Epic asks Apple to reinstate developer account so it can re-release 'Fortnite' in Korea [u...

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  • Reply 21 of 30
    croprcropr Posts: 1,078member
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Every developer has to pay an annual fee of $99 to have access to these APIs.   So basically you would be correct if Fortnite would not willing to pay this fee, but I have not seen any indication this is the case.
    edited September 2021 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 22 of 30
    roake said:
    maestro64 said:
    Hasn't epic heard they can now set up their own store in Korea and sell at whatever price they like.
    Yes that’s why they are asking Apple to reinstate them so they can sell in the South Korean market . So unless Apple is able to make a legal case against the law they either have to reinstate Epic or leave the South Korean market.
    As I understand it, Apple is under no obligation whatsoever to restate Epic’s account regardless of the law in South Korea.  The new Korean law doesn’t force Apple to give developer accounts to anyone.  It only has to do with the degree of certain types of control Apple has over apps that are published on iOS in that market.

    Epic is making this request only to create noise around it’s case.  Epic knew before they asked that Apple would say no.
    That’s what they’ll be testing. My guess is once Apple officially notifies Epic that they won’t reinstate them so they can do business in South Korea, Epic will file suit in South Korea. Then a court there will determine if Apple’s rationale allows them to circumvent the new law.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 30
    I realize this is just a sort of news-aggregation article, which is fine, thank you, but it would have been very useful for the author (when the update to the article was posted) to have spent the time to find out when the new law does actually go into effect. 

    Then we could have a better sense of just how much of a stunt this request from Epic is, given that they just have to wait until the law goes into effect to see what they’re going to get out of it. It’s a virtual certainty they will move the goalposts as soon as Apple does anything, because this law, as I understand it, doesn’t give Epic (or Sweeney, at least) what it (he) wants.

    The most interesting aspect of it will be to see if Apple implements the compliance worldwide or just in South Korea. If it were me (it is not), I think I’d opt for worldwide, to try to head off a situation where every country has a different set of rules that I have to comply with. So I’ll make this concession now, but fight laws that go beyond it later on. I’d sit down now and decide where I’m going to draw that line going forward. 
    edited September 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 30
    leehericks said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    Well, Epic has already shot itself in the foot. Pulling Unreal Engine would be just cutting off their feet. There are still other engines such as Unity and Cocos2D. I doubt people buy an iPhone for serious gaming.
    crowley said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    Both of these arguments are silly. Apple won’t block Epic out of spite and Epic won’t pull iOS and macOS support out of spite or retaliation either. 

    Neither wants to throw away revenue.  Armchair critics seems to think running a company is like being head of a clique in a junior school playground.
    genovelle said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    It would be kind of hard for Epic to threaten Apple with something that Apple was about to do when Epic pleaded with the court to stop them. Epic is dependent on Apple tech to make their Engine work so, those developers should have focused on working directly with Apple instead of the snake oil salesman at Epic. 
    sflocal said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    I don't think Apple would even blink if Epic pulled unreal from iOS or MacOS.  Then again, it would damage Epic more than Apple.
    flydog said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    Yeah that would make zero sense since Epic would lose even more revenue, and only piss off their own customers. 

    Good thing you're not actually running a company and making big boy decisions that affect employees, customers, and shareholders.

    Y'all are taking my comment too literally. I was making light of the comments that suggest Apple should just revoke all of Epic's developer licenses, and how silly that sounds especially if you apply the same kind of thinking to the opposite side. As I said, it's in nobody's interest. I'm NOT making any suggestion that either side should do these things, of course they're absurd ideas — that's the point.

    Also, anyone suggesting developers should just move to another game engine doesn't understand how cross-platform development and publishing works.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 30
    Tim should go to Epic's HQ and recreate the famous picture of Steve at IBM's HQ.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 30
    maestro64 said:
    Hasn't epic heard they can now set up their own store in Korea and sell at whatever price they like.
    Yes that’s why they are asking Apple to reinstate them so they can sell in the South Korean market . So unless Apple is able to make a legal case against the law they either have to reinstate Epic or leave the South Korean market.
    Really? I doubt the law forces Apple to allow any particular product into their store. 
  • Reply 27 of 30
    danoxdanox Posts: 1,065member
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.

    Epic along with Stream are already a walking dead men, Apple up until this point has paid lip service to games and gaming engines, however Apple like CPU’S before will write/engineer/design Unreal and Stream out don’t poke the Bear…..

    Now that Apple has a in house cpu there is no reason to hold back, Stream in the background probably is saying shut up.
    edited September 2021
  • Reply 28 of 30
    danoxdanox Posts: 1,065member
    leehericks said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    Well, Epic has already shot itself in the foot. Pulling Unreal Engine would be just cutting off their feet. There are still other engines such as Unity and Cocos2D. I doubt people buy an iPhone for serious gaming.
    crowley said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    Both of these arguments are silly. Apple won’t block Epic out of spite and Epic won’t pull iOS and macOS support out of spite or retaliation either. 

    Neither wants to throw away revenue.  Armchair critics seems to think running a company is like being head of a clique in a junior school playground.
    genovelle said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    It would be kind of hard for Epic to threaten Apple with something that Apple was about to do when Epic pleaded with the court to stop them. Epic is dependent on Apple tech to make their Engine work so, those developers should have focused on working directly with Apple instead of the snake oil salesman at Epic. 
    sflocal said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    I don't think Apple would even blink if Epic pulled unreal from iOS or MacOS.  Then again, it would damage Epic more than Apple.
    flydog said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    Yeah that would make zero sense since Epic would lose even more revenue, and only piss off their own customers. 

    Good thing you're not actually running a company and making big boy decisions that affect employees, customers, and shareholders.

    Y'all are taking my comment too literally. I was making light of the comments that suggest Apple should just revoke all of Epic's developer licenses, and how silly that sounds especially if you apply the same kind of thinking to the opposite side. As I said, it's in nobody's interest. I'm NOT making any suggestion that either side should do these things, of course they're absurd ideas — that's the point.

    Also, anyone suggesting developers should just move to another game engine doesn't understand how cross-platform development and publishing works.

    True but Apple has up until this point left this market alone, I don’t think Apple will anymore and what Apple does in the future won’t make Epic, Stream and others happy…..Poking the bear will not help Epic long term.
    edited September 2021
  • Reply 29 of 30
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,254member
    danox said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.

    Epic along with Stream are already a walking dead men, Apple up until this point has paid lip service to games and gaming engines, however Apple like CPU’S before will write/engineer/design Unreal and Stream out don’t poke the Bear…..

    Now that Apple has a in house cpu there is no reason to hold back, Stream in the background probably is saying shut up.
    Stream?  Do you mean Steam?

    What has a CPU got to do with a game store or a game engine?  

    Apple's App Store can't touch Steam for game library and infrastructure and it would need a massive work to get close.  Steam does a lot more than present a storefront and charge 30%.

    Apple don't have anything to compete with Unreal Engine.  Hell, Unreal Engine is even leaving a lot of other established players in the dust with UE5.  Apple would take a decade or more to catch up with where Epic are now.

    Neither Apple's efforts in store, community or game engine are in anyway advantaged by them having their own CPU/GPU.
    fastasleepmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 30 of 30
    danox said:
    leehericks said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    Well, Epic has already shot itself in the foot. Pulling Unreal Engine would be just cutting off their feet. There are still other engines such as Unity and Cocos2D. I doubt people buy an iPhone for serious gaming.
    crowley said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    Both of these arguments are silly. Apple won’t block Epic out of spite and Epic won’t pull iOS and macOS support out of spite or retaliation either. 

    Neither wants to throw away revenue.  Armchair critics seems to think running a company is like being head of a clique in a junior school playground.
    genovelle said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    It would be kind of hard for Epic to threaten Apple with something that Apple was about to do when Epic pleaded with the court to stop them. Epic is dependent on Apple tech to make their Engine work so, those developers should have focused on working directly with Apple instead of the snake oil salesman at Epic. 
    sflocal said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    I don't think Apple would even blink if Epic pulled unreal from iOS or MacOS.  Then again, it would damage Epic more than Apple.
    flydog said:
    fastasleep said:
    B-Mc-C said:
    They’re using Apple’s intellectual property (thousands of APIs) to build their app. These are not open source to my knowledge and are likely licensed to them under Apple’s terms. Apple spends a boatload of money developing all of these “building blocks.” If they decide they don’t want someone using their licensed software, especially someone who is not paying for it, then so be it. Just my opinion.
    Apple should just revoke their developer license permanently and move on. Apple's property, Apple's choice. Let Epic go on to enjoy 100% commitment to Android.
    At which point Epic can decide to pull iOS support from Unreal Engine, cutting out a massive segment of the iOS/iPadOS gaming market, or worse, kill Unreal Engine for macOS and destroy a large segment of the 3D market. Nobody wants that, but just saying at some point this war needs to end and its in everyone's — even outside of Apple and Epic — that it doesn't result in those kinds of casualties.
    Yeah that would make zero sense since Epic would lose even more revenue, and only piss off their own customers. 

    Good thing you're not actually running a company and making big boy decisions that affect employees, customers, and shareholders.

    Y'all are taking my comment too literally. I was making light of the comments that suggest Apple should just revoke all of Epic's developer licenses, and how silly that sounds especially if you apply the same kind of thinking to the opposite side. As I said, it's in nobody's interest. I'm NOT making any suggestion that either side should do these things, of course they're absurd ideas — that's the point.

    Also, anyone suggesting developers should just move to another game engine doesn't understand how cross-platform development and publishing works.

    True but Apple has up until this point left this market alone, I don’t think Apple will anymore and what Apple does in the future won’t make Epic, Stream and others happy…..Poking the bear will not help Epic long term.
    What on earth are you talking about? Stream? Do you mean Steam? Because that's just a game store, not an engine. As far as Epic goes, Apple's not going to develop an Unreal Engine competitor. Why would they?
    muthuk_vanalingam
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