Android executive offers to help Apple deploy RCS messaging

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,302member
    rcfa said:


    RCS isn’t the solution, because it’s security can’t be trusted.
    I would suggest to you the same that I suggested to another in this thread. Do three minutes of research and bring yourself up-to-date. In at least two ways Google's E2EE RCS is even more private and secure than iMessage. It's not the disjointed mess it was two years ago.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 22 of 40
    When RCS supports messaging across platforms without the need of a carrier phone number or carrier period I'm in.
    We may forget that iMessage/iChat/Facetime all were created to allow those features to devices that were not tethered to a $20/month carrier plan.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,302member
    When RCS supports messaging across platforms without the need of a carrier phone number or carrier period I'm in.
    We may forget that iMessage/iChat/Facetime all were created to allow those features to devices that were not tethered to a $20/month carrier plan.
    FWIW my son (God speed son... love you) could not manage a cellular plan and texted with me over wifi and using Google RCS Chat using an old Android phone IIRC. I think a phone number was only needed for identification and not communication, but I'll try to confirm.
    edited October 8
  • Reply 24 of 40
    RCS doesn’t support encryption (yet). So Google has added their own flavor on top. It doesn’t support encrypted group chats and you have to jump through a bunch of hoops before it’s activated.

    Sound familiar? Just like a Google always does with “standards”, they try to force something they created onto the world. Whether it’s a new video codec, odd features in Chrome (that Google wants site designers to use so users are forced to use Chrome to browse, further locking them in) or their encryption added to RCS.

    Google would love Apple to support RCS using encryption as Google has added. That would certainly lock RCS into using Google’s method of encryption and force another Google create “standard” onto the world.

    Google isn’t doing this for the benefit of users. It’s for their own benefit. Why would Apple do something that benefits Google but offers little to them?
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 40
    gatorguy said:
    rcfa said:


    RCS isn’t the solution, because it’s security can’t be trusted.
    I would suggest to you the same that I suggested to another in this thread. Do three minutes of research and bring yourself up-to-date. In at least two ways Google's E2EE RCS is even more private and secure than iMessage. It's not the disjointed mess it was two years ago.

    Liar.
    williamlondonDogpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,302member
    RCS doesn’t support encryption (yet). So Google has added their own flavor on top. It doesn’t support encrypted group chats and you have to jump through a bunch of hoops before it’s activated.

    Sound familiar? Just like a Google always does with “standards”, they try to force something they created onto the world. Whether it’s a new video codec, odd features in Chrome (that Google wants site designers to use so users are forced to use Chrome to browse, further locking them in) or their encryption added to RCS.

    Google would love Apple to support RCS using encryption as Google has added. That would certainly lock RCS into using Google’s method of encryption and force another Google create “standard” onto the world.

    Google isn’t doing this for the benefit of users. It’s for their own benefit. Why would Apple do something that benefits Google but offers little to them?
    LOL, there was not 'jumping thru hoops, I accepted with a checkbox. As for not supporting E2EE group chat I believe there is a valid, good-for-user-privacy reason for that. Google's timing was fortunate and they could prevent it. Apple was no longer in a position to.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/30/apple-google-and-whatsapp-condemn-gchq-ghost-proposal.html
    edited October 8 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 27 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,302member
    gatorguy said:
    rcfa said:


    RCS isn’t the solution, because it’s security can’t be trusted.
    I would suggest to you the same that I suggested to another in this thread. Do three minutes of research and bring yourself up-to-date. In at least two ways Google's E2EE RCS is even more private and secure than iMessage. It's not the disjointed mess it was two years ago.

    Liar.
    Thanks Eric. That's how you always signal you lost a debate with me. Some things just don't change.
    edited October 8 avon b7muthuk_vanalingamctt_zh
  • Reply 28 of 40
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,642member
    rcfa said:
    It’s time Apple opened up iMessage/FaceTime to be cross platform.

    The only reason I have to keep using crap like Instagram, WhatsApp, Viber, SMS, etc. is because like it or not, a majority of people don’t have Apple devices and because some owners of Apple devices don’t use iMessage “because it costs money” (meaning they haven’t understood the difference between iMessages and SMS/MMS.

    In other words the superior Apple user experience goes down the drain due to suboptimal Apple customer communication and the network effects inherent in telco standards.

    RCS isn’t the solution, because it’s security can’t be trusted.

    Charge iKnockoff users $1/month. Nothing free or good for them. This will help pay for the FaceTime licensing crap.
  • Reply 29 of 40
    RCS is carrier driven, just like SMS and MMS, which it is trying to replace. So far in the USA our carriers have not figured out who is going to maintain and pay for the cross-carrier databases required for cross-carrier implementation and most importantly encryption. 

    Apple would be crazy to even think about allowing an RCS option until all of the cross-carrier issues are resolved here in the USA and the rest of the world. Google has already stopped back from being the host of its RCS like chat services, and is putting the onus back on the carriers where Voice, SMS, and MMS already reside. Samsung has also stepped back. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 40
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,498member
    Interestingly, iMessage was introduced almost exactly 10 years ago (Oct 12, 2011), and it has taken 10 years for an equivalent messaging on Android to arrive, fully formed, and with the carriers having finally capitulated on control of SMS.

    But at what point does it matter if Apple adopts or not? There's certainly no barrier to Google or the Carriers promoting the hell out of RCS, and "selling" it to the Android user. 

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 40
    mike1mike1 Posts: 2,808member
    citpeks said:
    jamesnay said:
    There’s enough negative tribalism going on in the world… if adopting RCS helps eliminate the us vs them mentality I’m all for it!

    I've never understood the supposed stigma surrounding the blue/green bubble thing.  But I guess, as with a lot of things, people have to find stupid things to occupy their head with.



    Add a "greenie" to a group message chain and you lose all advanced functionality, and for me, it makes it very difficult to send pics with MMS when I'm on my home WiFi. Been trying to resolve that issue for years.

    I am skeptical as to whether this supposed standard would improve that across all the various Android phones and OS versions.
    edited October 8 pscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,302member
    DangDave said:
    RCS is carrier driven, just like SMS and MMS, which it is trying to replace. So far in the USA our carriers have not figured out who is going to maintain and pay for the cross-carrier databases required for cross-carrier implementation and most importantly encryption. 

    Apple would be crazy to even think about allowing an RCS option until all of the cross-carrier issues are resolved here in the USA and the rest of the world. Google has already stopped back from being the host of its RCS like chat services, and is putting the onus back on the carriers where Voice, SMS, and MMS already reside. Samsung has also stepped back. 
    I don't think you're accurate, things change, and the carriers are no longer essential with Google going around them two years ago. With the writing on the wall announcing who is really in charge the carriers have rolled over now too, Verizon being the last of the US big three, and will be preinstalling Google RCS in handsets they sell. Read this:
    https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-is-rcs-messaging/
    https://www.droid-life.com/2021/07/20/verizon-joins-att-t-mobile-in-switching-to-google-messages-and-rcs/



    edited October 8
  • Reply 33 of 40
    Here is the current link to AT&T Advanced Messaging using RCS Universal Protocol 1.0. If you look into the details you will see that for them it only works between AT&T Postpaid users with devices that support and have enabled the RCS Universal Protocol 1.0

    https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1062086

    It looks like we are going to have to use WhatsApp or other services for years to come for cross platform messaging and chat. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 40
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,399member
    gatorguy said:
    DangDave said:
    RCS is carrier driven, just like SMS and MMS, which it is trying to replace. So far in the USA our carriers have not figured out who is going to maintain and pay for the cross-carrier databases required for cross-carrier implementation and most importantly encryption. 

    Apple would be crazy to even think about allowing an RCS option until all of the cross-carrier issues are resolved here in the USA and the rest of the world. Google has already stopped back from being the host of its RCS like chat services, and is putting the onus back on the carriers where Voice, SMS, and MMS already reside. Samsung has also stepped back. 
    I don't think you're accurate, things change, and the carriers are no longer essential with Google going around them two years ago. With the writing on the wall announcing who is really in charge the carriers have rolled over now too, Verizon being the last of the US big three, and will be preinstalling Google RCS in handsets they sell. Read this:
    https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-is-rcs-messaging/
    https://www.droid-life.com/2021/07/20/verizon-joins-att-t-mobile-in-switching-to-google-messages-and-rcs/
    The discussion thread at the end of the article in that last link pretty much sums up the arrogance of the tech enthusiasts who promote Android: WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE WANT TO SPEND THEIR LIFE LEARNING HOW TO CUSTOMIZE THEIR PHONE?

    Question to them, why don't they want to spend their time learning to cook great food?  Or doing their own car maintenance?  Or how to diagnose heath conditions?  Or how to raise children?  There are infinite things one can spend their time learning about in life.  Why does everyone need to choose technology?  Why can't things 'just work'?

    Right now, RCS doesn't 'just work' for a lot of people.  And expecting them to spend the kind of time tech enthusiasts do learning how to make it work (even berating them) is a sign of immaturity and the inability to accept different priorities in life.

    edited October 8 williamlondonpscooter63DetnatorFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 40
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,831member
     Google brokered deals with major U.S. carriers T-Mobile, AT&T and, most recently, Verizon, to preinstall the Messages by Google app on all Android devices sold on their respective networks.” this is why RCS has failed before it started, Google never wrestled device control away from the carriers like Apple did. They shouldn’t have to ask permission to adopt any standards on their OS.
    If a ‘real RCS’ ever gets defined, I’m sure Apple would be happy to ad purple bubbles to iMessage.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,302member
    mcdave said:
    “ Google brokered deals with major U.S. carriers T-Mobile, AT&T and, most recently, Verizon, to preinstall the Messages by Google app on all Android devices sold on their respective networks.” this is why RCS has failed before it started, Google never wrestled device control away from the carriers like Apple did. They shouldn’t have to ask permission to adopt any standards on their OS.
    If a ‘real RCS’ ever gets defined, I’m sure Apple would be happy to ad purple bubbles to iMessage.
    Google already did an end-around and bypassed the carriers to offer it directly via app. Made no difference if the mobile providers liked it or not which is probably what led to ATT et al realizing they were chasing a losing proposition trying to take it for themselves. With the carriers now agreeing to enable it directly the app will become less necessary. 
    edited October 8
  • Reply 37 of 40
    From the wikipedia article about RCS it looks it will be the new standard and that Apple should support it.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 38 of 40
    danoxdanox Posts: 679member
    When RCS supports messaging across platforms without the need of a carrier phone number or carrier period I'm in.
    We may forget that iMessage/iChat/Facetime all were created to allow those features to devices that were not tethered to a $20/month carrier plan.
    Apple created their suite of programs for the usual reasons, the greater marketplace wasn’t building anything for Mac and iPhone users.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 40
    Isn’t one HUGE difference between iMessage and SMS, or RCS, that iMessage communications are end-to-end encrypted, between iOS/MacOS devices, where the carrier is only involved in providing Data Transport?  Whereas SMS, or RCS, is a messaging system that involves mobile carriers.  I would be concerned that the carriers can build backdoors into their RCS deployments, so your ‘encrypted’ communications would still be vulnerable to interception and decryption.  To my knowledge, iMessage doesn’t have that potential vulnerability.
    edited October 10 watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,302member
    rbnetengr said:
    Isn’t one HUGE difference between iMessage and SMS, or RCS, that iMessage communications are end-to-end encrypted, between iOS/MacOS devices, where the carrier is only involved in providing Data Transport?  Whereas SMS, or RCS, is a messaging system that involves mobile carriers.  I would be concerned that the carriers can build backdoors into their RCS deployments, so your ‘encrypted’ communications would still be vulnerable to interception and decryption.  To my knowledge, iMessage doesn’t have that potential vulnerability.
    Google RCS is the same, E2EE. 

    At no time would you as an iMessage user texting with another iMessage user be doing so via RCS. Incorporating it would serve to secure cross platform messages. If an Android user sends you a text it will be done just as securely and privately as using iMessage. As it is whenever the two platforms communicate with each other now it's over insecure SMS. 

    There's no reason for Apple not to swap to RCS from SMS other than ecosystem stickiness. Zero doubt it will improve both privacy and security for everyone if they would do so.
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