Germany wants Apple to offer iPhone updates and parts for 7 years

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 60
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,348administrator
    ivanh said:
    ivanh said:
    Not only updates, but also equal level and priority of services.  No planned obsolescence. No discrimination of older devices to access of services. Other nations in the world should follow Germany.
    There are features in hardware in newer chips than the A9 that Apple uses, and aren't available in the iPhone 6. So you're suggesting that these features not happen, because they can't be implemented in the iPhone 6?

    JFC_PA hit the nail on the head.

    What you want with feature parity is never going to happen. You're confusing the march of technology with "planned obsolescence" which you apply thickly whenever something happens that you don't like.


    Don’t forget that many newer features are already not available to older devices. E.g. Location services are not available to MacBook Pro 2011.  Besides, how come a few weeks before every new hardware /replacement devices/OS is coming up, the older device would run slower or even not working. e.g. Apple Watch series 2 / Nike watch don’t have weather info, sun rise, sunset since it’s not watchOS upgradable. 
    You buy ONLY the hardware, but Apple “give” you to use their software at their mercy? Are we slave?
    This bolded is an incredibly wrong statement.

    Between it, your "planned obsolescence" Fisher Price drum you keep beating, and your constant problems that nobody else seem to have like somehow getting burned by MagSafe in a phone that doesn't have Magsafe, or a more charitable interpretation of that, somehow getting burned by the Qi coil on an iPhone 11 that can't deliver power to what it's sitting on, I'm not sure what to think.

    Developers, including Apple, aren't beholden to keeping anything running on older devices, and they shouldn't be forced to.
    edited September 2021 StrangeDaysGeorgeBMacFidonet127Dogpersonmacxpresswatto_cobramaximarakillroy
  • Reply 42 of 60
    tommikele said:
    Lots of gloating about how this isn't a problem for Apple and how Android  manufacturers will suffer. The haha syndrome. Do you only care because your beloved Apple is unlikely to be affected?

    The real issue is more government regulation and more distortion of free markets. What's the next thing they mandate?
    This is an Apple website, deal with it. As is you just sound butthurt.

    Govt regulation for environmental standards is fine. Maybe you haven’t noticed but the world is on fire, being flooded, or melting due to a generations-long lack of regulation or concern for energy and environment initiatives. Long overdue. The “free market!” did nothing to help the situation and arguably just made it worse by only implementing energy conservation technology when required to do so,
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 60
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,791member
    ivanh said:
    ivanh said:
    Not only updates, but also equal level and priority of services.  No planned obsolescence. No discrimination of older devices to access of services. Other nations in the world should follow Germany.
    There are features in hardware in newer chips than the A9 that Apple uses, and aren't available in the iPhone 6. So you're suggesting that these features not happen, because they can't be implemented in the iPhone 6?

    JFC_PA hit the nail on the head.

    What you want with feature parity is never going to happen. You're confusing the march of technology with "planned obsolescence" which you apply thickly whenever something happens that you don't like.


    Don’t forget that many newer features are already not available to older devices. E.g. Location services are not available to MacBook Pro 2011.  Besides, how come a few weeks before every new hardware /replacement devices/OS is coming up, the older device would run slower or even not working. e.g. Apple Watch series 2 / Nike watch don’t have weather info, sun rise, sunset since it’s not watchOS upgradable. 
    You buy ONLY the hardware, but Apple “give” you to use their software at their mercy? Are we slave?
    This bolded is an incredibly wrong statement.

    Between it, your "planned obsolescence" Fisher Price drum you keep beating, and your constant problems that nobody else seem to have like somehow getting burned by MagSafe in a phone that doesn't have Magsafe, or a more charitable interpretation of that, somehow getting burned by the Qi coil on an iPhone 11 that can't deliver power to what it's sitting on, I'm not sure what to think.

    Developers, including Apple, aren't beholden to keeping anything running on older devices, and they shouldn't be forced to.
    I think it’s also about some having absurd expectations.  Consumer electronics/appliances don’t last decades.  If they do make it into the second decade, there’s no reason to think they’d be supported or should do what newer devices do. In tech, Apple’s 7 year obsolescence policy is an eternity.  I have a 2009 MacBook Pro that is still running but with quite a bit of effort. I also can’t do that much with it. In 2016, I bought a mid-2015 MacBook Pro that is now starting to get a little bit long in the tooth.  It’s still fine, but the thing is 5 to 6 years old.  It’s what I expect.  As for phones, I get a new one at least every two years.  Anything more than 3-4 is unusual in my view.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 60
    rcfa said:
    ivanh said:
    Not only updates, but also equal level and priority of services.  No planned obsolescence. No discrimination of older devices to access of services. Other nations in the world should follow Germany.
    There are features in hardware in newer chips than the A9 that Apple uses, and aren't available in the iPhone 6. So you're suggesting that these features not happen, because they can't be implemented in the iPhone 6?

    JFC_PA hit the nail on the head.

    What you want with feature parity is never going to happen. You're confusing the march of technology with "planned obsolescence" which you apply thickly whenever something happens that you don't like.
    Access to dotMac nee moblieMe nee iCloud wasn’t a matter of hardware functionality, but of iOS versions, where access to new cloud services wasn’t back-ported to old versions of iOS, nor were new versions of the OS brought to older hardware.

    Similar issues are regularly introduced, like the tagging functionality in Notes in the latest iOS version, which will break compatibility with any device that can’t be upgraded. So you either have to hold back all your devices, or toss some old ones which otherwise would be working just fine.
    Over the years Apple people have explained why some devices couldn’t get updates or new features, and it’s always about quality experience. The explanations have been reasonable and they’ve long ago earned trust. Your alternative suggestion that they’re twirling their waxed mustaches just to screw people is paranoid nonsense.  
    Fidonet127macxpressradarthekatwatto_cobramaximara
  • Reply 45 of 60
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,024member
    avon b7 said:
    dewme said:
    This will likely drive prices of new devices way up because the manufacturer will have to stockpile spare parts as part of the production runs. Military system procurements typically have similar provisions for spare parts and it’s one of the contributors to the acquisition and lifetime costs of these systems being so expensive. All of thetemese parts need to be stored and maintained in an inventory management system. The folks who make automated warehouses will be absolutely thrilled at the prospect of these proposals spreading worldwide.

    From a pragmatic standpoint, i.e., volume of landfill required for disposal for my personal e-waste, putting tight restrictions of smartphones makes little sense. The average service life of a standard refrigerator is 14 years. I’d bet you that I could fit many more than 14 dead iPhones and their chargers and cables in a standard sized dead refrigerator. 

    I wonder what’s really behind these heavy handed incursions by politicians into the inner workings of the tech world. I realize that smartphones have become a de facto appendage for a large percentage of the population so they get a ton of attention. These devices even include all of the mechanisms needed to complain about their shortcomings, like phone, text, email, and access social media. Has there ever been a product that includes its own built-in complaints department?

    I also think there is a move afoot by politicians/power brokers to put the tech companies “in their place.” The power balance is badly askew from the political perspective. The people who see themselves as the holders of authority and power want what they view as their rightful place in maintaining the herd back under their control. They want to control both the message and the messenger, and the tech companies have, in their minds, been playing too fast and loose with allowing other messengers to exist.
    Remember that in the EU absolutely no e-waste should go to landfill.

    It is technically illegal in my part of the world to dump e-waste in a landfill container. 

    Whenever you purchase any type of electrical appliance you can hand over your old appliance without charge. 

    In fact, the cost of recycling or safe disposal is already included (and has been for many years now) in the price of consumer electrical and electronic goods sold in the EU. 

    To give my 'out in the sticks' location as an example, we have bins for plastics/metals, paper, glass, landfill, oil, organic waste and clothes. There are bins in all pharmacies for expired or unwanted medication. 

    There is an out-of-town triage plant for basically anything that doesn't have a bin for it. There is a mobile trailer once a week for people without transport options plus 'micro' triage stations built into advertising stands on the street for batteries, phones etc. 

    An example of a micro station:

    https://www.blipvert.es/en/minipuntos-limpos-de-marin-nueve-anos-reciclando-la-otra-basura/

    For voluminous items like furniture, mattresses, hedge/garden cuttings etc you simply call the local council, they will give you a date to take your waste down into the street and within hours someone will come to take it away. There is no charge. 

    Component logistics has not been an issue for many years. As I said before, some companies have had long term commitments to component availability and repairability for years. 

    https://www.rowenta.com/repairability-page

    And although not an electrical supplier, Geberit has had its 25 year parts availability commitment for as long as I can remember

    https://www.geberit.co.uk/services/product-warranty/

    Amazon has taken logistics to a new level and aren't alone. 5G will take the entire field of distribution to yet another level. 

    I can get replacement O-rings for my Grohe shower unit literally made to order and shipped to me. Zero storage. 

    Now Amazon has 'bag' return points where you can package a return in a simple bag (no box) to increase the amount of product that can be returned in a van as well as cut down on paper waste. 

    Where there is a will, there is a way even if the will comes from regulatory pressure. 




    Sounds like the EU has a pretty good system in place. At least where I live in the US, the collection, management, and recycling of "stuff people no longer want" is a mix of public and private agencies. I have access to a household hazardous waste and e-waste recycling center at the county level that is open a few days per week for drop-off, only one day of which is designated for household hazardous waste. Some localities, city, village, etc., will pick up certain appliances and waste from residents as long as the appliances meet certain criteria, like no Freon remaining in refrigerators. Occasionally, the power company will offer incentives, like $50 to take away older and inefficient refrigerators. Hazardous waste pickup at individual residential properties only happens once per year where I live. Yep.

    But for the most part, if you no longer want something, you have to pay someone to haul it away, and if you want to actively engage in recycling behaviors you have to pay extra to do so. I have to pay extra to have a recycling container that's serviced by the village I live in, but they will gladly let me throw all of my recyclable materials in the trash container that's headed to a privately operated landfill in another part of the state. I can also take it myself to a contracted recycling drop-off site equipped with labeled bins. The problem of course is that the recycling site and bins are often filled with non-recyclable materials that people simply dump in the bins or on the ground next to the bins from their cars/trucks.

    What actually happens to the large volume of "recycled" items in the US is kind of a mystery. I'm sure if we were to look very closely at the disposition of waste, including e-waste, we'd see a lot of it hitting landfills or being packed up into shipping containers and shipped to foreign countries. Some of the countries that have been accepting shiploads of US recyclable waste have been backing away from accepting any more because the enforcement of what is deemed to be recyclable is so poorly controlled in the US. Ultimately it simply ends up in landfills in other countries. Hopefully, the EU isn't doing the same thing, i.e., exporting their waste to other regions and countries.

    As you said, the cost of recycling (and all lifecycle costs including repair parts and spares) should be factored in the acquisition costs of products. Unfortunately, in many parts of the world, and especially in the US, doing this has always been an extremely tough sell.  



    watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 60
    rcfa said:
    Well at least this idea isn’t as bad as the third party App Store idea, where you would have viruses and and bad apps harming consumers. Because without the Walled Garden, how could Apple differentiate themselves from Android Devices. Android phones already look just like iPhones and Apple can’t do anything about it. 
    Second, instead of doing CSAM scanning, Apple could scan apps, regardless of origin, for malware.

    Third, while Apple obviously has the right to decide what kind of apps it wants to sell in an Apple-branded AppStore, it doesn’t have the right to decide what kind of apps owners of a device may run on a device which they bought and own. Sony can decide which movies to produce in Sony-owned movie studios, but they don’t get to decide what movies or videos you’re allowed to watch on a Sony branded TV..
    Apple, Google, Microsoft, Dropbox, et al already do server-side CSAM scanning, and have for years. You just didn’t know it until now.

    https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2020/01/09/apples-scanning-icloud-photos-for-child-abuse-images/ ;

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna

    https://protectingchildren.google/intl/en/

    As for hardware platforms — you’re suggesting that Sony, Nintendo, and Xbox should have no ability to restrict software that runs on their platforms, yet this is an accepted limitation placed by the builders of those platforms. Yet they do.

    Fidonet127radarthekat
  • Reply 47 of 60
    ivanh said:
    ivanh said:
    Not only updates, but also equal level and priority of services.  No planned obsolescence. No discrimination of older devices to access of services. Other nations in the world should follow Germany.
    There are features in hardware in newer chips than the A9 that Apple uses, and aren't available in the iPhone 6. So you're suggesting that these features not happen, because they can't be implemented in the iPhone 6?

    JFC_PA hit the nail on the head.

    What you want with feature parity is never going to happen. You're confusing the march of technology with "planned obsolescence" which you apply thickly whenever something happens that you don't like.
    Don’t forget that many newer features are already not available to older devices. E.g. Location services are not available to MacBook Pro 2011.  Besides, how come a few weeks before every new hardware /replacement devices/OS is coming up, the older device would run slower or even not working. e.g. Apple Watch series 2 / Nike watch don’t have weather info, sun rise, sunset since it’s not watchOS upgradable. 

    You buy ONLY the hardware, but Apple “give” you to use their software at their mercy? Are we slave?
    Yeah no, that’s just paranoid nonsense — Apple isn’t slowing down devices weeks before a new hardware announcement… You’ve just burned any credibility your account may have had, which wasn’t much. As for software updates, when they are tied to hardware it’s for valid reasons. When they are not tied to hardware, we see them longer than the rest of the industry. My Macs and iOS devices have way longer useful lifespans than my crummy Windows machines every did. Folks here were noting 7 years of security updates.

    Your posts are either entirely ignorant of reality or just trolling. 


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 60
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,144member
    sdw2001 said:
    My first thought was that I think it’s overreach to mandate this.  But it’s Germany and the EU, so I’m not surprised.  The thing that made me laugh is the proposed rule requiring parts to arrive in 5 days.  This is what big government does.  Instead of reasonable rules and letting the free market sort most of it out, they pass Byzantine regs that don’t benefit anyone and make everything more expensive.  This would be like my state requiring 2-3 day shipping on retail products over $100 (or along those lines).  

    When it comes to obsolescence and even right to repair, the market generally does a better job fixing this than government.  Apple products, for example, would not be as popular as they are if they didn’t last as long as they do.  When Apple institutes dumb controversial or dumb policy, they hear about it and often change (see: CSAM).  

    Another Libertarian rant about Big Bad Government and how unregulated, free markets are everybody's friend...   Yawn...
  • Reply 49 of 60
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,739member
    ivanh said:
    Not only updates, but also equal level and priority of services.  No planned obsolescence. No discrimination of older devices to access of services. Other nations in the world should follow Germany.
    You are  a perfect candidate for becoming a devoted Trump supporter. Make up some nonsensical bullshit and present it as fact. Then keep repeating the bullshit in hopes of some starting to believe it. Then act incensed when someone calls you on the bullshit. Lather, rinse, repeat. 
    Dogpersonmacxpresswatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 60
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,144member
    mushmash said:
    This is a proposal from people whom do not understand consumer electronics or economics.   Who in the world would want to repair a 7, 6 or even 5 year old phone or tablet?  The repair cost would exceed the device value or at best be a wash.  Typical European government wanting to interfere with the free market - the nanny state always goes too far.   Do these “geniuses” ever think that maybe one could buy a used 6 year old phone or tablet for a lot less than it would take to repair the same device.  This is a brain dead proposal from the Germans.  
    Well, half the point here is that the parts should be offered at a reasonable price.

    Believe it or not but there are lots of "less fortunate" people in europe, AND the US, who would prefer to spend $50 repairing their current device over spending $100 on a similar device.

    I get your point, but I also get the germans. I'm sure it'll benefit everyone in the end.

    All true...  But, it could push Apple to make their products even less repairable and more disposable than they already are.
    "Unintended Consequences".
  • Reply 51 of 60
    cpsro said:
    igorsky said:
    F**k off, Germany. How about all German car companies start offering 7 year warranties?
    It would be nice if they bought back their stinking diesel cars, too.
    Well, it's true that this diesel cars broke the law, but regarding to emissions these cars are still better than most US cars...
  • Reply 52 of 60
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,004member
    dewme said:
    avon b7 said:
    dewme said:
    This will likely drive prices of new devices way up because the manufacturer will have to stockpile spare parts as part of the production runs. Military system procurements typically have similar provisions for spare parts and it’s one of the contributors to the acquisition and lifetime costs of these systems being so expensive. All of thetemese parts need to be stored and maintained in an inventory management system. The folks who make automated warehouses will be absolutely thrilled at the prospect of these proposals spreading worldwide.

    From a pragmatic standpoint, i.e., volume of landfill required for disposal for my personal e-waste, putting tight restrictions of smartphones makes little sense. The average service life of a standard refrigerator is 14 years. I’d bet you that I could fit many more than 14 dead iPhones and their chargers and cables in a standard sized dead refrigerator. 

    I wonder what’s really behind these heavy handed incursions by politicians into the inner workings of the tech world. I realize that smartphones have become a de facto appendage for a large percentage of the population so they get a ton of attention. These devices even include all of the mechanisms needed to complain about their shortcomings, like phone, text, email, and access social media. Has there ever been a product that includes its own built-in complaints department?

    I also think there is a move afoot by politicians/power brokers to put the tech companies “in their place.” The power balance is badly askew from the political perspective. The people who see themselves as the holders of authority and power want what they view as their rightful place in maintaining the herd back under their control. They want to control both the message and the messenger, and the tech companies have, in their minds, been playing too fast and loose with allowing other messengers to exist.
    Remember that in the EU absolutely no e-waste should go to landfill.

    It is technically illegal in my part of the world to dump e-waste in a landfill container. 

    Whenever you purchase any type of electrical appliance you can hand over your old appliance without charge. 

    In fact, the cost of recycling or safe disposal is already included (and has been for many years now) in the price of consumer electrical and electronic goods sold in the EU. 

    To give my 'out in the sticks' location as an example, we have bins for plastics/metals, paper, glass, landfill, oil, organic waste and clothes. There are bins in all pharmacies for expired or unwanted medication. 

    There is an out-of-town triage plant for basically anything that doesn't have a bin for it. There is a mobile trailer once a week for people without transport options plus 'micro' triage stations built into advertising stands on the street for batteries, phones etc. 

    An example of a micro station:

    https://www.blipvert.es/en/minipuntos-limpos-de-marin-nueve-anos-reciclando-la-otra-basura/

    For voluminous items like furniture, mattresses, hedge/garden cuttings etc you simply call the local council, they will give you a date to take your waste down into the street and within hours someone will come to take it away. There is no charge. 

    Component logistics has not been an issue for many years. As I said before, some companies have had long term commitments to component availability and repairability for years. 

    https://www.rowenta.com/repairability-page

    And although not an electrical supplier, Geberit has had its 25 year parts availability commitment for as long as I can remember

    https://www.geberit.co.uk/services/product-warranty/

    Amazon has taken logistics to a new level and aren't alone. 5G will take the entire field of distribution to yet another level. 

    I can get replacement O-rings for my Grohe shower unit literally made to order and shipped to me. Zero storage. 

    Now Amazon has 'bag' return points where you can package a return in a simple bag (no box) to increase the amount of product that can be returned in a van as well as cut down on paper waste. 

    Where there is a will, there is a way even if the will comes from regulatory pressure. 




    Sounds like the EU has a pretty good system in place. At least where I live in the US, the collection, management, and recycling of "stuff people no longer want" is a mix of public and private agencies. I have access to a household hazardous waste and e-waste recycling center at the county level that is open a few days per week for drop-off, only one day of which is designated for household hazardous waste. Some localities, city, village, etc., will pick up certain appliances and waste from residents as long as the appliances meet certain criteria, like no Freon remaining in refrigerators. Occasionally, the power company will offer incentives, like $50 to take away older and inefficient refrigerators. Hazardous waste pickup at individual residential properties only happens once per year where I live. Yep.

    But for the most part, if you no longer want something, you have to pay someone to haul it away, and if you want to actively engage in recycling behaviors you have to pay extra to do so. I have to pay extra to have a recycling container that's serviced by the village I live in, but they will gladly let me throw all of my recyclable materials in the trash container that's headed to a privately operated landfill in another part of the state. I can also take it myself to a contracted recycling drop-off site equipped with labeled bins. The problem of course is that the recycling site and bins are often filled with non-recyclable materials that people simply dump in the bins or on the ground next to the bins from their cars/trucks.

    What actually happens to the large volume of "recycled" items in the US is kind of a mystery. I'm sure if we were to look very closely at the disposition of waste, including e-waste, we'd see a lot of it hitting landfills or being packed up into shipping containers and shipped to foreign countries. Some of the countries that have been accepting shiploads of US recyclable waste have been backing away from accepting any more because the enforcement of what is deemed to be recyclable is so poorly controlled in the US. Ultimately it simply ends up in landfills in other countries. Hopefully, the EU isn't doing the same thing, i.e., exporting their waste to other regions and countries.

    As you said, the cost of recycling (and all lifecycle costs including repair parts and spares) should be factored in the acquisition costs of products. Unfortunately, in many parts of the world, and especially in the US, doing this has always been an extremely tough sell.  



    There is fraud here but if legislation is in place and accountability, transparency, and enforcement etc are enacted in the correct manner, it means things are at least moving in the right direction.

    There are groups which place trackers within products and send them off for recycling or safe disposal and then produce reports of how much ended 'outside the law' (in Africa or Asia etc). 

    We recently heard about Amazon destroying goods but Amazon has a WEEE statement on its web:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GTF8EBR5DXBTVJJ8

    I was involved in the early draft proposals of WEEE (translation tasks) and there were some very severe requirements put on the table. Some proposals basically told industry that 'no' wouldn't be accepted as a answer to some of them. If solutions weren't available, they had to be created.

    In the end, some requirements were watered down but WEEE and RoHS were important directives and the EU has done a decent job of trying tackle the problem.

    These German proposals are basically part of a general idea that this is a problem which is part of another problem and it needs to be addressed at various levels and from different angles. Consumer protection and the environment being two important pillars.

    There is still a lot of work to be done but at least things have been moving in the right direction. 




  • Reply 53 of 60
    This creates a barrier of entry for any new startup.  Government creates monopolies with their own ignorance.
    lkruppwatto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 60
    tommikele said:
    Lots of gloating about how this isn't a problem for Apple and how Android  manufacturers will suffer. The haha syndrome. Do you only care because your beloved Apple is unlikely to be affected?

    The real issue is more government regulation and more distortion of free markets. What's the next thing they mandate?
    There is no 'FREE' MARKET  - a market as defined - is a regulated market. Regulated by a third party, usually with the greater interest as part of the consideration. Private companies have the PROFIT interest. We very much need markets to be guided by more than PROFIT. I appreciate your concern with 'government' regulation, but who do you want regulating the market, which by definition needs rules/regulation? The largest private company? Sensible regulation is what makes markets work. We can argue about what is sensible ETC but that's part of the discussion, and in ones life we may come to different conclusions at different times. But the need to a regulated market is a given.
    edited September 2021 radarthekatwatto_cobramuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 55 of 60
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,226member
    igorsky said:
    F**k off, Germany. How about all German car companies start offering 7 year warranties?
    That would hurt GERMAN companies and that is NOT their goal. But you knew that:-)
  • Reply 56 of 60
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,226member
    tommikele said:
    Lots of gloating about how this isn't a problem for Apple and how Android  manufacturers will suffer. The haha syndrome. Do you only care because your beloved Apple is unlikely to be affected?

    The real issue is more government regulation and more distortion of free markets. What's the next thing they mandate?
    There is no 'FREE' MARKET  - a market as defined - is a regulated market. Regulated by a third party, usually with the greater interest as part of the consideration. Private companies have the PROFIT interest. We very much need markets to be guided by more than PROFIT. I appreciate your concern with 'government' regulation, but who do you want regulating the market, which by definition needs rules/regulation? The largest private company? Sensible regulation is what makes markets work. We can argue about what is sensible ETC but that's part of the discussion, and in ones life we may come to different conclusions at different times. But the need to a regulated market is a given.
     but who do you want regulating the market, which by definition needs rules/regulation?”

    How about millions of consumers making a choice?

    Private companies have the PROFIT interest. We very much need markets to be guided by more than PROFIT.”

    I can’t disagree with you more on this narrow minded, self serving mindset.
  • Reply 57 of 60
    Ivanh and gGermany don’t go far enough.  That’s no way to save the world. Germany should make manufacturers like Apple support their products forever.  My great great great grandchildren, if I should ever get any, should be able to replace the battery on my iPhone for a very low fee.

    for that matter, the wireless carriers could be forced to support 3G forever.  And why not have the auto makers support internal combustion engines forever too.  Hmm.  Maybe they need to think this one through. 
  • Reply 58 of 60
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,014member
    steven n. said:
    tommikele said:
    Lots of gloating about how this isn't a problem for Apple and how Android  manufacturers will suffer. The haha syndrome. Do you only care because your beloved Apple is unlikely to be affected?

    The real issue is more government regulation and more distortion of free markets. What's the next thing they mandate?
    There is no 'FREE' MARKET  - a market as defined - is a regulated market. Regulated by a third party, usually with the greater interest as part of the consideration. Private companies have the PROFIT interest. We very much need markets to be guided by more than PROFIT. I appreciate your concern with 'government' regulation, but who do you want regulating the market, which by definition needs rules/regulation? The largest private company? Sensible regulation is what makes markets work. We can argue about what is sensible ETC but that's part of the discussion, and in ones life we may come to different conclusions at different times. But the need to a regulated market is a given.
    “ but who do you want regulating the market, which by definition needs rules/regulation?”

    How about millions of consumers making a choice?

    ”Private companies have the PROFIT interest. We very much need markets to be guided by more than PROFIT.”

    I can’t disagree with you more on this narrow minded, self serving mindset.
    Half the people on here who bitch about companies making profits are shareholders themselves, myself included. So yeah, make a profit please. 
    edited September 2021
  • Reply 59 of 60
    This is a proposal from people whom do not understand consumer electronics or economics.   Who in the world would want to repair a 7, 6 or even 5 year old phone or tablet?  The repair cost would exceed the device value or at best be a wash.
    The same geniuses that want to keep Windows XP (a 20 year old OS in 2021) hardware going because they don't want to fork out the money to upgrade their antiquated ATMs or ask how they can run 16-bit code on Windows 10.

    It boils down to the sunk cost fallacy.  My late father had this issue; putting more money into an old car than it was worth.  A neighbor would later say if he had known my father would do that he wouldn't have sold him the car (it was meant as a beater)
    edited September 2021
  • Reply 60 of 60
    This is a proposal from people whom do not understand consumer electronics or economics.   Who in the world would want to repair a 7, 6 or even 5 year old phone or tablet?  The repair cost would exceed the device value or at best be a wash.  Typical European government wanting to interfere with the free market - the nanny state always goes too far.   Do these “geniuses” ever think that maybe one could buy a used 6 year old phone or tablet for a lot less than it would take to repair the same device.  This is a brain dead proposal from the Germans.  
    Yes and no.  My extended family has a tradition of passing down old hardware.  Parents to kids, kids to cousins, cousins to extended friends and family, and so forth.  Not everyone has money to replace hardware regularly and kids in particular get stuck with very old hardware.  (iPhone 4/5 era)  Everyone is happy to get an upgrade, but by the time the phones get to their 3rd or 4th owners, the batteries aren't always doing their best.  Occasionally, a busted screen ends the chain early.  Reasonably priced replacement parts available for 5-7 years is just what is needed to keep a tradition like this going.
    muthuk_vanalingam
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