questions? I asked pertinent questions. Your response was silly.
    jahbladewatto_cobraurahara
  • Reply 25 of 84
    killroykillroy Posts: 161member
    tylersdad said:
    killroy said:
    tylersdad said:
    rob53 said:
    Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
    So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.

    Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
    No. As a developer, I feel I should not be limited to Apple's way of distributing apps to my users. 

    It's as simple as that. I won't use their infrastructure and they won't get any money from me (other than my developers subscription). 

    You well pay for use of their server. And you well be kicked off if your app has malware.
    Why would I use their server? My customers are able to download apps from my website and install them. 

    We are talking about iOS app store. Not the Mac app store.
    edited August 31 jahbladewatto_cobraurahara
  • Reply 26 of 84
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,246member
    tylersdad said:
    loopless said:
    Only people who have never developed an app for sale want this to happen. Apple takes care of everything for you, money just appears in your bank account. It's worth every penny.
    Somehow I'm able to get my apps out to Windows users without the use of Microsoft's app store. Just like I've been doing since 1995. 

    So how is that working out for you on the X-box???  By the way, even though you don't use Microsoft's app store on Windows, look at all the security issues and viruses on that platform from people just downloading whatever from anywhere. An issue you don't see on the Xbox CLOSED Platform!!!  You are trying to compare apples and oranges.

    How about we look at the old days.  You know the days before the Internet.  You know where you had to get your Game or App massed produced onto floppy's or discs.  You don't want to have so many made and lose money.  Then there was Box Art, and instruction manuals.  All put together and sealed.  That is all costing YOU money.  Then you had the distributors get your software out to all the stores. They took a cut.  Then the Stores sold that software and they once again took their own cut.  

    You really have it EASY these days.  A simple 30% cut and Ap[ple or Google handles everything.  All you have to do is upload it into their store.

    If people don't like it.  They are FREE to create their own OS and Phones and have a completely open platform.  There is not a single person stopping anyone from doing that.  Create a better platform and people will flee to it.
    mike1viclauyycmwhiteradarthekatjahbladewatto_cobraurahara
  • Reply 27 of 84
    barthrhbarthrh Posts: 113member
    It seems like the easy solution is to raise prices in SK by 3.1% (probably more due to income taxes, but conceptually the same).
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 84
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,903member
    jbdragon said:
    tylersdad said:
    loopless said:
    Only people who have never developed an app for sale want this to happen. Apple takes care of everything for you, money just appears in your bank account. It's worth every penny.
    Somehow I'm able to get my apps out to Windows users without the use of Microsoft's app store. Just like I've been doing since 1995. 

    So how is that working out for you on the X-box???  By the way, even though you don't use Microsoft's app store on Windows, look at all the security issues and viruses on that platform from people just downloading whatever from anywhere. An issue you don't see on the Xbox CLOSED Platform!!!  You are trying to compare apples and oranges.

    How about we look at the old days.  You know the days before the Internet.  You know where you had to get your Game or App massed produced onto floppy's or discs.  You don't want to have so many made and lose money.  Then there was Box Art, and instruction manuals.  All put together and sealed.  That is all costing YOU money.  Then you had the distributors get your software out to all the stores. They took a cut.  Then the Stores sold that software and they once again took their own cut.  
    You make a great argument, and then...
    You really have it EASY these days.  A simple 30% cut and Ap[ple or Google handles everything.  All you have to do is upload it into their store.

    If people don't like it.  They are FREE to create their own OS and Phones and have a completely open platform.  There is not a single person stopping anyone from doing that.  Create a better platform and people will flee to it.
    30% is a massive chunk of a digital good, and Apple's missteps and arbitrary rule applications, on top of a general lack of features and development, undermine it.  If Apple are going to charge 30% then they'd better make it worth it, or people will be pissed.  And if not, lower the damn charge.  "Create a better platform" is not an argument, companies like Microsoft have failed to make a dent in the Apple-Google duopoly, the barriers to entry are too high.

    Apple could have diffused this whole circus if they'd been better custodians of the store and acted like partners to the development community rather than overlords.  Monopolies and duopolies aren't innately bad, but monopolistic actions are, and Apple have profiteered and thrown their weight around way too much; it was bound to lead to this.
    edited August 31 gatorguyFileMakerFellermuthuk_vanalingamdarkvaderelijahg
  • Reply 29 of 84
    I read a bunch of developer comment here that they were happy with the system as is. I see that greedy big names have gotten in the news by trying to grift off of what Apple provides, but I don't see what Apple has done other than provide a system that addresses as many needs as possible with the fewest exceptions. They have made an environment for mom & pop startups to sell to the giant world of iPhones and allow these companies to grow and make more money as they do.

    I have heard of people complain that they don't get feedback from Apple very quickly, but it is a production line getting apps reviewed and onto the store. I also didn't ever hear from the guys putting my Tesla together while they built it. I just got the car at the delivery center when they were done and they had already moved on to the next car. That's how economies of scale work.

    How do you mean Apple could have diffused this? Pandered to greedy successful developers at the expense of others?
    viclauyycmwhiteradarthekataderutterjahbladewatto_cobraurahara
  • Reply 30 of 84
    mike1mike1 Posts: 2,780member
    The solution might be as simple as developers have two choices.

    Use our App store for payments at our current rates and we'll host your app at no charge.
    or
    Use your own payment provider and we'll charge you $1.00 (or some other amount) per download of the app.
    aderutterwatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 31 of 84
    j2fusionj2fusion Posts: 140member
    tylersdad said:
    rob53 said:
    Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
    So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.

    Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
    No. As a developer, I feel I should not be limited to Apple's way of distributing apps to my users. 

    It's as simple as that. I won't use their infrastructure and they won't get any money from me (other than my developers subscription). 
    And as a developer, you are not forced to develop for iOS.  You develop for iOS because you know the potential market for your product is huge.  The thing is, Apple by its products and policies has developed the most lucrative app market in the world and you seem to think you should have access to it for free. Perhaps I misread your post but that’s what it seems to me. 
    edited August 31 mwhiteradarthekatDBSyncaderutterkillroyglennhjahbladewatto_cobraurahara
  • Reply 32 of 84
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,172member
    Options:
    1 lobby SK President not to sign it
    2 lobby US President to do something (laughs)
    3 refuse to comply: pay the fines and increase app prices and commissions to offset. And explain why to every SK consumer with pop ups and banners as to why they must pay more compared with consumers in other countries
    4 pull out of SK
    5 roll over and comply, not just in South Korea but everywhere.

    right now there is an SMS EBAY scam plaguing Australians that side loads malware on android devices if you follow the link. It doesn’t work on iOS devices. This is simply because of the current AppStore framework that would end if Apple complied.

    edited August 31 radarthekatDBSyncaderutterwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 84
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,252member
    entropys said:

    right now there is an SMS EBAY scam plaguing Australians that side loads malware on android devices if you follow the link. It doesn’t work on iOS devices. This is simply because of the current AppStore framework that would end if Apple complied.

    It won't work on an Android phone either unless....
    Yup, if an Android user sets their phone to accept 3rd party app sources, which is not the default. It does require more attention on the part of the phone owner if you're going to stray outside of the official stores for your apps and Google warns you about it before allowing you to make the necessary settings changes. Still, it's your phone. Some people don't use cases or screen-protectors either, or think it dumb to buy extended warranty coverage. 
    edited August 31 ctt_zhmuthuk_vanalingamPascalxxelijahg
  • Reply 34 of 84
    Apple should go back to making great hardware and operating systems and leave the customers and developers to make their own decisions. Apple has not done well in the roll of an evil mega-corp trying to control every tiny aspect of how their phones, watches and tablets are used.
    darkvaderelijahg
  • Reply 35 of 84
    killroy said:
    tylersdad said:
    killroy said:
    tylersdad said:
    rob53 said:
    Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
    So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.

    Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
    No. As a developer, I feel I should not be limited to Apple's way of distributing apps to my users. 

    It's as simple as that. I won't use their infrastructure and they won't get any money from me (other than my developers subscription). 

    You well pay for use of their server. And you well be kicked off if your app has malware.
    Why would I use their server? My customers are able to download apps from my website and install them. 

    We are talking about iOS app store. Not the Mac app store.
    What difference does that make? An app is an app. An iPhone or an iPad is just another type of computer. 
    muthuk_vanalingamdarkvaderelijahg
  • Reply 36 of 84
    jbdragon said:
    tylersdad said:
    loopless said:
    Only people who have never developed an app for sale want this to happen. Apple takes care of everything for you, money just appears in your bank account. It's worth every penny.
    Somehow I'm able to get my apps out to Windows users without the use of Microsoft's app store. Just like I've been doing since 1995. 

    So how is that working out for you on the X-box???  By the way, even though you don't use Microsoft's app store on Windows, look at all the security issues and viruses on that platform from people just downloading whatever from anywhere. An issue you don't see on the Xbox CLOSED Platform!!!  You are trying to compare apples and oranges.

    How about we look at the old days.  You know the days before the Internet.  You know where you had to get your Game or App massed produced onto floppy's or discs.  You don't want to have so many made and lose money.  Then there was Box Art, and instruction manuals.  All put together and sealed.  That is all costing YOU money.  Then you had the distributors get your software out to all the stores. They took a cut.  Then the Stores sold that software and they once again took their own cut.  

    You really have it EASY these days.  A simple 30% cut and Ap[ple or Google handles everything.  All you have to do is upload it into their store.

    If people don't like it.  They are FREE to create their own OS and Phones and have a completely open platform.  There is not a single person stopping anyone from doing that.  Create a better platform and people will flee to it.
    Nice red herring fallacy. I don't develop for the Xbox. 
    gatorguykillroydarkvaderelijahg
  • Reply 37 of 84
    j2fusion said:
    tylersdad said:
    rob53 said:
    Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
    So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.

    Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
    No. As a developer, I feel I should not be limited to Apple's way of distributing apps to my users. 

    It's as simple as that. I won't use their infrastructure and they won't get any money from me (other than my developers subscription). 
    And as a developer, you are not forced to develop for iOS.  You develop for iOS because you know the potential market for your product is huge.  The thing is, Apple by its products and policies has developed the most lucrative app market in the world and you seem to think you should have access to it for free. Perhaps I misread your post but that’s what it seems to me. 
    Make all the excuses you want. iPhones and iPads are just different kinds of computers. There's no technical reason why apps have to be purchased through any kind of store. I don't think I should have access to the App Store for free, but I don't believe I should have to use the App Store to distribute my apps. That's only rule Apple put in place so that they could take 30% of my profit. 
    darkvaderelijahg
  • Reply 38 of 84
    jdb8167jdb8167 Posts: 621member
    Everyone is making this too complicated. This law only applies to in-app-purchases. A very simple solution is to disallow free apps with non-Apple payment for IAP.

    Make an app with IAP that doesn’t use the App Store for payment have a minimum price, say $4.99 (equivalent in SK). Apple gets paid for hosting. Nothing changes for other developers. Of course developers will hate it because they lose their free ride. 
    edited August 31 killroyradarthekataderutterwatto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 84
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,172member
    tylersdad said:
    j2fusion said:
    tylersdad said:
    rob53 said:
    Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
    So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.

    Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
    No. As a developer, I feel I should not be limited to Apple's way of distributing apps to my users. 

    It's as simple as that. I won't use their infrastructure and they won't get any money from me (other than my developers subscription). 
    And as a developer, you are not forced to develop for iOS.  You develop for iOS because you know the potential market for your product is huge.  The thing is, Apple by its products and policies has developed the most lucrative app market in the world and you seem to think you should have access to it for free. Perhaps I misread your post but that’s what it seems to me. 
    Make all the excuses you want. iPhones and iPads are just different kinds of computers. There's no technical reason why apps have to be purchased through any kind of store. I don't think I should have access to the App Store for free, but I don't believe I should have to use the App Store to distribute my apps. That's only rule Apple put in place so that they could take 30% of my profit. 
    People choosing iOS are choosing that model though. Otherwise they would go with the other mob. They are cheaper. This bill removes that preference from consumers.
    radarthekatwatto_cobrauraharaDetnator
  • Reply 40 of 84
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,903member
    jdb8167 said:
    Everyone is making this too complicated. This law only applies to in-app-purchases. A very simple solution is to disallow free apps with non-Apple payment for IAP.

    Make an app with IAP that doesn’t use the App Store for payment have a minimum price, say $4.99 (equivalent in SK). Apple gets paid for hosting. Nothing changes for other developers. Of course developers will hate it because they lose their free ride. 
    You really think that's going to fly?  Apple are in trouble for anti-competitive behaviour, and you think their solution will be to pick another anticompetitive behaviour as revenge and everything will be fine?

    If there's a hoisting fee it'll need to apply across the board or it'll be discriminatory.
    entropysmuthuk_vanalingamdarkvaderelijahg
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