What does this give to an indie developer? I can see it only affecting those developers who have the means to implement their own payment processor.
What happens if Apple have to allow third-party stores onto iOS? Do I, as an indie dev, have to decide which stores to put my apps on? It's hard enough to deal with the one App Store at the moment, but adding extras will make it very time-consuming for me.
Will Apple have to create some way for any third-party store to check our developer profiles and certificates?
And what about updates? If I've signed up to three or four stores, every update has to go to those three or four stores. That multiplies my work with every store I sell in.
Where are the updates stored? My own server? AWS? Who's paying for this?
Will every store use the same image sizes for their marketing etc., or will I have to do a 2048x2048px image for Apple's store, and an 1896x1896px one for a different store?
And what store is going to do this out of the goodness of their hearts? None. There will be a price. Will it be $99/year like Apple's? SO now I have to pay $99 plus $49 plus $35 plus $50 for those other stores every year.
As an indie dev, I can't afford that. I'd stick with Apple's way of doing it.
A post with too many silly questions. Funnily enough, you have answered ALL of your questions in the last line of your post. NOTHING changes for you.
Except for the sales environment. Just like when a Walmart comes to a small town, customers of existing stores may not change their behaviour but they still get exposed to people who do.
Only people who have never developed an app for sale want this to happen. Apple takes care of everything for you, money just appears in your bank account. It's worth every penny.
Somehow I'm able to get my apps out to Windows users without the use of Microsoft's app store. Just like I've been doing since 1995.
So how is that working out for you on the X-box??? By the way, even though you don't use Microsoft's app store on Windows, look at all the security issues and viruses on that platform from people just downloading whatever from anywhere. An issue you don't see on the Xbox CLOSED Platform!!! You are trying to compare apples and oranges.
How about we look at the old days. You know the days before the Internet. You know where you had to get your Game or App massed produced onto floppy's or discs. You don't want to have so many made and lose money. Then there was Box Art, and instruction manuals. All put together and sealed. That is all costing YOU money. Then you had the distributors get your software out to all the stores. They took a cut. Then the Stores sold that software and they once again took their own cut.
You really have it EASY these days. A simple 30% cut and Ap[ple or Google handles everything. All you have to do is upload it into their store.
If people don't like it. They are FREE to create their own OS and Phones and have a completely open platform. There is not a single person stopping anyone from doing that. Create a better platform and people will flee to it.
30% is a massive chunk of a digital good, and Apple's missteps and arbitrary rule applications, on top of a general lack of features and development, undermine it. If Apple are going to charge 30% then they'd better make it worth it, or people will be pissed. And if not, lower the damn charge. "Create a better platform" is not an argument, companies like Microsoft have failed to make a dent in the Apple-Google duopoly, the barriers to entry are too high.
Apple could have diffused this whole circus if they'd been better custodians of the store and acted like partners to the development community rather than overlords. Monopolies and duopolies aren't innately bad, but monopolistic actions are, and Apple have profiteered and thrown their weight around way too much; it was bound to lead to this.
Isn’t it 15% as long as your revenue is under one million USD per annum?
Also, as long as you cannot side load apps you will have to go through their store which means using their infrastructure for at least showing up in the catalogue with description and images / movies. That’s what you may be charged for, then.
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.
Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
You have misread his post completely!!! He has been arguing that Apple SHOULD pull out of countries which pass laws unfavorable to Apple, like the one that South Korea passed now. Almost, half of his posts in this forum are about this. And he has been ridiculed/ignored by many of the AI forum members for those comments. He strongly believes that Apple pulling out of a major market over unfavorable laws is inevitable and wants to see that happen sooner. His post in this thread was related to that.
You are 100% correct, friend. When I said, "I've been arguing for this for years" I was referring to the headline which said, "Pay up or GET OUT." I was calling on Apple to get out. I can see that you remember that "half my posts are about that." But in hindsight I should have resolved the pronoun that I used to prevent people from misunderstanding. I can see lots of people accused me of being on the other side of the argument. I guess I'm happy that finally there are a significant number of people calling on Apple to "get out." I suppose many of my 2000 posts were not written in vain.
Excuse me, General Motors, we really think it's only fair that you be forced to take up space on your dealership lots, hire salesmen, provide record-keeping, pre-sale maintenance, offer financing, and millions of dollars per year in marketing, for FORD cars and trucks... AT NO COST TO FORD.
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.
Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
Perhaps a progressive switching towards a model similar/referencing to colocation hosting services may be the way out on how to deal with developers. Catalog 'App Store' services (to developers) and a price tag accordingly.
Example: Colocation/Hosting Providers charges for # of CPUs, GBs of RAM, GBs of Storage Capacity. In the case of App Store, it can be something like:
App Hosting Service Cat A - 100MB @ $1.00 (w/o data backup) per app version and per market (if app is available/publish in 10 markets, it's charged accordingly);
App Hosting Service Cat B - 100MB @ $5.00 (inclusive of data backup, retention policy of 14 days) per app version and per market;
It may also be two differentiated models:
Existing 'pool-based' Model for those developers who opt to stick;
New per service per market based Model.
Ultimately, these creates choices and shut those politicians and regulators up. Apple can also remove itself from some of the unnecessary collateral liabilities which it has been shouldering for last decade or longer. Example: Parents will no longer be able to get support from Apple for app purchases made by their children which are paid via non-Apple payment system. Not legal expert here but I am sure there are legal liabilities which Apple can save itself from. Who knows, maybe a total revamp of App Store where it can toggle between Apple Payment mode or Non-Apple Payment mode and lists only those apps which have opted for each of the mode, and associated set of T&Cs for each mode.
Interesting ideas. I’d also add that the APIs and interfaces Apple provides to developers might no longer be free. They could be broken out as separate items Apple charges for, but included in a bundle that also includes payment processing. Magically it would all calculate to equal or exceed 30% (or 15%, whichever currently applies). No reason Apple could be forced to provide those free to developers not using the current bundled App Store, which is far more than just payment processing. I’ve a feeling South Korean developers are going to soon be made aware exactly how much more has been offered by Apple, and that it likely won’t be included for free any longer.
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.
Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
You have misread his post completely!!! He has been arguing that Apple SHOULD pull out of countries which pass laws unfavorable to Apple, like the one that South Korea passed now. Almost, half of his posts in this forum are about this. And he has been ridiculed/ignored by many of the AI forum members for those comments. He strongly believes that Apple pulling out of a major market over unfavorable laws is inevitable and wants to see that happen sooner. His post in this thread was related to that.
You are 100% correct, friend. When I said, "I've been arguing for this for years" I was referring to the headline which said, "Pay up or GET OUT." I was calling on Apple to get out. I can see that you remember that "half my posts are about that." But in hindsight I should have resolved the pronoun that I used to prevent people from misunderstanding. I can see lots of people accused me of being on the other side of the argument. I guess I'm happy that finally there are a significant number of people calling on Apple to "get out." I suppose many of my 2000 posts were not written in vain.
Yes, many people misread your post. And that includes GatorGuy, who usually pays attention to who posts what. While I acknowledged your stance on this topic, I strongly disagree with that. I.e. Apple pulling out of a country when the laws are passed unfavorable to Apple. In my view, Apple will continue to do business in that country and find ways to stay compliant with the law (with China being the prime example, Russia being the second one in recent times). Anyway, we will soon see how this plays out.
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.
Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
No. As a developer, I feel I should not be limited to Apple's way of distributing apps to my users.
It's as simple as that. I won't use their infrastructure and they won't get any money from me (other than my developers subscription).
And as a developer, you are not forced to develop for iOS. You develop for iOS because you know the potential market for your product is huge. The thing is, Apple by its products and policies has developed the most lucrative app market in the world and you seem to think you should have access to it for free. Perhaps I misread your post but that’s what it seems to me.
Make all the excuses you want. iPhones and iPads are just different kinds of computers. There's no technical reason why apps have to be purchased through any kind of store. I don't think I should have access to the App Store for free, but I don't believe I should have to use the App Store to distribute my apps. That's only rule Apple put in place so that they could take 30% of my profit.
People choosing iOS are choosing that model though. Otherwise they would go with the other mob. They are cheaper. This bill removes that preference from consumers.
That's not why I chose it. I guess I'm not "people".
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.
Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
No. As a developer, I feel I should not be limited to Apple's way of distributing apps to my users.
It's as simple as that. I won't use their infrastructure and they won't get any money from me (other than my developers subscription).
What about using the software development libraries you’ve been using all along to create apps? What if Apple decides they want their 30% for those going forward, but you can use your own payment gateway. Then if you want to avoid the 30% you simple need to develop your own SDK binaries, oh, and an OS that runs them all. Maybe Apple will even allow you to side load all that, after they finish suing you for any copyright infringement you create along the way.
What happens if Apple have to allow third-party stores onto iOS? Do I, as an indie dev, have to decide which stores to put my apps on? It's hard enough to deal with the one App Store at the moment, but adding extras will make it very time-consuming for me.
Well like virtually any other business you’ll need to initially test all the markets you have access to and then focus on the one’s that give you the higher revenues.
I do wonder what would make developers assume they would have access to SDK libraries for their apps they intend to load via alternative app stores. For that matter, what makes them assume Apple would grant them language localization and internationalization services when developing apps. Do all that yourself too, developers. Unless you want to pay a small commission for license to those capabilities. Maybe Apple should try this out with its support for the Korean language first. See how it goes.
What does this give to an indie developer? I can see it only affecting those developers who have the means to implement their own payment processor.
What happens if Apple have to allow third-party stores onto iOS? Do I, as an indie dev, have to decide which stores to put my apps on? It's hard enough to deal with the one App Store at the moment, but adding extras will make it very time-consuming for me.
Will Apple have to create some way for any third-party store to check our developer profiles and certificates?
And what about updates? If I've signed up to three or four stores, every update has to go to those three or four stores. That multiplies my work with every store I sell in.
Where are the updates stored? My own server? AWS? Who's paying for this?
Will every store use the same image sizes for their marketing etc., or will I have to do a 2048x2048px image for Apple's store, and an 1896x1896px one for a different store?
And what store is going to do this out of the goodness of their hearts? None. There will be a price. Will it be $99/year like Apple's? SO now I have to pay $99 plus $49 plus $35 plus $50 for those other stores every year.
As an indie dev, I can't afford that. I'd stick with Apple's way of doing it.
A post with too many silly questions. Funnily enough, you have answered ALL of your questions in the last line of your post. NOTHING changes for you.
Except for the sales environment. Just like when a Walmart comes to a small town, customers of existing stores may not change their behaviour but they still get exposed to people who do.
There is no change that has zero effects.
Well, SK just made a change and you can bet it’ll have effects. Life is about to get complicated for some developers.
What does this give to an indie developer? I can see it only affecting those developers who have the means to implement their own payment processor.
What happens if Apple have to allow third-party stores onto iOS? Do I, as an indie dev, have to decide which stores to put my apps on? It's hard enough to deal with the one App Store at the moment, but adding extras will make it very time-consuming for me.
Will Apple have to create some way for any third-party store to check our developer profiles and certificates?
And what about updates? If I've signed up to three or four stores, every update has to go to those three or four stores. That multiplies my work with every store I sell in.
Where are the updates stored? My own server? AWS? Who's paying for this?
Will every store use the same image sizes for their marketing etc., or will I have to do a 2048x2048px image for Apple's store, and an 1896x1896px one for a different store?
And what store is going to do this out of the goodness of their hearts? None. There will be a price. Will it be $99/year like Apple's? SO now I have to pay $99 plus $49 plus $35 plus $50 for those other stores every year.
As an indie dev, I can't afford that. I'd stick with Apple's way of doing it.
A post with too many silly questions. Funnily enough, you have answered ALL of your questions in the last line of your post. NOTHING changes for you.
Except for the sales environment. Just like when a Walmart comes to a small town, customers of existing stores may not change their behaviour but they still get exposed to people who do.
There is no change that has zero effects.
Well, I did NOT say that this law has zero effects for ALL people. It does impact many people/organizations, including developers who decide to use alternate payment methods. For the specific developer to whom I replied to, there would be no changes since he is going to make his App available only in App store and use Apple's payment method.
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.
Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
No. As a developer, I feel I should not be limited to Apple's way of distributing apps to my users.
It's as simple as that. I won't use their infrastructure and they won't get any money from me (other than my developers subscription).
You well pay for use of their server. And you well be kicked off if your app has malware.
Why would I use their server? My customers are able to download apps from my website and install them.
We are talking about iOS app store. Not the Mac app store.
What difference does that make? An app is an app. An iPhone or an iPad is just another type of computer.
The difference is the Mac isn’t locked down. You can download anything you want (provided you turn off Gatekeeper.) iOS has been locked down from day one.
For idiots who defended knockoff devices. This is what happens when you allow knockoffs to pass as the real thing. Now countries and anyone can say “don’t like it? Leave.” to Apple and replace them with any knockoff (Samsung in this case) they want.
Obama failed us, Trump failed us. Biden still has a chance but it may be too late. Instead of pandering to foreign knockoff companies America should have stuck by their innovators and builders. I can’t tell you how many times I hear “but that would be unfair to China”, a country who is first to steal American technology.
Google should have been stopped in its tracks for the same practices. American or not. The fact Android is open was a HUGE HUGE HUGE red flag. Now, even Google is getting kicked out.
It's as if you were posting a comment on an entirely different article. There is nothing here that is even remotely relevant or related to the article.
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you are all for someone going into Target and setting up their own cash registers.
I think he's fine with Target selling him the pants and making a profit from it. He just wouldn't want to pay Target a commission for the matching shirt he purchases directly from the pants-maker.
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you are all for someone going into Target and setting up their own cash registers.
I think he's fine with Target selling him the pants and making a profit from it. He just wouldn't want to pay Target a commission for the matching shirt he purchases directly from the pants-maker.
But he still wants Target to deliver the matching shirt.
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you are all for someone going into Target and setting up their own cash registers.
I think he's fine with Target selling him the pants and making a profit from it. He just wouldn't want to pay Target a commission for the matching shirt he purchases directly from the pants-maker.
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you are all for someone going into Target and setting up their own cash registers.
I think he's fine with Target selling him the pants and making a profit from it. He just wouldn't want to pay Target a commission for the matching shirt he purchases directly from the pants-maker.
But he still wants Target to deliver the matching shirt.
Apple does not host all in-app purchase content. There's an option for them to, but developers can host it themselves too. This is true now.
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.
Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
You have misread his post completely!!! He has been arguing that Apple SHOULD pull out of countries which pass laws unfavorable to Apple, like the one that South Korea passed now. Almost, half of his posts in this forum are about this. And he has been ridiculed/ignored by many of the AI forum members for those comments. He strongly believes that Apple pulling out of a major market over unfavorable laws is inevitable and wants to see that happen sooner. His post in this thread was related to that.
You are 100% correct, friend. When I said, "I've been arguing for this for years" I was referring to the headline which said, "Pay up or GET OUT." I was calling on Apple to get out. I can see that you remember that "half my posts are about that." But in hindsight I should have resolved the pronoun that I used to prevent people from misunderstanding. I can see lots of people accused me of being on the other side of the argument. I guess I'm happy that finally there are a significant number of people calling on Apple to "get out." I suppose many of my 2000 posts were not written in vain.
Yes, many people misread your post. And that includes GatorGuy, who usually pays attention to who posts what.
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.
Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
No. As a developer, I feel I should not be limited to Apple's way of distributing apps to my users.
It's as simple as that. I won't use their infrastructure and they won't get any money from me (other than my developers subscription).
What about using the software development libraries you’ve been using all along to create apps? What if Apple decides they want their 30% for those going forward, but you can use your own payment gateway. Then if you want to avoid the 30% you simple need to develop your own SDK binaries, oh, and an OS that runs them all. Maybe Apple will even allow you to side load all that, after they finish suing you for any copyright infringement you create along the way.
Then they'd be stupid and would likely lose developers. I pay nothing for the various Windows SDKs that I use including the Win32 API and the various .Net frameworks. I have to pay for my development tools (like Visual Studio) through an MSN Pro subscription.
I guess all the Apple people don't realize that it's only in the Apple world that you have to pay to play. The Windows world has never been like that.
Exciting times. I've been arguing for this for years and that's why so many people hate me on this forum.
So you believe a developer has every right in the world to post their apps for free on the Apple App Store? Give me one legitimate reason why Apple should be required to host these apps for free. Apple doesn't charge for free apps but could start doing that if they wanted to. Apple could also start charging developers to even put their apps on the Apple App Store and if these stupid laws pass, I'm all for Apple doing that. There's no way anyone could force Apple to host things on their servers for free. It would be like me hosting your email server on my hardware, which I maintain, for free. Get a grip, I'd never do that and I doubt any company would do that. This shows how stupid these laws are.
Of course, if you want to have your own payment system, then be prepared for Apple to start charging you a hosting fee for every download and install of that app. That's only fair isn't it?
No. As a developer, I feel I should not be limited to Apple's way of distributing apps to my users.
It's as simple as that. I won't use their infrastructure and they won't get any money from me (other than my developers subscription).
You well pay for use of their server. And you well be kicked off if your app has malware.
Why would I use their server? My customers are able to download apps from my website and install them.
We are talking about iOS app store. Not the Mac app store.
What difference does that make? An app is an app. An iPhone or an iPad is just another type of computer.
The difference is the Mac isn’t locked down. You can download anything you want (provided you turn off Gatekeeper.) iOS has been locked down from day one.
Correct. iOS has been locked down since the beginning. There is no technical reason for it to be locked down. As I've stated in other posts, iPhones and iPads are just computers. Why should I have to get Apple's permission to install an app on the phone that I paid for?
Comments
There is no change that has zero effects.
Also, as long as you cannot side load apps you will have to go through their store which means using their infrastructure for at least showing up in the catalogue with description and images / movies. That’s what you may be charged for, then.
I guess all the Apple people don't realize that it's only in the Apple world that you have to pay to play. The Windows world has never been like that.