My understanding is Russia threaten to arrest and prosecute Apple and Google’s employees who work in Russia if they didn’t remove the apps. Extortion in my book.
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
I said nothing about invoking American law on Russians, all I said is that Apple is all about making a statement when it’s in their interest political or monetary interest. They want global equality but not at the cost of their profits. Truth.
As I said, "Free Speech" is an American concept -- and law. Which you criticized Apple for not upholding in Russia -- which is what I was responding to.
Further: I think you may be confusing obeying local laws with "political or monetary interest".
... Few countries, even democracies, carry freedom as far as the U.S. is doing these days.
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
Apple only needs to obey the law of the country they are operating in. And, it must.
Ideals and values expressed by different countries, organizations and even Apple itself are 'merely' guidelines and goal posts. They are important. But the law takes precedence
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
Apple aren't failing in their self professed goals and policies unless the UN passes a resolution against them? Don't be absurd. I don't think you have the foggiest clue what you're talking about.
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
Apple aren't failing in their self professed goals and policies unless the UN passes a resolution against them? Don't be absurd. I don't think you have the foggiest clue what you're talking about.
I understand Apple's logic much better than you. Apple said it follows UN declaration of human rights. Many people or organizations said Russia violated it. But that were based on these people or organization 'interpretation' of UN human rights declaration. Their argument may be false. Only UN has the right to declare whether Russia violated its declaration. Then Apple has to follow UN resolution to boycott Russia. Otherwise Apple will be truly eating its own words.
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
Apple aren't failing in their self professed goals and policies unless the UN passes a resolution against them? Don't be absurd. I don't think you have the foggiest clue what you're talking about.
I understand Apple's logic much better than you. Apple said it follows UN declaration of human rights. Many people or organizations said Russia violated it. But that were based on these people or organization 'interpretation' of UN human rights declaration. Their argument may be false. Only UN has the right to declare whether Russia violated its declaration. Then Apple has to follow UN resolution to boycott Russia. Otherwise Apple will be truly eating its own words.
Patent nonsense. Anyone and everyone has the right to declare that Russia are messing around, and that Apple should aim higher, and if Apple want to be taken seriously they should keep an ear on that. You seem to have mistaken a conversation on an Apple message board for a courtroom drama.
Also the UN does not routinely do what you say they need to do, comment on an individual company’s actions that follow the law.
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
In all honesty the organization is set up to fail. Tricky, tricky Waveparticle.
You are being tricky without knowing it. Why the 39 countries do not include any Muslim country like Turkey?
I don't know, but it could be as simple as not throwing stones when they live in glass houses of their own. Why do you think Turkey didn't join in? I do know that Turkey has voiced their concerns with China over the treatment of the Uighur Muslims.
Second, would that have kept China from vetoing any action on a binding resolution over human rights?
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
In all honesty the organization is set up to fail. Tricky, tricky Waveparticle.
You are being tricky without knowing it. Why the 39 countries do not include any Muslim country like Turkey?
I don't know, but it could be as simple as not throwing stones when they live in glass houses of their own. Why do you think Turkey didn't join in? I do know that Turkey has voiced their concerns with China over the treatment of the Uighur Muslims.
Second, would that have kept China from vetoing any action on a binding resolution over human rights?
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
In all honesty the organization is set up to fail. Tricky, tricky Waveparticle.
You are being tricky without knowing it. Why the 39 countries do not include any Muslim country like Turkey?
I don't know, but it could be as simple as not throwing stones when they live in glass houses of their own. Why do you think Turkey didn't join in? I do know that Turkey has voiced their concerns with China over the treatment of the Uighur Muslims.
Second, would that have kept China from vetoing any action on a binding resolution over human rights?
What China did in Xinjiang is not against the Muslims. It is against extremists. Most Muslims countries know. The western countries under the leadership of US has a long term agenda against China which spanned over one and half century.
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
.... nothing can come of it because all 5 permanent Security Council members
have to agree on a binding resolution. China is one of the five and
already stated they would not be open to discussion as it's "an internal
matter"
In all honesty the organization is set up to fail. Tricky, tricky Waveparticle.
Hardly -- unless you define "fail" as retaining group consensus instead of getting your own way. Even the U.S. congress is set up in a similar way -- where a single senator can block as resolution.
They always have a choice… but they choose political and monetary profit over freedom of speech.
"Free Speech" is an American concept.
Apple has to obey the laws of the country it is operating in -- in this case Russia.
Just as it should not and does not invoke Russian law on Americans it should not and does not invoke American law on Russians.
Yup; that’s a fair statement. But then they need to get off their pulpit about how much they care about human rights and data privacy. Because they don’t. They use them as marketing tools…and it’s duplicitous.
Can you show me where in Apple.com Apple makes such statement about human rights?
The text said Apple will obey international human rights standard set by UN. Therefore, only UN has the authority of forcing Apple.
What are you on about “forcing Apple”? No one is talking about authority or force; Apple have made a public statement about what their values are, and they are failing to live up to them. Therefore they’re being criticised here for their own words.
Quit worming around.
Any group of people can claim this and that. Whether the claim is valid relies on UN to pass a resolution. Until that happen, Apple does not have to be pulled by this or that group. Because any group can make its own interpretation of human rights. But human rights is a very general word. For example, handicapped people have human rights. US local governments have passed many laws giving them many privileges. Many nations do not do so. Can these human rightists demand Apple to do anything in these countries?
In all honesty the organization is set up to fail. Tricky, tricky Waveparticle.
You are being tricky without knowing it. Why the 39 countries do not include any Muslim country like Turkey?
I don't know, but it could be as simple as not throwing stones when they live in glass houses of their own. Why do you think Turkey didn't join in? I do know that Turkey has voiced their concerns with China over the treatment of the Uighur Muslims.
Second, would that have kept China from vetoing any action on a binding resolution over human rights?
What China did in Xinjiang is not against the Muslims. It is against extremists. Most Muslims countries know. The western countries under the leadership of US has a long term agenda against China which spanned over one and half century.
True... Even the Taliban have agreed that China's actions to suppress terrorism is appropriate.
It's funny: we just got done fighting a war against muslim extremism and terrorism where we killed hundreds of thousands of muslims and caused untold amounts of suffering and devastation (we finished it off by murdering an aid worker and 7 children). Yet we try to condemn China for suppressing that same muslim extremism and terrorism in a peaceful way without the death, suffering, devastation -- and dead children.
How did the conversation get diverted onto China? This thread is about Russia. Can we please stop indulging waveparticle's ignorance/trolling/shilling?
The UN and the Security Council are not relevant factors in criticising Apple's policies and actions.
How did the conversation get diverted onto China? This thread is about Russia. Can we please stop indulging waveparticle's ignorance/trolling/shilling?
The UN and the Security Council are not relevant factors in criticising Apple's policies and actions.
+1
A very small number of our members use the tactic to switch from discussing an uncomfortable topic, and perhaps one where they are losing the debate, to one they would prefer.
How did the conversation get diverted onto China? This thread is about Russia. Can we please stop indulging waveparticle's ignorance/trolling/shilling?
The UN and the Security Council are not relevant factors in criticising Apple's policies and actions.
Should we stop indulging yours too?
It's amazing how those who rally around the "free speech mantra" try to suppress it when it doesn't support their agenda.
Comments
Quit worming around.
Also the UN does not routinely do what you say they need to do, comment on an individual company’s actions that follow the law.
In all honesty the organization is set up to fail. Tricky, tricky Waveparticle.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/25/turkey-says-conveyed-sensitivity-about-uighurs-to-china
Second, would that have kept China from vetoing any action on a binding resolution over human rights?
https://new-york-un.diplo.de/un-en/news-corner/201006-heusgen-china/2402648
https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/why-is-turkey-breaking-its-silence-on-chinas-uyghurs/
But why would Turkey now be more muted in its opposition to China's human rights record and treatment threatment of them? All about the money and medicine.
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2021/05/341160/did-china-buy-turkeys-silence-on-the-uyghur-muslims
Note that this link comes from Morocco, a Muslim state.
The UN and the Security Council are not relevant factors in criticising Apple's policies and actions.
A very small number of our members use the tactic to switch from discussing an uncomfortable topic, and perhaps one where they are losing the debate, to one they would prefer.